Do you agree to this 'voluntary contribution' the schools ask for?

Andy From Sligo · 29-08-2018 11:29pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

It was far from voluntrary. I had to pay it when enrolling my son.

did they call it a voluntary contribution? - if they did .. then its just that .

here is the terminology you can show them if they got snotty because you would not pay :

voluntary
ˈvɒlənt(ə)ri/Submit
adjective
1.
done, given, or acting of one's own free will.
"we are funded by voluntary contributions"
synonyms: optional, discretionary, at one's discretion, elective, non-compulsory, non-mandatory, not required, open, open to choice, volitional, up to the individual; More
2.
working, done, or maintained without payment.
"a voluntary helper"
synonyms: unpaid, unsalaried, without pay, without payment, free of charge, without charge, for nothing, for free; More

Andy From Sligo · 29-08-2018 11:33pm

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Do all the teaching staff generally know who pays and who doesn't? I thought it might only be the principal and the admin staff.

it might be better if the information was kept to the bare minimum who knows and doesnt know this information of who pays and who doesn't - not saying class teachers might have a prejudice against pupils who's parents haven paid and used this against the particular pupils ... but you never know

Andy From Sligo · 29-08-2018 11:42pm

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Yes I think that's what's needed really.
I teach too, and not only do I pay to help people raise their kids with my taxes like any other tax payer, I also buy dozens of folders, pollypockets, copies, pens, markers, poster supplies, and even exam papers out of my own pocket.

You want to spot the teachers, spending their own money to educate your children ? Just go to Mr Price and hang around the stationary section for a bit.

are we living in a first world progressive modern country here or some third word one - why are you buying these requirements out of your own pocket? - something is broke with finances somewhere and it needs fixing, not saying I dont comment you and others that are digging into your own pockets and buying extra stuff to do your days work but its still wrong at the end of the day and you shouldnt have to ... but then again I am not saying it should be fixed with 'voluntary' contributions or raising the voluntary contributions either - there has to be other more suitable ways by making the money supplied by the government stretch more, or get increased money from the government

Mountainsandh · 30-08-2018 12:10am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

are we living in a first world progressive modern country here or some third word one - why are you buying these requirements out of your own pocket? - something is broke with finances somewhere and it needs fixing, not saying I dont comment you and others that are digging into your own pockets and buying extra stuff to do your days work but its still wrong at the end of the day and you shouldnt have to ... but then again I am not saying it should be fixed with 'voluntary' contributions or raising the voluntary contributions either - there has to be other more suitable ways by making the money supplied by the government stretch more, or get increased money from the government

I agree.
I don't think you can make the money stretch more tbh, in our school suppliers are screened and nominated/tendered by the employer ; as a result prices paid are inflated. Do you know what I actually did in the past, peed off at getting substandard equipment that cost the school an arm and a leg, and was never replaced when it went wonky ? I went off and got my own (cd/tape player as it happens) for a reasonable price, stuck my own name on it and used that.
Otherwise you are left with equipment that you can't rely on, and that will not be replaced on time.
I have my own stash of "stuff" now, and at least it's mine, and only gets used by myself, so I know it works and I can choose the exact model I need.

It's really a case of getting the DES to fork out more, end of story.
But unless and until there is serious motivation on all sides (parents and schools) to put pressure on the DES to just... pay for this supposedly "free" education, then I see no positive outcome of with-holding payment.
Other countries pay teachers' wages too, and manage to provide genuine free ed. It's a question of priorities.

edit : "why are you buying these requirements out of your own pocket?"
That's easy, I want the kids to do well. Some parents won't or can't get the stuff, and there is no budget for it.

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 12:24am

well as long as these people are paying these contributions and teachers are buying supplies out of their own finances there is being no pressure put on the DES - and as long as they are not getting pressure put onto them to change things they will just be happy to carry on and let it happen .

we the general public can raise it with the politicians when they come looking for their votes next and teachers and teachers unions can push the DES for change too - its the only way things might change

Calhoun · 30-08-2018 4:40am

No I don't agree with it and let's face it the way in which some schools go about it amounts to pressuring the kids which is not on.

Minderbinder · 30-08-2018 5:14am

Usually when a school is asking for a contribution the smartest thing you can do is give a reasonable amount. If you think those who didn’t donate won’t be known to all faculty or your kids school life won’t be affected then I think you’d be mistaken.

