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Ulster Bank League 2018-2019 Talk/Gossip/Rumours

  • 23-05-2018 3:18pm
    #1
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭


    1A
    Lansdowne, Cork Constitution, Terenure College, Garryowen, Clontarf, Young Munster, UCD, Dublin University, Shannon, UCC
    1B
    St. Mary's College, Buccaneers, Banbridge, Ballynahinch, Old Belvedere, Naas, Ballymena, Old Wesley, Malone, City of Armagh
    2A
    Dolphin, UL Bohemians, Nenagh Ormond, Highfield, Cashel, Queen's University, Blackrock College, Galwegians, Old Crescent, Navan
    2B
    Corinthians, Greystones, Rainey Old Boys, MU Barnhall, Wanderers, Sunday's Well, Skerries, Dungannon, Sligo, Belfast Harlequins
    2C
    City of Derry, Omagh, Thomond, Malahide, Midleton, Seapoint, Bangor, Tullamore, Ballina, Bruff

    No fixtures for AIL until July and provincial leagues/cups could be next month.
    Plenty of coaching changes expected.


«134567…21

Comments

  • #2
    gilesdebond
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭gilesdebond


    Any word or feedback from clubs outside of Leinster on the restructure from 2019 - 2020?


  • #3
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gilesdebond wrote: »
    Any word or feedback from clubs outside of Leinster on the restructure from 2019 - 2020?
    Nothing yet. Dont see too many changes.
    What changes if any would you like to happen to the league?


  • #4
    gilesdebond
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭gilesdebond


    I'd leave it as is. The 10 team per league works great and every team has something to play for at the end of the season. I can understand that some clubs find it hard financially with the travel and accommodation but it's a national league.

    From what I'm hearing is the IFRU want to reduce the amount of senior clubs to two divisions of 8 and allow all the academy and development players to play every week. They then want to split the country in two and have a northern and southern conference.


  • #5
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    gilesdebond wrote: »
    I'd leave it as is. The 10 team per league works great and every team has something to play for at the end of the season. I can understand that some clubs find it hard financially with the travel and accommodation but it's a national league.

    From what I'm hearing is the IFRU want to reduce the amount of senior clubs to two divisions of 8 and allow all the academy and development players to play every week. They then want to split the country in two and have a northern and southern conference.
    10 team isnt the issue but the travel is the major issue and possibly we dont need 50 clubs playing in full country wide divisions. Proportionally its very high especially compared to number of senior clubs/top leagues in other countries.
    All academy play lot of AIL as it is. Its a big misnomer that they dont. They generally play unless injured/playing provincial sides or playing national u20s.

    Splitting country into regionalised conferences would mean those clubs are still senior.


  • #6
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,721 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    10 team isnt the issue but the travel is the major issue and possibly we dont need 50 clubs playing in full country wide divisions. Proportionally its very high especially compared to number of senior clubs/top leagues in other countries.
    All academy play lot of AIL as it is. Its a big misnomer that they dont. They generally play unless injured/playing provincial sides or playing national u20s.

    Splitting country into regionalised conferences would mean those clubs are still senior.

    This year would've been perfect for a North/South conference in 1A definitely.

    Cork Constitution, Garryowen, Young Munster, Shannon, UCC in a South conference.

    Lansdowne, Terenure College, Clontarf, UCD, Dublin University in a North conference.

    Would've brought the amount of travel needed right down.


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  • #7
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    This year would've been perfect for a North/South conference in 1A definitely.

    Cork Constitution, Garryowen, Young Munster, Shannon, UCC in a South conference.

    Lansdowne, Terenure College, Clontarf, UCD, Dublin University in a North conference.

    Would've brought the amount of travel needed right down.
    There is no need for that. We're talking about 5 teams per split. If divisions were 14/15/16 teams then a north/south split is fine but why do that in 1A especially when we're talking about all city clubs with motorway travel to/from each venue/club.
    Division 2 could be argued for considering you could be talking about clubs like City of Derry travelling to county Cork and travel wont all or even mostly be on motorway.


