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Do you agree to this 'voluntary contribution' the schools ask for?

  • 29-08-2018 2:08pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,670 ✭✭✭✭ Andy From Sligo


    My children are all grown up now but i remember this 'voluntary contribution' their schools were looking for around about this time when they went back to school after their summer holidays. - do you agree with it?


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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,348 CMod ✭✭✭✭ coffee_cake


    Do they give a breakdown of what it's for?
    From what i hear it's threatening and bullying if you don't pay


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭ evolving_doors


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Do they give a breakdown of what it's for?
    From what i hear it's threatening and bullying if you don't pay

    Depends on the school in fairness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭✭ Momento Mori


    Should be mandatory or nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,610 ✭✭✭ jay0109


    €250 in the school mine go to in Sth Dub. It's capped at that so it's the same per family if you have 1 or 4 in the school.
    Not aware of any breakdown been given but they don't chase too hard for it. I didn't remember to give it over the last academic year until Jan


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭ stoneill


    I'm 50/50 - I do sort of agree as it keeps the school running as central funding doesn't meet the expense of keeping a school going.
    I don't agree that my contributions are benefiting kids who parents didn't contribute.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,366 ✭✭✭ 17-pdr


    stoneill wrote: »
    I'm 50/50 - I do sort of agree as it keeps the school running as central funding doesn't meet the expense of keeping a school going.
    I don't agree that my contributions are benefiting kids who parents didn't contribute.

    And that's the reason one shouldn't be making 'voluntary' contributions in the first place. It lets the government off the hook of providing adequate central funding for schools. Similar with gullible parents 'fundraising' for their local national school outside Tesco, Dunnes etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,892 ✭✭✭✭ freshpopcorn


    From speaking to teachers/people involved in the management of schools the money is generally needed.
    It isn't spent on tea and biscuits for the staff room.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 Avatar MIA


    Happy to pay to the school my kids go to. One of the best schools in the country far out performing compared to many fee paying schools. I'd be pretty sure most if not all parents pay.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭ judeboy101


    What ppl fail to realise is that non-etb schools have a 30% deficit in funding built in. So that's over 90% of primary schools and 60% of secondary schools. The money has to come from somewhere.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,443 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Amirani


    Would like to see a breakdown of where it goes.

    The State should absolutely be funding the amounts needed to adequately teach the curriculum in an appropriate environment; parental contributions should not be required for this. In terms of additional extras in schools, then the contribution model is probably reasonable. Local property tax as a funding source is another option that they use in the US.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭ lmimmfn


    Should at least have the possibility of claiming back the tax on it as is possible with charity donations. Kinda pointless earning 200 euro, paying 100euro tax on that then giving the remaining 100 to a school when you're funding what the government should be finding in the first place.
    I've no problem paying the school, just have a problem that I paid tax on that too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,146 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Have not paid it and will not pay it. Not one cent.
    Education is funded from the substantial (approx 30-35%) of my gross income, if more funding is needed then they need to better manage the funding they are given or apply for more. I'm not being double dipped.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭ Hector Bellend


    Proper education should be viewed as a long term investment.

    I would gladly pay higher taxes if I thought it would invested in areas like this


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,842 ✭✭✭✭ Grayson


    From speaking to teachers/people involved in the management of schools the money is generally needed.
    It isn't spent on tea and biscuits for the staff room.

    50 grand of hobnobs though......


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭ tabby aspreme


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    What ppl fail to realise is that non-etb schools have a 30% deficit in funding built in. So that's over 90% of primary schools and 60% of secondary schools. The money has to come from somewhere.

    Can you elaborate a bit more on the 30% built in deficit


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 Avatar MIA


    lmimmfn wrote: »
    Should at least have the possibility of claiming back the tax on it as is possible with charity donations. Kinda pointless earning 200 euro, paying 100euro tax on that then giving the remaining 100 to a school when you're funding what the government should be finding in the first place.
    I've no problem paying the school, just have a problem that I paid tax on that too.

    The schools get the tax benefit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,496 ✭✭✭✭ errlloyd


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Have not paid it and will not pay it. Not one cent.
    Education is funded from the substantial (approx 30-35%) of my gross income, if more funding is needed then they need to better manage the funding they are given or apply for more. I'm not being double dipped.

    Sorry what?

    Education is about 1/7th of public expenditure, and if you're very wealthy, tax is about 48 percent of your gross income. So education is about 7 percent of your gross. And if you're wealthy enough to be paying that level of tax you can afford an extra 250 per year.

    Im not a parent, but I'm uncomfortable with it becuase I really believe all schools should get the same funding. Schools in middle class areas definitely get more voluntary contributions than schools in working class areas, ans at the end of the day, your postcode shouldnt decide your educational status.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,146 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Sorry what?

    Education is about 1/7th of public expenditure, and if you're very wealthy, tax is about 48 percent of your gross income. So education is about 7 percent of your gross. And if you're wealthy enough to be paying that level of tax you can afford an extra 250 per year.

