Households To Produce Receipts For Waste Or Face Fines

LirW · 02-07-2018 8:45am

Funny that, we were just talking about it yesterday. Living in a rural area, on my trips to the surrounding towns there is an awful lot of illegally disposed litter. The worst is the stretch from Tullow to Carlow where people seemingly throw the black bags out of the car on the road, it's permanently full of rubbish there.

I appreciate that there are many genuine cases where people dispose of their rubbish themselves in a legal way. The problem is the big p1ss take that's happening. Our local recycling centre is in constant jeopardy because people pull up and just throw their normal household waste into containers that need to stay sorted, otherwise they can't sell the rubbish on and if that's not happening the centre has to close.
I also understand the lack of public bins, even though incredibly annoying, I see that certain people would see it as their personal dumping ground.

When my dad visited me in February he was shocked that there's so much litter around. He couldn't understand that there's no general courtesy and hard fines to scare people off. I had to explain long and hard how it works here.

Whatever it takes to get on top of littering really, it's such a disgrace and disgusting behaviour that threatens nature and wildlife, if they only need a receipt of mine, so be it. Rather that than having littered ditches and woods.

seamus · 02-07-2018 8:50am

Fann Linn wrote: »

Went golfing over the weekend. Sprinklers working perfectly keeping the greens moist, and that was after I passed the garden centre which also had its sprinkler system on.

Sometimes the hosepipe ban is directed at the wrong user.

To be fair, these are businesses whose existence depends on being able to maintain the plant life.

Your grass going yellow and your B & Q flowers withering and dying is annoying, but it doesn't really cost you anything but your time.

For a golf course or a garden centre, even a week in drought could cost tens of thousands of euro.

seamus · 02-07-2018 8:53am

Kassidy Delicious Dishcloth wrote: »

No amount of waste saving is worth the torture that would be proper nappies, it will thankfully never happen. I still hear the older generations of my family talk about the absolute hardship of it to this day.

Agreed. This is probably something that will be next up on the hit list; someone is very quickly going to need to find a way to develop nappies that biodegrade properly.

I think my Dad still has PTSD from the amount of repair work he had to do on washing machines over the years. Apparently ****-stained nappies and sudocrem absolutely destroy any parts that are rubber or plastic.

02-07-2018 9:01am

mariaalice wrote: »

We can be very wasteful without thinking, took the kitchen sink basin into the shower with me because of the hosepipe ban I was amazed at the amount of water I got. Going to use it to water the roses.

Strangely enough, the roses don’t seem too bothered by the lack of rain. Mine are brilliant this year.

Outlaw Pete · 02-07-2018 9:01am

dudara wrote: »

The latest recycling guidelines have soft plastic going into general refuse. China is not taking our recycling anymore and we don’t have recycling facilities in country.

It’s a disgrace that we can’t recycle soft plastics here. I’m very conscious about recycling & having to put soft plastics in the general rubbish bin really annoys me.

Wow. First I heard of that.

Ballymount is my local and they still had a container for soft plastics up until three weeks back at least.

Their site still says they accept soft plastics too........

If they stop accepting them I certainly cut down on buying anything with soft plastic. I already did a little. I even buy those biodegradable bags for packed lunches and the like.

Kat1170 · 02-07-2018 9:06am

seamus wrote: »

Also ignores the fact that these rules have been in place in the Sinn-Fein/Labour controlled DCC area for a number of years, as well as in other city/county councils.

The national legislation simply creates a consistent approach across all local authorities.

So are you saying it was a success there, or are you saying if one pays we should all pay even if it is a total failure ??

Anyone who thinks this is anything more than just another stealth tax needs their head examined. This won't stop the scumbags tossing their litter on the road side. Proper enforcement andlarge fines or jail terms are the only way. Make the polluter pay !!

TheChizler · 02-07-2018 9:07am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Soft plastics aren't taken at your recycling center?

And yes, I am incredibly disciplined, as everyone should be. Even use fruit and veg peelings as compost.

Unfortunately not, as dudara points out they stopped accepting them anywhere recently.

Unless you restrict yourself hugely you can't avoid soft plastic in a supermarket.

