Sports Coalition boycotts FCP

BattleCorp · 27-07-2018 11:27am

That protest was a waste of shoe leather.

I can't see the Minister rescinding the dealer S.I.

I'd love to be wrong.

gunny123 · 27-07-2018 11:38am

BattleCorp wrote: »

That protest was a waste of shoe leather.

I can't see the Minister rescinding the dealer S.I.

I'd love to be wrong.

But he might have gotten the message that the sc represents no one apart from the couple of chancers in it.

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2018 11:45am

Why dont we just put together an open letter to Min Stanton stating that as Irish shooters and gun owners,the SC does in no way reflect or represent us anymore at the level of the FCP,and that we wish them removed from said group?

solarwinds · 27-07-2018 11:45am

To withdraw it would be to admit he was wrong and no minister has that in him or her.

BattleCorp · 27-07-2018 11:45am

gunny123 wrote: »

But he might have gotten the message that the sc represents no one apart from the couple of chancers in it.

Too late for the dealers affected by that SI though.

Nekarsulm · 27-07-2018 12:00pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Why dont we just put together an open letter to Min Stanton stating that as Irish shooters and gun owners,the SC does in no way reflect or represent us anymore at the level of the FCP,and that we wish them removed from said group?

Solarwinds:: To withdraw it would be to admit he was wrong and no minister has that in him or her.

I sent such a letter a few months ago, and received an acknowledgement, as did some others here.

I'm sure the Minister could "Review" his decision instead of "Withdrawing" it!

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2018 12:17pm

What would be better? A reviewed decision or removal of future threats to the sport? We lost this battle, but we could still win a war by removing the SCOVI.
Which I think should be the ultimate goal here...

And TBH after watching that video clip again,I get the impression the gun dealers were more upset about licensing procedures with AGS/DOJ rather than being cut out from the discussion on security arrangements.

We should stop looking behind us,we are not going that way.[To misquote Ragna Lothbrok of Vikings fame]

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2018 12:20pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Solarwinds:: .

I sent such a letter a few months ago, and received an acknowledgement, as did some others here.

It needs to be a group effort for it to have any weight,with signatures and proper addresses,rather than an online petition.As an open letter does carry more weight still and gives the SCOVI a chance to respond too to the accusations.

BattleCorp · 27-07-2018 12:47pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Why dont we just put together an open letter to Min Stanton stating that as Irish shooters and gun owners,the SC does in no way reflect or represent us anymore at the level of the FCP,and that we wish them removed from said group?

I've written to the Minister a good while ago and told him that the SC don't represent my views nor do they represent the views of the majority of shooters here in Ireland.

Grizzly 45 · 27-07-2018 4:10pm

One man one letter BC...Could be anyone, unfortunately.A dozen or forty or more people signing an open letter is a whole different bucket of cod.

BattleCorp · 27-07-2018 4:21pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

One man one letter BC...Could be anyone, unfortunately.A dozen or forty or more people signing an open letter is a whole different bucket of cod.

I've no problem signing such a letter.

gunny123 · 27-07-2018 4:39pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I've no problem signing such a letter.

+1

Wexshot1 · 27-07-2018 4:42pm

gunny123 wrote: »

+1

+1

gunny123 · 27-07-2018 4:45pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

One man one letter BC...Could be anyone, unfortunately.A dozen or forty or more people signing an open letter is a whole different bucket of cod.

Rather then people in the other shooting orgs with a bit of power just ignoring the scovi, why are they not banding together and telling the minister and his people, bluntly, that the scovi are chancers, and are about as popular with the shooting public as a dead rat in a swimming pool ?

Cass · 27-07-2018 6:28pm

yubabill1 wrote: »

My usual sarcasm, there, Cass - always useful to get a conversation going.

Got it. Was not correcting you merely continuing the debate.

My own opinion is the authorities have a very low opinion of Irish shooters, possibly owing to media coverage of mass shootings by nutjobs.

Nothing so grand. They simply don't want civilians with firearms.

I've said this before and some say its not relevant to this forum our sport, but it got its start the same way and in America. This country was founded at the end of a barrel. Firearms were used for feeding your family and while we are not fighting an independence war or having to shoot to stay alive, its a tradition that is far, FAR older than the state and because they are old does not mean they can be ignored or should be walled away because the soy-boy, fluid gender, open border, hypocritical so and so's don't see a "need" for them. :mad:

BattleCorp wrote: »

I can't see the Minister rescinding the dealer S.I.

