Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*

citykat · 23-04-2018 08:31PM

bruschi wrote: »

how many rounds are in Kilkenny hurling? Cant speak for the other counties, but Wexford has 5 league games and then quarter/semi/final.

Similar in Kilkenny. Teams can have 1/2 extra games depending on where they finish in the league. Of course whatever football is played will not have the slightest impact on the hurling schedule.

Grats · 23-04-2018 08:38PM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be upset with the fixtures in Kilkenny, yet I have made two attempts in the past to offer it up to solutions, none of which gained any proper traction and all hijacked by an anti Brian Cody sentiment. (Citykat & Village87 in particular)
April, the so called Cllub month, has been dogged by bad weather and success. Yes what a disaster winning that league was!! And the weather didn't help either. Result, fixtures cancelled. And we did Wexford a favour by making sure they didn't get to a final and lose another week of their club programme.
As Grats rightly said, fixtures were set and players and officials made plans around them. Surely the right thing to do for the sake of players, coaches and officials.. Make a plan. Do clubs want to change those fixtures?. Of course not. So we have Under-19 catering for a very important age group as regards player retention, last weekend and again this weekend. We have Gaelic football fixtures, last weekend and this weekend. I suppose those same people who are complaining about the fixtures would prefer these didn't happen either so that Kilkenny could really be laughed at. The truth is Kilkenny is a dual county and caters for football despite what the ignorant people in other counties suggest or love to believe. There is currently a huge amount of underage fixtures which are taking up pitches and referees and some club players who are involved in coaching so as they will be out of the way before exam season. By the way the same is happening in Camogie and Ladies Gaelic Football. We also have managers who would prefer to leave it all until after Kilkenny are out of the championship. We have administrators who are concerned about the "payments" to outside coaches and managers during the break. Money for nothing and kicks for free.
Bear in mind also Kilkenny county board did Not vote for the new championship setup or the moving of minor to Under-17, two factors forced upon Kilkenny by the democracy of the GAA. And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. So who really is unhappy, the keyboard warriors?
Anyway all that aside, lets here the solutions rather than the whinges.

You really have your finger on the pulse and good on you. I'll say no more other than to say, many Kilkenny supporters feel more than compensated after the brilliant League success. Success brings success!

JJs Left Hand · 23-04-2018 08:57PM

"And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. "

How do you know this?

babyjesus14 · 23-04-2018 09:09PM

citykat wrote: »

Similar in Kilkenny. Teams can have 1/2 extra games depending on where they finish in the league. Of course whatever football is played will not have the slightest impact on the hurling schedule.

No team plays extra games based on their finishing position in the league. The top team in each group play in the League Final while the second in each group play in the Shield final. The other eight teams play in the first round of the Championship with the games involving the bottom two teams in each group doubling as relegation semi-finals. Any extra games are based on how they perform in the Championship.

HughCassidy · 23-04-2018 09:44PM

Village87 wrote: »

Kilkenny the only hurling county not playing club this weekend. They are gone too far with there professionalism. Over taking set-ups such as Dublin footballers & Wexford hurlers who were pushing the boat out, Kilkenny have gone that step forward again by only releasing players to the clubs for 7 days over a 10 month period.

Makes a mockery of the club game that is held in the highest regard in Kilkenny

You can blame the people in Croke park for making a mockery out of the whole thing they interfered with the third level colleges matches which was always played before the league they pushed it all together players were playing mid week league county matches at the weekend didn't hear any complaints about that. The club situation was getting bad enough but croke park made a bad situation worse.

babyjesus14 · 23-04-2018 10:30PM

HughCassidy wrote: »

You can blame the people in Croke park for making a mockery out of the whole thing they interfered with the third level colleges matches which was always played before the league they pushed it all together players were playing mid week league county matches at the weekend didn't hear any complaints about that. The club situation was getting bad enough but croke park made a bad situation worse.