  • #8
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    Don’t think they want to split Division 1a or 1b geographically they want 1a & 1b as 8 team leagues and split the rest of the divisions geographically. There will be an A team league for the provinces with Wales possibly Scotland 8 games September & October plus a final and then academy players released back to clubs in November but between S&C protocol in provinces and November internationals the academy players will unlikely to be seen much or at all before Christmas I would say. IRFU may provide S&C coaching and some other coaching aspects to clubs but that won’t go down well with larger clubs in 1a or 1b who have those coaching set ups already
    Leinster I believe want current structure of 10 to remain as 8 team league would see constant battle for relegation and promotion and the rugby suffers as does developing players who are not up to speed in club systems plays etc and relegation safety becomes priority.
    IRFU calling in clubs individually in next few weeks so they will tell all such and such was agreed and requested by clubs rather than have clubs in as altogether that would get a transparent & honest view from clubs. IRFU have their agenda and will want to push it through regardless and will say how it is so much better for clubs who asked for these changes. My opinion of what is going to happen


  • #9
    GavMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭GavMan


    One thing I will agree with TLS is that travel and its cost must be a huge issue for all clubs, in particular 2a/b/c clubs.

    It might not happened but in the next couple of years but in the long term I would see 1A and 1B staying at 10 or moving to 12 teams and scrapping 2A/B/C as an AIL, move those back to provincial leagues and then a condensed All Ireland Play off. Something like top 2 from each into QF's, SF's and Final. Do a triple header on finals day. 1A 1B and what would be the play off final. straight up and down relegations/promotions.

    I dunno, maybe it doesn't make sense right now but something to consider for the future. Travel time and costs will eventually cripple small clubs in lower leagues


  • #10
    RockBoysarewii
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭RockBoysarewii


    Would having 12 teams in 1a and 1b be too much?
    I feel there’s not enough space for all the big clubs in two divisions of 10 and definitely not 8.


  • #11
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    RockBoysarewii wrote: »
    Would having 12 teams in 1a and 1b be too much?
    I feel there’s not enough space for all the big clubs in two divisions of 10 and definitely not 8.
    you can't have home and away with 12 team divisions and who exactly do you see as the "big clubs"??


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  • #12
    RockBoysarewii
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭RockBoysarewii


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    you can't have home and away with 12 team divisions and who exactly do you see as the "big clubs"??

    Why not? Are squads not big enough?


  • #13
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    RockBoysarewii wrote: »
    Why not? Are squads not big enough?
    the season is long enough as it is. Fitting in an extra 4 games isn't possible/feasible.
    Squad size isn't reason. And who are you referring to when you say there isn't room for all the big clubs??


  • #14
    RockBoysarewii
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭RockBoysarewii


    I’m sorry there are no big clubs


  • #15
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    GavMan wrote: »
    One thing I will agree with TLS is that travel and its cost must be a huge issue for all clubs, in particular 2a/b/c clubs.

    It might not happened but in the next couple of years but in the long term I would see 1A and 1B staying at 10 or moving to 12 teams and scrapping 2A/B/C as an AIL, move those back to provincial leagues and then a condensed All Ireland Play off. Something like top 2 from each into QF's, SF's and Final. Do a triple header on finals day. 1A 1B and what would be the play off final. straight up and down relegations/promotions.

    I dunno, maybe it doesn't make sense right now but something to consider for the future. Travel time and costs will eventually cripple small clubs in lower leagues
    Most clubs dont want regionalised/provincial leagues though and standards would drop a bit as you would have clubs near/at top of 2A then playing 2C sides which isnt a good thing.
    RockBoysarewii wrote: »
    I’m sorry there are no big clubs
    ???