I wouldn't say a waste, but you're right on this. It'll never happen.

gunny123 wrote: »

But he might have gotten the message that the sc represents no one apart from the couple of chancers in it.

Its a start, a good one, and it needs to built on now by us, the rest of the shooting community. Show solidarity to the RFDs by supporting the 99% that were NOT consulted.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Why dont we just put together an open letter to Min Stanton .........

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It needs to be a group effort for it to have any weight,...........

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

One man one letter BC....

Absolutely to all the above.

gunny123 · 27-07-2018 6:37pm

Cass wrote: »

Nothing so grand. They simply don't want civilians with firearms.

I've said this before and some say its not relevant to this forum our sport, but it got its start the same way and in America. This country was founded at the end of a barrel. Firearms were used for feeding your family and while we are not fighting an independence war or having to shoot to stay alive, its a tradition that is far, FAR older than the state and because they are old does not mean they can be ignored or should be walled away because the soy-boy, fluid gender, open border, hypocritical so and so's don't see a "need" for them. :mad:

Sadly Cass the soy-boys are running the country now, look at who the president and the taoiseach are, two of the biggest virtue signallers in Europe. WE'RE DOOMED, DOOMED I TELL YA.

yubabill · 27-07-2018 7:14pm

Cass wrote: »

I've said this before and some say its not relevant to this forum our sport, but it got its start the same way and in America. This country was founded at the end of a barrel. Firearms were used for feeding your family and while we are not fighting an independence war or having to shoot to stay alive, its a tradition that is far, FAR older than the state and because they are old does not mean they can be ignored or should be walled away because the soy-boy, fluid gender, open border, hypocritical so and so's don't see a "need" for them. :mad:

Unfortunately, the sandal-wearing types are hell-bent on erasing things like culture and tradition (unless they are foreign, which are regarded as sacrosanct) so the tradition in shooting counts for nought in powerful circles.

The biggest disadvantage we have is that we are lumped-in with drug dealers and gun crime in the popular psyche, but for some reason the non-shooting citizen does not perceive their uncle in the gun club as a mass-shooting nutter looking for any excuse to wreak havoc in a primary school.

Fear of the unknown, I suppose. I get the impression that this disjointed thinking extends right to the top.

The world has become a small place and mass shootings in the US and elsewhere where crazy people can get access to guns degrade the public perception of shooters in Ireland, where firearms, shooters and shooting are treated very differently.

Cass · 27-07-2018 7:23pm

Irish Times picking up on the story. Not saying i agree with everything in the article, but i'm not "on the front" so i don't know the true effect.

berettaman · 27-07-2018 11:11pm

gunny123 wrote: »

But he might have gotten the message that the sc represents no one apart from the couple of chancers in it.

To the best of my knowledge the minister was informed a long time ago that SCOVI represented no one but themselves.

Claims otherwise are disingenuous..

berettaman · 27-07-2018 11:20pm

yubabill wrote: »

Unfortunately, the sandal-wearing types are hell-bent on erasing things like culture and tradition (unless they are foreign, which are regarded as sacrosanct) so the tradition in shooting counts for nought in powerful circles.

The biggest disadvantage we have is that we are lumped-in with drug dealers and gun crime in the popular psyche, but for some reason the non-shooting citizen does not perceive their uncle in the gun club as a mass-shooting nutter looking for any excuse to wreak havoc in a primary school.

Fear of the unknown, I suppose. I get the impression that this disjointed thinking extends right to the top.

The world has become a small place and mass shootings in the US and elsewhere where crazy people can get access to guns degrade the public perception of shooters in Ireland, where firearms, shooters and shooting are treated very differently.

The Tofu eating tree hugging bunny lovers are only a part of the problem. They are handy for the outrage over us having a different view of what is a sport-shooting, what is beautiful- a firearm that shoots straight like it's an extension of your body, and what is fresh food-game.

The real issue is the powers that be who want less firearms in license holders possession and SCOVI who want to commercialize the few that remain.

We have to do all that we can to protect our sport.

Grizzly 45 · 28-07-2018 11:20am

I'm more worried about the unelected suits&ties sitting on their asses in Brussels, led by a chronic alcoholic former petty bureaucrat who is now ia virtual dictator of Europe and is unremovable from his position than any bunch of Soy boys, and women or Menwo's who have knitted their undergarments out of their partners beard hair.:p

Our lot are now nothing more than a glorified county council running the country, where all big decisions are now made for them in Brussels, and that suits them just fine! Brussels is where all the grown-up decisions are made,and their excuse is "Shure its EU law.Nuthin we can do about it lads!"AKA buck pass it back to Brussels. Luckily there is now an organisation that is a registered lobby group, and is more or less well funded and has a track record of ass-kicking in Brussels that is pro grun.:) So at least our very early warning radar will work to alert us of anything over the horizion.Now ,we need our close support to actually work,IE our national bodies and without chancers trying to hijack the show.

