Under-age training misconduct

Ardent · 06-05-2018 11:53pm #1

Interesting article today about alleged mistreatment of under-age players at St Mary's GAA club in Athenry, Galway. The author pulls no punches, naming and shaming all involved and providing full transcripts of conversations. It's pretty shocking stuff - both the alleged conduct towards these kids and the subsequent attitude from the club's hierarchy.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-low-lie-the-fields-of-athenry-the-gaa-story-every-parent-will-want-to-read-36879150.html

Without naming names and all that, I wonder how widespread this behaviour is throughout the rest of the country?

rgace · 07-05-2018 8:24am

"our son and another player were asked to stay back in the dressing room by John Cloonan. John shoved the door out, and at this point our son and the other player were on their own in the dressing room with John. What happened next is as follows: John Cloonan told our son and the other player that they "got a jersey to play today, but it would be the last time they would get an Athenry jersey"."

These were 10 year old children, what a complete gobshíte.

evolving_doors · 07-05-2018 8:52am

The club were trying to close ranks and fob it off.
Enter Paul kimmage :pac:

lawred2 · 07-05-2018 9:00am

rgace wrote: »

"our son and another player were asked to stay back in the dressing room by John Cloonan. John shoved the door out, and at this point our son and the other player were on their own in the dressing room with John. What happened next is as follows: John Cloonan told our son and the other player that they "got a jersey to play today, but it would be the last time they would get an Athenry jersey"."

These were 10 year old children, what a complete gobshíte.

Billy big balls bullying kids

Probably referred to as a legend about town

krazyklown · 07-05-2018 9:12am

Some serious insinuations there. Sad to read. I assume the angle portrayed by the indo is accurate as they would hardly run a story of such a serious nature without verification. I hadn't heard the content portrayed here, but I had heard anecdotally that the football side of the club get treated miserably (allegedly). The attitude of the exec is alarming. Whatever about a guy doing a solo run and acting inappropriately, the exec come across very poorly. It's almost exactly what's happened to the garda whistle-blower... They complain locally but issue isn't taken seriously. They escalate and the club hierarchy circle the bandwagons and attempt to discredit the complaintants. I can imagine the atmosphere there is toxic with all of this going on, small area like that.
In another way I can see how the exec are in a very difficult position. It's so hard to get help running the club, I don't doubt the two guys do a huge amount, and probably feel a certain amount of ownership. The incident in the dressing room sounds sinister. That guy shouldn't be let near kids, he sounds like a bully.

big_drive · 07-05-2018 9:22am

Interesting read.
Easy to see why it’s hard to get volunteers in clubs , it’s dangerous these days. You could be accused of anything, often falsely

I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

jimd2 · 07-05-2018 9:32am

big_drive wrote: »

Interesting read.
Easy to see why it’s hard to get volunteers in clubs , it’s dangerous these days. You could be accused of anything, often falsely

I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

Hmmm, I read the full article and would not be coming down on the side of the club on this. I do agree that there were mistakes made all round letting the younger guys move up to under 14 but the circling of the wagons and obfuscation from the club cannot be condoned.

Tell me how · 07-05-2018 9:41am

Paul Kimmage is a real journalist. And a very good one at that.

Tell me how · 07-05-2018 9:50am

big_drive wrote:

Overall Iâ€™d be falling on the side of the club from what Iâ€™ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

I agree that stories can be twisted. And that some parents can be unfairly argumentative.

But, the clubs behavior in inviting other parents to a meeting and then posting a false statement on the outcome of the proceedings was attempting to influence and twist events as much if not more so then any action by the complainants.

Also, a letter signed by 16 parents that the atmosphere wasn't ideal is quite telling.

Ardent · 07-05-2018 10:00am

big_drive wrote: »

Interesting read.
Easy to see why it’s hard to get volunteers in clubs , it’s dangerous these days. You could be accused of anything, often falsely

I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

Whatever about which side of these stories you believe, you can't excuse the club's behaviour in dealing with the complaints - for example, rallying support at an impromptu meeting to which the complainants were not invited. What were they trying to achieve there? Is that how you run a club?

Hitman3000 · 07-05-2018 10:08am

big_drive wrote:

I believe the club could handle it better but I think youâ€™d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

So despite reading the full article, you believe it's the parents whom may be the problem?
Having been the parent of a child who picked up a hurl at 4 and dropped it at 13 because of the crap he and his fellow players dealt with this behaviour is not exclusive to Athenry.

