Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

ted1 · 24-05-2018 08:53AM

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I know there's bound to be a morbid fascination with him and the crime he committed and may have committed previously, but I keep waiting to see or hear Jastines story.
Jastine was not just a victim, but a young woman in a new country, with hopes and dreams and a full life before he took it from her.
I googled Jastines name before posting here and all I got back were stories on her death and profiles on him. I do wish the media would give some focus to Jastines life before her kidnapping.
RIP Jastine. I hope your family find some peace in the support they've received.

Google her, then click on tools then set a search range that predates Saturday

sightband · 24-05-2018 08:56AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Who officially said that?
The Garda authorities never said that.

it was mentioned here several times, and in some papers. it’s gospel.

i was talking to the lad that sold him the coke in a boozer last night, he told me had had shergar in the boot of the qashqai also who apparently was alive and well at the time and due to run in the 3.15 in doncaster the following day.

ted1 · 24-05-2018 08:56AM

Tyson Fury wrote: »

How did he lunge at an unarmed traffic guard when he was sitting in his car?

Because he may have gone back into his car at the time. You don’t know what happened between him being at the boot and getting into the seat. ( where he was probably slitting his wrists) and a shoulder **** would have stopped him

ted1 · 24-05-2018 08:58AM

DMcL1971 wrote: »

I see the gofundme page for Jastine’s family is doing very well. Has there been one set up for the Hennessy family? Regardless of what he has done, he left a wife and two innocent children behind. They will have to live with the stigma and emotional scarring of what he has done for the rest of their lives.

Set one up if you like, but I can’t image many will contribute.
The fund was set up to cover the 10k repatriation costs to bring her body to the Philippines

Cunning Stunt · 24-05-2018 09:23AM

ted1 wrote: »

DMcL1971 wrote: »

I see the gofundme page for Jastine’s family is doing very well. Has there been one set up for the Hennessy family? Regardless of what he has done, he left a wife and two innocent children behind. They will have to live with the stigma and emotional scarring of what he has done for the rest of their lives.

Set one up if you like, but I can’t image many will contribute.
The fund was set up to cover the 10k repatriation costs to bring her body to the Philippines

I think it's a good idea. Cant help but pity his wife and kids and wonder how the hell she can get their lives back on track after this. I read in todays news they are probing whether Hennessey had bern active on dating sites. The ****e that his poor wife will have to read and hear now, all coming out in the wash

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-05-2018 09:44AM

I wouldn’t contribute a cent towards his family. It was his duty to look after his family, not everyone else’s.

The_Kew_Tour · 24-05-2018 09:54AM

Reati wrote: »

Why is this thread going around in circles. Gsoc released a statement of what happen. Any chance people would read that and stop speculation.

A detective fired the shot (they are mostly all armed).
He fired a single shot.
It was aimed at the murders shoulder, where it hit.
The bullet hit his collar bone and deflected internal and hit an artory.
This caused the murderer to die shortly after.

He was correct to fire as the murderer was acting irrationally, armed with a knife, threatened himself and those on scene.

People can talk ****e all they want here but the Garda in question followed correct operating procedure to the tee and did the right thing in the situation. He has nothing to be guilty about and certainly doesn't deserve the uneducated criticism this thread has doled out.

Post of the Thread

tretorn · 24-05-2018 10:01AM

I suppose in fairness though this is what the Gardai said happened.

Is this based on a post mortem report.

Reati · 24-05-2018 10:24AM

tretorn wrote: »

I suppose in fairness though this is what the Gardai said happened.

Is this based on a post mortem report.

To be clear, t's not what the Gardai said. It's what GSOC said and they are not the same body. It's based on the post mortuem and the footage of the incident from the traffic policing vehicle.

allthedoyles · 24-05-2018 10:30AM

wonder what distance was there between the detective / target at that moment ?

Green Peter · 24-05-2018 10:33AM

allthedoyles wrote:

wonder what distance was there between the detective / target at that moment ?

Hold on and I'll get my measuring tape!

Green Peter · 24-05-2018 10:37AM

There are people on here questioning the split second decision the armed Garda had to make before he fired the shot and days later they are still asking stupid repeated questions that have been answered. Thank God these people are not in our police force.