Contribute well in the first year at a new school and your kid can go into a good class with the best teachers.

bigpink · 30-08-2018 5:14am

I’d say a lot of it goes missing

freshpopcorn · 30-08-2018 5:33am

bigpink wrote: »

I’d say a lot of it goes missing

Something has to supply the staff room with Cocaine and Champagne!

OldMrBrennan83 · 30-08-2018 5:39am

Out of principle I wouldn't pay it while they insist on calling it voluntary when it isn't. Call it what it is.

bigpink · 30-08-2018 5:42am

Don’t doubt schools need money but I’d say a lot goes missing there is no accountability of cash being given to a school
Hopefully online payments stop this

spurious · 30-08-2018 6:18am

bigpink wrote:

Iâ€™d say a lot of it goes missing

Of course.Nothing like a wild unfounded allegation against teachers. Go ahead, I'm sure you have more.

freshpopcorn · 30-08-2018 6:28am

bigpink wrote: »

Don’t doubt schools need money but I’d say a lot goes missing there is no accountability of cash being given to a school
Hopefully online payments stop this

When I went to school a lot paid by cheque. School nearly wanted it that way.

Minderbinder · 30-08-2018 6:28am

spurious wrote: »

bigpink wrote:

Iâ€™d say a lot of it goes missing

Of course.Nothing like a wild unfounded allegation against teachers. Go ahead, I'm sure you have more.

Why is it an allegation against teachers?

I would have thought this kind of donation goes from parents to school administrators. It’s hardly going directly into the hands of teachers is it?

freshpopcorn · 30-08-2018 6:31am

Minderbinder wrote: »

.

Contribute well in the first year at a new school and your kid can go into a good class with the best teachers.

I know locally you bring in your contribution on the first few days of school. So, you'd be given your classes/teachers before they'd know who paid/didn't pay.

Wanderer78 · 30-08-2018 6:31am

austerity rocks!

Minderbinder · 30-08-2018 6:36am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote: »

.

Contribute well in the first year at a new school and your kid can go into a good class with the best teachers.

I know locally you bring in your contribution on the first few days of school. So, you'd be given your classes/teachers before they'd know who paid/didn't pay.

Well then you’re too late aren’t you

Graces7 · 30-08-2018 6:49am

Excuse the expression but all this is an education to me. I was in Mr Price this last week and many kids with parents feverishly working through a long list of stationery requirements.

I have no idea if this still applies, but in the UK we got all our books and stationery provided free.

Mountainsandh · 30-08-2018 6:54am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Something has to supply the staff room with Cocaine and Champagne!

and hookers or ... male escorts !

Christmas do strippers too.

Wanderer78 · 30-08-2018 6:58am

Graces7 wrote:

I have no idea if this still applies, but in the UK we got all our books and stationery provided free.

I'd have to disagree, these items were not provided for free, you paid for them via taxation, but these were heavily subsidised, but apparently the approach we have now is better for us

Mountainsandh · 30-08-2018 7:04am

Graces7 wrote: »

Excuse the expression but all this is an education to me. I was in Mr Price this last week and many kids with parents feverishly working through a long list of stationery requirements.

I have no idea if this still applies, but in the UK we got all our books and stationery provided free.

In my son's school there is a book rental scheme, so once you have paid that, you don't have to buy the books, but you do have to buy stationary.
It's when things pop up that are needed during the year that teachers tend to supply, because the parents have done their bit at the start of the year, so if there is a need for something around Christmas time, or towards the end of the school year when revisions are approaching, they would be reluctant or might not be able to afford it.

Teachers are constantly being trained in using new methodologies as well, and these are often resource intensive : you might need lollipop sticks, folders, coloured paper, markers, glue, etc... etc... Of course some will be available through the school, but it's often faster and safer to get your own, that way it doesn't get swiped by someone else before the day you need it.

Graces7 · 30-08-2018 7:17am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I'd have to disagree, these items were not provided for free, you paid for them via taxation, but these were heavily subsidised, but apparently the approach we have now is better for us

:rolleyes:

Graces7 · 30-08-2018 7:20am

Mountainsandh wrote: »

In my son's school there is a book rental scheme, so once you have paid that, you don't have to buy the books, but you do have to buy stationary.
It's when things pop up that are needed during the year that teachers tend to supply, because the parents have done their bit at the start of the year, so if there is a need for something around Christmas time, or towards the end of the school year when revisions are approaching, they would be reluctant or might not be able to afford it.

