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Do you agree to this 'voluntary contribution' the schools ask for?

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    #62
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,272 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Regarding crested uniforms/etc.
    It's a hard one to call.
    When I went to primary school we had a plain uniform and crested tracksuit.
    Even tough our uniform was generic most people still purchased the one in the local shop. People did this mainly because the generic one faded/wore really bad.
    Speaking to teachers now some say they've improved and others say they haven't.
    I don't think you had to purchase the tracksuit but they did like you wearing it to school events to make you more noticeable.
    The obvious way to fix this is sell the crests to patents and allow them stitch them on.
    What do they stitch them onto dough?
    Do they say you've to but a jumper in x shop still or would you have kids buying plain designer jumpers and laughing the kids in the Penney's Jumper.
    In secondary school we had a crested jumper and it did look neater everybody wearing the same jumper to be fair.
    I know the local secondary schools introduced the O'Neills half zips.
    There was a lot of pressure from parents and students wanting them.


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    #63
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    screamer wrote: »
    The cost of sending kids back to school is just ridiculous. I think teachers need to pull their heads in and be more resourceful than expecting parents to hand out money for this book, that workbook etc. Load of cobblers. Rental systems should be in place and generic uniforms with no need for fancy crests or one supplier only rip off. Then, I'd gladly contribute to the school, but right now you just feel fleeced for everything and the schools are not helping with their mile long requirements and utter precociousness.

    Unfortunately every school is different, some are fine with just a crested jumper and the rest from Dunnes, others want everything branded.
    Primary schools are usually grand but secondary schools have crazy requirements, it's even worse when you only have one choice in the area. I don't agree with the iPad system where kids can't actually use them for what they want even though you paid through the nose for it and can hand some cash every year to the company that update the books.
    Some schools are incredibly precious, some are just about getting by and this is really sad in order to provide equal education for local kids.


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    #64
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭screamer


    LirW wrote: »
    screamer wrote: »
    The cost of sending kids back to school is just ridiculous. I think teachers need to pull their heads in and be more resourceful than expecting parents to hand out money for this book, that workbook etc. Load of cobblers. Rental systems should be in place and generic uniforms with no need for fancy crests or one supplier only rip off. Then, I'd gladly contribute to the school, but right now you just feel fleeced for everything and the schools are not helping with their mile long requirements and utter precociousness.

    Unfortunately every school is different, some are fine with just a crested jumper and the rest from Dunnes, others want everything branded.
    Primary schools are usually grand but secondary schools have crazy requirements, it's even worse when you only have one choice in the area. I don't agree with the iPad system where kids can't actually use them for what they want even though you paid through the nose for it and can hand some cash every year to the company that update the books.
    Some schools are incredibly precious, some are just about getting by and this is really sad in order to provide equal education for local kids.

    But it's not the schools that are precious it's the teachers in them. I personally hated the condescending little note sent out at mid term to thank you for sending the kids back turned out so well....and looking for the money for swimming now....


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    #65
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Real shame is that the money we waste keeping dole scoungers in beer and ciggies could be going to our schools.


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    #66
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Not at all. I think they are terrific.
    Saves those of us who dont have kids in schools from contributing more through public funding, and claws back a bit of the childrens allowance they are getting.


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    #67
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Not at all. I think they are terrific.
    Saves those of us who dont have kids in schools from contributing more through public funding, and claws back a bit of the childrens allowance they are getting.
    but you need educated children to work and pay taxes in years to come to fund your pension, infrastructure etc


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    #68
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It should be banned under law ,and most of the supposed break down of the costs are likely not even tracked by anyone ,

    I remember my two were younger junior and senior infants we had to pay 600 over a two year for books and supplies ,
    Both were given photocopied sheets for the majority of their first two years ,and when they did get books they had SDCC library stamps ,so we essentially paid to have the school borrow books from the local libraries,
    The same goes for sports equipment you see schools using the same gear for years but according to the breakdown of contributions 20% was spent on sports equipment (but nothing new bought )
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #69
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    If there was increased funding available to the sector, the teachers would be the first with the paw out. If you ask me, the wages of the incumbents have to drop, pensions slashed, and the younger teachers need to get jobs, reformed, with more tasks added to their workload. Utilise them during the summer for example. It is scandalous that we pay extra for invigilation or exam correction for example.

