So who's going to see the Pope?

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 7:30pm

joe40 wrote: »

That would appear to be the case as far as I can see, but obviously I could be wrong. I don't have a problem with that.

No wonder it is a religion in crisis and decline here.

ligerdub · 27-08-2018 7:34pm

jimmynokia wrote: »

Figures released I dont believe them

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/revealed-how-many-viewers-tuned-in-to-watch-pope-francis-in-ireland-on-rt-one-37256617.html

I guarantee they weren't far off that, it was a hugely significant event for Ireland. A high viewership number doesn't even automatically mean that everyone watching was doing so as it corresponds to their religion, I'm sure a lot looked on for a combination of religious reasons, curiosity of a large event happening in their country, curiosity about potential comments on abortion/LGBT (because they always must get a mention these days)/historical abuse claims etc.

I've been a non-believer for many years now, but I can't help but think that a lot of the coverage of the Pope's visit was needlessly negative, and I feel that one could legitimately hold a cynical viewpoint that the organisers were deliberately doing all they could to keep attendance numbers down on the Sunday event. People were told to go to entrance gates potentially very inconvenient to them depending on where they were coming from, in many cases involving very long walks despite leaving from relatively near the park to begin with! I'm aware of several people who had to walk from the Red Cow to attend the event! That's madness, for anybody, let alone people well on in years. I'm also aware that there were quite a few problems in terms of the organisation of tickets.

I didn't attend the event myself, it would have been hypocritical for me to do so, and I had almost no interest in it. However, I think it's rather unfair that a lot of people, who otherwise would have felt great benefit and privilege to attend this, possibly their last chance to do so, could not reasonably do so.

The link below seems to go on a lot about how the organisers seemed quite happy that it was an easy event to manage because not that many showed up.

https://www.rte.ie/news/pope-francis-in-ireland/2018/0827/987850-phoenix-park/

The aftermath of this is that the narrative is that Catholicism is dead in Ireland (some parts of the media going to town on this), and while the numbers trend in that regard is not encouraging from their point of view, I think a more crowd friendly approach would have seen much, much bigger numbers attend on the day than what was seen. The weather was also abysmal, and with the easy option of watching on the tv I'm sure this was a viable option for many. There are many sticks to beat the Catholic Church with, and I think the integrated links of Church and State was not healthy, but the narrative that there's not the demand to get in the region of 300K plus people to attend a one in a generation papal visit on a normal Sunday afternoon in summer is massively wide of the mark. Fair is fair and all that.

Sofiztikated · 27-08-2018 7:36pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So no answer then, just some wishy washy nonsense that we hear all the time about the 'fullness of the mercy of God'.

Why are there rules and dogma if it all comes down to what God decides?

"Here are the rules that makes you Roman Catholic, you don't have to follow any, many or all of them, you're still a Roman Catholic."

joe40 · 27-08-2018 7:40pm

It is definitely in crisis but are you seriously suggesting this would be reversed if they were to take a more hardline approach and enforce dogma to the letter of the law.
Some priests do that ironically the younger ones, small in number but sometimes very zealous.
Over the years different priest I have met have very different approaches and attitudes. Maybe this is a weakness but I would suggest that if priests had maintained the hardline approach of the 50s the church would be totally dead by now.

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 7:41pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

"Here are the rules that makes you Roman Catholic, you don't have to follow any, many or all of them, you're still a Roman Catholic."

And yet when you ask them to allow same sex marriage, divorce or abortion they will fall back on the mantra that those things are against the will of God. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
But then God will probably turn a blind eye in the fullness of his mercy anyway so let at it, just pretend you aren't letting at it...on Sundays and at weddings etc..

27-08-2018 7:52pm

ligerdub wrote: »

and I feel that one could legitimately hold a cynical viewpoint that the organisers were deliberately doing all they could to keep attendance numbers down on the Sunday event. People were told to go to entrance gates potentially very inconvenient to them depending on where they were coming from, in many cases involving very long walks despite leaving from relatively near the park to begin with! I'm aware of several people who had to walk from the Red Cow to attend the event! That's madness, for anybody, let alone people well on in years. I'm also aware that there were quite a few problems in terms of the organisation of tickets.

I didn't attend the event myself, it would have been hypocritical for me to do so, and I had almost no interest in it. However, I think it's rather unfair that a lot of people, who otherwise would have felt great benefit and privilege to attend this, possibly their last chance to do so, could not reasonably do so.