Not true. The Fitzgibbon cup always clashed with the league. The difference this year was because of the tight schedule the weekend of the final wasn't kept free of league games like it was in previous years. So the Fitzgibbon weekend was slightly altered, previously the semis were played on the Friday and the final on Saturday but this year the semis were played mid week 10 days before the final so that if an inter county manager required a player or players they wouldn't have to play three days in a row.

blackcard · 23-04-2018 10:56PM

At the moment, your average club player plays 6-8 competitive matches apart from Byrne Cup or secondary competition so maybe 11-14 matches in total? Is this enough for them? I think it is if you can manage to programme it. Your county players will not be playing in the secondary competition so it can overlap with County matches. In the new arrangements, county players will be playing 6-8 league matches and 4-8 championship matches so they could be playing 10-16 county matches. Your county player could be playing 16-24 matches between club and county. This excludes Walsh Cup matches, College matches, U21 matches etc. I think the only feasible way is that you are going to have to play 3-4 club matches on consecutive weeks and then 3-4 county matches on consecutive weeks. Extra time to be played if any knockout matches end in a draw. The situation where you have 4 weeks without any club or county matches is ridiculous. You had county players together for 7 weeks during the league. Why do they need another 4 weeks together before playing their first championship. Surely they are fit enough and 2 weeks should be enough to work on tactics

HughCassidy · 24-04-2018 12:00AM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

Not true. The Fitzgibbon cup always clashed with the league. The difference this year was because of the tight schedule the weekend of the final wasn't kept free of league games like it was in previous years. So the Fitzgibbon weekend was slightly altered, previously the semis were played on the Friday and the final on Saturday but this year the semis were played mid week 10 days before the final so that if an inter county manager required a player or players they wouldn't have to play three days in a row.

Did K Joyce not captain Ul to a Fitzgibbon cup final the final was the 26th of February 2011 jj Delany captained Wit it was played around the end of February 2004.

babyjesus14 · 24-04-2018 07:39AM

HughCassidy wrote: »

Did K Joyce not captain Ul to a Fitzgibbon cup final the final was the 26th of February 2011 jj Delany captained Wit it was played around the end of February 2004.

Correct. The last weekend in February is usually the weekend of the Fitzgibbon final and the league use to start on the first or second weekend in February depending on when it fell. This year the league started on the last weekend in January and the final weekend wasn't kept free of league games so the clash was more pronounced. But there was always some crossover between the latter stages of the Fitzgibbon and the early rounds of the league.

minty81 · 24-04-2018 08:37AM

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

"And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. "

How do you know this?

Thats not true

Ceist_Beag · 24-04-2018 08:57AM

minty81 wrote: »

Originally Posted by JJs Left Hand View Post
"And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. "

How do you know this?

Thats not true

Clearly one of you is wrong but how do either of you "know" this?

babyjesus14 · 24-04-2018 09:17AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Clearly one of you is wrong but how do either of you "know" this?

Indeed. I was very dubious about the original claim when you consider that from Senior down to Junior A we are talking about thousands of club hurlers. Then again maybe one of them is Liam Griffin and he does "know ".

Village87 · 24-04-2018 09:52AM

blackcard wrote: »

At the moment, your average club player plays 6-8 competitive matches apart from Byrne Cup or secondary competition so maybe 11-14 matches in total? Is this enough for them? I think it is if you can manage to programme it. Your county players will not be playing in the secondary competition so it can overlap with County matches. In the new arrangements, county players will be playing 6-8 league matches and 4-8 championship matches so they could be playing 10-16 county matches. Your county player could be playing 16-24 matches between club and county. This excludes Walsh Cup matches, College matches, U21 matches etc. I think the only feasible way is that you are going to have to play 3-4 club matches on consecutive weeks and then 3-4 county matches on consecutive weeks. Extra time to be played if any knockout matches end in a draw. The situation where you have 4 weeks without any club or county matches is ridiculous. You had county players together for 7 weeks during the league. Why do they need another 4 weeks together before playing their first championship. Surely they are fit enough and 2 weeks should be enough to work on tactics

Agreed

bruschi · 24-04-2018 10:07AM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association.