Grizzly 45 · 28-07-2018 11:35am

Cass wrote: »

Irish Times picking up on the story. Not saying i agree with everything in the article, but i'm not "on the front" so i don't know the true effect.

I think the GD of Ireland are waking up to the fact that the price of liberty [or keeping your business profitable] is eternal vigilance,and not let "others" deal with things on your uninterested behalf?

"smuggling" tho?? Do anything possible to give it a "shady image" why don't ya ?:rolleyes: A statement like that from the gun dealers was badly thought out and worded.
It's called the" free movement of trade and goods within the EU, preventing monopolies in member states". if the legislation allows me to purchase an item in another EU country and I comply with both countries possession and use laws,why do I need a middleman to conduct and profit from the deal?

The only thing in favour of having a GD in the equation anymore is that you can go and see the gun in reality and get a feel for it.Its very hard to buy things like guns or suits off a spec sheet. So that is where we do still need them.

gunny123 · 28-07-2018 2:00pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I think the GD of Ireland are waking up to the fact that the price of liberty [or keeping your business profitable] is eternal vigilance,and not let "others" deal with things on your uninterested behalf?

"smuggling" tho?? Do anything possible to give it a "shady image" why don't ya ?:rolleyes: A statement like that from the gun dealers was badly thought out and worded.
It's called the" free movement of trade and goods within the EU, preventing monopolies in member states". if the legislation allows me to purchase an item in another EU country and I comply with both countries possession and use laws,why do I need a middleman to conduct and profit from the deal?

The only thing in favour of having a GD in the equation anymore is that you can go and see the gun in reality and get a feel for it.Its very hard to buy things like guns or suits off a spec sheet. So that is where we do still need them.

Yes i thought that was a stupid own goal too, calling it smuggling. I bought firearms in the north several times, usually pistols because there was no one stocking pistols down here, which is an issue they should be looking to amend.

dto001 · 28-07-2018 3:50pm

Hi Lads,
I've been trying to keep up with this and it seems this has gotten out of control with all sorts of bodies claiming to bespeaking for/doing things in the name of country pursuits etc. Does anyone remember the group that stood up to the greens a few years ago (I can't think of their name FACE or something) should this or something like this is resurrected to put a stop to all this crap. As I see the OPW are destroying rivers in the name of fish runs and the IFI is sitting by doing nothing. Then you have the NPWS trying to make up their own rules (with an input form some of the sprotmans groups) and you have people talking all sorts of crap about hunters in general.
Maybe a group which is answerable to its members can unite the whole countryside pursuits community and actually go on radio shows TV debates etc and fight in our corner for once as I'm sure there are a lot of people who not only hunt/shoot but Fish as well and Maybe just Maybe this will show the government how many people actually enjoy and participate in shooting/hunting and fishing and they may take some heed for once.
Excuse the rant but the whole thing P@$$'s me off
cheers

gunny123 · 28-07-2018 4:00pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I'm more worried about the unelected suits&ties sitting on their asses in Brussels, led by a chronic alcoholic former petty bureaucrat who is now ia virtual dictator of Europe and is unremovable from his position than any bunch of Soy boys, and women or Menwo's who have knitted their undergarments out of their partners beard hair.:p

Our lot are now nothing more than a glorified county council running the country, where all big decisions are now made for them in Brussels, and that suits them just fine! Brussels is where all the grown-up decisions are made,and their excuse is "Shure its EU law.Nuthin we can do about it lads!"AKA buck pass it back to Brussels. Luckily there is now an organisation that is a registered lobby group, and is more or less well funded and has a track record of ass-kicking in Brussels that is pro grun.:) So at least our very early warning radar will work to alert us of anything over the horizion.Now ,we need our close support to actually work,IE our national bodies and without chancers trying to hijack the show.

