Wolves in France

John_Rambo · 13-07-2018 12:29AM

dodderangler wrote: »

Kerry? They'd wipe out the reds

Imagine they targeted the silkas first and reduced the weak reds, forcing the healthy red population upland out of harms way?

dodderangler · 13-07-2018 12:35AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Would they not target the silka first and force the reds upland out of harms way?

Doubt it. If they're Canadian grey timber wolves they'll always go for the bigger prey.

John_Rambo · 13-07-2018 12:39AM

dodderangler wrote: »

Doubt it. If they're Canadian grey timber wolves they'll always go for the bigger prey.

Sorry, I edited my post whilst you were quoting me.

But nobody mentioned introducing non-indigionous Canadian grey wolves. Again, we're talking about the European wolf. From Europe. In Europe. A long time from now. And no wolf will go for bigger, stronger prey that will do more damage when there's more vulnerable smaller prey available.

laoch na mona · 13-07-2018 10:00AM

grassroot1 wrote: »

No your quite right there are no studies done but then why would there be those re introducing species are not going to study any negative effects of there release.
It logical that more predators increase the pressure on prey species but logic does not count I suppose.

actually scientists like to study everything to get accurate data on environmental impact,

Grizzly 45 · 13-07-2018 11:34AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Imagine they targeted the silkas first and reduced the weak reds, forcing the healthy red population upland out of harms way?

There is a very intelligent[more or less] apex predator who could do this too without causing lots of trouble.He is called a human hunter.:)

Apiarist · 13-07-2018 11:57AM

There are more that 2000 wolves in Belarus, compared to 360 in France. However, I do not recall any reports of wolves attacking people, there may be an incident with a hunter hunting a wolf at worst. The most dangerous wild animal in Belarusian forests is a wild pig. If you encounter a wild piglet, do not try to pet it and climb the first tree you can find, or risk its mother tear you to pieces.

Eddie B · 13-07-2018 05:38PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

actually scientists like to study everything to get accurate data on environmental impact,

The Vincent Wildlife Trust has said that experts have found that the Irish pine marten are practically vegitarian. How accurate is this information?:rolleyes:

John_Rambo · 13-07-2018 06:19PM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There is a very intelligent[more or less] apex predator who could do this too without causing lots of trouble.He is called a human hunter.

Ha! Well played Grizzly!

Eddie B wrote: »

The Vincent Wildlife Trust has said that experts have found that the Irish pine marten are practically vegitarian. How accurate is this information?:rolleyes:

I doubt that's true. Do you have a link?

Eddie B · 13-07-2018 06:24PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ha! Well played Grizzly!

I doubt that's true. Do you have a link?

https://iwt.ie/citizen-scientists-laois-bust-myths/

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/could-pine-martens-be-mostly-vegetarian-research-suggests-so-35179527.html

John_Rambo · 13-07-2018 06:45PM

Eddie B wrote: »

https://iwt.ie/citizen-scientists-laois-bust-myths/

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/could-pine-martens-be-mostly-vegetarian-research-suggests-so-35179527.html

Thought as much. Neither of them claim the Pine Martin is vegetarian. They both say the pine martin mainly eats nuts, berries, veg etc... but is certainly not a veggie.

Eddie B · 13-07-2018 06:59PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Thought as much. Neither of them claim the Pine Martin is vegetarian. They both say the pine martin mainly eats nuts, berries, veg etc... but is certainly not a veggie.

Those articles are biased. Easily influence the gullable.

John_Rambo · 13-07-2018 07:44PM

I owe you an apology Eddie, you said "practically vegetarian" I missed the practical bit. I thought you were trying to say scientist are saying that pine martins are pure vegetarians.

Eddie B wrote: »

Those articles are biased. Easily influence the gullable.

They're science articles and to be honest they're balanced. just because the pine martin has been proven to survive mainly on nuts, berries, roots etc.. doesn't mean they're not excellent hunters. Both articles quote the live prey of the pine martin.

Nothing really biased about them. Just science, research and fact, one of which was written by lad that farms beef and sheep in Roscommon.