  • #16
    Sportsmad5
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Sportsmad5


    Brendan Fanning
    June 3 2018 6:30 PM




    The All Ireland League is set to change shape to bring its top end closer to the professional game. In changes scheduled to kick in for the 2019-20 season, the new format will see two divisions of eight at the top - Premiership 1 and Premiership 2 - followed by two Championship Divisions, each of eight clubs, and then two Conference Divisions, also of eight clubs each.
    Details of the new format were sent to the clubs on Friday following ratification at a IRFU committee meeting on Thursday evening and a final consultation process will start next month.
    At the same meeting, Pa Whelan was replaced as one of Ireland's three representatives on the World Rugby council.
    Given that research and meetings with clubs on the league structure have gone on to some degree over the last two seasons it's expected that in the event of stalemate over agreement, the Union will issue invitations to clubs to take part.
    At the top end, it's planned initially to ensure representation from the four provinces of at least two clubs across the two the Premiership Divisions, and that they would be ring-fenced for two seasons. Thereafter, their make-up would be determined solely via promotion and relegation. Having a provincial spread allows for the respective provinces' academy players to be involved, which is central to the plan to align the proposed 'Premiership' with the professional game.
    In the absence of the now-discontinued B&I Cup, the schedule would see a new 'A team' competition between Irish provinces and Welsh regions played over September/October, followed by the AIL in which there would be no restriction on the number of contracted players involved. The IRFU will fund the new format in which the IRFU's regulation 6, regarding inducements to players, will be rewritten.
    The Premiership and Championship Divisions will be played on a national basis, but the plan for Conference Divisions is to structure them fresh each season to avoid long-distance travel for clubs who can't afford it.
    At the IRFU meeting it was also decided that outgoing Union president Phil Orr would replace Pa Whelan on the World Rugby council. He will be ratified, along with John O’Driscoll and women’s rep Sue Carty, at the IRFU AGM next month. This is the second time in recent years Orr has benefited from swift political change. In 2015 he was voted in from the floor of the AGM as junior vice-president when outgoing management committee chairman Finbarr Crowley had been recommended by the Union committee.
    Whelan has had a lifetime's involvement in Irish rugby, much of it with the Ireland team as coach/selector/manager and with the IRFU committee. He cut short his managerial role of the Ireland side shortly before their tour of South Africa in 1998, having been named in an alleged assault.
    It is understood his position may have come under scrutiny following the fallout from Ireland's failed bid to host the 2023 World Cup.


  • #17
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Isnt this what the Leinster clubs have already rejected??
    And you can kind of see why they would.
    But what should be in place?
    Clubs dont want regionalised divisions but something does need to change with the league.


  • #18
    Chico Flores
    Registered Users Posts: 636 ✭✭✭Chico Flores


    Any word on player movements yet or is it a bit early?

    I know Willie Staunton gone to Wanderers from Navan


  • #19
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,721 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    What's the reason behind the ringfencing for the first couple of seasons?


  • #20
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Chico Flores wrote: »
    Any word on player movements yet or is it a bit early?

    I know Willie Staunton gone to Wanderers from Navan
    Bit early
    Squidgy Black wrote: »
    What's the reason behind the ringfencing for the first couple of seasons?
    To help other provinces(Connacht/Ulster) who have weaker clubs than clubs in Munster/Leinster i assume.


  • #21
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Isnt this what the Leinster clubs have already rejected??
    And you can kind of see why they would.
    But what should be in place?
    Clubs dont want regionalised divisions but something does need to change with the league.
    I think the lack of conflict between the A games and the league is potentially very good and could really boost the popularity of the league but I can't make sense of the IRFU wanting to improve the quality of the AIL and thinking introducing 2 Ulster teams and 2 Connacht teams into 1A is the solution. 
    For next season the current provincial split in 1A is Leinster 5 Munster 5 Ulster 0 Connacht 0. If you add in 1B the provincial split of top 20 is Leinster 9 Munster 6 Ulster 4 Connacht 1. So Connacht have zero teams in 1A, 1 team in 1B and 1 team in 2A giving them 2 teams in the top 30 clubs in Ireland and the IRFU are proposing they get 2 teams in the top 8 in Ireland!