The link below seems to go on a lot about how the organisers seemed quite happy that it was an easy event to manage because not that many showed up.

https://www.rte.ie/news/pope-francis-in-ireland/2018/0827/987850-phoenix-park/

The weather was also abysmal, and with the easy option of watching on the tv I'm sure this was a viable option for many. There are many sticks to beat the Catholic Church with, and I think the integrated links of Church and State was not healthy, but the narrative that there's not the demand to get in the region of 300K plus people to attend a one in a generation papal visit on a normal Sunday afternoon in summer is massively wide of the mark. Fair is fair and all that.

Very much agree with your post in general and specifically the piece in bold above.
I would have thought parishes would have done more around organizing coaches to designated areas within the Park- that would have made the trip viable for many who wouldn’t be best equipped to go it alone.
Instead we got:
1. We have a morgue in case you die
2. All roads within a number of kilometers will be impassable
3. Take public transport that will leave you miles away from the venue
4. If you’re in a wheelchair, don’t bother coming
5. If you’re living close by, we’ll send you on a totally unnecessary 3km detour.

Given the demographic who would have liked to go, more could have been done for these people. No point in “organizing” a great venue, if the people ear marked to attend have to negotiate all sorts of obstacles.

Sofiztikated · 27-08-2018 8:07pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very much agree with your post in general and specifically the piece in bold above.
I would have thought parishes would have done more around organizing coaches to designated areas within the Park- that would have made the trip viable for many who wouldn’t be best equipped to go it alone.
Instead we got:
1. We have a morgue in case you die
2. All roads within a number of kilometers will be impassable
3. Take public transport that will leave you miles away from the venue
4. If you’re in a wheelchair, don’t bother coming
5. If you’re living close by, we’ll send you on a totally unnecessary 3km detour.

Given the demographic who would have liked to go, more could have been done for these people. No point in “organizing” a great venue, if the people ear marked to attend have to negotiate all sorts of obstacles.

To be fair, without that organisation, if the numbers turned up that were touted, it would have been chaos, and the state would have been made out to be unprepared.

Plus there's the added element of increased security. If "something" had happened, the State would be goosed on an international stage.

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 8:13pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

To be fair, without that organisation, if the numbers turned up that were touted, it would have been chaos, and the state would have been made out to be unprepared.

Plus there's the added element of increased security. If "something" had happened, the State would be goosed on an international stage.

It just more excuse making. If there was any size of a crowd that had complaints about not being able to get there or were put off from going Joe Duffy's switchboard would have gone into meltdown. Very few publicily complaining about this.

NIMAN · 27-08-2018 8:14pm

RoryMac wrote: »

It's a lie, he has met with Philomena Lee and the Archbishop has talked about his shock when being told about the Mother & baby homes previously.

Not sure why he is trying to deny knowledge now when it's on record he knew

Afaik, he had the details of the mother and baby homes and the laundries explained to him by Archbishop Eamon Martin when they met before.

So he's flat out lying.

Arthur Daley · 27-08-2018 8:15pm

ligerdub wrote: »

I've been a non-believer for many years now, but I can't help but think that a lot of the coverage of the Pope's visit was needlessly negative, and I feel that one could legitimately hold a cynical viewpoint that the organisers were deliberately doing all they could to keep attendance numbers down on the Sunday event.

There are many sticks to beat the Catholic Church with, and I think the integrated links of Church and State was not healthy, but the narrative that there's not the demand to get in the region of 300K plus people to attend a one in a generation papal visit on a normal Sunday afternoon in summer is massively wide of the mark. Fair is fair and all that.

Fair play. I reached a similar conclusion based on what I saw actually going to it yesterday.

murpho999 · 27-08-2018 8:16pm

I wish people would stop making excuses for the poor attendance.

The same issues with road closures, transport and walking were faced in 1979 and over a million turned up.

Do people think that some rain kept 370,000 people away?

Do people really think that the majority of these 370,000 people are infirm (how could they know that?) ?

Just accept that the demand was not there.

Hitman3000 · 27-08-2018 8:19pm

For all those making multiple excuses for the poor attendance on Sunday, any thoughts on the dismal numbers on Saturday? Fine sunny day, through the city street not even a third of the expected 100k out on the streets.