Junker you sort of know where you are with, but his appointee (illegally) Martin Selmayr is the sort of individual who is completely ruthless, you do not know what he would get up to.

dto001 · 28-07-2018 6:57pm

I just thought of the name "RISE"

Wexshot1 · 28-07-2018 7:01pm

dto001 wrote: »

I just thought of the name "RISE"

Unfortunately a lot of the same crew that went on to form SC

dto001 · 28-07-2018 7:07pm

I just found their website and seen some of the supporters and I agree it is probably alot of the same crew but surely something along the lines of this could be done, as it worked before, but this time keep it going and create havoc for the above groups but at the same time be accountable to the members and consult with members before committing to anything if you get my drift.
:O

Wexshot1 · 28-07-2018 7:15pm

dto001 wrote: »

I just found their website and seen some of the supporters and I agree it is probably alot of the same crew but surely something along the lines of this could be done, as it worked before, but this time keep it going and create havoc for the above groups but at the same time be accountable to the members and consult with members before committing to anything if you get my drift.
:O

If the likes of the IFA / NARGC / Countryside Alliance etc !! Came together we might have some hope.
Trouble is they all have their own problems to deal with and have enough in their plates as it is.
The other fact is that there is so much corruption in politics that I reckon we’d be flogging a dead horse unless we had lots of money to dangle in front of the donkeys.

Grizzly 45 · 28-07-2018 7:17pm

dto001 wrote: »

Hi Lads,
. Does anyone remember the group that stood up to the greens a few years ago (I can't think of their name FACE or something) should this or something like this is resurrected to put a stop to all this crap.

Federation of European Hunters[or whatever its French moniker is].Is primarily concerned with hunting in the EU,and TBH has got rather slow and soft on alot of issues.It was fast asleep in bed until about 12 weeks after the Paris terror attacks,when the EU was pushing for a semi-auto rifle ban, and only woke up to the fact that it did concern them,as many of their members use semi-auto rifles for hunting on the continent.:rolleyes: They have been plagued with "old gaurd" problems too, which has gained the anti-hunting side some wins on things like importing trophies and strengthening the CITEs rules because of it. tHe NARGC is affiliated to them,but I wouldnt rely on FACe being much interested in irish affairs of the problems we have here.

Maybe a group which is answerable to its members can unite the whole countryside pursuits community and actually go on radio shows TV debates etc and fight in our corner for once as I'm sure there are a lot of people who not only hunt/shoot but Fish as well and Maybe just Maybe this will show the government how many people actually enjoy and participate in shooting/hunting and fishing and they may take some heed for once.
Excuse the rant but the whole thing P@$$'s me off
cheer

That's what the SC SHOULD have been until all and sundry decided they,and they alone, were the most High Poobah in the organisation and only their decrees carried the word of law..

You know yourself, the first thing on any Irish organisations agenda, is the split. If you can create that sort of an organisation in Ireland that stays unified, you will have a force to be reckoned with.

solarwinds · 28-07-2018 7:51pm

In my experience of committes/groups in ireland is that a lot are set up by good people with the best of intentions to get things done and to promote change. But inevitably and i have seen it happen all to often, there will always be at least one person with an agenda sitting quietly in the back just waiting. Then when the time is right they get into a position of power and gradually steer the committe round to their way of thinking. I have seen this to ruin more than one group. There will always be that type of individual and i dont think that will ever change.
One possibility is a complete change at the top every 2 years with a ban put on the sitting board to prevent re election but the downside is the high rate of turnover of people.
I dont know how a group could be set up and run honestly here.

dto001 · 28-07-2018 8:13pm

I know where you're coming from its always the same but something has to be done or we will all have to join cults and dance around fires kissing butterflies :D in all seriousness its only going to get worse so we have to have something in place to prevent all outdoor sports being destroyed.

gunny123 · 28-07-2018 8:20pm

I think the best bet is the nargc leading the pack of smaller orgs. They are the biggest shooting org themselves, and have experience of some of the personalities in the scovi.

dto001 · 29-07-2018 9:45am

Yes but the problem with the NARGC (which I have nothing against) is that it also had a hand (not all members) in getting us to where we are today, it looks like they are changing but it happened once so whats to stop it happening again? Also I'm not seeing much activity from them on this. The last update was in February and surely with all this about changing the caliber of rifles for deer they should be on top of it straight away.
(this is not an NARGC bashing just my thoughts)

Cass · 29-07-2018 10:53am

gunny123 wrote: »

I think the best bet is the nargc leading the pack of smaller orgs. They are the biggest shooting org themselves, and have experience of some of the personalities in the scovi.

No.