I'm not sure why you are saying that, but it 100% is not true. You do know that to become a member of the CPA, all you need do is fill out an online form and register with them? You dont need to do it through club or county. I know lads in Kilkenny registered with the CPA (one of whom has managed intercounty Kilkenny teams too), as I am myself. I'm not massively ingrained in their set up or anything, but I'd like to see what they can achieve and put some emphasis back to clubs again.

In fact, here is a testimony on the CPA website from a Kilkenny registered member: https://gaaclubplayers.com/horror-stories/

It’s extremely hard to book summer Holidays. You are given a set of dates for club fixtures at the start of the year but this could all change depending on how your county results go. A match could be brought forward two weeks or delayed two weeks and when you arrive back from holidays you may only have 1-2 weeks to prepare for an important game all because of a fixture change. I try book my holidays so that they (A) don’t clash with important club games (B) so that I have approx 3 weeks to prepare for a club game that could have a huge say on how the year goes for my club.

James, Kilkenny

edit: should also have added, Richie Power is the CPA rep for Kilkenny, so if you want to check out with him if he knows how many in Kilkenny have signed up, give him a shout.

minty81 · 24-04-2018 10:26AM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

minty81 wrote: »

Originally Posted by JJs Left Hand View Post
"And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. "

How do you know this?

Thats not true

Clearly one of you is wrong but how do either of you "know" this?

Well I am for one!!

JimboJones99 · 24-04-2018 11:25AM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. So who really is unhappy, the keyboard warriors?
Anyway all that aside, lets here the solutions rather than the whinges.

Absolute nonsense. How do you know that there isnt one single player who joined up? You are clearly delusional if you think that is case.It seems to me that you might be involved with the county board and the whole process of organising the fixtures given your passionate response about it but don't kid yourself with statements like the above I know of numerous players who are getting correspondence from the CPA and to do so would have had to have signed up.

If my hunch is correct, then I don't envy you and whoever is organising the fixtures. Not an easy job and I dont have any ready made solution but at the very least 3 games should have been organised for April (the club month, more like club forthnight!!); Round 1 and 2 as originally planned and Round 3 should have been fixed for 21/22 April. You cant legislate for the weather and the effect it had on the league but my point is another round should have been included prior to that anyway if the county board really cared about the clubs and not just the county. The county team would still have had more than enough time to prepare.

Grats wrote: »

You really have your finger on the pulse and good on you. I'll say no more other than to say, many Kilkenny supporters feel more than compensated after the brilliant League success. Success brings success!

Of course supporters who primarily go to county games and not club games are delighted. Why wouldnt they be? However, what about all the players and mentors involved in the club scene? Do you think they feel compensated? Its worth remembering they also are Kilkenny supporters but most players or trainers that I spoke to admitted they wouldnt have been disappointed if Kilkenny had been beaten by Wexford in the league semi final and therefore not resulting in the cancellation of the first round. Surely that is a travesty if it comes to that and I dont blame them either.

But sure look thats the way the club scene is gone on a national level but as long as the county scene is thriving who cares. The GAA will only look to rectify it when lads start picking other sports over it and even more potential county stars are lost which will happen sooner rather later

JJs Left Hand · 24-04-2018 11:48AM

I wanted to read his justification for that statement before it was rubbished lads

bruschi · 24-04-2018 04:19PM

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I wanted to read his justification for that statement before it was rubbished lads

damn it, sorry, ruined your "ah ha!" moment!

