Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

riffmongous · 30-06-2018 11:18pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I take it this appeared in the Irish edition too.

But we're best and closest neighbours don't you know :rolleyes:

Now that's not totally fair, the sun readership is a bit special and reflects an opinion that I wouldn't say is in the majority but is considerable and quite vocal and some in ireland would do well to remember that

alaimacerc · 30-06-2018 11:23pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

She said "Too many people coming in. We shouldn't have to let them in".

I said "What people" and she replied "The Polish - they are everywhere".

She did not see the irony in the fact that she herself was an economic migrant. Also told me that she had just recently got permanent status there. Wasn't even going back to the UK

In further Chain Irony, there was an item on the TV last week about far-right anti-immigrant agitators in the UK... ... from Poland.

I suppose if you're going to give out yards about immigrants, unless you and all your ancestors have been in the Rift Valley for the last 50,000 years, a certain amount of compartmentalisation is going to be required.

Taytoland · 30-06-2018 11:24pm

zapitastas wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

No deal as I predicted over 18 months ago.

The will take whatever scraps are thrown from the table ... in due course

The British government wants the UK to leave the single market and Customs Union. This will never get voted through with all the other EU states. I have said the UK should just go for a no deal. A deal is not going to happen, it's impossible with the following policies as I have outlined.

30-06-2018 11:40pm

eric hoone wrote: »

EU going to make Brits suffer for as long as possible, we're in a strong negotiating position, they're cracking up.

Except Irish businesses need certainty asap and these people like the obscenely wealthy Rees Mogg don't want to admit they've led millions of ignorant British English people down a cul de sac so like the snivelling cowards that they are they keep placating their supporters with the pleasing folie de grandeur of "We're still a world power and we'd be greater still only for the EU".

Everybody is out of step but our Johnny and scapegoats, especially foreign ones, will always be used by the Tories.

The truly galling thing is that it was economically rightwing British Tory policies, aped by New Labour when they took over in 1997, which was the biggest supporter of huge immigration to Britain. This was done as the central means of keeping labour costs low in Britain. And now the same rightwing politicians are putting themselves forward as defenders of the very class of menial workers and plebs whose jobs were always the first to be threatened by the immigration which the Tories always advocated for economic reasons. There aren't enough decades of the rosary to pray for the poor English on this one. A people who are absolutely hoodwinked by their social superiors in the Tory party.

30-06-2018 11:50pm

Taytoland wrote: »

The British government wants the UK to leave the single market and Customs Union. This will never get voted through with all the other EU states. I have said the UK should just go for a no deal. A deal is not going to happen, it's impossible with the following policies as I have outlined.

Yes, and we all understand the logic here of all these calls for a tough Brexit: You can then turn around to the hordes of undereducated sorts in council estates across England and declare: "Once again, poor Britain is the victim of the evil EU!". Yeah, we know the game well.

Despite Brexiters' claims of world power status, you're getting very underdogesque, if that's a word, in your need to be repressed in order to win support based on nationalist sentiment. By your tactics you'll tell their power. The IRA and PLO would be impressed.

Taytoland · 01-07-2018 12:00am

Deleted User wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

The British government wants the UK to leave the single market and Customs Union. This will never get voted through with all the other EU states. I have said the UK should just go for a no deal. A deal is not going to happen, it's impossible with the following policies as I have outlined.

Yes, and we all understand the logic here of all these calls for a tough Brexit: You can then turn around to the hordes of undereducated sorts in council estates across England and declare: "Once again, poor Britain is the victim of the evil EU!". Yeah, we know the game well.

Despite Brexiters' claims of world power status, you're getting very underdogesque, if that's a word, in your need to be repressed in order to win support based on nationalist sentiment. By your tactics you'll tell their power. The IRA and PLO would be impressed.

I have called for it since the referendum was won because I understood the actual folly of the "negotiations" before most people caught on that no deal is what is going to happen. Only now are the mainstream picking up on this. The British government will have no choice but go for no deal because you can not leave the single market and the customs union and reap any of those benefits outside the club.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-07-2018 12:26am

Brexit will put 2.5% of the work force on the dole ?