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  • #22
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Stainalert wrote: »
    I think the lack of conflict between the A games and the league is potentially very good and could really boost the popularity of the league but I can't make sense of the IRFU wanting to improve the quality of the AIL and thinking introducing 2 Ulster teams and 2 Connacht teams into 1A is the solution. 
    For next season the current provincial split in 1A is Leinster 5 Munster 5 Ulster 0 Connacht 0. If you add in 1B the provincial split of top 20 is Leinster 9 Munster 6 Ulster 4 Connacht 1. So Connacht have zero teams in 1A, 1 team in 1B and 1 team in 2A giving them 2 teams in the top 30 clubs in Ireland and the IRFU are proposing they get 2 teams in the top 8 in Ireland!
    Im not sure lack of conflict between A games and league will "really boost" leagues popularity.
    I do see why IRFU would want sides from other provinces up to the top level. Connacht clubs lose plenty to Dublin and Limerick so if they had a side in this top 8 they would/should get them back to play...
    Ulster very different.


  • #23
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Chico Flores wrote: »
    Any word on player movements yet or is it a bit early?

    I know Willie Staunton gone to Wanderers from Navan

    Too early, guys are still making their decisions. Usually I find there's some bigger dominos that have to fall (leadership/coaching) and then a flurry of activity shortly afterwards.


  • #24
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    I think the lack of conflict between the A games and the league is potentially very good and could really boost the popularity of the league but I can't make sense of the IRFU wanting to improve the quality of the AIL and thinking introducing 2 Ulster teams and 2 Connacht teams into 1A is the solution. 
    For next season the current provincial split in 1A is Leinster 5 Munster 5 Ulster 0 Connacht 0. If you add in 1B the provincial split of top 20 is Leinster 9 Munster 6 Ulster 4 Connacht 1. So Connacht have zero teams in 1A, 1 team in 1B and 1 team in 2A giving them 2 teams in the top 30 clubs in Ireland and the IRFU are proposing they get 2 teams in the top 8 in Ireland!

    I think they're looking at an improvement of quality over the long-term. I think the idea is having 2 sides per province makes it far, far easier for the IRFU to justify funding it. If they funded the current system then they'd just end up pouring money into Leinster/Munster and there are a good few clubs there who simply don't deserve it.


  • #25
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Stainalert wrote: »
    I think the lack of conflict between the A games and the league is potentially very good and could really boost the popularity of the league but I can't make sense of the IRFU wanting to improve the quality of the AIL and thinking introducing 2 Ulster teams and 2 Connacht teams into 1A is the solution. 
    For next season the current provincial split in 1A is Leinster 5 Munster 5 Ulster 0 Connacht 0. If you add in 1B the provincial split of top 20 is Leinster 9 Munster 6 Ulster 4 Connacht 1. So Connacht have zero teams in 1A, 1 team in 1B and 1 team in 2A giving them 2 teams in the top 30 clubs in Ireland and the IRFU are proposing they get 2 teams in the top 8 in Ireland!
    Im not sure lack of conflict between A games and league will "really boost" leagues popularity.
    I do see why IRFU would want sides from other provinces up to the top level. Connacht clubs lose plenty to Dublin and Limerick so if they had a side in this top 8 they would/should get them back to play...
    Ulster very different.
    Having one side in the top 8 is a bit different to having 2 teams in the top 8 and 4 in the top 16 which if I understand correctly is what is being proposed. 
    So Trinity finished 8th this season in 1A yet under the new rules wouldn't even make 1B all because of WHERE Galwegians or Corinthians play their rugby - doesn't actually matter how good Trinity are relative to Galwegians or Corinthians - that's irrelevant.


  • #26
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Having one side in the top 8 is a bit different to having 2 teams in the top 8 and 4 in the top 16 which if I understand correctly is what is being proposed. 
    So Trinity finished 8th this season in 1A yet under the new rules wouldn't even make 1B all because of WHERE Galwegians or Corinthians play their rugby - doesn't actually matter how good Trinity are relative to Galwegians or Corinthians - that's irrelevant.