CUCINA · 27-08-2018 8:21pm

I wouldn't class myself as particularly religious but I did watch a lot of the TV coverage, especially on the Saturday.
The three highlights for me were:
The aerial shots of Dublin
The speech by Leo Varadkar
Andrea Bocelli

I would respect the religious convictions of others, but I had to give up watching the Phoenix Park event... Dreary music, dreary weather.. Papal platitudes.

The band Police had a great line in one of their songs:
"Poets, priests, and politicians have words to thank for their positions"

fly_agaric · 27-08-2018 8:23pm

All this talk of the enforcement of the rules and regulations of being a real-deal Catholic and orders from our angry new atheist authoritarians on exactly how a good citizen should fill in the census form

:eek:

Do they really think that local priests are going to start raining down fire and brimstone from the pulpit at mass about how Joe Bloggs just slunk in the back and hasn't been seen since Easter Sunday is going to roast in the fires of Hell?

Suppose it makes for a nice little fantasy, fuel for a five minutes hate. :pac:

27-08-2018 8:23pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

To be fair, without that organisation, if the numbers turned up that were touted, it would have been chaos, and the state would have been made out to be unprepared.

Plus there's the added element of increased security. If "something" had happened, the State would be goosed on an international stage.

Ah yeah, I get all that and took it into consideration when I posted my reply. I travelled west Sunday morning. Road heading East was eerily quiet. Only a couple of coaches and those were the usual ones you’d see anyway that time of day. I’m not criticizing the organization of the venue - from what I’ve heard, it was second to none. I’m criticizing the ability of the organizers to make it easy for people to approach the venue from where they were coming from. They just didn’t achieve this.

Beechwoodspark · 27-08-2018 8:26pm

Look at all the catholic

Baptisms
Holy communions
Confirmations
Weddings
And funerals

That are held in this country. It’s deeply catholic. Less so than 1979 but still, come on like

batgoat · 27-08-2018 8:29pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Look at all the catholic

Baptisms
Holy communions
Confirmations
Weddings
And funerals

That are held in this country. It’s deeply catholic. Less so than 1979 but still, come on like

You'll likely see less and less opting for Catholic funerals and weddings as time goes on. Baptisms, communions and confirmations are because our education system does have the right to discriminate based on if you are baptised or not. If Communions and Confirmations weren't enshrined in our education system, the numbers would fall off a cliff...

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 8:29pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

All this talk of the enforcement of the rules and regulations of being a real-deal Catholic and orders from our angry new atheist authoritarians on exactly how a good citizen should fill in the census form:eek:

Do they really think that local priests are going to start raining down fire and brimstone from the pulpit at mass about how Joe Bloggs just slunk in the back and hasn't been seen since Easter Sunday is going to roast in the fires of Hell?

Suppose it makes for nice little fantasy, fuel for a five minutes hate. :pac:

If nobody adheres to them, why have them? Why all the nonsense when people require modern social change?

By all means keep up the pretence and lies, but the church will just dive deeper into it's crisis.

Because nobody at heart really believes any of it and can cast off the bull**** in the ballot box and the bedroom and when it comes to seeing the pope apparently or going to mass. Another few scandals, which are coming, and it will be impossible to see this visit as anything other than a fudge and charade.

murpho999 · 27-08-2018 8:31pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Look at all the catholic

Baptisms
Holy communions
Confirmations
Weddings
And funerals

That are held in this country. It’s deeply catholic. Less so than 1979 but still, come on like

That's the a la carte Catholics in action but they don't live the rest of their lives as the catholics want.
Onlly happens for cultural reasons or through kids being forced to attend catholic schools.

Look at all the couples living in sin.
How many couples getting married are virgins?
How many go to mass every weekend which is a requirement?
How many use contraception outside the rhythm method?
How any voted for divorce, abortion and gay marriage?

Spanish Eyes · 27-08-2018 8:32pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Look at all the catholic

Baptisms
Holy communions
Confirmations
Weddings
And funerals

That are held in this country. It’s deeply catholic. Less so than 1979 but still, come on like

Cultural, not religious IMV. And traditional too.

I don't think many people attending such services/celebration even think of God or the Pope or anything other than how quickly will this be over please God!

amdublin · 27-08-2018 8:32pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Look at all the catholic

Baptisms
Holy communions
Confirmations
Weddings
And funerals

That are held in this country. It’s deeply catholic. Less so than 1979 but still, come on like

Well I think the party attached to all of those gets more attention than the Catholic part of it!

