So who's going to see the Pope?

Taytoland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Loads of them break the rules and still consider themselves Catholics. I find it hard to believe that you feel you can deny someone their freedom to choose what religion they are.

They are not Catholics. Denying doesn't come into it, they disqualify themselves.

How do you think you are going to heaven if you are breaking most of the entry requirements?

Serious question. How does that delusion work, can you explain how you do it?

Well it is religion, delusion is an absolute must have.

Hitman3000

Beechwoodspark wrote:

Well I suppose that’s for ppl to ponder themselves. I think ppl should have freedom of religion and it’s protected rightfully so in my opinion, in the constitution.

They already do have that right, not sure what you are banging on about tbh. No rights being denied just hypocrisy being highlighted.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

Well it is religion, delusion is an absolute must have.

New religions appear all the time. Brexitism is sweeping the UK at the moment. Has many symptoms of an organised religion. Make it up as you go along: check. Fervour and delusion of its adherents: check. Lack of a fact based foundation: check.

ouxbbkqtswdfaw

The reason the Catholic Church has collapsed is as a result of Vatican 2. Vatican 2 taught that it was not necessary to be a Catholic to get to heaven. Then what was the point of being a Catholic? The church stopped preaching about hell, and people disbelieved that the loving God of Vatican 2 would send anyone to hell. Short step then to wonder if heaven existed. If hell doesn't exist, why should heaven? Then people rejected the whole lot.

Taytoland

Deleted User wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

Well it is religion, delusion is an absolute must have.

New religions appear all the time. Brexitism is sweeping the UK at the moment. Has many symptoms of an organised religion. Make it up as you go along: check. Fervour and delusion of its adherents: check. Lack of a fact based foundation: check.

Brexit is a political view on the future of the United Kingdom outside the EU. Catholicism is belief in someone who created the world in seven days. A terrible comparison but you had to make it as you can't have any criticism of Catholicism.

joe40

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Honest question - why do intelligent Irish people protect the church so strongly despite everything even when at the same time dismissing church rules at will?
Is it the fear of death and needing the church for constant reassurances that there is a happy afterlife if they do a, b and c? Are there a myriad of reasons?

I'm far from a devout catholic and will in no way try to defend the church in relation to the vile abuse and cover up by the church hierarchy (still ongoing). At the same time I can see the good aspects which exist. My mother died last year in her mid 80s after several years of very limited mobility and pain. She got great pleasure and peace from her faith, and visit from the priest were very important. He was great and really developed a deep bond with her.
Maybe according to some here she was nothing but a liar and a hypocrite since she did not condemn my brother for living with his partner and having a family outside wedlock. Instead she accepted them fully.
During a really difficult time in hospital it was the hospital priest who was a real comfort for her and us.
It is not a case of all in or all out with religion, every religion, things are not that binary.

Edward M

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are not Catholics. Denying doesn't come into it, they disqualify themselves.

How do you think you are going to heaven if you are breaking most of the entry requirements?

Serious question. How does that delusion work, can you explain how you do it?

The catholic church allows you to lapse and still call yourself a catholic, once they get their hooks in you they don't want to let go.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsed_Catholic

Junkyard Tom

The Criminal Assets Bureau should have been sent in years ago.

jimmynokia

Figures released I dont believe them

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/revealed-how-many-viewers-tuned-in-to-watch-pope-francis-in-ireland-on-rt-one-37256617.html

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cabaal wrote: »

Fact they are still trying to make Mother Teresa a Saint says alot about the church, she was a monster

I agree. I always found her a vile person.

But they aren't trying to make her a saint. They have done it already. She was canonised in Sept 2016.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

q07vcm4b9ydnz5 wrote: »

The reason the Catholic Church has collapsed is as a result of Vatican 2. Vatican 2 taught that it was not necessary to be a Catholic to get to heaven. Then what was the point of being a Catholic? The church stopped preaching about hell, and people disbelieved that the loving God of Vatican 2 would send anyone to hell. Short step then to wonder if heaven existed. If hell doesn't exist, why should heaven? Then people rejected the whole lot.

Or as a friend of mine said. "After Vatican 2 their flock was no longer made up solely of sheep".

FrancieBrady

Edward M wrote: »

The catholic church allows you to lapse and still call yourself a catholic, once they get their hooks in you they don't want to let go.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsed_Catholic

That is more of the their nonsense.

You'll notice none of them were leaping to answer this question, because it exposes the hypocrisy at the core of this.

How do you think you are going to heaven if you are breaking most of the entry requirements?

Serious question. How does that delusion work, can you explain how you do it?

Discodog

If Francis did deny knowledge of Tuam & there is real evidence that he knew then it deserves more publicity.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

Brexit is a political view on the future of the United Kingdom outside the EU. Catholicism is belief in someone who created the world in seven days. A terrible comparison but you had to make it as you can't have any criticism of Catholicism.