Eddie B · 13-07-2018 08:11PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I owe you an apology Eddie, you said "practically vegetarian" I missed the practical bit. I thought you were trying to say scientist are saying that pine martins are pure vegetarians.

They're science articles and to be honest they're balanced. just because the pine martin has been proven to survive mainly on nuts, berries, roots etc.. doesn't mean they're not excellent hunters. Both articles quote the live prey of the pine martin.

Nothing really biased about them. Just science, research and fact, one of which was written by lad that farms beef and sheep in Roscommon.

In my opinion they are. It was a counter attack on the Looney politician from Longford who said that blood thirsty pine marten are killing lambs in the Midlands. Another biased article. Two wrongs don't make a right though, do they.

Your average dry dog food has more cerial in it than meat. Would you say a dog is mainly vegitarian? Get outa here!! A headline of an article is what catches a person's eye. It's what people remember. Those articles are misleading, and well you know it.

Birdnuts · 13-07-2018 08:37PM

dodderangler wrote: »

Doubt it. If they're Canadian grey timber wolves they'll always go for the bigger prey.

I'd be more worried about the idiots cross breeding these wolves with domestic dogs and selling the pups online:( - I read recently that these hybrids have now been banned in Italy

Grizzly 45 · 13-07-2018 09:31PM

victor8600 wrote: »

There are more that 2000 wolves in Belarus, compared to 360 in France. However, I do not recall any reports of wolves attacking people, there may be an incident with a hunter hunting a wolf at worst. The most dangerous wild animal in Belarusian forests is a wild pig. If you encounter a wild piglet, do not try to pet it and climb the first tree you can find, or risk its mother tear you to pieces.

Ahem...Cough!;) 2 men Belarus Jan 2nd 2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks

Grizzly 45 · 14-07-2018 08:04PM

The Armenian ambassador to the German Bundestag who are just discussing wolves in Germany reported that two children in Armenia in the Karabakh region age 4 and 10 were attacked and mauled by a wolf on May 28th 2018 have died in hospital.:(
http://www.outfox-world.de/blog/wolfsgeschichten-aus-polen-und-im-bundestag.html

Apiarist · 16-07-2018 08:44PM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Ahem...Cough!;) 2 men Belarus Jan 2nd 2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wolf_attacks

I stand corrected

Apparently rabid wolves are a bit of a problem.

Capercaillie · 20-07-2018 07:41AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's not. We've done it here in Ireland with the raptor re-intoduction program and it's been a success.

Red kite re-introduction successful. Golden eagle re-introduction has failed. Se-Eagle re-introduction is on verge of collapse.

Eddie B · 22-08-2018 07:58AM

blackpearl wrote: »

MOD SNIP.

Although you have a couple of decent arguments in your post, for the most part its nothing more than pure ignorance. First of all "the true hunting man" is not taking the law into his own hands. That's the sort of caveman attitude that do nothing positive for hunting in this country. We all know that habitat loss is the main reason why game birds are so low in most places. Yes predators put more pressure on game birds and other struggling wildlife, but we can only do what is lawfully possible to do, full stop.

Now what I do agree with, is the whole re-introduction idea. All these re-introductions lately are predatory birds and animals. They seem to have hierarchy to non predators. You will notice the trend on any wildlife program, any wildlife facebook page, or wildlife forum. Unfortunately for other struggling species, they aren't as popular, so maybe dont deserve the same respect.

What I don't get, and you hit on is, why spend so much money on reintroducing predator species, when so many other species are struggling. So now these species are put under even more pressure, with more predators to deal with. I suppose it's simply down to what I said earlier. Predators receive more respect. That is why you will have those looking for wolves and lynx to be reintroduced. Its the whole fairy story world idea, with no thought for consequences.

Capercaillie · 22-08-2018 11:02AM

Eddie B wrote: »

Although you have a couple of decent arguments in your post, for the most part its nothing more than pure ignorance. First of all "the true hunting man" is not taking the law into his own hands. That's the sort of caveman attitude that do nothing positive for hunting in this country. We all know that habitat loss is the main reason why game birds are so low in most places. Yes predators put more pressure on game birds and other struggling wildlife, but we can only do what is lawfully possible to do, full stop.