Gravelly · 07-05-2018 10:10am

Kimmage is one of a very, very small number of real journalists in Ireland. In fact, Gemma O'Doherty is the only other one that springs to mind.

I've coached underage and youth in both football and soccer for years, and this article angers me a lot. I've come across the attitude displayed by so many coaches in both codes. There are some coaches that are in coaching either for the glory of it, or to promote theirs and others kids. This is a simple fact. I've seen teams with a poisonous atmosphere around them, where winning was all (unless little Jimmy the nephew needed to get on the team, then winning became secondary), and where most of the players were miserable most of the time. I know of dozens of very good players who ended up dropping out of sport because the coach they had either didn't know what he was doing, or was deliberately excluding them for nefarious reasons. One of the reasons I gave up GAA coaching was because of this attitude, as it is nearly impossible to get a GAA club to take a complaint against a "good club man" seriously. It can be problematic in soccer too, but usually it isn't as bad (mainly dues to the fact that GAA clubs often have lads that are the third, fourth or fifth generation of the family involved, whereas that's not as common in soccer, and there is far more of an omerta culture in the GAA than in soccer).

Weepsie · 07-05-2018 10:33am

big_drive wrote: »

I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

This they can, and parents can be the biggest nightmares for teachers becasue of what their darlings might have done.

But GAA (and Soccer etc) clubs around the country have the odd bully who thinks it's okay to treat underage players like they are inter county stars. They've a win at all cost mentality and suck the fun out of it for kids. Some of the parent on the sidelines don't help either.

For all the good volunteers, who give up their time and try to let them enjoy it, there's the occasional prat more worried about their own legend and winning whatever they can at the end of the day.

Edit: Gravelly said it better!

nice_guy80 · 07-05-2018 10:34am

Pity he wouldn't do a piece on all the money being got by private boarding schools in South Dublin to renovate their private sports grounds when other clubs in rural Ireland can't afford to fix showers or mower to the pitch

Tell me how · 07-05-2018 10:37am

nice_guy80 wrote:

Pity he wouldn't do a piece on all the money being got by private boarding schools in South Dublin to renovate their private sports grounds when other clubs in rural Ireland can't afford to fix showers or mower to the pitch

If he did, some would say it was a pity that he didn't do a piece on allegations of bullying amongst underage GAA clubs....

The_Honeybadger · 07-05-2018 10:51am

I really can’t see how anyone would take the side of the club here. Whatever the facts are, the kids and parents involved deserved a fair hearing. The attempted whitewash by the club officials and the ordeal at the hotel is shameful quite frankly. The instigators have no business running a sweet shop let alone a sports club with a duty of care to children.

I too can see how hard it is to get people to volunteer for things, that does not mean that bullying, intimidation and foul language in the course of training and mentoring children should be swept under the carpet. If even half of what is in the article is true, that man should not be training kids.

Squatter · 07-05-2018 11:30am

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Pity he wouldn't do a piece on all the money being got by private boarding schools in South Dublin to renovate their private sports grounds when other clubs in rural Ireland can't afford to fix showers or mower to the pitch

Translation: "look over there - I don't want you looking under this stone"

Anyway, that kind of begrudging article is the preserve of the SIndo's Gene Kerrigan so I assume that the excellent Paul Kimmage didn't want to stray into a fellow journalist's specialist area.

Bonniedog · 07-05-2018 11:39am

Kimmage lives in hope of finding some major scandal in the GAA that will revive his fortunes. Thousands of words about something that concerns unacceptable behaviour by some individuals in a club. Something the club ought to have sorted out in a better manner. Hardly the basis for a verbose feature in a Sunday newspaper.

TCDStudent1 · 07-05-2018 11:58am

Taking an extract from the report:

This compassion for the respondents was a response, curiously, that had not been extended to any of the complainants, who all say they were neither invited to the meeting, nor asked how they were feeling, and whatever the initial intention, it wasn't long before the gathering had become a rally for the troops as the audience nailed their colours to the mast:

"I've no problem with Paddy or John."

"I'll second that."

"The young lads are mad about Paddy."

"John Cloonan is an absolute saint in my eyes.

"If the players could put half the fire in their bellies that Paddy Kelly has there'd be a lot more silverware around here."

"John Cloonan does savage work. We couldn't replace him with three men."

"I've two lads and they worship Paddy."

"Bad language is part of the game."

"If these guys are punished you'll get nobody to do anything next year. The club will fall apart!"