I'm seeing more and more about the soft plastic problem in the news recently, hopefully a critical mass is reached soon for the EU to do something about it. Let's face it, change won't be consumer led as most people don't give a crap, and we import too many goods for Ireland to lead a ban or restrictions in a meaningful way.

I also go to huge trouble to separate compostable materials. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference as the food waste bins in our park (shared bins) which we only got this year have never been collected, and are overflowing with general waste and plastic bags from people who just don't give a damn. I've witnessed everything go into the same compartment in the truck on collection day, the recycling is just too contaminated to be collected separately.

seamus · 02-07-2018 9:13am

Kat1170 wrote: »

So are you saying it was a success there, or are you saying if one pays we should all pay even if it is a total failure ??

I'm making the point that this isn't a "Fine Gael inventing nonsense and making a cash grab" initiative as another poster seems to think it is. This initiative has been implemented at a local level by other political parties, the government are simply adapting it to ensure a consistent approach is taken nationally.

Whether it's effective I can't say, but I completely support these rules being on the books. Fly tippers are some of the worst dirtbags around. The rock bottom of anti social behaviour.

Anyone who thinks this is anything more than just another stealth tax needs their head examined. This won't stop the scumbags tossing their litter on the road side. Proper enforcement andlarge fines or jail terms are the only way. Make the polluter pay !!

Where's the "stealth tax" here?

LirW · 02-07-2018 9:14am

Literally everything in the supermarket is wrapped in some sort of soft plastic. Most fruit and veg is, if you need a bag for the loose stuff, soft plastic it is. Your cereal, your meat, your rice cakes are all wrapped in soft plastic.
On Friday I thought I'm gonna treat myself and bought some chocolate brioche buns (which were disgusting btw), they were wrapped in a big plastic bag and each individual one was wrapped in a smaller plastic wrapper too.

Please plastic-free people, tell me how you do it to do your weekly shop plastic free within a certain budget.

02-07-2018 9:14am

What’s that I can hear in the distance?

No way.

We won’t pay.

Peaceful protest.

Leo, Leo, Leo. Ou, Ou, Ou.

Though, I do think that it’s too close to a General Election for protest.

Teyla Emmagan · 02-07-2018 9:16am

That's great news. Because I know half my neighbours have no rubbish collection. They spend their time stuffing rubbish into the public bins on the street which are then too full for genuine people to use. About time.

Squatter · 02-07-2018 9:20am

Malayalam wrote: »

Thinly veiled 'we will soon have to put a micro-chip in all your bins' move. Smart cities are the future, you plebian doofuses. Or preferably in your body. You know, just to be sure, to be sure.

Sounds good to me! Where do I sign up?

mickdw · 02-07-2018 9:23am

We are paying by weight - a green policy when the reality is that it is already resulting in a mad increase in fly tipping locally. I think progress had been made in rural areas in recent years with nearly every household having a bin but things are going backwards now. A fine idea on paper but in reality, it's not working.

James Bond Junior · 02-07-2018 9:25am

Graces7 wrote: »

And for the bring banks?

Whole idea is ***********

Fine for towns etc where they have collections etc...

Like many here I have almost no waste.

Stop trying to find an issue where there is none. I can't envisage the bin police calling to people's doors demanding reciepts. More like they will use it as a way to help proseceute suspected fly tippers.

cournioni · 02-07-2018 9:32am

Reckon they should fire up a few more incinerators around Dublin, put general waste to good use.

I use the local recycling centre which also takes general waste. €3 in and €2 addition for general non recyclable waste.

Kat1170 · 02-07-2018 9:41am

seamus wrote: »

I'm making the point that this isn't a "Fine Gael inventing nonsense and making a cash grab" initiative as another poster seems to think it is. This initiative has been implemented at a local level by other political parties, the government are simply adapting it to ensure a consistent approach is taken nationally.

Whether it's effective I can't say, but I completely support these rules being on the books. Fly tippers are some of the worst dirtbags around. The rock bottom of anti social behaviour.

Where's the "stealth tax" here?

So, you don't know if it works but you're all for it

Stealth tax = won't be used in any way shape or form to stop fly-tipping.