Now what I do agree with, is the whole re-introduction idea. All these re-introductions lately are predatory birds and animals. They seem to have hierarchy to non predators. You will notice the trend on any wildlife program, any wildlife facebook page, or wildlife forum. Unfortunately for other struggling species, they aren't as popular, so maybe dont deserve the same respect.

What I don't get, and you hit on is, why spend so much money on reintroducing predator species, when so many other species are struggling. So now these species are put under even more pressure, with more predators to deal with. I suppose it's simply down to what I said earlier. Predators receive more respect. That is why you will have those looking for wolves and lynx to be reintroduced. Its the whole fairy story world idea, with no thought for consequences.

Densities of raptors reintroduced are at low densities so would not have much of effect on prey species. Would agree however that resources would be better put into protecting species like red grouse, hen harrier, corncrake, twite etc!!

Cass · 23-08-2018 08:33AM

For the learning disabled a reminder.

The discussion of illegal activity is viewed the same as actual illegality on this forum and so by talking about it, whether done or not, will incur the same infraction as if you had done it.

What does that mean?

In short when you're told not to discuss illegal activity, don't. This forum, however people seem to view it, will not be a platform for tirades which condone illegal activity.

The name calling, insults, abusive and intolerant behaviour won't be accepted either.

Post have been removed as have anything that replied to or quoted it. Back on topic please.

John_Rambo · 23-08-2018 10:41PM

Capercaillie wrote: »

Densities of raptors reintroduced are at low densities so would not have much of effect on prey species. Would agree however that resources would be better put into protecting species like red grouse, hen harrier, corncrake, twite etc!!

Agreed, but the decimation of natural habitat is the enemy here, particularly the Corncrake. Not sure how we're going to address that. The raptor introduction projects will have little or no affect on rare or dying species, they're not going to concentrate they're hunting efforts on hard found prey... they'll naturally go for the easy found prey.

Very interesting thread.

Capercaillie · 24-08-2018 06:25AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Agreed, but the decimation of natural habitat is the enemy here, particularly the Corncrake. Not sure how we're going to address that. The raptor introduction projects will have little or no affect on rare or dying species, they're not going to concentrate they're hunting efforts on hard found prey... they'll naturally go for the easy found prey.

Very interesting thread.

For corncrake it is relatively simple. You can provide optimal habitat in small area (25 acres), mow late and control foxes. With wolves, eagles it is more difficult as you need large expansive areas of habitat.

dodderangler · 01-09-2018 07:38PM

At a wedding ATM and talking to a lad who lives in the hills where I hunt who said that he has two wild boar that frequently visit his garden and have done since 3 year ago.
I spotted these pig hybrid animals up there few year ago and I know one person who shot one. So they're still around that area.
Would a .223 be enough to drop them depending on the grain of bullet I use? He doesn't want to see them gone. He thinks they're cool despite the garden being destroyed but if they cross to my permission I'll take one. I only use 55gr boat tail or hollow point Remington. They're not pure bred wild boar so would a .223 55gr do the job if placed correctly in neck or heart area? I know where he lives and he has plenty of forestry behind him onto my permission.

Grizzly 45 · 01-09-2018 09:59PM

A question with many, many variables.
As they are feral pigs and not under the wildlife act remit,you could have away at them with 00 buckshot or slugs and be good to go if you wanted.TBH if you were able to get close enough,that would be a better option.
.223 is frankly,not enough gun for wild boar, on the continent you are starting with any cal with a number "3" starting off for boar.
So you will need the heaviest grain 223 you can get for a good kill and they will need to have some serious expansion as well.
You will need to be close as well,nothing over 50/60 meters.As you are going to need every last gram of energy to do this job.

Useful pic of w kill areas on a pig.But remember,those areas are well protected by thick hide and alot of muscle.
http://stockmarketresources.info/wild-hog-anatomy

Grizzly 45 · 01-09-2018 10:12PM

Oh yeah,just be careful if you have to do a followup thru a bad shot.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/04/hunter-dies-in-germany-after-wild-boar-he-was-trying-to-shoot-attacked-him

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Wolves in France

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