Teachers are constantly being trained in using new methodologies as well, and these are often resource intensive : you might need lollipop sticks, folders, coloured paper, markers, glue, etc... etc... Of course some will be available through the school, but it's often faster and safer to get your own, that way it doesn't get swiped by someone else before the day you need it.

I did supply work ( in the UK) at a school for disabled children and the craft stores were awesome.

But a whole different approach there along with the NHS.

Peatys · 30-08-2018 7:21am

I never really thought about it. They wouldn't be looking for it if they didn't need it i suppose.

Wanderer78 · 30-08-2018 7:36am

Apologies grace7, that was a poor attempt at sarcasm

screamer · 30-08-2018 8:16am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

screamer wrote: »

My biggest problem with back to school costs are the exhorbitant price of books, a monopoly of a few companies hammering us with stupid prices for books that can't even be passed on because next year teacher will want different books..... There should be no need for this, teachers should be able to write books for the dept of education that can then be printed en masse for much more reasonable prices. Same books and curriculum throughout the country and do away with the BS of a back breaking booklist a mile long

:D:D:D
Teachers DO write the texts in many cases, but the DES won't pay.

Course they do....they write them for the greedy book publishers.... (For a nice fee I'd bet). What I am saying is that these books should be written for and published by the education department and done at a more nominal cost. With every child in every year having the same books the price would dramatically decrease.

Sleepy · 30-08-2018 9:31am

Have never paid it and never will tbh. As others have said, if the Dept of Education isn't properly funded through general taxation, then that's a matter for the Minster for Finance to sort out, not the parents.

I also have a huge problem with the access the Catholic Church are given to children through our current set up. Religion has no place in Education, blind faith is, imo, the exact antithesis of meaningful education and a society's tolerance for religion shouldn't extend to wasting our children's time teaching them about the nonsesnse the various faiths believe in.

Avatar MIA · 30-08-2018 10:10am

Sleepy wrote: »

I also have a huge problem with the access the Catholic Church are given to children through our current set up. Religion has no place in Education, blind faith is, imo, the exact antithesis of meaningful education and a society's tolerance for religion shouldn't extend to wasting our children's time teaching them about the nonsesnse the various faiths believe in.

If only we had threads to discuss this already

Neyite · 30-08-2018 10:41am

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Nurses don't buy syringes, Gardai dont put diesel in the patrol cars etc so why is it OK for teachers to buy resources? It's not but many teachers have a sense of care and duty to deliver lessons above and beyond for the benefit of their pupils.

Never thought of it this way before - you are absolutely right.

wrote:

Swimming lessons are on the primary curriculum (Aquatics), teachers can't teach kids to swim in puddles in the yard so additional money is needed to facilitate that. A familarization of facts was needed here I feel.

I dunno. Have you seen the potholes out our way?

AndrewJRenko · 30-08-2018 10:47am

screamer wrote: »

Course they do....they write them for the greedy book publishers.... (For a nice fee I'd bet). What I am saying is that these books should be written for and published by the education department and done at a more nominal cost. With every child in every year having the same books the price would dramatically decrease.

There is a problem here in that those who make decisions about choosing books are not the ones paying the bill at the end of the day. Teachers need to pay more attention to cost, and indeed weight of books when making those choices.

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why is it an allegation against teachers?

I would have thought this kind of donation goes from parents to school administrators. It’s hardly going directly into the hands of teachers is it?

So just to be clear, you're convinced that a lot of school secretaries are ripping off the cash for their own benefit, and principals, boards and parents just haven't noticed?

harr · 30-08-2018 11:04am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is a problem here in that those who make decisions about choosing books are not the ones paying the bill at the end of the day. Teachers need to pay more attention to cost, and indeed weight of books when making those choices.

So just to be clear, you're convinced that a lot of school secretaries are ripping off the cash for their own benefit, and principals, boards and parents just haven't noticed?

And this is why a lot schools now are going down the online payment route, first it stops any body having to handle hundreds of envelopes full of cash which is just to much of a temptation for some, second it stops any embarrassment for those who might not have the cash on first day of term.
It happened in my child’s first school where a number of parents received a reminder to pay the fees even though they had paid already, they never found out where those 5 or 6 envelopes ended up. Since then I will always ask for a receipt.