    That is how I understand it as well


  • #27
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Having one side in the top 8 is a bit different to having 2 teams in the top 8 and 4 in the top 16 which if I understand correctly is what is being proposed. 
    So Trinity finished 8th this season in 1A yet under the new rules wouldn't even make 1B all because of WHERE Galwegians or Corinthians play their rugby - doesn't actually matter how good Trinity are relative to Galwegians or Corinthians - that's irrelevant.

    That is how I understand it as well
    Or take another scenario: a Munster club finishes 3rd next season in 1A behind 2 other Munster teams. That mean's they are the 3rd ranked Munster team and as such will have to play in 1B the following season even though they are the 3rd best team in the country!


  • #28
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Or take another scenario: a Munster club finishes 3rd next season in 1A behind 2 other Munster teams. That mean's they are the 3rd ranked Munster team and as such will have to play in 1B the following season even though they are the 3rd best team in the country!

    Yes

    It's not a fully meritocratic approach.


  • #29
    RuPi
    Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭RuPi


    From what I understand the top two leagues of 8 will be drawn based on league finishing position this year so the top 8 in 1A no matter where they are situated will form the top league and then the bottom two of 1A will join the top 5 from 1 B plus another Connacht side likely to be Galwegians, that is of course presuming Buccs and two Ulster sides finish in that top 5 of 1B. It won't just be the two designated sides from each province in the top league

    "At the top end, it's planned initially to ensure representation from the four provinces of at least two clubs across the two the Premiership Divisions,"


  • #30
    ArmchairQB
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭ArmchairQB


    RuPi wrote: »
    From what I understand the top two leagues of 8 will be drawn based on league finishing position this year so the top 8 in 1A no matter where they are situated will form the top league and then the bottom two of 1A will join the top 5 from 1 B plus another Connacht side likely to be Galwegians, that is of course presuming Buccs and two Ulster sides finish in that top 5 of 1B. It won't just be the two designated sides from each province in the top league.


    no not the propoosed case the views above are correct from what clubs have been told


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  • #31
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Or take another scenario: a Munster club finishes 3rd next season in 1A behind 2 other Munster teams. That mean's they are the 3rd ranked Munster team and as such will have to play in 1B the following season even though they are the 3rd best team in the country!

    Yes

    It's not a fully meritocratic approach.
    Eh it's not meritocratic at all


  • #32
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Having one side in the top 8 is a bit different to having 2 teams in the top 8 and 4 in the top 16 which if I understand correctly is what is being proposed. 
    So Trinity finished 8th this season in 1A yet under the new rules wouldn't even make 1B all because of WHERE Galwegians or Corinthians play their rugby - doesn't actually matter how good Trinity are relative to Galwegians or Corinthians - that's irrelevant.
    Oh certainly but something needs to be done to assist other provinces and there's plenty of guys whove moved from Galway/Ulster clubs to play elsewhere to play 1A and could move back. It may be tough on some clubs but thats life.
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Or take another scenario: a Munster club finishes 3rd next season in 1A behind 2 other Munster teams. That mean's they are the 3rd ranked Munster team and as such will have to play in 1B the following season even though they are the 3rd best team in the country!
    What would you want to do? Its not ideal and maybe there should be changes to take into account Munster and Leinster club scene being substantially stronger than Ulster and Connacht


  • #33
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Eh it's not meritocratic at all

    Well yes its absolutely partially meritocratic. Because in your example of a Munster team finishing 3rd, the two teams above them would still be in 1a. That's partially meritocratic.


  • #34
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Oh certainly but something needs to be done to assist other provinces and there's plenty of guys whove moved from Galway/Ulster clubs to play elsewhere to play 1A and could move back. It may be tough on some clubs but thats life.