    These cultural issues need to change within teaching, as with the attitudes that the majority of these f#ckers have (especially the "pay restoration" group) we are putting money into a black hole.


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    #70
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Ah the back to school moanfest that some of us can relate to.:D I've only one child in school, Primary, heading to 5th class. Always found it cheap enough. Uniform by 2 was 90 quid. The book list and all the other stuff came to 60 quid. (Only one actual book) The only payment the school look for is €75 for book rental (which is mandatory) and it also covers insurance, photocopying, homework diary and additional readers. No voluntary contribution and its a school in a fairly affluent area.


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    #71
    rafatoni
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭rafatoni


    Must cost auld maggie cash a fortune with her all her kids ;-)


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    #72
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,027 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    rafatoni wrote: »
    Must cost auld maggie cash a fortune with her all her kids ;-)

    I would say the old folk living alone in rural Ireland pick up the tab...


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    #73
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    rafatoni wrote: »
    Must cost auld maggie cash a fortune with her all her kids ;-)

    Back to school allowance for all her kids. Don't get me started as I avoided that particular thread. However, depending on the particular school, it doesn't have to cost the earth. That said, I was advised to start saving now for my daughters entry into secondary school in 2020 by the local shop that supplies all the kit.:eek:


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    #74
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Just signed two cheques for kids in seperate schools. On the one hand I think it is anything but "voluntary". But on the other hand, while I know the onus should be on Dept of education to fund the schools, there is an undeniable, and inevitable shortfall in funding. So, the choice is between parents saying no and the school being unable to provide the service it is there for, or accepting that this is the price of a year of education for a child. I have no confidence that if the school ran out of money mid year, the Dept would give additional funds. By the way, I really don't see how teachers can be blamed for this, I don't know how much a school costs to run but I doubt teachers are financially benefiting from the contributions.

    I do remember being in a school in the late eighties when the heating was off during the winter because the school had no money for oil and parents had to make a contribution to buy it, I certainly would not want that to happen to my kids.


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    #75
    myshirt
    Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    davo10 wrote: »

    I do remember being in a school in the late eighties when the heating was off during the winter because the school had no money for oil and parents had to make a contribution to buy it, I certainly would not want that to happen to my kids.

    And the kids who's parents could afford the contribution managed to get assigned seats next to the rads! I remember a poorer kid sitting by the rad only to be told to get on his bike to make way for Johnny who's parents had paid the fee. That's just as bad as well.


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    #76
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    myshirt wrote: »
    And the kids who's parents could afford the contribution managed to get assigned seats next to the rads! I remember a poorer kid sitting by the rad only to be told to get on his bike to make way for Johnny who's parents had paid the fee. That's just as bad as well.

    Not sure if you guys are talking about Primary school in the late 80s or Secondary school. I grew up across a mixture of schools from the 70s to 80s in wildly different areas and never heard of this carry on.


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    #77
    James Bond Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 5,130 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Jaysus with some of the responses here people would reckon us teachers are personally swilling champagne and dining on caviar on the back of the voluntary comtribution. The reality is schools, in particular primary are constantly borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. Schools get a set amount called a capitation grant which varies based on the school's enrollment. For some schools they can manage but the vast majority can't. Take last years budget spending for example, the winter was long and drawn out meaning oil tanks had to be filled twice just to keep the kids warm. This had to be done on a budget that didn't change and was never near enough to begin with but the bills still had to be paid. Schools can't even reclaim the VAT BTW.