Let's pretend for a moment that would actually happen, how long would it take to re-employ those people in this economy ?

Employment increases by 2.9% in year to Q1 2018

Economic report predicts 236,700 new jobs up to 2022

2.5% is an interesting figure, it's rougly how much growth the UK economy has lost since the Brexit vote.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-07-2018 1:20am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except Irish businesses need certainty asap and these people like the obscenely wealthy Rees Mogg don't want to admit they've led millions of ignorant British English people down a cul de sac so like the snivelling cowards that they are they keep placating their supporters with the pleasing folie de grandeur of "We're still a world power and we'd be greater still only for the EU".

Everybody is out of step but our Johnny and scapegoats, especially foreign ones, will always be used by the Tories.

The truly galling thing is that it was economically rightwing British Tory policies, aped by New Labour when they took over in 1997, which was the biggest supporter of huge immigration to Britain. This was done as the central means of keeping labour costs low in Britain. And now the same rightwing politicians are putting themselves forward as defenders of the very class of menial workers and plebs whose jobs were always the first to be threatened by the immigration which the Tories always advocated for economic reasons. There aren't enough decades of the rosary to pray for the poor English on this one. A people who are absolutely hoodwinked by their social superiors in the Tory party.

Well there’s two wings to the Conservative party - English nationalist and free market libertarians.

mikemac2 · 01-07-2018 7:57am

The British rags love to mention how they bailed out Ireland

They loaned 3.2 billion in 2010 and repayments are on track and will be completed by 2021 and they recieved over 400 million in interest.

Their own national debt is not far off two trillion so they might look at themselves

01-07-2018 9:00am

mikemac2 wrote: »

The British rags love to mention how they bailed out Ireland

They loaned 3.2 billion in 2010 and repayments are on track and will be completed by 2021 and they recieved over 400 million in interest.

Their own national debt is not far off two trillion so they might look at themselves

Yes, it was exquisitely kind of them: give the Irish people a loan so that they could pay off the losses of private British corporations/gamblers in Ireland. And Irish taxpayers are paying Britain €700 milllion in interest for this pleasure. Such "friends".

British banks have £140 billion exposure to Ireland's economic crisis (17 Nov. 2010)

seachto7 · 01-07-2018 11:02am

If only to piss off Kate Hoey

riffmongous · 01-07-2018 11:03am

^^ sure look at that Hoey woman

twinytwo · 01-07-2018 11:07am

mikemac2 wrote: »

Vote leave because of immigration.

Retire to Spain, refuse to learn Spanish, refuse to integrate, demand eggs n’chips and watery beer in the local bar, use the Spanish health service for your elderly needs. Complain about Polish shops in London while you shop in British shops in Spain.

But it’s all ok because anyone brown coming to the Uk is immigrant while any Brit abroad is an expat.

Your elderly brexit voter

Immigration was only one of the reasons they voted out.

Whatever you say about the brits, they wont bend the knee or turn the arse to the Germans and the rest of the eurocrats like we do.

01-07-2018 11:22am

twinytwo wrote: »

Whatever you say about the brits, they wont bend the knee or turn the arse to the Germans and the rest of the eurocrats like we do.

When all the bluster is over, they'll do as they're told.

Taytoland · 01-07-2018 11:32am

twinytwo wrote: »

mikemac2 wrote: »

Vote leave because of immigration.

Retire to Spain, refuse to learn Spanish, refuse to integrate, demand eggs n’chips and watery beer in the local bar, use the Spanish health service for your elderly needs. Complain about Polish shops in London while you shop in British shops in Spain.

But it’s all ok because anyone brown coming to the Uk is immigrant while any Brit abroad is an expat.

Your elderly brexit voter

Immigration was only one of the reasons they voted out.

Whatever you say about the brits, they wont bend the knee or turn the arse to the Germans and the rest of the eurocrats like we do.