LirW · 02-07-2018 9:47am

How about a re-design of property tax like in other parts of Europe? Consists of the actual property tax and a flat rate that includes bins, water and maintenance charges for streets, parks etc. Have one company servicing designated areas, everyone has bins so, water is paid for and it's all good. Otherwise I don't see how you'll get on top of that disastrous infrastructure clusterfcuk.

cournioni · 02-07-2018 9:51am

LirW wrote: »

How about a re-design of property tax like in other parts of Europe? Consists of the actual property tax and a flat rate that includes bins, water and maintenance charges for streets, parks etc. Have one company servicing designated areas, everyone has bins so, water is paid for and it's all good. Otherwise I don't see how you'll get on top of that disastrous infrastructure clusterfcuk.

You can't be implying that our taxes will go towards actual services can you?!

seamus · 02-07-2018 10:01am

Kat1170 wrote: »

So, you don't know if it works but you're all for it

So, you said, "Proper enforcement andlarge fines or jail terms are the only way."

That's exactly what this is. Or at the very least it is the mechanism through which enforcement is possible. So presumably you're all for it too?

Stealth tax = won't be used in any way shape or form to stop fly-tipping.

What won't be used?

I really don't think you even bothered your hole reading the article, you've just decided to go on a little rant.

LirW · 02-07-2018 10:06am

cournioni wrote: »

You can't be implying that our taxes will go towards actual services can you?!

:pac:

seamus · 02-07-2018 10:09am

LirW wrote: »

How about a re-design of property tax like in other parts of Europe? Consists of the actual property tax and a flat rate that includes bins, water and maintenance charges for streets, parks etc. Have one company servicing designated areas, everyone has bins so, water is paid for and it's all good. Otherwise I don't see how you'll get on top of that disastrous infrastructure clusterfcuk.

While I do see the logic and benefit in this, at the same time I'm wary of the whole "you live here and you take what you're given" scenario.

I don't think it can be applied to all services in the same way. For stuff like water or street maintenance, sure. It's the same infrastructure, the same standard.
For waste, I'm not sure. You could be unlucky enough to live somewhere where the local bin guys are lazy fnckups or sticklers for the rules. Your mate who lives a KM has sound binmen who take away black bags too, whereas your guys will refuse to take your bin if the lid is open by 3mm.

It's like health and schools in the UK. When you live in an area, you either use the local GP and the local school, or pay to go private if you don't like it. Regardless of how good the local service is.

So I'm all for consolidating costs and services where it makes sense, but balanced with freedom of choice where feasible. Certainly in terms property/council tax, it seems clear that the nature of waste varies massively between people. So IMO it makes more sense to allow people to choose the waste service that best suits their usage. Rather than having conscientious/low waste generators pay proportionately way more and negligent/high generators pay proportionately little.

Donald Trump · 02-07-2018 11:04am

LirW wrote: »

How about a re-design of property tax like in other parts of Europe? Consists of the actual property tax and a flat rate that includes bins, water and maintenance charges for streets, parks etc. Have one company servicing designated areas, everyone has bins so, water is paid for and it's all good. Otherwise I don't see how you'll get on top of that disastrous infrastructure clusterfcuk.

Because then lazy cunts won't make an effort to either reduce, reuse or recycle.

Ludo · 02-07-2018 11:08am

seamus wrote: »

For waste, I'm not sure. You could be unlucky enough to live somewhere where the local bin guys are lazy fnckups or sticklers for the rules. Your mate who lives a KM has sound binmen who take away black bags too, whereas your guys will refuse to take your bin if the lid is open by 3mm.

This single waste provider for an area would also reduce the cost of road repairs which are needed due to the rediculous number of large rubbish trucks driving through small estates every week. Ther must be about 15 large trucks a week in our estate making ****e of the road. The council have to come out regularly to fix the potholes the trucks are making.

fineso.mom · 02-07-2018 11:18am

Graces7 wrote: »

We don't have bins and nor do many deep rural places. At the last place, we bought special bags and left them at set points on set days.

Separate bags for separate things

And used the bottle banks etc

Thats something I never thought about actually. How is rubbish managed on the island ?

