Wolves in France

CelticRambler · 02-07-2018 06:56PM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

... I'd be really intrested to know when a rabies epidemic was war gamed in Ireland??

There's no need to "war game" an epidemic because the chances of seeing an epidemic are miniscule, thanks to on-going (as in every single day) controls across Europe, and in particular at the most vulnerable Dover-Calais crossing.

The last real excercise that I have knowledge of was about three weeks ago (a mandated vet, Irish, working in France, surveiling a suspect French dog). Just because the Dept of Ag has a home in Kildare Street doesn't mean Irish vets aren't working for the good of the country in other territories.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

the French and Irish have a rather lassiez faire attitude to things anyway.Wonder what would have been the attitude if their kid had died from rabies??

She did, when she got home to France.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Your kids,your loss..Hope the Gendarmes and whtever other French organisation involved takes your side.

Haven't lost one yet (well, except to adulthood) ... In any case, I heard on the grapevine that the local Sergeant said he wished the natives reared the children the way I reared mine. :cool:

Grizzly 45 · 02-07-2018 08:23PM

dodderangler wrote: »

In saying that I certainly wouldn't want to come face to face with a pack. But European wolves are a lot different than the big Canadian grey wolf.
They're not much bigger than a coyote over in Europe

And like our foxes, they have become more aggressive and less human shy as they move into our cities and suburbs.So why wouldn't wolves, irrespective of size do the same eventually? All animals will graduate towards an easier food supply than the wild.It's logical as they want an easy life too. Probably the way we humans domesticated the wolf in the first place.

gctest50 · 02-07-2018 08:34PM

The problem here is you'd get some clowns feeding them
Then they'll have more baby wolves n stuff
Then said clown will get tired of feeding them

End up like foxes in the UK

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-mauled-in-bed-by-fox-im-traumatised-and-fear-i-would-contract-rabies-a3868586.html

A woman mauled in her bed by a fox today warned Londoners not to leave windows open in hot weather.

Jodie Nailard, 22, feared she would contract rabies after she woke to find the animal gnawing on her arm in her Clapham flat.

Grizzly 45 · 02-07-2018 08:43PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

There's no need to "war game" an epidemic because the chances of seeing an epidemic are miniscule,

I hate to say it,but that type of saying has been the famous last words of many in their respective fields of human endeavour. Miniscule doesn't mean impossible.What is the plan then if it does get into the Irish wildlife chain?? The Pentagon war gamed a global Zombie apocalypse once too. Granted it is even less likely as a rabies outbreak here,as well as being coincidently happening on Halloween..,but the fact that they did it shows that they don't consider it 100% impossible either.So why should we not consider the impossibility of being possible?
As the "RA" once said post Brighton,you have to be lucky al the time,we just have to be lucky once

The last real excercise that I have knowledge of was about three weeks ago (a mandated vet, Irish, working in France, surveiling a suspect French dog). Just because the Dept of Ag has a home in Kildare Street doesn't mean Irish vets aren't working for the good of the country in other territories.

yes ,most of us call it "work experiance":) ,or "further education" So we have a vet in France looking after a possible rabid dog?Ok,what happens when he comes home?If this was so miniscule a chance of occurrence,why do we have somone in France on the taxpayers dime learning about it?

Birdnuts · 02-07-2018 08:53PM

gctest50 wrote: »

The problem here is you'd get some clowns feeding them
Then they'll have more baby wolves n stuff
Then said clown will get tired of feeding them

End up like foxes in the UK

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-mauled-in-bed-by-fox-im-traumatised-and-fear-i-would-contract-rabies-a3868586.html

Don't worry - the wolves will nail them foxes:D;). On a more serious note you'll get less meso/generalist predators when you have apex predators present. When white settlers arrived on the American prairies and wiped out wolves(along with the Bison and so much other wildlife:( - the population of coyotes, foxes and racoons exploded and did further damage to farming, ground nesting birds etc.

CelticRambler · 02-07-2018 10:22PM

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

yes ,most of us call it "work experiance":) ,or "further education" So we have a vet in France looking after a possible rabid dog?Ok,what happens when he comes home?If this was so miniscule a chance of occurrence,why do we have somone in France on the taxpayers dime learning about it?

What are you on about? It's obvious you know nothing about animal health surveillance, but what makes you think that an Irish vet, operating on behalf of the State, with government issued authority to decide if an animal lives or dies for the sake of public health would be on "work experience" ? Maybe you should pay a visit to Kildare Street and ask the vets there to answer your questions. :rolleyes:

Edit: in the meantime, here's your list of "wargames" ... https://ec.europa.eu/food/funding/animal-health/national-veterinary-programmes_en#

John_Rambo · 02-07-2018 10:50PM

I think you’ve watched “The Grey”
To many times Grizzly!! Very uncommon for Eorpean wolves to attack humans it seems!