    What would you want to do? Its not ideal and maybe there should be changes to take into account Munster and Leinster club scene being substantially stronger than Ulster and Connacht

    I'd imagine this is specifically what they're trying to address!


  • #35
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I'd imagine this is specifically what they're trying to address!
    I know!!!
    And this is only going to go a tiny bit in addressing the issues between the provinces and clubs in each


  • #36
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Having one side in the top 8 is a bit different to having 2 teams in the top 8 and 4 in the top 16 which if I understand correctly is what is being proposed. 
    So Trinity finished 8th this season in 1A yet under the new rules wouldn't even make 1B all because of WHERE Galwegians or Corinthians play their rugby - doesn't actually matter how good Trinity are relative to Galwegians or Corinthians - that's irrelevant.
    Oh certainly but something needs to be done to assist other provinces and there's plenty of guys whove moved from Galway/Ulster clubs to play elsewhere to play 1A and could move back. It may be tough on some clubs but thats life.
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Or take another scenario: a Munster club finishes 3rd next season in 1A behind 2 other Munster teams. That mean's they are the 3rd ranked Munster team and as such will have to play in 1B the following season even though they are the 3rd best team in the country!
    What would you want to do? Its not ideal and maybe there should be changes to take into account Munster and Leinster club scene being substantially stronger than Ulster and Connacht
    As you say there should be changes to take into account Munster and Leinster club scene being substantially stronger than Ulster and Connacht


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  • #37
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    I know!!!
    And this is only going to go a tiny bit in addressing the issues between the provinces and clubs in each

    Well the provinces and clubs are getting there. There's definitely light at the end of the tunnel imo, I think there's been a bit of a realisation on both ends that they are stronger together. But its not going to happen everywhere at the same time.

    I think the best case scenario is this creates a mutually beneficial relationship between provincial academies and clubs that allows both to grow together, rather than one at the expense of any other.

    That definitely cannot be achieved in a fully meritocratic system however. That means a price to pay in Leinster and Munster, it will cause war, but its the only sustainable solution. Despite being a product of a club who will be absolutely devastated by this, I think it's a great step forward.

    Nucifora has to put himself forward as the bad guy here. Might have to move to Sligo to escape fallout!


  • #38
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Oh certainly but something needs to be done to assist other provinces and there's plenty of guys whove moved from Galway/Ulster clubs to play elsewhere to play 1A and could move back. It may be tough on some clubs but thats life.

    What would you want to do? Its not ideal and maybe there should be changes to take into account Munster and Leinster club scene being substantially stronger than Ulster and Connacht

    I'd imagine this is specifically what they're trying to address!
    The league to this point has been completely meritocratic so Munster & Leinster clubs are exactly where they deserve to be. I can understand why the IRFU want Ulster & Connacht to be in the top flight but 2 each is totally over the top and likely driven by political reasons rather than quality of rugby.


  • #39
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    I know!!!
    And this is only going to go a tiny bit in addressing the issues between the provinces and clubs in each

    Well the provinces and clubs are getting there.  There's definitely light at the end of the tunnel imo, I think there's been a bit of a realisation on both ends that they are stronger together.  But its not going to happen everywhere at the same time.

    I think the best case scenario is this creates a mutually beneficial relationship between provincial academies and clubs that allows both to grow together, rather than one at the expense of any other.

    That definitely cannot be achieved in a fully meritocratic system however.  That means a price to pay in Leinster and Munster, it will cause war, but its the only sustainable solution.  Despite being a product of a club who will be absolutely devastated by this, I think it's a great step forward.

    Nucifora has to put himself forward as the bad guy here.  Might have to move to Sligo to escape fallout!
    Why do you think this will actually improve standards?


  • #40
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    The league to this point has been completely meritocratic so Munster & Leinster clubs are exactly where they deserve to be. I can understand why the IRFU want Ulster & Connacht to be in the top flight but 2 each is totally over the top and likely driven by political reasons rather than quality of rugby.