The NARGC are good at representing hunting clubs and hunting interests. They have no clue about Long range, pistol shooting, Olympic stuff, etc. Each discipline has its own representative body and they are all represented on the FCP. The problem is the sub-groups which does not include the other bodies of the FCP and these are vested interest groups where they don't face the same criticism of their proposals because most people n the room are of the same opinion which is usually self serving and not in the best interest of the sport or the shooting community.

Its how we "got" the proposals by the deer alliance for deer stalking, the recent RFD SI, etc.

solarwinds wrote: »

One possibility is a complete change at the top every 2 years with a ban put on the sitting board to prevent re election but the downside is the high rate of turnover of people.

One thing that HAS to happen is to stop supporting the people and the groups that do this [like the so called coalition]. Remember no shooting group/body is an actual "Lawful" thing. IOW they have been self appointed and while about 7 or so have got invitations from the Minister and some funding from the sports council its not something either the Minister or Sports Council would stand by if challenged. IOW the neither Ministers office nor the sports council would "take a side" if a dispute among the groups/bodies arose. They don't care which group they deal with.

dto001 wrote: »

Yes but the problem with the NARGC (which I have nothing against) is that it also had a hand (not all members) in getting us to where we are today, it looks like they are changing but it happened once so whats to stop it happening again?

Yup.

The NARGC have a lot to answer for in allowing their "leadership" to run amok for so many years. They almost destroyed the FCP with a walk out, and they were directly responsible for the creation of the so called coalition. They have since shed the excess weight and are working to better their corner of the sport. So long as they don't allow the same crap to happen again, and focus on the important things, they'll have my support.

dto001 wrote:

Also I'm not seeing much activity from them on this. The last update was in February and surely with all this about changing the caliber of rifles for deer they should be on top of it straight away.
(this is not an NARGC bashing just my thoughts)

I've said this many times before.

The table thumpers are the ones who make the most noise but do the least. You all know who i'm talking about. They make a huge fuss, walk out of meetings, make unbelievable accusations in the media or on their websites, and are always quick to be in front of the camera.

The other groups are happy to be working, quietly, in the background and actually getting the work done.

Grizzly 45 · 29-07-2018 11:53am

Cass wrote: »

No.

.

Yup.

The NARGC have a lot to answer for in allowing their "leadership" to run amok for so many years. They almost destroyed the FCP with a walk out, and they were directly responsible for the creation of the so-called coalition

.

And then some...Another reason we don't have reloading of ammo here.Was thrown to the wolves along with IPSC and cowboy action shooting by a certain individual.

grassroot1 · 29-07-2018 10:05pm

yes and trying to close that Pandora's box has been extremely difficult.

Sparks · 29-07-2018 10:20pm

solarwinds wrote: »

One possibility is a complete change at the top every 2 years with a ban put on the sitting board to prevent re election but the downside is the high rate of turnover of people.

That is precisely what was done by the SSAI to stop the infighting; the SSAI was shut down and the FISA formed in its place, with the entire committee to be the committee of each one of the constituent groups, in turn, for six months apiece.
Six months after the this was done, it was handed over to the constituent body with the longest record of shouting and as far as I can tell, it has been untouched since without any work done or progress made or communication undertaken with the powers that be.

Some problems just aren't structural.

ps. Guys, leave off on the tree-hugging hippie bunnielovers would you? The worst damage I've seen done to shooting in this country over the last thirty years wasn't done by one of my fellow tree-huggers and their consentual rabbit life partners after a delightful tofu salad, and it wasn't even done by a TD, Senator or councillor, it wasn't even done by a member of the Garda Ballistics Unit; it was done by people who hold firearms certificates and claimed to have our very best interests at heart and who were willing to fight to the last breath to defend our interests, which of course they knew better than we did and of course they were the only men who could do the job, and we all know how that story went and is still going.

Give me the likes of our current president three times a day and twice on Sunday over that, thankyouverymuch (our taoiseach you can keep, not because of any modernism associated with his PR image but because he was a ******* before all of that and remains so to this day with his "party of people who get up early" and their nonsense). Anyone who'll queue up at an ATM with the rest of the little people and who'll still quote greek at Boris Johnson until Johnson has to admit he wasn't really paying attention in Eton, well I have to like a guy like that at least a little bit, even if I'd disagree with him over other stuff.

cavan shooter · 30-07-2018 11:54am

I can honestly tell you a lot of people in the NARGC want to focus on their core sports. The NARGC was trying to become an NRA of some description and over the years ordinary members where asking themselves why are we getting involved in this, what has this got to do with us.