    My school asked for a token amount of voluntary contribution, book rental and finally insurance which is actually invaluable. The total for a family with 2 kids in the school came to the price of a meal for two and a bottle of wine in a mid range restaurant, hardly outrageous. I don't agree with the VC but if schools didn't request it they would run out of money by Christmas with just basic running costs.

    Many teachers do buy things for their classrooms out of their own pockets to benefit their teaching which helps children's learning, I know I reguraly do so less of the sniping please. Nurses don't buy syringes, Gardai dont put diesel in the patrol cars etc so why is it OK for teachers to buy resources? It's not but many teachers have a sense of care and duty to deliver lessons above and beyond for the benefit of their pupils.

    Swimming lessons are on the primary curriculum (Aquatics), teachers can't teach kids to swim in puddles in the yard so additional money is needed to facilitate that. A familarization of facts was needed here I feel.

    There is an election on the not too distant horizon, TDs will be looking for votes and canvassing, if you have paid a VC you feel is unfair, badger them with it on the doorsteps.


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    #78
    Lackey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Lackey


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    That said, I was advised to start saving now for my daughters entry into secondary school in 2020 by the local shop that supplies all the kit.:eek:

    I advise you to keep those savings for when you get the college bill :eek:


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    #79
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,099 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Lackey wrote: »
    I advise you to keep those savings for when you get the college bill :eek:

    I know! That's a different plan. It was so easy when I opted for college. A PLC course as advised - £150 and lived at home with a £17 per week travel pass and then onto an Art college where the fee was £250 and the rest covered by an ESF grant that also awarded me £160 a month for travel and expenses. Flat was £25 per week and I had a part time job too. I feel so sorry for the college goers these days and I may be at the other end soon enough.


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    #80
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭screamer


    My biggest problem with back to school costs are the exhorbitant price of books, a monopoly of a few companies hammering us with stupid prices for books that can't even be passed on because next year teacher will want different books..... There should be no need for this, teachers should be able to write books for the dept of education that can then be printed en masse for much more reasonable prices. Same books and curriculum throughout the country and do away with the BS of a back breaking booklist a mile long


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    #81
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,488 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Schools should be publishing their accounts each year, and sharing these with parents, though many don't. If they're asking for voluntary contributions, they really have to be open and transparent about where the money is going.

    I spent a term on a school board, and it was fairly tough to keep the lights and the heating on. The additional contributions were fairly essential, though they do grate. Compliance rates were over 90% in a south Dublin working/middle class area.


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    #82
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I'm delighted not to be paying back to school costs this year. :)


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    #83
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,516 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I know! That's a different plan. It was so easy when I opted for college. A PLC course as advised - £150 and lived at home with a £17 per week travel pass and then onto an Art college where the fee was £250 and the rest covered by an ESF grant that also awarded me £160 a month for travel and expenses. Flat was £25 per week and I had a part time job too. I feel so sorry for the college goers these days and I may be at the other end soon enough.

    Agreed, college for me really was a fairly free and easy time. Lived at home, had a partial grant and a good part time job.
    My youngest brother starts college next week and I'll be honest, if I wasn't living near where he's attending he probably wouldn't be going.
    Even though he qualifies for a full rate grant, student accommodation costs alone would run at @3600 minimum for the year with no other costs. And as he is an "orphan" now, there's no parents to help him with the costs.
    He is moving in with me, and will be getting a part time job but the costs of 3rd level are creeping ever higher and are only likely to get even higher.
    Particularly worrying is the cost of student accommodation and it's availability.


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    #84
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Schools should be publishing their accounts each year, and sharing these with parents, though many don't. If they're asking for voluntary contributions, they really have to be open and transparent about where the money is going.

    I spent a term on a school board, and it was fairly tough to keep the lights and the heating on. The additional contributions were fairly essential, though they do grate. Compliance rates were over 90% in a south Dublin working/middle class area.
    Err. they are , in most cases, it's just that people aren't bothered turning up to the PTA meeting.