But I think it was fairly clear it was rubbish and didnt even need proving wrong.

savannahkat · 24-04-2018 07:03PM

Is Padraigh Walsh the real answer at full back. Both the Weford and Tipp full forwarrds gave him plenty to think about and in both cases they probably won their individual duels with him.

savannahkat · 24-04-2018 07:03PM

Is Padraigh Walsh the real answer at full back. Both the Weford and Tipp full forwarrds gave him plenty to think about and in both cases they probably won their individual duels with him.

brookville · 24-04-2018 07:35PM

I wouldn't say conor mac won his battle but Jason forde was voted the best player of the league and I thought padraig looked nervous that day and gave away a few needless frees the goal he got in the league final came from joey being beaten in the air and john mcgrath sucked him.not many would of had the vision to see forde.
I think the debate bout padraig should be put to bed his going to be our long term number 3 in codys eyes and there's not many other candidates or even many good county full backs in the country.it's work in progress but I think his growing and learning every day he goes out.

Rochelle · 25-04-2018 10:16AM

bruschi wrote: »

JJs Left Hand wrote: »

I wanted to read his justification for that statement before it was rubbished lads

damn it, sorry, ruined your "ah ha!" moment!

But I think it was fairly clear it was rubbish and didnt even need proving wrong.

Hawkeye has been badly exposed here...

Hawkeye6 · 25-04-2018 02:14PM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

There is an organisation called the CPA to represent the Club players which is there over a year now and they have no plan or direction, just idealised rhetoric. What is their plan for club and county to co-exist in harmony? I haven't seen anything. The GAA is about Club AND County not Club versus County. Any solution must take into account both for the GAA to continue as we traditionally know it.

I’m Spartacus! I’m Spartacus! I’m Spartacus!
Just because you say you are doesn’t mean you are;
Nobody was Spartacus when the question was put to them on 26^th March.

Now we have the door open and there “are members” on here let’s put it out there again.

What is the recently discussed CPA plan for Kilkenny Club fixtures including Under-19 and Gaelic Football?
What has your “membership” involved so far?
How is the CPA funded?
What has the CPA contributed to Kilkenny GAA to date?
Why is the CPA better than you own Club Executive/Committee?

And I’m NOT Spartacus!

Village87 · 25-04-2018 02:26PM

Kilkenny off on a training weekend this weekend and Tipperary playing club hurling matches. Get the CPA in action in Kilkenny ASAP. I thought County Boards were fined if the Inter County team went on training camps in April ? Kilkenny have made some mockery of April being a month for clubs

bruschi · 25-04-2018 04:18PM

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

I’m Spartacus! I’m Spartacus! I’m Spartacus!
Just because you say you are doesn’t mean you are;
Nobody was Spartacus when the question was put to them on 26^th March.

Now we have the door open and there “are members” on here let’s put it out there again.

What is the recently discussed CPA plan for Kilkenny Club fixtures including Under-19 and Gaelic Football?
What has your “membership” involved so far?
How is the CPA funded?
What has the CPA contributed to Kilkenny GAA to date?
Why is the CPA better than you own Club Executive/Committee?

And I’m NOT Spartacus!

what has any of the above to do with your interesting and completely wrong point you made earlier? If you dont like the CPA or disagree with their work, thats an entirely different discussion than what your interesting point was.

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association.

HughCassidy · 25-04-2018 04:19PM

Village87 wrote: »

Kilkenny off on a training weekend this weekend and Tipperary playing club hurling matches. Get the CPA in action in Kilkenny ASAP. I thought County Boards were fined if the Inter County team went on training camps in April ? Kilkenny have made some mockery of April being a month for clubs

Did Waterford not play challenge matches this month defeated Westmeath by a cricket score are they not playing offaly this weekend.

HoHohurlin · 25-04-2018 05:12PM

savannahkat wrote: »

Is Padraigh Walsh the real answer at full back. Both the Weford and Tipp full forwarrds gave him plenty to think about and in both cases they probably won their individual duels with him.

He is considering the other options we have there, Who else would you suggest could fill the slot?

brookville · 25-04-2018 10:03PM

HoHohurlin wrote: »

savannahkat wrote: »

Is Padraigh Walsh the real answer at full back. Both the Weford and Tipp full forwarrds gave him plenty to think about and in both cases they probably won their individual duels with him.

He is considering the other options we have there, Who else would you suggest could fill the slot?