Birdnuts · 03-07-2018 12:11AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I think you’ve watched “The Grey”
To many times Grizzly!! Very uncommon for Eorpean wolves to attack humans it seems!

Its the return of Jaws to EU waters that scares me!!:eek::pac::D

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44666250

dodderangler · 03-07-2018 10:05AM

Birdnuts wrote: »

Its the return of Jaws to EU waters that scares me!!:eek::pac::D

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44666250

I don't be more afraid of a conger eel than a gw.

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 10:27AM

What is the point of re-introducing species which were once native to this country? They are no longer native. You may as well be introducing a new species, because the countryside has changed so much since they were last here.

It's a fairy story idea, for our entertainment and no other reason. If you want to see Wolves, Bears, Lynx, or whatever else, have a day out in Dublin Zoo.

laoch na mona · 03-07-2018 10:33AM

Eddie B wrote: »

What is the point of re-introducing species which were once native to this country? They are no longer native. You may as well be introducing a new species, because the countryside has changed so much since they were last here.

It's a fairy story idea, for our entertainment and no other reason. If you want to see Wolves, Bears, Lynx, or whatever else, have a day out in Dublin Zoo.

a friend who works in environmental science told me its about restoring lost biodiversity, he was clear about the need to manage it but its basically to undo damage done to the environment.

for the species we reintroduced such as eagles the countryside hasn't changed too much to not make it viable, for things like wolves it has.

Interestingly Ireland now has more forest than 150 years ago, but its mostly conifer plantations

John_Rambo · 03-07-2018 10:34AM

Eddie B wrote: »

What is the point of re-introducing species which were once native to this country? They are no longer native

Nobody is re-introducing wolves to Ireland.

It was an April Fools joke from years ago.

And people are in hysterics over it.

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 10:43AM

laoch na mona wrote: »

a friend who works in environmental science told me its about restoring lost biodiversity, he was clear about the need to manage it but its basically to undo damage done to the environment.

for the species we reintroduced such as eagles the countryside hasn't changed too much to not make it viable, for things like wolves it has.

Interestingly Ireland now has more forest than 150 years ago, but its mostly conifer plantations

Yes but what benefit i there to re-introducing eagles or any other species? Well apart from having them around again.

Did you ever see a young lad poke a cow ****e with a stick? The more he pokes at it, the worse it gets. Same rule applies.

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 10:46AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Nobody is re-introducing wolves to Ireland.

It was an April Fools joke from years ago.

And people are in hysterics over it.

That wasn't my point. I'm saying re-introducing any species is pointless.

CelticRambler · 03-07-2018 11:03AM

Eddie B wrote: »

That wasn't my point. I'm saying re-introducing any species is pointless.

Myself and this guy would disagree:

Re-introduced, as a species, to the Swiss Jura in 1965, and it made my day to meet him at the top of a climb a couple of weeks ago. :cool:

John_Rambo · 03-07-2018 11:11AM

Eddie B wrote: »

That wasn't my point. I'm saying re-introducing any species is pointless.

It's not. We've done it here in Ireland with the raptor re-intoduction program and it's been a success.

Grizzly 45 · 03-07-2018 01:07PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I think you’ve watched “The Grey”
To many times Grizzly!! Very uncommon for Eorpean wolves to attack humans it seems!

Sorry I don't watch Liam Neeson's crap movies. Mans a hypocrite like the rest of his type in Hollywood and after googling the film ,it looks like I missed nothing either.:)

Lads,believe what ye want on this issue.I couldn't be bothered commenting on this anymore. Believe what you want that an apex predator should have free range in Western Europe heavily managed countryside and urban areas, where it hasn't been indigenous for the last 500 years is a sudden "necessity for our biodiversity" is the height of folly.I'm not saying they have no place in our eco system of Europe,but it needs to be controlled and monitored properly and culled if necessary. Not just left to a "let them get on with it and shure it will be grand" attitude. Things have changed a bit in the landscape of Europe in the last 400 years , when Canis Lupis was still common here.
Pretty good documentary from France about this situation.
Sorry its in German and French but you will get the drift.

https://www.kla.tv/_files/video.klagemauer.tv/umwelt_vid/umwelt_2018-03-17-dieschwerwie/01_umwelt_2018-03-17-dieschwerwie_480p.webm

Grizzly 45 · 03-07-2018 01:23PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

Interestingly Ireland now has more forest than 150 years ago, but its mostly conifer plantations

What we mistakenly call "forest" in Ireland is no such thing!
It is a commercial timber crop of a non-native species .Brought in by an Englishman with the attitude of "no tree planted without profit"Who was the father of Coilte in its various name changes over the last century. A forest does not consist of regimented, dark almost zero ground cover straight future pulpwood. A true forest is an organism, with ground cover, seedlings, saplings and various different species of trees growing, living dying and dead in it, with clearings and clear falls . That supports the life cycle of insects and animals.