RasTa · 24-05-2018 10:40AM

As i said earlier and confirmed by newstalk on Monday. Also confirmed by gsoc. He was shot whilst sitting in his car. P45, no defence or moved away from arms as he doesn't know how to handle them

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-05-2018 10:42AM

RasTa wrote: »

As i said earlier and confirmed by newstalk on Monday. Also confirmed by gsoc. He was shot whilst sitting in his car. P45, no defence or moved away from arms as he doesn't know how to handle them

Are you serious? He murdered someone and was killed, and you want a man who acted in a tense situation with an armed murderer fired? He was dead right. It’s a pity he wasn’t shot before he took that beautiful girls life

K.Flyer · 24-05-2018 10:46AM

If the Garda wanted to kill him, I'm sure a head-shot might have been a far easier target, instead he went for the shoulder.
It was One shot, only One shot, not two or three as per earlier inaccurate reports.
In my opinion, especially after hearing the official report, the Garda did what was necessary and required given the gravity of the situation, he should feel no guilt or shame.

Captain Obvious · 24-05-2018 10:46AM

RasTa wrote: »

As i said earlier and confirmed by newstalk on Monday. Also confirmed by gsoc. He was shot whilst sitting in his car. P45, no defence or moved away from arms as he doesn't know how to handle them

Sure if he gets fired you can join in his place and show them all how it's done.

Reati · 24-05-2018 10:50AM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

Are you serious? He murdered someone and was killed, and you want a man who acted in a tense situation with an armed murderer fired? He was dead right. It’s a pity he wasn’t shot before he took that beautiful girls life

I've learned these past few weeks, You can't reason with stupid. Luckily, the GSOC team understand what the real world is like outside the keyboard warrior bubble.

ted1 · 24-05-2018 10:51AM

RasTa wrote: »

As i said earlier and confirmed by newstalk on Monday. Also confirmed by gsoc. He was shot whilst sitting in his car. P45, no defence or moved away from arms as he doesn't know how to handle them

You don’t know what happened prior to him getting back in his car. It sounds like he was reaching for something.

Reati · 24-05-2018 11:01AM

K.Flyer wrote: »

If the Garda wanted to kill him, I'm sure a head-shot might have been a far easier target, instead he went for the shoulder.
It was One shot, only One shot, not two or three as per earlier inaccurate reports.
In my opinion, especially after hearing the official report, the Garda did what was necessary and required given the gravity of the situation, he should feel no guilt or shame.

Exactly. For those of us who have firearms experience and esp a variety of handgun experience (god bless america!) if the garda was wreckless, nervous or angry enough to GTA style kill the murderer a P226 (or P99C not sure what he was carrying) he could have easily put 5 or 10 rounds in his head in a few seconds.

That's not what he did. He considered the situation, what the person in front of was accused of, what doing at the time and took the correct, legal and morally sound action.

Deusexmachina · 24-05-2018 11:09AM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

I wouldn’t contribute a cent towards his family. It was his duty to look after his family, not everyone else’s.

That kind of righteous indignation always rings hollow and callous.

There are many victims of this crime - including Jastine, her family, friends and the wider community - but also including this mans wife, children and family and the Guard who had to shoot him.

tara73 · 24-05-2018 11:10AM

also, the detective and guards around the car obviously couldn't exactly figure out whether Jastine was in the car or not. I guess it's a big point people forget here atm. there was the risk for them he takes her hostage or starts attacking her too.

also they couldn't know 100% whether he has a gun with him or not. In one article I read the guard finally fired the shot when MH reached out to the passenger seat next to him which looked like he wanted to grab something.

This to me makes perfect sense. They surely shouted to him to lay down the knife and get out of the car with hands up more than once. He didn't follow, instead at some stage he grabbed to the passenger seat. So that's when they shot.

Just my conclusion of events from what was posted in the newspapers why they (hopefully rightful) shot.

ted1 · 24-05-2018 11:12AM

Footage of him walking through the car park in Ballybrack after leaving leaving the ramblers shortly before he kidnapped Jastine. Is on the independent

wellwhynot · 24-05-2018 11:13AM

I think setting up a go fund me account for the Hennessy family is a very bad idea. I have sympathy for his wife and children. I heard on the radio she was considering separating from him and moving back to her home country before this happened. No doubt she will now and I am glad she has this option. I will not be contributing a penny to her relocation or his funeral costs though. I think it sets a bad precedent. What about Larry Murphy’s family or the person who murdered Ana’s family? Should they get a GoFundMe page too?

orangerhyme · 24-05-2018 11:21AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

I think setting up a go fund me account for the Hennessey family is a very bad idea. I have sympathy for his wife and children. I heard on the radio she was considering separating from him and moving back to her home town country before this happened. No doubt she will now and I am glad she has this option. I will not be contributing a penny to her relocation or his funeral costs though. I think it sets a bad precedent. What about Larry Murphy’s family or the person who murdered Ana’s family? Should they get a GoFundMe page too?

