Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Teferi · 15-04-2018 12:18PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence, was with them most of the day yesterday

If we're going to use anecdotal evidence then the only place I've seen outrage about the lads is Woke Irish Twitter, and they are hardly the bastion of logic, reason, calm or indeed, any sort of emotion that people should take actual notice of.

The opinions of everyone I know in real life ranges from 'fuck sake, two lads careers ruined over nothing' to 'I can understand the IRFU position but don't agree with it'.

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 12:19PM

Teferi wrote: »

If we're going to use anecdotal evidence then the only place I've seen outrage about the lads is Woke Irish Twitter, and they are hardly the bastion of logic, reason, calm or indeed, any sort of emotion that people should take actual notice of.

The opinions of everyone I know in real life ranges from 'fuck sake, two lads careers ruined over nothing' to 'I can understand the IRFU position but don't agree with it'.

Bank of Ireland literally made a public statement about it.

Maybe they are part of Woke Irish Twitter though, I'm not sure.

EDIT: Ah, to be fair you said outrage. I don't really have much time for outrage myself, it's a complete waste of time on both sides.

joseywhales · 15-04-2018 12:22PM

Buer wrote: »

Squatter wrote: »

Downlinz wrote: »

Nobody will go near him, he has even less support in the south than he has in Ulster, he's hardly Beauden Barrett either so little reason to associate with a mediocre 10 at a similar level to what we already have. Between Tyler, Bill and JJ there's no shortage of options over the next few years.

That's unfair. He had become a very capable and competent player who had flourished with Pienaar's assistance and was coming into his rugby prime. He has a lot to offer any team that is willing to take a risk with him.

It's not unfair. It's simply blatantly wrong. After Sexton, there isn't another Irish outhalf near the level of Jackson. He's an excellent player and there's a very good reason a side like Clermont are swooping for him immediately.

Jackson will never get the credit he fully deserves from many as a player simply because he has the audacity to have competed for an Irish jersey with the likes of Madigan, ROG and Carbery and come out on top for the most part.

I think he is a great player but his career hardly compares to that of rog, how many cups has he won and how many international caps/points has he achieved?

I suppose he was competing with rog in the last year of rog's career for a bench spot. He got the number 2 role for a game or two but I think that has more to do with ROG being a terrible substitute and about to retire.

Regarding madigan I'd say they were neck and neck, for example madigan was in our last world cup starting team but Jackson was not, its not certain how selection would have gone if madigan had stayed at Leinster.

I wouldn't say he has really had a chance to compete with carbery yet, so I'm not sure he has come out on top. I would pick him right now in the hypothetical situation that he was available.

I think he will be great at Clermont, I think he has the passing game to release their powerful backline.

Teferi · 15-04-2018 12:22PM

BOI is not a person, it's a business that has an interest in protecting itself from outrage directed at them by anyone.

Vinnie222 · 15-04-2018 12:24PM

mfceiling wrote: »

You reckon he'll be ahead of Johnny for the semi? You reckon he's the 2nd best 10 in Ireland? You reckon he's the 2nd best 10 at Leinster?

We all know Sexton will be starting , it doesnt matter what I or you think , what matters is Joe and Leo has him as no'2

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 12:26PM

Teferi wrote: »

BOI is not a person, it's a business that has an interest in protecting itself from outrage directed at them by anyone.

Right.

Only Unwoke, unoutraged non-business people need apply.

Anyone whose opinion doesn't fall within allowed bandwidth of course immediately becomes Woke. It's a slippery slope.

joseywhales · 15-04-2018 12:28PM

Faugheen wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Among rugby fans?
What data are you going on?

The same data as you. F*ck all.

How can you claim rugby fans will take them back with no basis then ask for data when someone challenges you?

What do you mean? there is 1-100% of supporters that would not agree with Francie.

15-04-2018 12:35PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

See here's the thing. i did go and read that when I woke up yesterday morning. As I said on this very thread.