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 11:45am

harr wrote: »

.... Since then I will always ask for a receipt.

Can see why you do, but isn't it strange that people feel they have to ask for a receipt for a 'voluntary payment'

I suppose in the past , teachers have been viewed as one of the most decent upstanding pillars of society and wouldn't dream of absconding it and using it for any other purpose than its intended purpose saying "thank you for your contribution, I will look after that envelope of 250euro and make sure it goes to the correct place"

Hotblack Desiato · 30-08-2018 1:40pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is a problem here in that those who make decisions about choosing books are not the ones paying the bill at the end of the day.

Too right, and it's exactly the same with uniforms.

Some principals have their head stuck firmly up their rear end.

Hotblack Desiato · 30-08-2018 1:43pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

In secondary school we had a crested jumper and it did look neater everybody wearing the same jumper to be fair.

Ve must crush individuality! CRUSH!!!

I think uniforms and single-sex schooling are both completely mental.

Minderbinder · 30-08-2018 1:48pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

screamer wrote: »

Course they do....they write them for the greedy book publishers.... (For a nice fee I'd bet). What I am saying is that these books should be written for and published by the education department and done at a more nominal cost. With every child in every year having the same books the price would dramatically decrease.

There is a problem here in that those who make decisions about choosing books are not the ones paying the bill at the end of the day. Teachers need to pay more attention to cost, and indeed weight of books when making those choices.

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why is it an allegation against teachers?

I would have thought this kind of donation goes from parents to school administrators. It’s hardly going directly into the hands of teachers is it?

So just to be clear, you're convinced that a lot of school secretaries are ripping off the cash for their own benefit, and principals, boards and parents just haven't noticed?

Nope, I didn’t accuse anyone of anything.

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 1:50pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ve must crush individuality! CRUSH!!!

I think uniforms and single-sex schooling are both completely mental.

smart uniforms i think a necessity - following the schools colours , but hey if they bloody come from penneys or dunnes what is the harm like!

I have never got same sex schools .. especially in this modern day society - what is it so the pupils focus on the school subjects rather than the opposite sex is it?

- is that what they exist for?

freshpopcorn · 30-08-2018 1:51pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ve must crush individuality! CRUSH!!!

I think uniforms and single-sex schooling are both completely mental.

When I was in senior and junior infants we had no uniform and were in mixed classes.
Having a uniform made things a lot easier.
Mixed classes I wasn't bothered.
In secondary lots of the classes in 5th and 6th year used be mixed. I was mixed on it to be honest. It was fine nothing to write home about.

freshpopcorn · 30-08-2018 1:54pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

smart uniforms i think a necessity - following the schools colours , but hey if they bloody come from penneys or dunnes what is the harm like!

What would you do if you introduced a school uniform with a plain black jumper.
Then kids started showing up in every type of black jumper with weird logos(which may not all match) and then the kids who'd want designer jumpers and laugh at the kids in own brand jumpers.

Avatar MIA · 30-08-2018 1:55pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I was mixed on it to be honest. It was fine nothing to write home about.

Off topic, but you know when people mention school being the best years of your life, they're referring to mixed schools

Minderbinder · 30-08-2018 1:58pm

I think uniforms are important for the security of the school and safety of everyone inside.

Macy0161 · 30-08-2018 1:59pm

Momento Mori wrote: »

Should be mandatory or nothing.

No voluntary contribution in the children's school. Mandatory "Arts and Crafts", and "Photocopying" charges.

I've texted this in to various radio discussions, and the principals organisations see this as justifiable, even though the threat is the child sits out/ doesn't get the work if they aren't paid.

meeeeh · 30-08-2018 2:03pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Ve must crush individuality! CRUSH!!!

I think uniforms and single-sex schooling are both completely mental.

I agree on single sex schools. I'm in two minds about uniforms, they are ugly, they are not flattering but they don't create competition among kids. I never needed to wear uniforms and I was always well dressed but I know it was noticed who wasn't. I also remember two of the kids in our school competing who will buy more expensive hoodie. They (their parents) bought the same one but one intentionally went to the shop where it was more expensive. I don't think the two morons were representative of all kids but individuality often means more financial pressure on parents and poorer kids stand out more.