Jim_bop · 02-07-2018 11:32am

Out of curiosity, have they ever or why don't they encourage/force manufacturers and retailers find ways of minimising packaging and move towards biodegradable, e.g., afaik in San Fran water is only sold in glass now as plastic bottles were banned to help with waste reduction. Surely similar programmes could contribute significantly here along with other measures at the customer end that we're discussing here.

LirW · 02-07-2018 1:30pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

Because then lazy cunts won't make an effort to either reduce, reuse or recycle.

Which can then be penalised by the company.

It is simply so disgraceful that the countryside, one if Ireland's most valuable assets of Income (tourism) is used as a landfill and people fight over paying by weight or per lift. I understand that people here on boards seem to recycle like they're supposed to and anything bin related is an absolute inconvenience for them. But we're not talking about some minor issue, but something that devalues the country and attracts pests, causes environmental problems.
The shoulder patting is absolutely unnecessary, because littering happens in all parts of society. Driving around in the middle of nowhere everyday has me taught one thing: cigarette buds and litter gets thrown out of the 03 Corolla as well as the 172 Nissan Qashqaj and don't get me started on the fleets of tradesmen around here. Once it inconveniences people they simply "forget" about their litter or common sense to not stuff the sides of the road with litter. If the vast majority of people would follow some common sense rules, there would be no need for these kind of measures. The place isn't littering itself.

Graces7 · 02-07-2018 2:19pm

fineso.mom wrote: »

Thats something I never thought about actually. How is rubbish managed on the island ?

. Informally...every time I go to the mainland i take bags of jars and tins etc We have no bins or collections. And no tipping either.

Squatter · 02-07-2018 2:20pm

Graces7 wrote: »

. Informally...every time I go to the mainland i take bags of jars and tins etc We have no bins or collections. And no tipping either.

And no dodgy bonfires at dusk? (like we have in my part of the countryside, unfortunately).

Graces7 · 02-07-2018 2:24pm

Kassidy Delicious Dishcloth wrote: »

No amount of waste saving is worth the torture that would be proper nappies, it will thankfully never happen. I still hear the older generations of my family talk about the absolute hardship of it to this day.

What torture? hardship? With modern machines and driers? Even back then no hardship

Other countries do it fine.

Given the alternative is burying Ireland in a mass of non biodegradable filthy stinky nappies!

Get up to date please...

https://www.earthmother.ie/cloth-nappies.html

Graces7 · 02-07-2018 2:25pm

Squatter wrote: »

And no dodgy bonfires at dusk? (like we have in my part of the countryside, unfortunately).

Nope.

goat2 · 02-07-2018 2:25pm

If they go to the providers of waste services, they will be able to find out that way, if everyone is paying their waste bill, then check with the centres to see if they that are not using the door collection services are coming in to use the facilities, I did see someome flinging a black bag out of booth of car a couple yrs ago, and stopped and told them I would report them, and they were not long picking it all up and putting it back in car, told them I would let the licence number of car with co co

_Brian · 02-07-2018 2:26pm

This is a great idea.
People need to prove where their waste is going.

The next thing there needs to be a clamp down on is the charlatans advertising on Facebook to clear rubbish, they’re just fly tipping it on the countryside.

fiachraX · 02-07-2018 2:31pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Why would I pay that sort of money for 2 bags of rubbish each month? Instead I load them into the car and dispose of them in one of those big yellow compactor bins they have dotted around petrol stations outside Dublin. Costs me 8 quid for both bags.

This sounds like a great idea. Does anyone know of something similar inside Dublin? I googled but just found The Big Bin which seems to be Munster-based only, and this list of pay-to-use compactors which is longer but still only seems to be outside Dublin.
Are there any in Dublin?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 02-07-2018 2:32pm

Squatter wrote: »

And no dodgy bonfires at dusk? (like we have in my part of the countryside, unfortunately).

Of course they do. I've seen it myself while staying with friends on an island near Achill. Their attitude embraces a combination of "we've always done it", "there's no bin service", "what they don't see won't sicken them", and "sure who'd know?"

Squatter · 02-07-2018 2:33pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Nope.