Theres no1 else ready I know we'd all love padraig at 5 or even in attack but it's not going to happen.
We all would of liked to have seen delaney or tom aylward tried for a league match but at this stage things will stay the same bar injuries. I'd say our spine will stay much the same for the championship.
It'll be interesting to see will hogan,murphy,cleere or colin fennelly make the panel for the dublin match.kevin kelly should hopefully return to training in the next few weeks.

phkk · 25-04-2018 10:30PM

JimboJones99 wrote: »

Hawkeye6 wrote: »

And here's the interesting point. There is not one single player in Kilkenny who is a member of the Club Players Association. So who really is unhappy, the keyboard warriors?
Anyway all that aside, lets here the solutions rather than the whinges.

Absolute nonsense. How do you know that there isnt one single player who joined up? You are clearly delusional if you think that is case.It seems to me that you might be involved with the county board and the whole process of organising the fixtures given your passionate response about it but don't kid yourself with statements like the above I know of numerous players who are getting correspondence from the CPA and to do so would have had to have signed up.

If my hunch is correct, then I don't envy you and whoever is organising the fixtures. Not an easy job and I dont have any ready made solution but at the very least 3 games should have been organised for April (the club month, more like club forthnight!!); Round 1 and 2 as originally planned and Round 3 should have been fixed for 21/22 April. You cant legislate for the weather and the effect it had on the league but my point is another round should have been included prior to that anyway if the county board really cared about the clubs and not just the county. The county team would still have had more than enough time to prepare.

Grats wrote: »

You really have your finger on the pulse and good on you. I'll say no more other than to say, many Kilkenny supporters feel more than compensated after the brilliant League success. Success brings success!

Of course supporters who primarily go to county games and not club games are delighted. Why wouldnt they be? However, what about all the players and mentors involved in the club scene? Do you think they feel compensated? Its worth remembering they also are Kilkenny supporters but most players or trainers that I spoke to admitted they wouldnt have been disappointed if Kilkenny had been beaten by Wexford in the league semi final and therefore not resulting in the cancellation of the first round. Surely that is a travesty if it comes to that and I dont blame them either.

But sure look thats the way the club scene is gone on a national level but as long as the county scene is thriving who cares. The GAA will only look to rectify it when lads start picking other sports over it and even more potential county stars are lost which will happen sooner rather later

100% agree.
I'm interested in Hawkeye's angle on club fixtures, it does sound like an administrator. All I can say is I'm a retired club hurler and with the current set up, all I can say is thank God. I don't know about you but I used to absolutely hate the monotony of endless training sessions in Jan/Feb/March in the scutter for league games in April. At least with the old system in Kilkenny, you were guaranteed matches in April&May. June was usually out with KK being in Leinster final and then you'd have a game in July and August. Now, players have done all the preseason for just one game. All those cold, wet nights in the **** and muck, when most people were in sitting by the stove, club hurlers in Kk were busting a gut for what they believed to be at least 2 games. The 3rd was mooted as being a 'strong possibilty' so players/managers prepared as best as they can. I think those players have been badly let down. Surely they could have played the second game, no?
Since I've finished up hurling, I've been involved in managing various teams-U13, U16, minors, U21 and adult teams too. I absolutely love the games, really enjoy the club matches but can I share a secret.... I think there's far too much training and not enough games. I saw some startling statistic last year that the average players ratio of training to games is seriously lopsided ( can't find the figure).
From both a playing and coaching perspective, I can tell you that club players would moan and throw their eyes up to heaven when fixtures have been cancelled at the last minute and rearranged for a different time. My wife used to be pulling her hairout trying to plan around trainings and games. Believe it or not, it can be very frustrating for all concerned. Usually when a match is postponed, it coincided with an extra training session or two!! I also joined the CPA last year to support their endeavours to improve the lot of club players.

HughCassidy · 26-04-2018 09:04AM

Would Ned Quinn have let club matches go ahead this month if he was still in office.

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*