For too long ever little whisper from the Gardai etc was quickly followed by "this is the thin end of a wedge " and has to be stopped and off ran the NARGC to fight the fight for the shooting man, , while the ordinary shooting man is sitting there going whats this about.... i know nothing about this.

Cass · 30-07-2018 3:14pm

Sparks wrote: »

Guys, leave off on the tree-hugging hippie bunnielovers would you?

Erm, nope, but okay on here.

My post in the Off Topic thread regarding Gavin Duffy running for President highlights the attitude of the general population. He is under fire and having to defend himself for his involvement in hunting. Not asking about policies, aims, goals, political stance on certain topics. Just hunting.

The comment left by most on every firearm/hunting related article in the Indo, journal, etc also shows the prevailing attitude of the majority. They attack what they don't understand, won't listen to reasoned debate, and refuse to research the topic and educate themselves. I'm not asking for them all to "come over to the dark side", but for God sake just understand what it is you are attacking and why. Not simply as a virtue signaling/public relations exercise.

I don't want to go off topic, but this thread is itself a sign that our own are the cause of where we are because as you said they have done more damage than anyone else or any other group could possibly do.

The thing is we are under enough of a threat from the select few within our own ranks that seek to privatize and exploit the situation for themselves, but if anything arose which had to be put to a public vote we would lose so fast and hard because of the attitude of the great unwashed (represented by the elected officials we have in office, and is also evident by the laws we have seen enacted over the years including the ridiculous RFD SI).

So while i agree the names used might be seen as petty, vindictive or simply unnecessary, but they are a consequence of frustration born from the fact others hold the power over a sport they are not involved in and simply don't care to understand.

Sparks · 30-07-2018 3:36pm

Gavin Duffy has more than enough people criticising him because of his policies Cass - like the "I'm not a political candidate" line despite having worked for *both* FF and FG (he worked on Varadkar's leadership campaign), like having said on twitter that he was willing to cross a picket line, and a few other things. Meanwhile the Times was happily defending him this morning via Lucinda Creighton's column and there's a fair few others who'll do so as well as an academic exercise; but he's thrown himself into a daft situation where every major party bar SF is backing Higgins and he's not even managed to get a nomination yet. That's... probably not maximising his chances of winning. Not to mention, he's written opinion pieces on a fair few topics over the years for the Wicklow People and I'm guessing we have 2-3 days before *that* archive gets dug through and some badly aged stuff starts doing the rounds.

And yeah, I do see some people saying we shouldn't vote for Duffy because of the hunting - but leaving aside the people who are making obvious jokes, look at the ones who are *seriously* saying that he's HAI and Hiiggins was listed by ICABS so vote Higgins. Those people are linked to ICABS and neither you nor I would trust anything they said about anything. They're just plain noise. They're not even proper bunnylovers because those are the eejits who released a small tidal wave of mink into the ecosystem doing a fair amount of damage to said bunnys. They're the kind of vegetarians who don't see a problem with eating cod.

And I don't think we should go easy in an effort to appease people, because that doedsn't work. I think we should go easy because these generalisations *literally include me* about 90% of the time (I'm being selfish here, I know, I'm small that way). I *am* left-wing, because I grew up dirt poor and don't happen to think that things like free education and free healthcare and social welfare are bad; I happen to think they're lifesaving safety nets and the quality of them is a good metric of how good a society is. I don't harp on about it much because this isn't a politics forum, but it's still a bit jarring to hear how lefties are the problem with firearms legislation after twenty-odd years of literally watching people who are definitely not lefties and definitely identify as shooters while they run our sports into a grinder again and again and again, doing so much more damage than any member of ICABS or any advocate against private firearms ownership ever dreamed of doing.

I think we shouldn't call them names because every breath pointed in their direction is oxygen on a fire.

Even if half the time the names aren't wrong.

Grizzly 45 · 30-07-2018 3:53pm

cavan shooter wrote: »

I can honestly tell you a lot of people in the NARGC want to focus on their core sports. The NARGC was trying to become an NRA of some description and over the years ordinary members were asking themselves why are we getting involved in this, what has this got to do with us.

For too long ever little whisper from the Gardai etc was quickly followed by "this is the thin end of a wedge " and has to be stopped and off ran the NARGC to fight the fight for the shooting man, while the ordinary shooting man is sitting there going whats this about.... I know nothing about this.