Then the spotlight turned to the complainants.

"I think ye should tell us who's making the complaint?"

"Is it true they bypassed the club and went straight to Croke Park?"

"It sounds like an agenda."

"Are they here?"

(Laughs)

"What was their evidence like?"

"Were they well prepared?"

"It's hard to know," the secretary replied.

"That's open to interpretation," the treasurer said.

The audience laughed.

does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.

Tell me how · 07-05-2018 12:09pm

TCDStudent1 wrote:

does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.

I'm sure if the club had evidence that the complainants were invited, in the form of text histories, then that would have been used to support their claims.

Gravelly · 07-05-2018 12:09pm

Circle them wagons boys, circle ‘em tight.

The_Honeybadger · 07-05-2018 12:14pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Taking an extract from the report:

does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.

I saw that as well. The very fact that there was a meeting in the first place is what I’d be more worried about. It appears to have been a rally of sorts, and shows a worrying lack of good judgement by club officials.

I am going to assume that most of the facts presented in the article are true, they would never have printed it otherwise.

TCDStudent1 · 07-05-2018 12:16pm

mickeyk wrote: »

I saw that as well. The very fact that there was a meeting in the first place is what I’d be more worried about. It appears to have been a rally of sorts, and shows a worrying lack of good judgement by club officials.

I am going to assume that most of the facts presented in the article are true, they would never have printed it otherwise.

Aah yeah, I'd assume the same. I just thought it looked strange that there were all these quotes without being attributed to some sort of source. However, I have to admit I did find myself getting a little confused during the article as there were so many committees etc.

big_drive · 07-05-2018 12:21pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So despite reading the full article, you believe it's the parents whom may be the problem?
Having been the parent of a child who picked up a hurl at 4 and dropped it at 13 because of the crap he and his fellow players dealt with this behaviour is not exclusive to Athenry.

Yes that’s the conclusion I’d come to. But again as I said I’d need to know the parents involved to know what sort they were. I’d be putting money on it though they’d be awkward, the sort who couldn’t accept their child being a sub because they actually weren’t much good.

Happyilylost · 07-05-2018 12:22pm

big_drive wrote:

I wouldnâ€™t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldnâ€™t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. Iâ€™m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

As a teacher you would know the gentleman involved broke the biggest no no involved with coaching kids "NEVER BE ALONE WITH KIDS. NO EXCUSES." I put it in capitals because that's the way it is in the handbook when you do the child protection course. You say the story the kids could of been inaccurate. And it very well could have. And it very well could of been a hell of a lot worse. The rule is there to protect kids and protect the volunteers involved.

Hitman3000 · 07-05-2018 12:22pm

Ardent wrote:

Without naming names and all that, I wonder how widespread this behaviour is throughout the rest of the country?

Just change the name of the club. Same behaviour.

Tell me how · 07-05-2018 12:27pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Just change the name of the club. Same behaviour.

I wouldn't be as negative as that. It's like all walks of life. There are examples of positive and negative behaviour.

I know of a very similar case in a junior soccer club but in that case, I think the parents were at fault and had an ulterior motive.

But I know of several cases of coaches involved in underage sports where it is selfless and ran in a way which is for the benefit of all participants.

The_Honeybadger · 07-05-2018 12:29pm

big_drive wrote: »

Yes that’s the conclusion I’d come to. But again as I said I’d need to know the parents involved to know what sort they were. I’d be putting money on it though they’d be awkward, the sort who couldn’t accept their child being a sub because they actually weren’t much good.

Whatever the dynamics involved, the behaviour of the club officers and members is inexcusable.

It said that 16 parents signed the letter outlining concerns, I doubt they are all sore that their young lad wasn’t the star player.

Are Am Eye · 07-05-2018 1:29pm

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Taking an extract from the report:

does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.

Usually whenever you see detailed quotes like that there is an audio recording of a meeting. No doubt somebody recorded it in on their phone. Somebody who was at that time or subsequently became sympathetic to the parents who made the complaint. And the recording/transcript was passed on to Kimmage.

One of the facets of modern life when you speak you have to assume you are being recorded.

Bonzo Delaney · 07-05-2018 2:17pm

So the crux of this mountain of a mole hill is
a mentor cursed at the 10 yr olds in training - a no no but was a reason given for his colourful language.

