The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 08:04PM

NIMAN wrote: »

I take it that should Yes win tomorrow, then abortions will be a fast-tracked procedure on the health service? There won't be the usual waiting time that people in the health service usually experience.

Say a woman goes to her GP and is 9 weeks pregnant and says she won't be able to cope with the child. This obviously means that the HSE/GP etc only have 3 weeks to get everything sorted out.

Is it a procedure that will be able to be done in a GP surgery, or will it require a hospital visit?

up to 12 weeks it only requires a 3 day wait and taking 2 pills

Huntergonzo · 24-05-2018 08:05PM

Get out there and vote Yes tomorrow folks.....or vote No, whatever you think yourself, never really understood canvassing.

murpho999 · 24-05-2018 08:05PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

They will be allowed later than 12 weeks here too, and I'd need you to provide a source for that as everyone is different and it really depends on the woman and potential medical conditions, etc. Most will be medical but definitely not all.

Stop peddling lies.

After 12 weeks will only be allowed in case of FFA or danger to mother's life.

This has been stated ad nauseum but No side keep twisting it.

Itssoeasy · 24-05-2018 08:06PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

They will be allowed later than 12 weeks here too, and I'd need you to provide a source for that as everyone is different and it really depends on the woman and potential medical conditions, etc. Most will be medical but definitely not all.

Medical doesn't mean surgical.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2018 08:06PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

They will be allowed later than 12 weeks here too, and I'd need you to provide a source for that as everyone is different and it really depends on the woman and potential medical conditions, etc. Most will be medical but definitely not all.

The number prior to 12 weeks who cant take the pills will be a minority.
after 12 weeks a surgical abortion is required. but they will also be a minority.

namloc1980 · 24-05-2018 08:07PM

Conservatory wrote: »

But you are opening the door to it.

My lobbying won’t be heard over what the rich and powerful decide is the best course of action with abortions once the up in the air referendum is passed.

Then you would never vote yes. If your fear is opening the door then you are saying you want to keep the 8th and continue to export the problem to the UK.

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 08:07PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Allowing it for hard cases within that restricted window?

How do you prove a hard case?

Digital_Guy · 24-05-2018 08:08PM

NIMAN wrote: »

What do people think is the chance that if Yes wins, abortion will be used as contraception by some people?

I would guess very small numbers, but I was reading a piece online last night from Irish women in the UK arguing both sides, one worked in the NHS and said she knew of one woman who has had 8 abortions.

I know numpties like her are the extreme examples, but I'm sure there will be enough stupid ones who simply don't take contraception seriously enough, knowing they have an escape route should they get pregnant.

8? Absolutely morally bankrupt person. Tragic and enabled by a culture of abortion, one where it's totally acceptable to have one (or 8!), and they are freely available. Would she have had any if it wasn't so socially acceptable? Or that number of them?

Digital_Guy · 24-05-2018 08:09PM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

How do you prove a hard case?

Should be pretty easy when the yes campaign have talked about them endlessly!

Hotblack Desiato · 24-05-2018 08:10PM

Jonas Tangy Pantry wrote: »

Honestly seems like someone who's temperamentally not suited to public life at all.

Yes but the funny thing is that John Waters is an incorrigible attention seeker.

Conservatory · 24-05-2018 08:10PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Then you would never vote yes. If your fear is opening the door then you are saying you want to keep the 8th and continue to export the problem to the UK.

I’d vote yes if the referendum safeguarded another vote on the committee decision. The committee decision to me seems to be

“abortion no questions asked for all we know she could have been raped”

I can’t vote yes for that. I’m not here to pick sides I guess I’m here to complain about how the referendum was put together.

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 08:11PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Should be pretty easy when the yes campaign have talked about them endlessly!

So you also have no idea how you would legislate for rape without a 12 week window?

Digital_Guy · 24-05-2018 08:12PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Then you would never vote yes. If your fear is opening the door then you are saying you want to keep the 8th and continue to export the problem to the UK.

Or, that you want something in between that's less extreme for a lot of people.

gmisk · 24-05-2018 08:12PM

No voters..... standard.
https://twitter.com/elaineroisin/status/999580415554916353?s=19
Quares!!!

https://twitter.com/timmydooley/status/999344598274269185?s=19

Try_harder · 24-05-2018 08:13PM

Like the Marriage Referendum, some people just cant own their No, and blame the Yes side for them voting No!

Fooling no one!

namloc1980 · 24-05-2018 08:13PM

Conservatory wrote: »

I’d vote yes if the referendum safeguarded another vote on the committee decision. The committee decision to me seems to be

“abortion no questions asked for all we know she could have been raped”

I can’t vote yes for that. I’m not here to pick sides I guess I’m here to complain about how the referendum was put together.

I think you need to read up on what a referendum is and what you're actually voting on. And this committee you talk about are not in any way the decision makers here.

Nettle Soup · 24-05-2018 08:13PM

Has anyone got a link to Ronan Mullen in the Pat Kenny debate where he judged the young woman that got an abortion in the UK? I want to show it to someone.