It was the fundamental reason vote leave won. The people had enough of mass immigration. That is what it mostly boiled down to and the EU did nothing to resolve it and reform on freedom of movement.

01-07-2018 11:34am

twinytwo wrote: »

Immigration was only one of the reasons they voted out.

Which is ironic given that in May 2004 the British ignored EU restrictions on the movement of citizens of new members states like Poland and 9 other countries to encourage them to move to Britain and thus keep wage rates low for the British plebs who now faced more competition. And of course all those Pakistanis, West Indians and the like are in Britain because of the EU and not because of the British Empire/British jingoism?

How predictably pathetic that Brexiters and their scapegoating of the EU have wiped these, and much more, from the historical record.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-07-2018 11:34am

2_hot_2_sleep wrote: »

id have thought the labour party has an an english nationalist wing too , the labour party is far too PC to admit they exist but surely many in the north of england fly the the georges cross during the world cup etc

it was labour party traditional voters who swung brexit , the people who would traditionally have worked in menial jobs which are now filled by eastern europeans for the most part , those people got nothing good out of more liberal freedom of movement labour policies

something often forgotten

A lot of working class English nationalists would vote conservative but that’s true enough.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-07-2018 11:36am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which is ironic given that in May 2004 the British ignored EU restrictions on the movement of citizens of new members states like Poland and 9 other countries to encourage them to move to Britain and thus keep wage rates low for the British plebs who now faced more competition. And of course all those Pakistanis, West Indians and the like are in Britain because of the EU and not because of the British Empire/British jingoism?

How predictably pathetic that Brexiters and their scapegoating of the EU have wiped these, and much more, from the historical record.

The ordinary guy is still going to blame the EU though. In the north of England Labour is always going to win.

British jingoism doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t impose border control either.

Twenty Grand · 01-07-2018 11:39am

Taytoland wrote: »

It was the fundamental reason vote leave won. The people had enough of mass immigration. That is what it mostly boiled down to and the EU did nothing to resolve it and reform on freedom of movement.

There has been mass migration to Britain for near 100 years. Over 10% of the population are Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc) or black African.

The EU didn't cause mass migration to the UK, the UK did it to themselves.

01-07-2018 11:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it was exquisitely kind of them: give the Irish people a loan so that they could pay off the losses of private British corporations/gamblers in Ireland. And Irish taxpayers are paying Britain €700 milllion in interest for this pleasure. Such "friends".

I have some bad news for you I'm afraid. Now sit down while I break this to you gently.

There is no magic money tree.

Are you ok hun?

So, now that you know that, can you understand that the UK would have had to borrow the money to lend to Ireland, That money would attract interest. It is only right that the interest on that loan is covered by the Irish government, is it not? or are you suggesting that Ireland should scrounge off the UK tax payer?

Deleted User wrote: »

British banks have £140 billion exposure to Ireland's economic crisis (17 Nov. 2010)

how many UK banks did the Irish government bail out? or German, Dutch, Swiss, Spanish for that matter?

I'l give you a clue, it was none. The only banks bailed out by the Irish government were Irish ones.

All the foreign banks that lost billions in Ireland, were all bailed out by the tax payers in their respective countries. The reason the UK didn't set up a "Bad Bank" like Ireland did with NAMA, is because they already had one, with it's head quarters right next to Tara Street station.

The Irish property bubble, caused by greed, poor governance and a downright criminally incompetent government, cost tax payers across europe billions, so less of the boo hoo, feel sorry for us ****e please.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 01-07-2018 11:47am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

There has been mass migration to Britain for near 100 years. Over 10% of the population are Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc) or black African.

The EU didn't cause mass migration to the UK, the UK did it to themselves.

The only vote they could have directly on the matter was the EU vote.

Taytoland · 01-07-2018 11:52am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Taytoland wrote: »

It was the fundamental reason vote leave won. The people had enough of mass immigration. That is what it mostly boiled down to and the EU did nothing to resolve it and reform on freedom of movement.