Juve seceratry had words with two 10 yr olds alone in dressing room. See this is the problem wtf was he thinking . Even to speak positively to children it's imperative it's done in adult company . And should of known better. I can totaly understand his frustration with having to field the players but a bit of cop on would of saved the club and all involved the hassle and embarrassment with it going public.
In my own opinion what parent would let their 10yr old compete with u 14s hurlers . I don't care if theyre the great great grand child of Christy Ring. It's dangerous .

What ever the club done afterwards to defend/ coat over the incident was always going to look bad.

munchkin_utd · 07-05-2018 2:38pm

whats worrying to me is the win at all costs attitude at u10 when really kids should be playing as much ball as possible in small go games type leagues and not flat out inter club competitions.

Talking about putting fire in their belly and getting silverware. They are only 8 or 9 years old ffs.

Tell me how · 07-05-2018 2:45pm

munchkin_utd wrote:

Talking about putting fire in their belly and getting silverware. They are only 8 or 9 years old ffs.

It shouldn't have to be said but overly competitive coaches, and parents ruin games for a lot of children.

They've tried an initiative, particularly in Dublin district soccer league I think, of the "silent sideline" where there's no be neither encouragement or admonishment of players, referees or coaches as play goes on.

Unfortunately, lots of adults try to live vicariously through their own children or those they coach.

The ethos of "it's how you play the game" and "winning at all costs" are very hard to integrate.

Choochtown · 07-05-2018 4:05pm

An article about very little that has been sensationalised to sell the paper...

"The GAA story every parent will want to read" was the headline yesterday and I'll admit I fell for it...

2 full broadsheet pages to tell us that 1 mentor had used the f word during a training session and another had spoken to 2 players on an Under 14 panel without another adult present! I'm not excusing what happened but that article is way way over the top.

Kimmage typically sets the drama with a quote from George Orwell's "Animal Farm" inviting the reader to only imagine the horrors that lie ahead ...

And what does lie ahead is a club volunteer who used the f word and wrote a letter of apology for doing so and another volunteer who spoke to 2 underage players alone and so then went on a refresher course on the safeguarding of children.

This is supposed to be the BIG story to discredit the GAA!!???

Two points from the story that did stand out for me although Kimmage does his best to hide them amongst his fake fury and concern and Orwell quotes were:

1. From the club: "Our policy with Under 12s is that it's all about participation, developing the player, developing the person. It's not about win at all costs"

and

2. About the complainants: "Two 10 year old boys decide that they would rather play for the under 14s"

Is there another side to this story?

Buer · 07-05-2018 4:30pm

I don't think the story here is the actions that started the whole situation....it's the response to it. The manner in which ranks were closed, the confidentiality of the initial meeting was disregarded and the complainants were treated.

First and foremost, the actions of those involved were clearly wrong and there certainly appears to be more to the story. John Cloonan is not involved with the U14 side but took it upon himself to speak to two 10 year olds privately and tell them they would never pull on the Athenry jersey again. 10 year old kids. Regardless of what was said or not said (it's one word against another), I would think that two 10 year olds being pulled back in private to be spoken to by a club official (not their mentor) would be a very unusual situation which could be somewhat intimidating for a child.

But it's the response that has created the situation and the attempt to obfuscate the matter through misleading information and the bizarre effort to rally support from other members of the community. To bring in multiple individuals to attend a meeting that was noted as a confidential matter is a ridiculous action. For it to lead to complainants being admonished in public view by club members is nuts. I can't imagine the complainants are particularly popular with sections of their community after being exposed in such a manner.

People can talk about a mountain out of a molehill but, if that's the case, the club themselves built the mountain through their own reaction. If they had behaved rationally and appropriately in their response, this would have been a nothing incident that wouldn't have been noted beyond the boundaries of the local parish.

Ardent · 07-05-2018 4:34pm

There seems to be some confusion about why these 10 year olds were part of the U14 group. I think it's explained clearly in the article - the kids were moved up from the U11/U12 group because they were "upset by the language and atmosphere on the team".

The_Honeybadger · 07-05-2018 4:36pm

Buer wrote: »

I don't think the story here is the actions that started the whole situation....it's the response to it. The manner in which ranks were closed, the confidentiality of the initial meeting was disregarded and the complainants were treated.

First and foremost, the actions of those involved were clearly wrong and there certainly appears to be more to the story. John Cloonan is not involved with the U14 side but took it upon himself to speak to two 10 year olds privately and tell them they would never pull on the Athenry jersey again. 10 year old kids. Regardless of what was said or not said (it's one word against another), I would think that two 10 year olds being pulled back in private to be spoken to by a club official (not their mentor) would be a very unusual situation which could be somewhat intimidating for a child.