Also...there was no alternative to them for years and years. Every year more and more couples forego the church part and have their weddings in the hotel. I guess funerals are next - people will look for alternatives that are non religious.

And baptisms no doubt will go down - Sure a lot of people were doing them just for school entry

Beechwoodspark · 27-08-2018 8:33pm

murpho999 wrote: »

That's the a la carte Catholics in action but they don't live the rest of their lives as the catholics want.
Onlly happens for cultural reasons or through kids being forced to attend catholic schools.

Look at all the couples living in sin.
How many couples getting married are virgins?
How many go to mass every weekend which is a requirement?
How many use contraception outside the rhythm method?
How any voted for divorce, abortion and gay marriage?

I’d say loads of them don’t match up to the perfect catholic template! They still go and have the catholic ceremonies though! Often really ostentatious displays too

Beechwoodspark · 27-08-2018 8:35pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Cultural, not religious IMV. And traditional too.

I don't think many people attending such services/celebration even think of God or the Pope or anything other than how quickly will this be over please God!

That’s my point exactly.

They still go back to the church for various reasons. This perfect catholic thing doesn’t really exist except for the hardcore believers. The rest just are a la carte as someone said above.

Sofiztikated · 27-08-2018 8:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah yeah, I get all that and took it into consideration when I posted my reply. I travelled west Sunday morning. Road heading East was eerily quiet. Only a couple of coaches and those were the usual ones you’d see anyway that time of day. I’m not criticizing the organization of the venue - from what I’ve heard, it was second to none. I’m criticizing the ability of the organizers to make it easy for people to approach the venue from where they were coming from. They just didn’t achieve this.

I was heading north on the M3 at 4am and there was reasonable traffic heading in at that point, not heavy, but more than usual.

At least 2 stewards at virtually every junction around the park at that time too.

They were just over prepared for the numbers.

CUCINA · 27-08-2018 8:42pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Look at all the catholic

Baptisms
Holy communions
Confirmations
Weddings
And funerals

That are held in this country. It’s deeply catholic. Less so than 1979 but still, come on like

I wouldn't agree with the statement that Ireland is deeply Catholic. A lot of the above events are subject to family pressures from the older generations And I'd say that there will continue to be an increase in Humanist events to mark some of the occasions referenced above.

Stoner · 27-08-2018 8:42pm

I regret not going

Beechwoodspark · 27-08-2018 8:44pm

CUCINA wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the statement that Ireland is deeply Catholic. A lot of the above events are subject to family pressures from the older generations And I'd say that there will continue to be an increase in Humanist events to mark some of the occasions referenced above.

Probably will. It was overwhelmingly Catholic for decades so only really can decrease over time.

murpho999 · 27-08-2018 8:46pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’d say loads of them don’t match up to the perfect catholic template! They still go and have the catholic ceremonies though! Often really ostentatious displays too

It''s only done due to social norms and as it's the expected thing to do and none of it is for true religious reasons at all.

Beechwoodspark · 27-08-2018 8:47pm

murpho999 wrote: »

It''s only done due to social norms and as it's the expected thing to do and none of it is for true religious reasons at all.

I’d say that covers a lot but also lot of ppl would tell u how much they believe in it all. Each to their own

fly_agaric · 27-08-2018 8:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If nobody adheres to them, why have them? Why all the nonsense when people require modern social change?

I'd not be so arrogant as to know what Irish people as a collective "require", but fair enough.
We've made a lot of improvements but not all of it is positive.

As regards to why many people still have a certain attachment to the rituals (going to mass once or twice a year, weddings, funerals, sending children to a catholic run school, as many do even if they are fortunate enough to have other options locally) when they should "know better" as you'd put it, I'm not sure.

I also feel the pull of these rituals due to upbringing. I can see it does fulfil a need for people. Why do people still call themselves "jews" + celebrate the big events in their religion if they don't follow the letter of the religious law? Why do many protestant Christians around Europe also act in a fairly similar way?

I suppose your answer is they are all just "liars"? There's something to be said for that but it is kind of harsh.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By all means keep up the pretence and lies, but the church will just dive deeper into it's crisis.

Why the "but"?

You want it to die don't you?

Spanish Eyes · 27-08-2018 8:50pm

Why did God not arrange for dry weather on Sunday. I must ask him!