Then, after depressing myself by reading that and eventually as the fallout spread realising they're still a minority, I realised I couldn't care less about the opinions of the URSC, at least those on UAFC. They're odious scrotes and their attitude towards women is a complete and utter embarrassment to the sport. And so I really wish I hadn't done exactly what you suggested here. Luckily enough as the day progressed I soon realised they're not representative of the general reaction at all, as evidenced by the opinions of people across the country, luckily enough for the rest of us.

I do wish their dream of cutting ties with the IRFU and setting up a new side under the auspices of the SRU was even 0.001% feasible, it would certainly save us potential future embarrassment.

This reads alarmingly close to "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist". Are you sure you're not Una Mulally?

For what it's worth most of my circle of friends and acquaintances would be on the same page as Sullivo, all life long rugby people both players and supporters.

Teferi · 15-04-2018 12:35PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right.

Only Unwoke, unoutraged non-business people need apply.

Anyone whose opinion doesn't fall within allowed bandwidth of course immediately becomes Woke. It's a slippery slope.

I can't actually read what you wrote here because of all the straw covering your post.

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 12:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This reads alarmingly close to "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is a misogynist". Are you sure your not Una Mulally?

For what it's worth most of my circle of friends and acquaintances would be on the same page as Sullivo, all life long rugby people both players and supporters.

People who say misogynistic things are misogynists.

Squatter · 15-04-2018 12:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

For what it's worth most of my circle of friends and acquaintances would be on the same page as Sullivo, all life long rugby people both players and supporters.

From what age grouping? Young, middle aged or geriatric old farts like me? (I still miss Ned Van Esbeck telling us that professional rugby would never happen!)

CommandoJack · 15-04-2018 12:42PM

Faugheen wrote: »

It's just as laughable to suggest Jackson was the best place kicker in the world before he got suspended. A very good one indeed, but come on...

Jackson having the best record of all kickers with more than 20 kicks in the 2016-2017 season (worldwide) says otherwise!

38/43 Pro12
14/15 6Nations
24/26 Other Internationals
76/84 90.48%

FrancieBrady · 15-04-2018 12:45PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

People who say misogynistic things are misogynists.

Can you assess if someone is misogynist when you don't know what their opinion of their mother, sisters, other female friends and acquaintances is?

Well done you.

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 12:48PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you assess if someone is misogynist when you don't know what their opinion of their mother, sisters, other female friends and acquaintances is?

Well done you.

No, I can assess someone is misogynist if they say misogynistic things.

15-04-2018 12:48PM

Squatter wrote: »

From what age grouping? Young, middle aged or geriatric old farts like me? (I still miss Ned Van Esbeck telling us that professional rugby would never happen!)

Early mid 30's. No one is excusing their behaviour, but I don't think they should be treated differently because of their profile. I believe they are owed a right to privacy. Sullivo said it better, reflects my feelings and my colleagues and friends very accurately.

15-04-2018 12:50PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right.

Only Unwoke, unoutraged non-business people need apply.

Anyone whose opinion doesn't fall within allowed bandwidth of course immediately becomes Woke. It's a slippery slope.

The irony of this statement after what you've been saying about Ulster fans this morning.

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 12:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The irony of this statement after what you've been saying about Ulster fans this morning.

Explain why you think that is ironic?

FrancieBrady · 15-04-2018 12:52PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, I can assess someone is misogynist if they say misogynistic things.

If I say a male is a 'horndog' and would 'get up on a clipped hedge', is that an opinion of his character or am I anti-male?

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 12:57PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If I say a male is a 'horndog' and would 'get up on a clipped hedge', is that an opinion of his character or am I anti-male?

I'm not interested into going into specific examples of language because it'll just lead to bringing up the equivalents and the "plans" that were made and I'm not really excited about that proposition.

I am absolutely not, for one second, saying that misandry doesn't exist as well though, if that's what you're getting at.

joseywhales · 15-04-2018 12:59PM

Also is being a horndog a good or a bad thing? Surely said horndog enjoys what they do otherwise why do it?
I'm gonna say your statement is pro horndog

FrancieBrady · 15-04-2018 01:02PM

joseywhales wrote: »

Also is being a horndog a good or a bad thing? Surely said horndog enjoys what they do otherwise why do it?
I'm gonna say your statement is pro horndog

When he is shagging and using a friend of mine, it is a 'bad thing/opinion of him'.