The joys of cross-pollinated hunting/target shooting membership, and stating that you will fight any legislation or refusal of members firearms applications.:pac:

cavan shooter · 30-07-2018 4:50pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The joys of cross-pollinated hunting/target shooting membership, and stating that you will fight any legislation or refusal of members firearms applications.:pac:

I have no issue fighting the good fight when its needed and I agree with the cross pollination and how hunters could also be into clay shooting into pistols etc etc. But it got silly the NARGC was always fighting with the Guards, at least now the NARGC and guards have an open channel to each other.....(Remember the SC put in a complaint about it and the illegal claiming it was illegal or some other petty crap.) Now at least things can be teased out before we run to court.

Grizzly 45 · 30-07-2018 8:45pm

Indeed hopefully both the PTB and shooters can talk before doing the DC shuffle. But it took a lot of blood, sweat, tears and money by people outside NARGC as well for us to get to this point too. Trouble is or was , taking on some unwinnable, or very dodgy of success cases that almost bankrupted the NARGC.But was the option? Being sued for breach of contract and false advertising by members?

Cass · 30-07-2018 10:15pm

The Stresiand effect (or Doherty effect to keep it irish) is springing to mind right about now.

Sparks wrote: »

Gavin Duffy has more than enough people criticising him because of his policies Cass -...............

I'm not defending the man and to be honest i know very little of him, nor do i wish to. I think the entire idea of the "office of the president" is a joke. It's a ceremonial position that costs the state €5 million per year, is a rubber stamp for legislation, and considering the unelected leader of the Government, along with every other Minister, do their fair share of jet setting i fail to see the need for a president. Also the Seanad but that is another story.

The point i was raising was if someone that thinks their a different gender, or someone who was gay were put under the same scrutiny and attacked for those beliefs just because they were running for public office there would be uproar.

You can have your own beliefs on any issue you want, i'm not trying to shut you up, or anyone else for that matter. However i am sick to my back teeth of these leftists that want to turn every aspect of the country into some sort of Eutopia where things like shooting have no place nor does the idea of firearm ownership. The same people that that say everyone is free to pursue what they want, unless of course its something they don't agree with, then it's "how dare you".

Our politicans don't need excuses to curtail our sport. The so called coalition is an abhorrent excuse of a representative group that only got its foot in the door through almost destroying the FCP, walking away, being thught up by the same peole as an "alternate FCP" and then gained strength through the support of the nasrpc and lots of table banging. They are making secret pacts and inspiring others to do the same to either curtail, privatize, or do away with swathes of our sport and (this is where the leftist mentality comes into it) the Government seizes any ground it can to take yet more from us knowing full well public opinion is not on our side.

In the last few years we've had gay marriage, abortion referendum, etc. and i'm not getting into the pros/cons of those topics here, just naming them to show that Ireland is moving at a fast enough pace as if there was some race to try and overturn decades of what is now classed as backward thinking. This includes civilian firearm ownership. Granted it may not be high on the list of priorities, but if its not our own, then it's the TDs influenced by the prevailing public attitude, and last but not least Europe where we face yet more threats to our sport because of events that fall well and truly outside the remit of sports shooting and that includes hunting not just paper punching. There is a serious leftist (not liberal) attitude that is making a sport that has for the most part been there but never seen all the more difficult to maintain.

I can't and could not be arsed trying to convince a non shooter to understand our sport. The bigger concern right now is the topic of this thread, the so called coalition. It's continued existence is an affront to me, but for some unknown reason the nasrpc and other small groups continue to support it.

It needs to be stopped and then disbanded by any means.

gunny123 · 31-07-2018 12:54am

Cass wrote: »

You can have your own beliefs on any issue you want, i'm not trying to shut you up, or anyone else for that matter. However i am sick to my back teeth of these leftists that want to turn every aspect of the country into some sort of Eutopia where things like shooting have no place nor does the idea of firearm ownership.

I had to laugh recently when Katherine Zappone or whatever her name is wanted the number of tickets to the popes visit, capped in case it caused a right wing surge/uprising :rolleyes:.

Yes Ireland has moved on, but i think a lot of it is virtue signalling on the international stage "Look at us, how right on and with it we are". Rather than any actual concern about the issues.

berettaman · 31-07-2018 8:04am

Cass wrote: »

The Stresiand effect (or Doherty effect to keep it irish) is springing to mind right about now.

I can't and could not be arsed trying to convince a non shooter to understand our sport. The bigger concern right now is the topic of this thread, the so called coalition. It's continued existence is an affront to me, but for some unknown reason the nasrpc and other small groups continue to support it.

It needs to be stopped and then disbanded by any means.

That is the nub of it. The Sports Coalition of vested interests is a shadow of what it was intended to be, and the smart ones pulling the strings have already started to get their feet under the table elsewhere.