I thought he could do anything. But he didn't protect little children and single mothers, and the sale of children, and the violation of the Magdalens and children abused, and so much more.

My mother remembers having to be "churched" after my birth, presumably that was because she had to have intercourse to conceive me. My Dad didn't have to go through that ritual.

So many things wrong. So very many things just plain wrong with the CC. No wonder people are just fekking off in their droves.

Those who choose to remain will be the believers, and will never be a la carte. Good luck to them.

Sycamore Tree · 27-08-2018 8:51pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Why did God not arrange for dry weather on Sunday. I must ask him!

I thought he could do anything. But he didn't protect little children and single mothers, and the sale of children, and the violation of the Magdalens and children abused, and so much more.

My mother remembers having to be "churched" after my birth, presumably that was because she had to have intercourse to conceive me. My Dad didn't have to go through that ritual.

So many things wrong. So very many things just plain wrong with the CC. No wonder people are just fekking off in their droves.

Those who choose to remain will be the believers, and will never be a la carte. Good luck to them.

Can you explain the bit in bold? Why/How?

NIMAN · 27-08-2018 8:54pm

Some of its rituals might have seemed normal to a backward nation 50 years ago, but those days are gone. Ireland is very progressive and modern, and that sort of old nonsense isn't washing with the population any more.

You can see that the church and their teachings are at odds with the general consenus, and thats why they are dying. If they can't see that they need to change, so be it.

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 8:54pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Can you explain the bit in bold? Why/How?

You had to be cleansed ritually after birth. I actually remember my mother going for it after the birth of my youngest brother and sister. '68 and 70 if I remember correctly.

murpho999 · 27-08-2018 8:57pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’d say that covers a lot but also lot of ppl would tell u how much they believe in it all. Each to their own

I fully agree with each to their own but the church and its flock don't have an "each to their own" policy hence all the problems they have caused in this country and lateness in having proper laws on social issues.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 27-08-2018 8:58pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Can you explain the bit in bold? Why/How?

Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans and the eastern churches had a ceremony where a blessing was given to mothers after childbirth. It included thanksgiving for the woman's survival of childbirth.
It was related to Jewish practice where women were purified after giving birth.

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 8:59pm

murpho999 wrote: »

I fully agree with each to their own but the church and its flock don't have an "each to their own" policy hence all the problems they have caused in this country and lateness in having proper laws on social issues.

Exactly. I don't care if you want to worship a goat. Just don't have your nose stuck in what I want to do and how I want to live.

Spanish Eyes · 27-08-2018 9:00pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You had to be cleansed ritually after birth. I actually remember my mother going for it after the birth of my youngest brother and sister. '68 and 70 if I remember correctly.

A woman had to be cleansed, never a man.

And they could not attend the baptism/christening of their child until they had been "churched/cleansed" either. Back in the day the child was baptised within a few days, so many women could not even attend the christening of their child.

But Dad could!

There are echoes of a Jewish tradition in this too.

Honestly. WTAF? My mother who is ailing now is still raging at them for missing my christening because she could not be "churched" in time. But the hospital arranged the christening, and that was that.

So fkn cruel. Mothers then had just as much love for their children as nowadays, but by the iron fist of the CC had to obey the rules. Poor woman.

Edward M · 27-08-2018 9:02pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So no answer then, just some wishy washy nonsense that we hear all the time about the 'fullness of the mercy of God'.

Why are there rules and dogma if it all comes down to what God decides?

Basically yes.
I still call myself catholic, I may not be one in the strictest sense, but who is anyone to say I'm not?
No human could follow every rule to the letter of the law of the church I think.
Let the catholic who is perfect stand up and call me out, let anyone who isn't a catholic even call me on it.
I surely think that the Vatican is corrupt and have hidden the truth in so much of the scandals that have been highlighted, but these aren't perfect catholics either and they are like me, human.
I don't believe in any perfect humanity, it just isn't a thing that can be achieved.
Am I a bad person because other humans who happen to catholics do horrific things, I don't think so, but if anyone thinks I'm bad because I identify myself as something that has done bad things then so be it.
Our prisons are full to the gills with bad Irish people, catholics and other, are we all bad Irish people because of that?

lmimmfn · 27-08-2018 9:04pm

@ the OP, when's he coming?