Avatar MIA · 30-08-2018 2:04pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

I've texted this in to various radio discussions, and the principals organisations see this as justifiable, even though the threat is the child sits out/ doesn't get the work if they aren't paid.

I blame the parents more than the schools.

If the school's funding goes on heating and maintenance should the school not provide arts and crafts and photocopying (which probably saves on school book costs), should all students miss out?

Or, as some here seem to think, should some parents pay for other kids as well?

The, 'oh, the government should pay for it' brigade, are only using that as an excuse, knowing damn well the government wont do it.

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 2:05pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What would you do if you introduced a school uniform with a plain black jumper.
Then kids started showing up in every type of black jumper with weird logos(which may not all match) and then the kids who'd want designer jumpers and laugh at the kids in own brand jumpers.

when i was growing up in high school (it would be called secondary school here) kids had to have a maroon jumper in my school .. you could buy that jumper from loads of different shops even shops equivalent to dunnes and penneys (we didnt have dunnes , I think it was St. Michael jumpers at M&S - and there was no store such as primark back then) - I think my mum bought the maroon jumpers from our Tesco's in the shopping centre there, upstairs they had clothes - then the school supplied the crests and I am pretty sure they must have been iron on crests because I remember my mum ironing on my crest on my school jumper. But they could be stitched/sewn on too. so you shopped around for your maroon jumper from wherever you wanted (posh people went to M&S and debenhams and poor people went to Tesco or other places) and stitch or sew on your school crest/logo onto the jumper - it seemed to work at the time .

freshpopcorn · 30-08-2018 2:12pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

when i was growing up in high school (it would be called secondary school here) kids had to have a maroon jumper in my school .. you could buy that jumper from loads of different shops even shops equivalent to dunnes and penneys (we didnt have dunnes , I think it was St. Michael jumpers at M&S - and there was no store such as primark back then) - I think my mum bought the maroon jumpers from our Tesco's in the shopping centre there, upstairs they had clothes - then the school supplied the crests and I am pretty sure they must have been iron on crests because I remember my mum ironing on my crest on my school jumper. But they could be stitched/sewn on too. so you shopped around for your maroon jumper from wherever you wanted (posh people went to M&S and debenhams and poor people went to Tesco or other places) and stitch or sew on your school crest/logo onto the jumper - it seemed to work at the time .

Thanks, I was just referring to when I was in school.
There used be a lot of hassle regarding coats/hoodies at school between them going missing and people competing with one another and having several ones on the go.
So, the school introduced a half zip a few years after I left. I think it would have saved a lot of hassle when I was there.

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 2:13pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What would you do if you introduced a school uniform with a plain black jumper.
Then kids started showing up in every type of black jumper with weird logos(which may not all match) and then the kids who'd want designer jumpers and laugh at the kids in own brand jumpers.

you wouldnt dare come to my high school with a weird logo or not the correct crest on your jumper , we had a bítch of a headmistress that every kid was frightened of and if you did you would most probably get suspended , or detention ... or whipped!

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 2:15pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Off topic, but you know when people mention school being the best years of your life, they're referring to mixed schools

i'll show you mine if you show me yours, kiss chase .....

Avatar MIA · 30-08-2018 2:17pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

i'll show you mine if you show me yours, kiss chase .....

Was thinking more secondary school

Macy0161 · 30-08-2018 2:21pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

If the school's funding goes on heating and maintenance should the school not provide arts and crafts and photocopying (which probably saves on school book costs), should all students miss out?

Or, as some here seem to think, should some parents pay for other kids as well?

The, 'oh, the government should pay for it' brigade, are only using that as an excuse, knowing damn well the government wont do it.

There doesn't seem to be any reduction in the "book list", which also includes a significant amount of what I would consider arts and crafts anyway, with the glues, tapes, colouring equipment that is on it.

We both work full time, pay our mortgage and taxes, and I personally hate the entitlement culture. It'd do more for parents to put money for more early childcare places, "granny grants" etc into truly free primary and secondary education.

Andy From Sligo · 30-08-2018 2:24pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

......The, 'oh, the government should pay for it' brigade, are only using that as an excuse, knowing damn well the government wont do it.

you'd be surprised then what the right amount of pressure and threat of 'not getting in next time' can play a part in changing governments minds and the way they do things

Do you agree to this 'voluntary contribution' the schools ask for?

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