Its very good comparison when people such as yourself declare that the economy or economic issues aren't important when considering Brexit. Funny you should mention 'creating the world in seven days' because its equally silly to think that Britain is going to run around the planet on its own and sign new trade deals to lift it to new heights of prosperity. Feel free to continue to criticise catholicism, all i'm pointing out is that delusional opinions aren't confined to the area of religion.

thegetawaycar

The whole, if you don't follow every rule or belief you can't call yourself a Catholic is clutching at straws. If a Muslim breaks fasting during Ramadan do they stop being Muslim? does the atheist who turns up to a Catholic funeral suddenly stop being atheist?

People can call themselves what they want but it's clear the RCC are dying out in Ireland and in it's current form it's not a bad thing.

There are plenty of people that their faith helps them carry on through bad times and I consider that an important benefit of religion.

Not sure if people are serious about going to heaven? Pretty sure in school we learnt that confession was the way to make amends by the Catholic churches teaching, could be wrong.

Someone more religious might know better though.

Edward M

Edward M wrote: »

The catholic church allows you to lapse and still call yourself a catholic, once they get their hooks in you they don't want to let go.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsed_Catholic

Didn't they remove the means by which you could defect a few years back. I recall there being a webstie with template for a letter you could send them to be removed from their number

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

The operations manager at Knock Airport said on air that every one in the country wants to meet the Pope. Speak for yourself, buddy boy! The delusion.

Allinall

jimmynokia wrote: »

Figures released I dont believe them

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/revealed-how-many-viewers-tuned-in-to-watch-pope-francis-in-ireland-on-rt-one-37256617.html

100% of posters on this and other threads watched and lived every moment of the pope’s visit, so I’d say the indo “s figures are fairly accurate.

FrancieBrady

thegetawaycar wrote: »

The whole, if you don't follow every rule or belief you can't call yourself a Catholic is clutching at straws. If a Muslim breaks fasting during Ramadan do they stop being Muslim? does the atheist who turns up to a Catholic funeral suddenly stop being atheist?

People can call themselves what they want but it's clear the RCC are dying out in Ireland and in it's current form it's not a bad thing.

There are plenty of people that their faith helps them carry on through bad times and I consider that an important benefit of religion.

Never mind Muslims or what others do, that is a whole other debate. You are told very clearly that you will not be in the kingdom of Heaven if you do not comply with the rules of the RC church. So can you answer this question?

How do you think you are going to heaven if you are breaking most of the entry requirements?

Serious question. How does that delusion work, can you explain how you do it?

FrancieBrady

Allinall wrote: »

100% of posters on this and other threads watched and lived every moment of the pope’s visit, so I’d say the indo “s figures are fairly accurate.

Don't know about 'lived' but I tuned in a good few times and it certainly wasn't to be reverential or to bolster my faith.
I think there were many like me, so I can see where the figures are coming from too. Accurate I would imagine.

Arthur Daley

Mass for the Pope or any member of the clergy will be a few people gathered together. So he would turn up in the future anyway, and not be up half the night worrying obsessively about radar guns counting the dots in the field.

He said mass to 40,000 people in Geneva in June. First Papal visit to Switzerland in 14 years.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20180622/pope-celebrates-mass-before-tens-of-thousands-in-geneva

awec

thegetawaycar wrote: »

The whole, if you don't follow every rule or belief you can't call yourself a Catholic is clutching at straws. If a Muslim breaks fasting during Ramadan do they stop being Muslim? does the atheist who turns up to a Catholic funeral suddenly stop being atheist?

People can call themselves what they want but it's clear the RCC are dying out in Ireland and in it's current form it's not a bad thing.

There are plenty of people that their faith helps them carry on through bad times and I consider that an important benefit of religion.

Not sure if people are serious about going to heaven? Pretty sure in school we learnt that confession was the way to make amends by the Catholic churches teaching, could be wrong.

Someone more religious might know better though.

I think you are misunderstanding the point. There is no comparison here. Atheists have no belief in god, there is no organisation dictating what they should believe. They could go to mass every Sunday cause they like the music, it's meaningless to them.

What separates Roman Catholics from other Christians is their belief in the absolute primacy of Rome. To be a Catholic is to subscribe, in their entirety, to the teachings of the Catholic Church on top of what's in the bible. That is the very definition of being Roman Catholic.

A Christian who does not believe in what the RCC is teaching them is not a RC in the religious sense, it just doesn't make any sense. They are some sort of Catholic/Protestant hybrid. It is like a person saying they are a vegan but they eat fish.

lawred2

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Honest question - why do intelligent Irish people protect the church so strongly despite everything even when at the same time dismissing church rules at will?
Is it the fear of death and needing the church for constant reassurances that there is a happy afterlife if they do a, b and c? Are there a myriad of reasons?