But it's the response that has created the situation and the attempt to obfuscate the matter through misleading information and the bizarre effort to rally support from other members of the community. To bring in multiple individuals to attend a meeting that was noted as a confidential matter is a ridiculous action. For it to lead to complainants being admonished in public view by club members is nuts. I can't imagine the complainants are particularly popular with sections of their community after being exposed in such a manner.

People can talk about a mountain out of a molehill but, if that's the case, the club themselves built the mountain through their own reaction. If they had behaved rationally and appropriately in their response, this would have been a nothing incident that wouldn't have been noted beyond the boundaries of the local parish.

Couldn’t have said it better, the issue was something that could have been easily sorted locally with a bit of common sense and compromise.

The stunning incompetence and recklessness of the club officers created the story for the indo. It really is unbelievable how badly they handled the whole thing.

Hitman3000 · 07-05-2018 5:39pm

Choochtown wrote:

Is there another side to this story?

The false statement, the behaviour towards the parents who made a complaint. The actions regards the club seeking support from other parents ie put in a good word. The group waiting in the hotel foyer and other areas approaching the families who made a complaint. You miss all that?

blue note · 07-05-2018 5:43pm

Happyilylost wrote: »

As a teacher you would know the gentleman involved broke the biggest no no involved with coaching kids "NEVER BE ALONE WITH KIDS. NO EXCUSES." I put it in capitals because that's the way it is in the handbook when you do the child protection course. You say the story the kids could of been inaccurate. And it very well could have. And it very well could of been a hell of a lot worse. The rule is there to protect kids and protect the volunteers involved.

Is the rule never be alone with a single kid, or never be with any number of kids without a second adult present? I never played underage, but my girlfriend was saying that they would be able to get a lift to / from a game if there was more than one of them, but the mentors wouldn't take a girl on their own. If teams are going to matches now do all the cars have to have two adults in them?

thegreengoblin · 07-05-2018 5:58pm

Squatter wrote: »

Translation: "look over there - I don't want you looking under this stone"

Anyway, that kind of begrudging article is the preserve of the SIndo's Gene Kerrigan so I assume that the excellent Paul Kimmage didn't want to stray into a fellow journalist's specialist area.

Why on earth would an article like that be begrudging?

Choochtown · 07-05-2018 5:59pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The false statement, the behaviour towards the parents who made a complaint. The actions regards the club seeking support from other parents ie put in a good word. The group waiting in the hotel foyer and other areas approaching the families who made a complaint. You miss all that?

No, I got all that and it is all evidence that the club handled parts of the affair badly.

They've also handled parts of the affair well. (Letter of apology, attendance on a safeguarding course).

Lots of questions remain unanswered.

Did the parents really take their children off an Under 12 panel and "decide" that they would play at U14 level (a BIG step up) and then report the U12 mentor to the National Children's Officer at Croke Park without even so much as having a chat with him?

Who contacted Kimmage with this information given that the article emphasises the "primacy of confidentiality"

Is it fair that these 2 volunteer mentors get named and shamed in the national press?

Kimmage has an axe to grind and the skills to grind it.

Read his heavily emotive text on "Complainant A" (note that they are not identified) making a call to Croke Park ...

He goes to voicemail ... He calls again ... "Not available right now" ... And again ...etc etc. .. ."spitting blood when he finally gets through" ...

Kimmage makes sure the reader is rooting for complainant A by hinting that they are going through so much to get a complaint heard when in reality the opposite was true.

Hitman3000 · 07-05-2018 6:05pm

Choochtown wrote:

Kimmage makes sure the reader is rooting for complainant A by hinting that they are going through so much to get a complaint heard when in reality the opposite was true.

I don't have an issue with Kimmage highlighting this behaviour. The club's actions is what caused this to become a mess. I have dealt with similar myself and the actions of the club and adults involved is very reminiscent of the behaviour of Athenry.

AndrewJRenko · 07-05-2018 6:12pm

blue note wrote: »

Is the rule never be alone with a single kid, or never be with any number of kids without a second adult present? I never played underage, but my girlfriend was saying that they would be able to get a lift to / from a game if there was more than one of them, but the mentors wouldn't take a girl on their own. If teams are going to matches now do all the cars have to have two adults in them?

I've certainly given lifts as a parent (not mentor) to kids with just one adult in the car, but always with >1 child in the car (except when it's just my own, of course).