Digital_Guy · 24-05-2018 08:13PM

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

So you also have no idea how you would legislate for rape without a 12 week window?

Au contraire, I most definitely do and I referred to this earlier. If someone has been raped, all they should need to do is sign a document to that effect. That's it, no questions asked.

Try_harder · 24-05-2018 08:15PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Has anyone got a link to Ronan Mullen in the Pat Kenny debate where he judged the young woman that got an abortion in the UK? I want to show it to someone.

https://twitter.com/naomiohreally/status/999440104644136961?s=21

Conservatory · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

I think you need to read up on what a referendum is and what you're actually voting on. And this committee you talk about are not in any way the decision makers here.

I think you need to see how the world really works.

namloc1980 · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Or, that you want something in between that's less extreme for a lot of people.

Let's say the proposed legislation was very restrictive and only dealt with hard cases. You still need to vote yes tomorrow to get rid of the 8th to allow that. But then in the future another government could liberalise the law. I think a lot of No voters genuinely don't understand what tomorrow's vote is about.

Cupcake_Crisis · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Au contraire, I most definitely do and I referred to this earlier. If someone has been raped, all they should need to do is sign a document to that effect. That's it, no questions asked.

So, you don’t trust them to have choice over their wombs, but you do trust them to not lie about being raped?

SusieBlue · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

I’ll just leave this here....

Try_harder · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

Au contraire, I most definitely do and I referred to this earlier. If someone has been raped, all they should need to do is sign a document to that effect. That's it, no questions asked.

Whats to stop fallen women and jezzabelles exploiting your system? The no camp would cry!

igCorcaigh · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Has anyone got a link to Ronan Mullen in the Pat Kenny debate where he judged the young woman that got an abortion in the UK? I want to show it to someone.

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/999440104644136961

gmisk · 24-05-2018 08:16PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Has anyone got a link to Ronan Mullen in the Pat Kenny debate where he judged the young woman that got an abortion in the UK? I want to show it to someone.

https://twitter.com/tvcritics/status/999413185068355585?s=19

Berserker · 24-05-2018 08:18PM

NIMAN wrote: »

What do people think is the chance that if Yes wins, abortion will be used as contraception by some people?

I would guess very small numbers, but I was reading a piece online last night from Irish women in the UK arguing both sides, one worked in the NHS and said she knew of one woman who has had 8 abortions.

I know numpties like her are the extreme examples, but I'm sure there will be enough stupid ones who simply don't take contraception seriously enough, knowing they have an escape route should they get pregnant.

It'll depend on the cost of having an abortion. If it's free then people will use it as another option.

gctest50 wrote: »

This isn't the UK though

The Netherlands has among the lowest rate

The RoI is far more like the UK than the Netherlands culturally.

Dressing gown · 24-05-2018 08:18PM

Digital_Guy wrote: »

That's an easy one. Just replace 'abortion' with any other word. For example; 'drinking'.

Ireland has a culture of drinking - it's socially very acceptable, not at all frowned upon, really prevalent, etc.

Spain doesn't (or pick another nation). Being drunk is frowned upon, people don't tend to drink to excess as a matter of course, alcohol is more seen as a complement to a meal than something to go out and binge on.

Missing the crucial part there - 20 women she *knows*. So she has 20 friends who have had abortions, and they've clearly talked about it, discussed it, said 'oh I had one too', etc. Reflective of a culture of abortion.

Do you know 20 women who have had abortions? I am 99.99% certain you don't, and I'd say there is almost nobody in Ireland who does. Why? Because there is a very low abortion rate (relatively at least), and no culture of abortion - one where it is really acceptable and commonplace to have one.

Well I did say I was leaning towards no. And the long posts are a way of teasing things out for myself as well.

I’m a few pages behind but 1 in 20 pregnancies is not low. We may have a low abortion rate compared to other countries, but it’s not exactly rare is it? If you know 19*20 women of child bearing age there’s every chance you know 20 women that have had an abortion....im pretty sure most people of child bearing age know 400 others? Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean you don’t know the women that have had them.

gctest50 · 24-05-2018 08:19PM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Has anyone got a link to Ronan Mullen in the Pat Kenny debate where he judged the young woman that got an abortion in the UK? I want to show it to someone.

Ronan Mullen : Saoirse you deserve love and respect regardless of what you have done

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/999440104644136961

From 1996 to 2001, Mullen worked in the Communications Office of the Archdiocese of Dublin and appeared as a spokesperson for the Archdiocese and Cardinal Desmond Connell.

Cardinal Connell was later found to have covered up numerous instances of child sex abuse

jill_valentine · 24-05-2018 08:19PM

Try_harder wrote: »

Whats to stop fallen women and jezzabelles exploiting your system? The no camp would cry!

The No side seem to love suggesting alternatives the No side would or even did furiously oppose. It's... weird.

The 8th amendment referendum - part 4

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