There has been mass migration to Britain for near 100 years. Over 10% of the population are Asian (Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc) or black African.

The EU didn't cause mass migration to the UK, the UK did it to themselves.

Traitors did it to us namely in Tony Blair with his insane policies circa 2004. Brexit was his invention ultimately.

Twenty Grand · 01-07-2018 11:55am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The only vote they could have directly on the matter was the EU vote.

True, but the horse has bolted decades ago on that issue. For all the people (including Nigel Farage) who complained about immigrants who don't speak English and don't integrate with white Englanders, leaving the EU is not going to make a dent.

fergiesfolly · 01-07-2018 12:13pm

Do, what happens in a "no deal" scenario?
B-Day arrives and then what?
How long do the EU and UK wait before putting in place the machinery for this new arrangement?

Twenty Grand · 01-07-2018 12:37pm

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Do, what happens in a "no deal" scenario?
B-Day arrives and then what?
How long do the EU and UK wait before putting in place the machinery for this new arrangement?

The agreement needs to be locked down by October this year,ratified by March 2019, then there's a 2 year implementation window.

EdgeCase · 01-07-2018 12:55pm

Aegir wrote: »

I have some bad news for you I'm afraid. Now sit down while I break this to you gently.

There is no magic money tree.

Are you ok hun?

So, now that you know that, can you understand that the UK would have had to borrow the money to lend to Ireland, That money would attract interest. It is only right that the interest on that loan is covered by the Irish government, is it not? or are you suggesting that Ireland should scrounge off the UK tax payer?

how many UK banks did the Irish government bail out? or German, Dutch, Swiss, Spanish for that matter?

I'l give you a clue, it was none. The only banks bailed out by the Irish government were Irish ones.

All the foreign banks that lost billions in Ireland, were all bailed out by the tax payers in their respective countries. The reason the UK didn't set up a "Bad Bank" like Ireland did with NAMA, is because they already had one, with it's head quarters right next to Tara Street station.

The Irish property bubble, caused by greed, poor governance and a downright criminally incompetent government, cost tax payers across europe billions, so less of the boo hoo, feel sorry for us ****e please.

The UK itself had a parallel and almost identical crisis. The result was the biggest state bailout in British history and the largest corporate loss in British history.

HBOS and RBS were nationalised

RBS alone had £325bn of toxic assets sitting in a government vehicle effectively doing the same thing as NAMA just using a different mechanism.

In both countries, the state ended up standing behind mornic decisions made by banks that had gone nuts.

Their total bailout package was approximately £500 billion (€564 billion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_Kingdom_bank_rescue_package

The UK banks that entered the Irish market late, notably HBOS behaved absolutely irresponsibility and lost billions in a very short time period by taking unbelievably stupid risks.

You can blame Irish regulation (or lack thereof) to a point; but there was a bank culture of absolutely risk blindness and magic thinking going on too. Banks are supposed to be competent at carrying out investment risk analysis. It's one of the only things that have to be good at. Instead they got extremely good at selling loans and forgot about all the rest of things banks actually have to do.

The 2008 disaster shows one thing : we cannot trust the banks to manage themselves, be transparent, or comply with rules unless they’re policed with aggressive and intrusive regulation as they could literally destroy countries if we don’t do that. Most of them broke every rule in the book, lied and then dumped their risk on sovereign states.

But I don’t think you can give the UK a free pass on having a regulatory environment that was any better than ours was. Both countries (and the US and several continental countries and Iceland) came very close to being economically destroyed by their own rogue banking sectors.

Also that friendly loan the UK gave us is earning them about 400 million a year in interest payments and they won’t accept early repayment. On the plus side, if GBP goes soft after Brexit, well have saved a fortune.

Billy86 · 01-07-2018 1:23pm

Taytoland wrote: »

Traitors did it to us namely in Tony Blair with his insane policies circa 2004. Brexit was his invention ultimately.