Intelligent?

lawred2

jimmynokia wrote: »

Figures released I dont believe them

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/revealed-how-many-viewers-tuned-in-to-watch-pope-francis-in-ireland-on-rt-one-37256617.html

Grade A bullsh!t

AllForIt

I watched it only because it was a rare occasion. Haven't a religious bone in my body.

Spanish Eyes

awec wrote: »

What separates Roman Catholics from other Christians is their belief in the absolute primacy of Rome. To be a Catholic is to subscribe, in their entirety, to the teachings of the Catholic Church on top of what's in the bible. That is the very definition of being Roman Catholic.

A Christian who does not believe in what the RCC is teaching them is not a RC in the religious sense, it just doesn't make any sense. They are some sort of Catholic/Protestant hybrid. It is like a person saying they are a vegan but they eat fish.

Good post. I am not atheist, I THINK I believe in a higher power, but I certainly do not need a hierarchy, Pope, priest or a church to believe. Organised religion with a top master is probably unique to the CC. Someone may know differently. Maybe the Dalia Lama is another.

Protestants seem to get along fine without the equivalent of a Pope, as do many other religions.

I've often thought of going to a Quaker meeting. That sounds right to me. And that group did so much for people in Dublin too. Just saying.

joe40

FrancieBrady wrote: »

thegetawaycar wrote: »

The whole, if you don't follow every rule or belief you can't call yourself a Catholic is clutching at straws. If a Muslim breaks fasting during Ramadan do they stop being Muslim? does the atheist who turns up to a Catholic funeral suddenly stop being atheist?

People can call themselves what they want but it's clear the RCC are dying out in Ireland and in it's current form it's not a bad thing.

There are plenty of people that their faith helps them carry on through bad times and I consider that an important benefit of religion.

Never mind Muslims or what others do, that is a whole other debate. You are told very clearly that you will not be in the kingdom of Heaven if you do not comply with the rules of the RC church. So can you answer this question?

How do you think you are going to heaven if you are breaking most of the entry requirements?

Serious question. How does that delusion work, can you explain how you do it?

I don't think church teaching is that simplistic, with "entry requirements" for heaven. I talking to a priest one time during my more anti catholic/religion phase and I was taking your exact argument. His answer was that no one can understand the fullness of the mercy of god so it is impossible for us to say someone will not get into heaven.
So I don't think teaching are as clear cut or simplistic as you are making out.
Then again I'm not a devout catholic and am in no way qualified to discuss catholic theology. Maybe you are a scholar of Catholicism and know the teachings in intimate detail. I personally don't care but I do know people get, to differing amounts, something out of their religion.
I'm not going to try to ridicule them for that, so long as it doesn't affect me.

FrancieBrady

joe40 wrote: »

I don't think church teaching is that simplistic, with "entry requirements" for heaven. I talking to a priest one time during my more anti catholic/religion phase and I was taking your exact argument. His answer was that no one can understand the fullness of the mercy of god so it is impossible for us to say someone will not get into heaven.
So I don't think teaching are as clear cut or simplistic as you are making out.
Then again I'm not a devout catholic and am in no way qualified to discuss catholic theology. Maybe you are a scholar of Catholicism and know the teachings in intimate detail. I personally don't care but I do know people get, to differing amounts, something out of their religion.
I'm not going to try to ridicule them for that, so long as it doesn't affect me.

So no answer then, just some wishy washy nonsense that we hear all the time about the 'fullness of the mercy of God'.

Why are there rules and dogma if it all comes down to what God decides?

Spanish Eyes

If only the RC hierarchy and the Vatican were CHRISTIAN instead of CATHOLIC. Imagine that.

Loving Jesus without a Pope and a load of fellas in dresses waving the incense around imagine that!

I have to say I was bemused whilst watching bits and pieces of the Mass y/day to see all these obsequious men in full flowing gear, I thought it looked a bit medieval myself.

I think Frankie would have liked it to be a simpler occasion on that altar too.

Anyway, the music and the choirs were excellent. Have to say.

joe40

FrancieBrady wrote: »

joe40 wrote: »

I don't think church teaching is that simplistic, with "entry requirements" for heaven. I talking to a priest one time during my more anti catholic/religion phase and I was taking your exact argument. His answer was that no one can understand the fullness of the mercy of god so it is impossible for us to say someone will not get into heaven.
So I don't think teaching are as clear cut or simplistic as you are making out.
Then again I'm not a devout catholic and am in no way qualified to discuss catholic theology. Maybe you are a scholar of Catholicism and know the teachings in intimate detail. I personally don't care but I do know people get, to differing amounts, something out of their religion.
I'm not going to try to ridicule them for that, so long as it doesn't affect me.

So no answer then, just some wishy washy nonsense that we hear all the time about the 'fullness of the mercy of God'.

Why are there rules and dogma if it all comes down to what God decides?

That would appear to be the case as far as I can see, but obviously I could be wrong. I don't have a problem with that.