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 9:06pm

Edward M wrote: »

Basically yes.
I still call myself catholic, I may not be one in the strictest sense, but who is anyone to say I'm not?
No human could follow every rule to the letter of the law of the church I think.
Let the catholic who is perfect stand up and call me out, let anyone who isn't a catholic even call me on it.
I surely think that the Vatican is corrupt and have hidden the truth in so much of the scandals that have been highlighted, but these aren't perfect catholics either and they are like me, human.
I don't believe in any perfect humanity, it just isn't a thing that can be achieved.
Am I a bad person because other humans who happen to catholics do horrific things, I don't think so, but if anyone thinks I'm bad because I identify myself as something that has done bad things then so be it.
Our prisons are full to the gills with bad Irish people, catholics and other, are we all bad Irish people because of that?

You are a Roman Catholic or a Catholic. If it is a Roman Catholic that is because you are aligned to the Vatican. Protestants are catholics.

Sycamore Tree · 27-08-2018 9:07pm

Has anyone an account in the Vatican bank? What kind of interest rates are they offering?

NIMAN · 27-08-2018 9:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are a Roman Catholic or a Catholic. If it is a Roman Catholic that is because you are aligned to the Vatican. Protestants are catholics.

Have you tried telling Arlene that?;)

Spanish Eyes · 27-08-2018 9:13pm

I doubt that FOI or GDPR or whatever applies to the Vatican State. But they are not EU are they? But seem to have all the advantages nonetheless. Divine Intervention I am sure..

I have no proof, but the Vatican State appears to me to have dodgy money and banks and openly gay seminarians and everything that goes against the real word of God within its square mile or whatever it is.

All Popes are puppets too. There is always someone else pulling the strings in the background. Benny resigned because he could not control the mess.

If they wish to change my mind they can, but they haven't up to now.

UsedToWait · 27-08-2018 9:15pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Has anyone an account in the Vatican bank? What kind of interest rates are they offering?

They only do bridging loans.

Trasna1 · 27-08-2018 9:20pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A woman had to be cleansed, never a man.

And they could not attend the baptism/christening of their child until they had been "churched/cleansed" either. Back in the day the child was baptised within a few days, so many women could not even attend the christening of their child.

But Dad could!

There are echoes of a Jewish tradition in this too.

Honestly. WTAF? My mother who is ailing now is still raging at them for missing my christening because she could not be "churched" in time. But the hospital arranged the christening, and that was that.

So fkn cruel. Mothers then had just as much love for their children as nowadays, but by the iron fist of the CC had to obey the rules. Poor woman.

It wasn't a ritual cleansing, but a blessing. It was one that had it's origins in it being the end of a period known as lying-in which was a continental custom.

The rite still exists afaik and father's receive a blessing now too.

Fighting Tao · 27-08-2018 9:22pm

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Has anyone an account in the Vatican bank? What kind of interest rates are they offering?

Insurance is not their main market but they sell Child Rape protection policies for a third party.

FrancieBrady · 27-08-2018 9:25pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I doubt that FOI or GDPR or whatever applies to the Vatican State. But they are not EU are they? But seem to have all the advantages nonetheless. Divine Intervention I am sure..

I have no proof, but the Vatican State appears to me to have dodgy money and banks and openly gay seminarians and everything that goes against the real word of God within its square mile or whatever it is.

All Popes are puppets too. There is always someone else pulling the strings in the background. Benny resigned because he could not control the mess.

If they wish to change my mind they can, but they haven't up to now.

I think they had investments in a condom factory at one time. More pretence and lies.

Spanish Eyes · 27-08-2018 9:25pm

Trasna1 wrote: »

It wasn't a ritual cleansing, but a blessing. It was one that had it's origins in it being the end of a period known as lying-in which was a continental custom.

The rite still exists afaik and father's receive a blessing now too.

What country is that in? Certainly not here in Ireland in the CC.

Did you read my post about mothers not being able to attend their child's christening if they had not been "Churched" before the Crhistening ceremony of their child?

Spanish Eyes · 27-08-2018 9:29pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think they had investments in a condom factory at one time. More pretence and lies.

Nothing surprises me anymore about the Vatican State. It appears to me to be so corrupt that they wheel out the head honcho every so often to make it look good. I think Ireland just gave them a left hook though.

Honestly it is just bizarre really that the Vatican stuff is not ever commented on really. Someone knows about it all, so either they have been paid off, or might get a poisoned umbrella in their back. So stay quiet it is.

So who's going to see the Pope?

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