    Im not a parent, but I'm uncomfortable with it becuase I really believe all schools should get the same funding. Schools in middle class areas definitely get more voluntary contributions than schools in working class areas, ans at the end of the day, your postcode shouldnt decide your educational status.


    total Tax (PAYE/USC/PRSI) was 34 odd percent in my last payslip. I wasn't speaking about how much of my wages go to education, I was speaking about how much goes to the central pot, from which education is funded
    I do not believe in double dipping and will not pay a "voluntary" contribution which is intended as not voluntary. Education is supposed to be free for primary and secondary education. Tertiary is not free already due to the large fees.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ mariaalice


    Meanwhile, in the UK it is actually is free education along with subsidised meals and free meals if the parents are poor.

    There needs to be a lot more transparency if some schools don't have voluntary contributions how are they managing, how come it is different in every school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,892 ✭✭✭✭ freshpopcorn


    If you ask teachers/BOM people about this. You'd be amazed at the people who pay and don't pay. Not that they mention names.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 Avatar MIA


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Meanwhile, in the UK it is actually is free education along with subsidised meals and free meals if the parents are poor.

    There needs to be a lot more transparency if some schools don't have voluntary contributions how are they managing, how come it is different in every school.

    In Primary, Deish school kids (some at least) get breakfast and lunch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ mariaalice


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    In Primary, Deish school kids (some at least) get breakfast and lunch.

    That is not the same as the universal provision there is in the UK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭ meeeeh


    The contribution in our school is not too bad and as far as I know they are not overly aggressive collecting it. It doesn't cover swimming and school trips, those are extra and for those parents are reminded to pay by text.

    I'm a bit ambivalent about it, primary school is a lot cheaper than childcare and school is well run. I think it's probably biggest surprise to families with stay at home parents. The rest are probably relieved they are not paying another mortgage on creche fees. Mine are both in school now but I actually think subsidies to pre school childcare are much more needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,508 ✭✭✭✭ eviltwin


    I pay 120 a year for my son's primary school. 50 of that is books, another 50 for photocopying, art and PE supplies and 10 for insurance. The final tenner is for administration. That's the only payment I have all year apart from optional after school activities. I find it very reasonable and the school will take it in instalments if needed and will work with people in genuine difficulty.

    Unfortunately the state doesn't cover these things so parents have to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭ Ger Roe


    I object to the requirement for 'voluntary contributions'. Parents should not let the government off the hook by plugging a funding gap that they know exists in the system. Likewise with parents volunteering for school management activities like yard duties - if it is a necessary requirement, then there is a job there that should be advertised and paid for.

    A primary school I had involvement with often had fundraise activities organised to help with general building maintenance, specifically roof repairs. Why should parents be asked to bring inadequate and unsuitable buildings up to operational standards? I would prefer if the boards of managements simply closed the schools when they ran out of funds, or when serious repairs are required. The authorities would soon have to admit their failings and take appropriate actions.

    The minister for education announced the biggest new school building programme in the history of the state earlier this year, most with delivery dates that can not possibly be met and safe in the knowledge that this government doesn't have a life span beyond november if the supply and confidence agreement with FF can not be extended. In the meantime a previously existing waiting list of current school buildings needing investment to bring them up to an acceptable standard, was ignored. A new schools announcement is a better press release than an admission that many existing schools urgently require substantial investment to renovate their buildings.

    Parents partially funding or providing their time and services to schools hides bigger problems with the system and in the end leads to educational facilities inequality where those who can pay ... have, and those who can't ... have not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭ lmimmfn


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    The schools get the tax benefit.
    Not really, as most of it will go on healthcare or pensions, my point is if I'm being asked to prop up the finances of a school then why do I have to prop up everything else school included before I give them the school the actual cash.

    Even if the schools do benefit from my tax payment before I give money to the school i can't select the school that gets it. In which case i shouldn't pay the school but I don't agree with that. Most schools are underfunded, if the government wants us to find them then stop taking half of the money beforehand


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭ dr.fuzzenstein


    Sorry, no extra money for schools, it's all being used to provide "free" water, so there is none left for "free" education.
    Or should it be taken from "free" healthcare?
    You can't have Swedish public services with Irish taxation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,146 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Sorry, no extra money for schools, it's all being used to provide "free" water, so there is none left for "free" education.
    Or should it be taken from "free" healthcare?
    You can't have Swedish public services with Irish taxation.
    +1 million
    Either high taxes with good services or low taxes with no services.
    Here we have high taxes and no services. The worst of both worlds.

    We already pay too much taxation, either increase it and have everything properly free and funded, or lower taxes to account for the crap level of services we have now


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ mariaalice


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I pay 120 a year for my son's primary school. 50 of that is books, another 50 for photocopying, art and PE supplies and 10 for insurance. The final tenner is for administration. That's the only payment I have all year apart from optional after school activities. I find it very reasonable and the school will take it in instalments if needed and will work with people in genuine difficulty.

    Unfortunately the state doesn't cover these things so parents have to.

    That is the crux of the matter how come your school 120 euro and another its 250 euro.


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  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,504 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Neyite


    Ours is only €40 and the school PTA run an excellent book club which means that from JI to sixth class the books will cost me €40 per year and handed to me every August in a pile, covered. I don't have to buy a single other thing than a school bag, not even a pencil.

    The uniform has generic alternatives too.

    So I'm happy to pay what we pay. I think we get great value for our money compared to some schools. In return, I offer to help out any fundraising event if I can.


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