Bonzo Delaney · 07-05-2018 6:14pm

blue note wrote: »

Is the rule never be alone with a single kid, or never be with any number of kids without a second adult present? I never played underage, but my girlfriend was saying that they would be able to get a lift to / from a game if there was more than one of them, but the mentors wouldn't take a girl on their own. If teams are going to matches now do all the cars have to have two adults in them?

I'm an u10 football mentor in kildare and the rule is never be in an suitation where you are alone with any child be it one or one hundred.
I can bring my own 3 children to a match but I couldn't bring another player to a match unless there is another mentor traveling with me.
But my brother who isn't connected to the gaa at all can fill the car with as may kids as seats he has.
The rule is to protect the mentors as much as the chidren

Soulsun · 07-05-2018 6:16pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Billy big balls bullying kids

Probably referred to as a legend about town

This carry on is happening in many other clubs imo

Bonzo Delaney · 07-05-2018 6:48pm

Ardent wrote: »

There seems to be some confusion about why these 10 year olds were part of the U14 group. I think it's explained clearly in the article - the kids were moved up from the U11/U12 group because they were "upset by the language and atmosphere on the team".

Surely the advise would against letting 10yr olds compete with u 14s big step up in completion and physical strength no matter what their skill set is considering they prob had 2 years left at u12s depending on date of birth

Widdensushi · 07-05-2018 6:59pm

Fair play to all the mentor's giving up their spare time, it must be a nightmare dealing with difficult kids and even more difficult parents when you can't even occasionally curse.

Soulsun · 07-05-2018 7:06pm

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

Surely the advise would against letting 10yr olds compete with u 14s big step up in completion and physical strength no matter what their skill set is considering they prob had 2 years left at u12s depending on date of birth

Some coaches and parents are numpties.
Some have never even played gaa and are managing teams.
This craic off playing kids way over their age bracket is another elephant in the room and wide spread in the gaa. It's a complete shambles.
Whose agenda are they suiting ??? Certainly not the kids.
Fairplay to PK....

From reading previous comments it appears we have all witnessed similar issues in other gaa clubs in Ireland.

nice_guy80 · 07-05-2018 7:10pm

Only when you work with children and deal with parents everyday of the week will you realise how words and actions can be turned and manipulated in order to suit a certain agenda.

I'm not saying the club isn't in the wrong here
However, some parents go out of their way to cause trouble, when there is no trouble.
They make life a drama

nice_guy80 · 07-05-2018 7:15pm

Soulsun wrote: »

Some coaches and parents are numpties.
Some have never even played gaa and are managing teams.
This craic off playing kids way over their age bracket is another elephant in the room and wide spread in the gaa. It's a complete shambles.
Whose agenda are they suiting ??? Certainly not the kids.
Fairplay to PK....

From reading previous comments it appears we have all witnessed similar issues in other gaa clubs in Ireland.

In many clubs a 11 year old will have to play U14 due to small numbers

I've rarely seen a GAA coach use bad language to their own kids. At any level.
They might use it towards the opposition or the ref but rarely their own kids

Choochtown · 07-05-2018 7:23pm

Let's get this much clear:

Kimmage is not highlighting kids being made to play out of their age bracket. In fact his article is very much supportive of the parents who decided to put their 10 year old kids in the u14 squad due to the U12 mentor using the f word at a training session.

I am not condoning the language at all but Kimmage has based his sensationalised article around this very minor incident.

It is extremely unfair that this mentor (remember the only accusation against him is that he used the f word during a training session) has been named and shamed in a national newspaper. Someone who freely gives his time to train the kids. Someone who it appears wasn't even approached by the parents in question about his language. They went straight to Croke Park (and it appears Paul Kimmage as well) about this very minor incident.

The irony here is that Kimmage triumphantly writes about the parent being cautioned for "his emotive language" when he talks to the GAA National Children's Officer!!!

Pure hypocrisy from Kimmage who clearly has a problem with the GAA.

big_drive · 07-05-2018 7:25pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Only when you work with children and deal with parents everyday of the week will you realise how words and actions can be turned and manipulated in order to suit a certain agenda.

I'm not saying the club isn't in the wrong here
However, some parents go out of their way to cause trouble, when there is no trouble.
They make life a drama

Agree 100%

It’s amazing when you go back over details etc and get to the truth how inaccurate the original version has been. Very dangerous

Under-age training misconduct

Comments