Its a difficult dilemma really but I think its best not to raise money for his family, although they are victims also.
Id assume shed move back to the UK with her kids also.
I think the Gofundme page would just be people leaving nasty comments etc so not worth it really.

kippy · 24-05-2018 11:30AM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

So GSOC have confirmed that Mr. Hennessy was in the vehicle when he was shot.

GSOC will now assess what actions led to the Detective using his weapon. AFAIK, there have been three reported reasons by the media.

1. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he believed the victim was in the vehicle and under imminent mortal threat. Which turned out not to be the case.

2. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as a result of Mr. Hennessy threatening and lunging at an unarmed AGS member with a stanley knife. This is not the case as Mr. Hennessey was contained and shot in the vehicle.

3. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he bent down in the footwell of the car, asessed as reaching for a firearm. This also turned out not to be the case.

Ultimately, the investigation may focus on the impact of the round, which has been reported as entering Mr. Hennessey's rear shoulder, which caused the fatality.

To most people it wont matter why he was shot as Mr. Hennessey's actions were deserving of that fate. The investigators may take a different view.

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Like it or not, the investigators will remove all emotions from the case and scrutinise the Detectives actions, which is their function.

Now before I get lashed out of it here by obviously more knowledgeable internet folk. This is an impartial view and an angle which some might not be aware of or is not popular to acknowledge.

Firstly, I am not "anti-AGS", before some of you label me as it. I have no agenda and I have never been "done by de Gards".

Secondly, I have professionally worked alongside AGS in various roles over the years and know how professional, well trained and capable they are, I would wager many here have not.

Thirdly, I have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon.

Forthly, I actually have been in a situation where it was 50/50 whether or not to squeeze the trigger myself, unlike most here. So I am aware of what the Detective was facing and what was potentially going through his head.

Finally, this is the reality that the Detective now finds himself in. That squeeze of the trigger and him performing his duty is now under the microscope, it matters not what we think.

The questions GSOC will want answered are:

1. Why Mr. Hennessey was shot in the back in a contained environment which at that time, posed limited immediate threat to life outside of the vehicle. Will GSOC decide it was excessive use of force and disproportionate to the threat at the time?

2. Why did the Detective not clear and ready his weapon as trained, especially if he assessed that there was an immediate threat to life. This contradicts his actions in Para 1.

Im hoping scenario 3 above is the official AGS line. Hopefully the Detective can rest easy and the investigation is awarded in his favour. He performed his duty and shouldnt be penalised for it, despite reported inconsistencies in the event and any potential technicalities with the use of force.

I would hope it wont cause other members of the force to hessitate to act in the future.

Ultimately the officer had a split second to react to whatever threat he felt existed and there were any number of real time threats that could have existed at the time and any number of warnings that were issued to the suspect.
I would hope that other officers who have charge of firearms in similar situations with similar variables NOT be dissuaded from using their firearms to be honest.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-05-2018 11:31AM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

That kind of righteous indignation always rings hollow and callous.

There are many victims of this crime - including Jastine, her family, friends and the wider community - but also including this mans wife, children and family and the Guard who had to shoot him.

And in my opinion it’s not callous to direct my sympathy to two people who have to bury their only child or the man who went to work on Sunday morning to keep us safe and came home with blood on his hands.

I pity that freaks kids and wife, sucks to have a physco living in the house and not realizing it but I wouldn’t contribute to a fund that would help bury him in a nice plot and give him a good send off. They can have my sympathy of being close to someone capable of such a heinous act but why should they get donations on the back of someone they loved murdering an innocent woman?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 24-05-2018 11:43AM

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Barry, assuming it was a pistol and not a revolver I'd be wondering was the shot an ND and why wasn't IA's carried out.

If it was a pistol, forget the above obviously.

o1s1n · 24-05-2018 11:47AM

Ulises Juicy Vegetation wrote: »

Barry, assuming it was a pistol and not a revolver I'd be wondering was the shot an ND and why wasn't IA's carried out.

If it was a pistol, forget the above obviously.

Indeed, standard issue now is a Sig pistol but some older detectives still use S&W revolvers. (Which would be in line with no ejection of a casing)

24-05-2018 12:00PM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

I wouldn’t contribute a cent towards his family. It was his duty to look after his family, not everyone else’s.

That's a fair enough stance for you to take personally but they certainly are victims in this whole sordid event too. You'd have to feel horrendous for them.

24-05-2018 12:04PM

RasTa wrote: »

As i said earlier .... P45

As many many others have said, you haven't a clue. There'll be no P45 at all. The bullet ricocheted from his shoulder into this head. It's not as simple as ''Clear...take the shot!'' and then you incapacitate him and everyone clap and cheers.

Also 99.9% of us here wouldn't be cut out for that job.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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