    Well. Interesting debate to be had on that one, I wouldn't want to be taking either side of it!

    But yes, there'll be absolute war.


  • #41
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Why do you think this will actually improve standards?

    I think it has the potential to improve standards. Or to be damaging.

    The way I see it improving standards is a scenario where you have 4 strong professional provincial academies each backed up by a minimum of 2 top level clubs from across the country with proper coaching consultations, pathways and support that allows the standard of coaching at all clubs to be improved. All backed by union funding.

    Standard of coaching at some clubs (even some 1a clubs) is the biggest bottleneck for club rugby in my opinion at the moment. I could see the proposed setup being a huge help in that regard.


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  • #42
    shoutman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭shoutman


    I don't suppose there is any talk on how the contracted players would be doled out to the clubs?


  • #43
    Tarf1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭Tarf1234 


    Would be interesting to see the funding level from the IRFU and how much say they want in how it is spent. Would they be picking the S&C/Coaches etc. that the clubs have to use. One thing is for sure this will mean Reg 6 will be even more widely ignored this summer.


  • #44
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    shoutman wrote: »
    I don't suppose there is any talk on how the contracted players would be doled out to the clubs?

    I'd imagine it'd be up to them


  • #45
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tarf1234 wrote: »
    Would be interesting to see the funding level from the IRFU and how much say they want in how it is spent. Would they be picking the S&C/Coaches etc. that the clubs have to use. One thing is for sure this will mean Reg 6 will be even more widely ignored this summer.

    Yeah I'd say enforcement of Reg 6 will pretty much disappear.

    I think the IRFU want to professionalise some of the more established clubs. Some of them are miles behind others in terms of their "maturity". How on earth you manage to get clubs to do that though... no idea.


  • #46
    GavMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭GavMan


    Bryan Mollen to Rock


  • #47
    stellenbosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭stellenbosch


    GavMan wrote: »
    Bryan Mollen to Rock

    Heard that-he will not play much as will be-like last year with Trinity-with the 7s-he played 2 out of 18 UBL games for Trinity last year.


  • #48
    slingerz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,275 ✭✭✭slingerz


    the issue with the new setup is the conflict with vested interests. For example, 2 Munster teams in Premiership 1 and 2 more in Premiership 2. Cork Con and Young Munster in 1 then it will be a case of UCC and one of Shannon/Garryowen in Premiership 2 as they will want to have 2 Cork and 2 Limerick clubs in the top bracket.

    Cutting down the travel for clubs in 2A/B/C makes sense from a cost perspective alone really.

    The issue with strengthening Ulster/Connacht clubs is that players from Munster/Leinster clubs currently will be directed to these clubs for the exposure to the top level as well as them being filled with Academy/Sub Academy players. Ultimately it is structuring it so that the best players will be playing and these clubs will be the 'academy' teams for the provinces. Should see more players coming through the system rather than straight academy


  • #49
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    GavMan wrote: »
    Bryan Mollen to Rock
    Strange move


  • #50
    stellenbosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭stellenbosch


    Stainalert wrote: »
    Strange move

    Yep i agree- problem for him is that Trinitys back 3 next year when all available will be Slyvestre/Kelly and captain Colm Hogan. So maybe felt he wouldnt get game time? Also maybe was persuaded by Roche who last year left Lansdowne to join Rock and is playing with him on the 7s?

    Anyway as i said he wont be playing much 15s for Rock if in the 7s squad


  • #51
    Stainalert
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭Stainalert


    stellenbosch wrote: »
    Stainalert wrote: »
    Strange move

    Yep i agree- problem for him is that Trinitys back 3 next year when all available will be Slyvestre/Kelly and captain Colm Hogan. So maybe felt he wouldnt get game time? Also maybe was persuaded by Roche who last year left Lansdowne to join Rock and is playing with him on the 7s?

    Anyway as i said he wont be playing much 15s for Rock if in the 7s squad
    Yea possibly still very strange for a sevens international to move from a 1A club to a 2A club


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