NASRPC and Fissta need to have a look at themselves in my opinion. If you let them, SCOVI, use your logo you are giving them credence. It is as simple as that.

I have outrage fatigue.

Reading the Journal the ICABS are "outraged" that Duffy is running for present. As a citizen of the republic over the age of 35 he has every right to run.

Imagine if, say, Irish council against hurling made a statement that it was outraged that Henry Shefflin was running for President.

To me it is as simple as that. If you do not understand something then why are you against it. I am sick to the back teeth of people with blue hair and piercings telling me that hunting is not natural.:mad:

10,000 years ago Tesco didn't deliver..rant over.

Grizzly 45 · 31-07-2018 11:38am

ICABS is "outraged" at everything anyway on a daily basis.
They have to try and make media capital out of every event because they are in reality a non-entity of old dears and frozen-faced beta males.
15,254 likes of their FB page, 15,00 following their page.
Dublin /Meath hunt sabs 1.512 followers.
NARA 9,402 likes and 9,236 followers.
Sounds impressive, doesn't it?
Until you go and see that these are Global likes and followers.

But when it comes to where the rubber meets the road, where the Hell are they when it comes to putting bodies on the streets if they have such claimed numbers?

It's like the US elections in 2016. Everyone said Trump wouldn't win and left it to someone else to vote. Irrespective of the electoral college system...[Which works fine when a Democrat president is voted in, but is outdated and archaic and needs changing when a Republican wins... Strange that] So if these groups have this strength s they would profess from their fakebook followers...Why isn't field sports banned and we are all eating tofu down in our local re-education centre? Fakebook strength is not much good in the really real world when you need bodies in the election booth or where it counts.

We OTOH, need to keep doing three things, Vote,in our organisations,and on local, national and EU level for those who would support us and turn up the volume whenever there is an attack on us. We have shown we can punch above our weight class here in Ireland over the last few years with the right leadership and directions. Our biggest enemies are ourselves and apathy, we need to do a "night of the long knives" on those who would seek to profit for personal gain, and make it be known that those in charge of our sport are there for a limited term, and will be held to account for their decisions actions and inactions.

Whether we like it or not,if you shoot a gun here or anywhere in the Western World anymore,you have to get active in promoting your sport, win hearts&minds, and we have to get political.,on a local, national and EU level.

Grizzly 45 · 31-07-2018 11:45am

Anyhoo.
Following all of this ...what IS the current status with who or whom is sitting on the FCP? What has happened to this proposed Firearms something, Arbitration Authority? and what is being currently discussed or what sort of problems could be discussed?

dto001 · 31-07-2018 1:11pm

Grizzly 45 wrote:

We OTOH, need to keep doing three things, Vote,in our organisations,and on local, national and EU level for those who would support us and turn up the volume whenever there is an attack on us. We have shown we can punch above our weight class here in Ireland over the last few years with the right leadership and directions. Our biggest enemies are ourselves and apathy, we need to do a "night of the long knives" on those who would seek to profit for personal gain, and make it be known that those in charge of our sport are there for a limited term, and will be held to account for their decisions actions and inactions.

Whether we like it or not,if you shoot a gun here or anywhere in the Western World anymore,you have to get active in promoting your sport, win hearts&minds, and we have to get political.,on a local, national and EU level.

The Questions are How? and Who?
Maybe a list of politicians who support us should be made available and all groups should start promoting the various sports because the biggest advertisement we have is not running this year (the Game fair) and in fairness to the NARGC they seem to be pushing clay shoots on their pages I'm not sure what the other groups are doing and its a start.
But even if the various associations etc. don't agree with each other on various issues they must at least agree that all sides of shooting are under threat at the moment from all sides especially from outraged keyboard warriors on Facebook and the media. So they should start to promote the sport and show that we are not criminals we are law abiding citizens who enjoy a sport and actually look after the countryside (there are always bad apples in every sport)
There used to be a Guard around where I grew up and he used to ask the boys out lamping foxes if they'd seen anything suspicious going on and he's have all the info he needed. And wasn't it a couple of hunters who stopped that fella with the girl in the boot of his car in Wicklow, if hunting was banned then there would be a different out come to that case.
All shooting/fishing/Hunting sports should be promoted in a good way that anti from limerick seems to get an awful lot of air time and there is never any proper rebuttal I think i heard one fella once saying that all foxes should be killed as they are vermin which does not help at all.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Sports Coalition boycotts FCP

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County