Tony Blair was not prime minister in the 60s, 70s or 80s.

01-07-2018 1:56pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

The UK itself had a parallel and almost identical crisis. The result was the biggest state bailout in British history and the largest corporate loss in British history.

HBOS and RBS were nationalised

RBS alone had £325bn of toxic assets sitting in a government vehicle effectively doing the same thing as NAMA just using a different mechanism.

In both countries, the state ended up standing behind mornic decisions made by banks that had gone nuts.

Their total bailout package was approximately £500 billion (€564 billion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_Kingdom_bank_rescue_package

The UK banks that entered the Irish market late, notably HBOS behaved absolutely irresponsibility and lost billions in a very short time period by taking unbelievably stupid risks.

You can blame Irish regulation (or lack thereof) to a point; but there was a bank culture of absolutely risk blindness and magic thinking going on too. Banks are supposed to be competent at carrying out investment risk analysis. It's one of the only things that have to be good at. Instead they got extremely good at selling loans and forgot about all the rest of things banks actually have to do.

The 2008 disaster shows one thing : we cannot trust the banks to manage themselves, be transparent, or comply with rules unless they’re policed with aggressive and intrusive regulation as they could literally destroy countries if we don’t do that. Most of them broke every rule in the book, lied and then dumped their risk on sovereign states.

But I don’t think you can give the UK a free pass on having a regulatory environment that was any better than ours was. Both countries (and the US and several continental countries and Iceland) came very close to being economically destroyed by their own rogue banking sectors.

Also that friendly loan the UK gave us is earning them about 400 million a year in interest payments and they won’t accept early repayment. On the plus side, if GBP goes soft after Brexit, well have saved a fortune.

I’m not sure what your point is?

Are Irish tax payers paying off UK debts, as Fuaranch claims?

He is doing what the Brexiteers are doing, blaming Johnny Foreigner for something that is the fault of no one but the Irish government. It’s irrelvant what the UK’s debt or bank bailout is, that is just a look over there statement.

01-07-2018 1:59pm

Aegir wrote: »

Are you ok hun?

For an arch defender of Brexit, the British Empire and Unionism, your command of the Queen's English is singularly apt.

Aegir wrote: »

So, now that you know that, can you understand that the UK would have had to borrow the money to lend to Ireland, That money would attract interest. It is only right that the interest on that loan is covered by the Irish government, is it not?

Ah bless your ignorance, the British are the first people in the modern world who only want to cover the cost of the loan and not make a profit. What planet are you on? Brexiter-level understanding of economics interacts with nationalist delusions right there.

In a couple of sentences : the UK commits to making up to GBP 3,226,960,000 available to Ireland between now and 2013, at an interest rate which is based on the cost of funds to the UK plus a 2.29% margin (about 5.8% at current rates) Source: NAMA Wine Lake

Aegir wrote: »

how many UK banks did the Irish government bail out? I'l give you a clue, it was none. The only banks bailed out by the Irish government were Irish ones.

Well, as it happens, the Irish taxpayer has also been bailing out the British banks who had gambled on Irish property, which was the purpose of your loan. Funny, in a predictable way, that that went straight over your head. And hilarious that you expect the Irish to be grateful for your, em, "profit-free" "generosity" in this.

Aegir wrote: »

less of the boo hoo, feel sorry for us ****e please.

Wonderfully ironic, given you're at the top of the "look at us poor British victims of the evil EU" posters on this website.

01-07-2018 2:20pm

Taytoland wrote: »

Traitors did it to us namely in Tony Blair with his insane policies circa 2004. Brexit was his invention ultimately.

Hmmm "Third Way" Tony. So are you finally admitting that free market liberal economics is a bad thing for the local British poor and you should perhaps start voting for economically leftwing alternatives and definitely not for the party of Margaret Thatcher?

Or, as long as they dress the rightwing "help the rich" economics up in the Union Jack and say all the right nationalist things, you'll still support them?

Should we stop bullying the United Kingdom?

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