    People seem to mix up the voluntary contribution with actual school costs like books.photocopying/art materials and a bit more for schools to afford luxuries like heating and toilet paper.
    Even the infamous Eddie Hobbs couldn't make a primary school run on the money from the DES.
    Most teachers are funding a lot of classroom supplies from their own pockets. As already pointed out, the money isn't spent on treats for the staff. It's spent on your child.

    Swimming and school tours aren't free, so parents have to pay, because the DES won't . Text-a-parent, standardized tests, school ICT equipment aren't free either and again, the DES won't pay.
    We have had a school book rental scheme for years and as a result, the DES wouldn't give us a cent towards it- 500 text books across the subject areas is a huge outlay. Where photocopies are used, this also costs.


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    #85
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    screamer wrote: »
    My biggest problem with back to school costs are the exhorbitant price of books, a monopoly of a few companies hammering us with stupid prices for books that can't even be passed on because next year teacher will want different books..... There should be no need for this, teachers should be able to write books for the dept of education that can then be printed en masse for much more reasonable prices. Same books and curriculum throughout the country and do away with the BS of a back breaking booklist a mile long
    :D:D:D:D
    Teachers DO write the texts in many cases, but the DES won't pay.


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    #86
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    LirW wrote: »
    There's such a huge disparity in schools around the country. My son attends a rural primary with around 120 children.
    That school gets do little funding they struggle to keep basic activities going. Don't get me wrong, the school is well run because the staff go above and beyond but it's tough. Schools didn't have any computers until last year because some well off family donated a few to the school.
    For them it's a struggle between keeping costs down for a very diverse financial background and scraping by.
    They're asking for 90 but are okay when you pay 30 per term.

    I'm not cool with schools being so underfunded and certain areas being left out more than others. All schools should get the same funding and the same basics regardless of the area they're in. In his first year he went to a school bordering a disadvantaged area in Dublin and that school was equipped miles better than the one he goes to now. The current one is being run a lot better though.

    Regular primary schools get approximately € 330 / child between the capitation grant and the ancillary service payment. Your school should also have received a grant of approximately € 4500 for ICT equipment recently


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    #87
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,488 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Err. they are , in most cases, it's just that people aren't bothered turning up to the PTA meeting.
    Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the Parents Association accounts (though they should indeed be shared with parents), I'm talking about the school accounts itself, required to be shared with parents under the Dept Ed BoM rules. And while I share your concern about lack of interest in PA meetings, this shouldn't be the only option - school accounts should be published to all parents, regardless of whether they can make a particular meeting, or whether they pay the voluntary contribution or whatever. It is for all parents.


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    #88
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Fine with paying it if I had kids but it shouldn't be called voluntary.


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    #89
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    tabby aspreme wrote: »
    Regular primary schools get approximately € 330 / child between the capitation grant and the ancillary service payment. Your school should also have received a grant of approximately € 4500 for ICT equipment recently
    Not much use when you don't have a functioning broadband system and have to pay a private company to get even a basic level of service.
    €330 is less than €2 a day for light, heat, water, phone etc. When we finally got our new school after spending nearly 30 years in pre-fabs, our insurance absolutely rocketed as the building was worth so much more. The grants didn't.


    I really don't understand why people who complain don't go to meetings and see what happens with the money the school receives.


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    #90
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just to be clear, I'm not talking about the Parents Association accounts (though they should indeed be shared with parents), I'm talking about the school accounts itself, required to be shared with parents under the Dept Ed BoM rules. And while I share your concern about lack of interest in PA meetings, this shouldn't be the only option - school accounts should be published to all parents, regardless of whether they can make a particular meeting, or whether they pay the voluntary contribution or whatever. It is for all parents.
    School accounts are presented at our PTA agms, it's the same in most schools I know.They are also available on request to any parent who looks for them.


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    #91
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    It was far from voluntrary. I had to pay it when enrolling my son.


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