Hmmmmmmm......................... :rolleyes:

Ubbquittious · 02-07-2018 2:37pm

Jim_bop wrote: »

Out of curiosity, have they ever or why don't they encourage/force manufacturers and retailers find ways of minimising packaging and move towards biodegradable, e.g., afaik in San Fran water is only sold in glass now as plastic bottles were banned to help with waste reduction. Surely similar programmes could contribute significantly here along with other measures at the customer end that we're discussing here.

You'll hear that the biodegradable or rubbish-free alternative would kill their business and the only way to stop thousands of jobs being lost is to let them continue on the old foot.

Such nonsense forcing people to prove that they're paying to get rid of rubbish. What if people avoid packaging like the plague or get rid of it in the shop's own bins?

The real "problem" this is meant to solve is to stop people from sharing bins which is a huge problem for the big bin collection companies. They would rather everyone pays 3 or 600 a year for a couple of black bags once a month. Definitely Fianna Gael pandering to the business interests again

freshpopcorn · 02-07-2018 2:38pm

This is great news for the bin companies.
A few years ago when they were trying to bring similar a sales rep from a bin company called to a elderly relative of mine. This guy is a man who lives alone and generated very little rubbish and bring his rubbish to local dump/landfill a few times a year. The sales rep told him if he didn't sign up to bin collection he'd be passing his name onto the department so he'd be prosecuted.

dclifford · 02-07-2018 2:39pm

I think requesting proof of legitimate waste disposal is good. If people that illegally dump currently, has to pay for their waste they are less likely to illegaly dump or fly-tip.
There is a lot of data that shows how much waste any/every household would produce, on average. So there should be a reasonable minimum requirement that could be set that you need to show proof of.

I am sure there are some other ideal ways to manage waste. Littering and illegal dumping is a huge problem in Ireland and needs to be sorted sooner rather than later.

Ubbquittious · 02-07-2018 2:43pm

dclifford wrote: »

I think requesting proof of legitimate waste disposal is good. If people that illegally dump currently, has to pay for their waste they are less likely to illegaly dump or fly-tip.
There is a lot of data that shows how much waste any/every household would produce, on average. So there should be a reasonable minimum requirement that could be set that you need to show proof of.

I am sure there are some other ideal ways to manage waste. Littering and illegal dumping is a huge problem in Ireland and needs to be sorted sooner rather than later.

What if you don't dump anything and have no requirement for those services? Do you think its acceptable to punish people based on the assumption that it's impossible to do and they must be dumping illegally?

dclifford · 02-07-2018 2:45pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What if you don't dump anything and have no requirement for those services? Do you think its acceptable to punish people based on the assumption that it's impossible to do and they must be dumping illegally?

If you can prove you dont need a waste service and don't dump anything, then yes, I am sure there could be exceptions made.

kylith · 02-07-2018 2:55pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Kassidy Delicious Dishcloth wrote: »

No amount of waste saving is worth the torture that would be proper nappies, it will thankfully never happen. I still hear the older generations of my family talk about the absolute hardship of it to this day.

What torture? hardship? With modern machines and driers? Even back then no hardship

Other countries do it fine.

Given the alternative is burying Ireland in a mass of non biodegradable filthy stinky nappies!

Get up to date please...

https://www.earthmother.ie/cloth-nappies.html

All I can think is that they mustn’t have been taking the sh!t out of the nappy before putting it in the wash.

We are seriously looking at cloth nappies when the sprig cometh.

Joshua J · 02-07-2018 3:05pm

Businesses have to grow profit year on year and the easiest way to do this is screw the customer. This is not about fly tipping.

judeboy101 · 02-07-2018 3:09pm

dclifford wrote: »

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What if you don't dump anything and have no requirement for those services? Do you think its acceptable to punish people based on the assumption that it's impossible to do and they must be dumping illegally?

If you can prove you dont need a waste service and don't dump anything, then yes, I am sure there could be exceptions made.

I thought our legal system was based on the premise that one must prove guilt, not defend innocence?

02-07-2018 3:25pm

kylith wrote: »

All I can think is that they mustn’t have been taking the sh!t out of the nappy before putting it in the wash.

We are seriously looking at cloth nappies when the sprig cometh.

Why would you do that to yourself, nappies are disgusting enough having to look at other people changing them and throw them in the bin never mind having to wash them. It’s serious regression of society that this is being thought off, even my parents didn’t have to use cloth nappies they are so long forgotten.