In fact, Ireland has apparently the LEAST native natural forest growing in Europe.

Half-cocked · 03-07-2018 01:43PM

Eddie B wrote: »

That wasn't my point. I'm saying re-introducing any species is pointless.

Especially when the natural habitat of the species is long gone. The Ireland that had wolves had extensive forests and a small human population.

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 02:24PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's not. We've done it here in Ireland with the raptor re-intoduction program and it's been a success.

Yes, but what is the purpose of the raptor re-introduction? Apart from the fact that they are are appealing to us humans, what benefit do they bring to our ecosystem? Would the money used for re-introduction in this country not be more beneficial if it were used on habitat revival, which would help the wildlife we have here, especially those in danger because of habitat loss, and modern farming practices?

John_Rambo · 03-07-2018 02:31PM

Eddie B wrote: »

Yes, but what is the purpose of the raptor re-introduction? Apart from the fact that they are are appealing to us humans, what benefit do they bring to our ecosystem? Would the money used for re-introduction in this country not be more beneficial if it were used on habitat revival, which would help the wildlife we have here, especially those in danger because of habitat loss, and modern farming practices?

Both re-introduction and habitat revival should be concentrated on.

Help!!!! · 03-07-2018 02:39PM

Just do what they did in Wales, have them in an enclosed sanctuary.

https://www.wolfwatch.uk/

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 02:52PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Just do what they did in Wales, have them in an enclosed sanctuary.

https://www.wolfwatch.uk/

Bit like a zoo really.

Help!!!! · 03-07-2018 02:59PM

Eddie B wrote: »

Bit like a zoo really.

100 acres for a pack of wolves to roam isn't really like a zoo, not while theres deer roaming within the fence as well.
No one will ever let them roam free on our island so this would be the next best thing

Half-cocked · 03-07-2018 03:04PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

100 acres for a pack of wolves to roam isn't really like a zoo, not while theres deer roaming within the fence as well.
No one will ever let them roam free on our island so this would be the next best thing

100 acres sounds a lot, but apparently in the wild the average core territory size for a wolf pack is 35 km2. So it might seem like a zoo from the wolf's perspective!

Help!!!! · 03-07-2018 03:10PM

Half-cocked wrote: »

100 acres sounds a lot, but apparently in the wild the average core territory size for a wolf pack is 35 km2. So it might seem like a zoo from the wolf's perspective!

Yeah for sure it would be better if it was a larger area but its better than nothing. They only have a small number of wolves at a time there as well. Its the only way we would have wolves back in Ireland.

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 03:12PM

Half-cocked wrote: »

100 acres sounds a lot, but apparently in the wild the average core territory size for a wolf pack is 35 km2. So it might seem like a zoo from the wolf's perspective!

True, and over 30 wolves in that 100 acres. Also, what if that fence is breached accidentally or deliberately. You'd have wolves roaming the British countryside. Bad enough, with all these big cats running amuck, all over the UK lol

John_Rambo · 03-07-2018 03:13PM

Eddie B wrote: »

True, and over 30 wolves in that 100 acres. Also, what if that fence is breached accidentally or deliberately. You'd have wolves roaming the British countryside. Bad enough, with all these big cats running amuck, all over the UK lol

There'll be just as many people killed by the wolves as there are by the cats!

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 03:15PM

Half-cocked wrote: »

100 acres sounds a lot, but apparently in the wild the average core territory size for a wolf pack is 35 km2. So it might seem like a zoo from the wolf's perspective!

John_Rambo wrote: »

There'll be just as many people killed by the wolves as there are by the cats!

Lol! Well thats true

Eddie B · 03-07-2018 03:16PM

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yeah for sure it would be better if it was a larger area but its better than nothing. They only have a small number of wolves at a time there as well. Its the only way we would have wolves back in Ireland.

Yes, and that is why we're better off having none.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Wolves in France

Comments