I hear much older relatives taking about them though and how disposable nappies were such a fantastic invention that would have made their lives far far easier. I honestly would reconsider having a child if disposable nappies were not an option, it’s already on the border line for me because of the amount of work, lack of sleep, less social life etc that it results in but something like having to wash nappies would be the last straw.

02-07-2018 3:28pm

Kassidy Delicious Dishcloth wrote: »

Why would you do that to yourself, nappies are disgusting enough having to look at other people changing them and throw them in the bin never mind having to wash them. It’s serious regression of society that this is being thought off, even my parents didn’t have to use cloth nappies they are so long forgotten.

I hear much older relatives taking about them though and how disposable nappies were such a fantastic invention that would have made their lives far far easier. I honestly would reconsider having a child if disposable nappies were not an option, it’s already on the border line for me because of the amount of work, lack of sleep, less social life etc that it results in but something like having to wash nappies would be the last straw.

But, but, but, we NEED more children to pay our pensions.

BattleCorp · 02-07-2018 3:44pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Anyone see you pics of the beaches and the state they were left in.

This country needs a kick up the whole when it comes to litter and waste.

Some horrible selfish people out there who don’t give a **** about anything or anyone else.

Having a bin at home won't stop ar5eholes from littering a beach.

kylith · 02-07-2018 3:54pm

Kassidy Delicious Dishcloth wrote: »

kylith wrote: »

All I can think is that they mustn’t have been taking the sh!t out of the nappy before putting it in the wash.

We are seriously looking at cloth nappies when the sprog cometh.

Why would you do that to yourself, nappies are disgusting enough having to look at other people changing them and throw them in the bin never mind having to wash them. It’s serious regression of society that this is being thought off, even my parents didn’t have to use cloth nappies they are so long forgotten.

I hear much older relatives taking about them though and how disposable nappies were such a fantastic invention that would have made their lives far far easier. I honestly would reconsider having a child if disposable nappies were not an option, it’s already on the border line for me because of the amount of work, lack of sleep, less social life etc that it results in but something like having to wash nappies would be the last straw.

Because it’s a fuk sight cheaper, better for the environment both in production and disposal and, hold on to your vom bucket, Nox, you can use them for more than one child!

seamus · 02-07-2018 4:00pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What if you don't dump anything and have no requirement for those services? Do you think its acceptable to punish people based on the assumption that it's impossible to do and they must be dumping illegally?

A household with no requirement for a household waste service is an absolute exception.

It's a reasonable assumption to make that if you have a house which is being lived in, then you have waste which needs to be disposed of.

Therefore it is fair to require proof that it's being disposed of in a legal manner.

There will be the odd exception, but they're few and far between and will be able to prove they have no need for waste collection.

talking_walnut · 02-07-2018 4:04pm

Kassidy Delicious Dishcloth wrote: »

Why would you do that to yourself, nappies are disgusting enough having to look at other people changing them and throw them in the bin never mind having to wash them. It’s serious regression of society that this is being thought off, even my parents didn’t have to use cloth nappies they are so long forgotten.

I hear much older relatives taking about them though and how disposable nappies were such a fantastic invention that would have made their lives far far easier. I honestly would reconsider having a child if disposable nappies were not an option, it’s already on the border line for me because of the amount of work, lack of sleep, less social life etc that it results in but something like having to wash nappies would be the last straw.

If a sh1ty nappy is going to put you off having kids you might want to do a bit more research on just how gross they can be. I think you're also overestimating what a nappy will do for you. They ain't black holes!

Ubbquittious · 02-07-2018 4:05pm

seamus wrote: »

A household with no requirement for a household waste service is an absolute exception.

It's a reasonable assumption to make that if you have a house which is being lived in, then you have waste which needs to be disposed of.

Therefore it is fair to require proof that it's being disposed of in a legal manner.

There will be the odd exception, but they're few and far between and will be able to prove they have no need for waste collection.

They can't be that odd because I know several. Is it too much trouble to just catch the fellas out dumping? I have never heard of it being fair to prove that you're not doing something wrong. This is a complete reversal of the normal situation

Households To Produce Receipts For Waste Or Face Fines

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