Is it just an opinion of that type of man or am I anti-male by saying/having that opinion?

15-04-2018 01:04PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Explain why you think that is ironic?

You made sweeping and dismissive statements about the opinions of all Ulster supporters because you read some posts that offended your sensibilities.

Then another poster made a similarly sweeping generalisation about those whose 'outrage' influenced the sponsors and you felt the need to highlight that not all people who agree with the decision are 'woke' and 'outraged'.

It's ironic because you were happy to, frankly, sh1t all over Ulster supporters but dismissed the same generalisations about those who want the players removed.

Maybe ironic wasn't the best word, hypocritical is probably more accurate.

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 01:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When he is shagging and using a friend of mine, it is a 'bad thing/opinion of him'.

Is it just an opinion of that type of man or am I anti-male by saying/having that opinion?

If it's someone you know and you're making a personal judgement then no, it's not a sweeping judgement and shouldn't be taken as such.

Buer · 15-04-2018 01:06PM

joseywhales wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

Squatter wrote: »

Downlinz wrote: »

Nobody will go near him, he has even less support in the south than he has in Ulster, he's hardly Beauden Barrett either so little reason to associate with a mediocre 10 at a similar level to what we already have. Between Tyler, Bill and JJ there's no shortage of options over the next few years.

That's unfair. He had become a very capable and competent player who had flourished with Pienaar's assistance and was coming into his rugby prime. He has a lot to offer any team that is willing to take a risk with him.

It's not unfair. It's simply blatantly wrong. After Sexton, there isn't another Irish outhalf near the level of Jackson. He's an excellent player and there's a very good reason a side like Clermont are swooping for him immediately.

Jackson will never get the credit he fully deserves from many as a player simply because he has the audacity to have competed for an Irish jersey with the likes of Madigan, ROG and Carbery and come out on top for the most part.

I think he is a great player but his career hardly compares to that of rog, how many cups has he won and how many international caps/points has he achieved?

I suppose he was competing with rog in the last year of rog's career for a bench spot. He got the number 2 role for a game or two but I think that has more to do with ROG being a terrible substitute and about to retire.

Regarding madigan I'd say they were neck and neck, for example madigan was in our last world cup starting team but Jackson was not, its not certain how selection would have gone if madigan had stayed at Leinster.

I wouldn't say he has really had a chance to compete with carbery yet, so I'm not sure he has come out on top. I would pick him right now in the hypothetical situation that he was available.

I think he will be great at Clermont, I think he has the passing game to release their powerful backline.

I never compared him to anyone's career and certainly never mentioned anything about his career relative to ROG's.

I just stated that he was in competition with them and, for the most part, came out on top when he was.

I stand by my assertion that the likes of Madigan and Carbery aren't in the same bracket whatsoever. Madigan was a world class goal kicker which was a big advantage he had over Jackson and was central to him being preferred for the RWC and his versatility made him a better bench option . But he was never the outhalf that Jackson is.

He was available for Ireland for several games at the same time as Carbery and picked ahead of him. They may not have competed long term but they definitely competed for the back up spot. It just wasn't any contest.

FrancieBrady · 15-04-2018 01:09PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If it's someone you know and you're making a personal judgement then no, it's not a sweeping judgement and shouldn't be taken as such.

I don't 'know' him, he made the move on a night out, he wanted to be with somebody and had tried several other women before this. It didn't matter as long as it was a female.

I was with other males whom I don't think are horndogs and there were plenty in the premises I didn't know who were not behaving like horndogs.

Am I anti-male for having the opinion that this guy and the few others he was with were 'horndogs'.

Former Former · 15-04-2018 01:10PM

Buer wrote: »

I never compared him to anyone and certainly never mentioned anything about his career relative to ROG's.

I just stated that he was in competition with them and, for the most part, came out on top when he was.

I stand by my assertion that the likes of Madigan and Carbery aren't in the same bracket whatsoever. Madigan was a world class goal kicker which was a big advantage he had over Jackson and was central to him being preferred for the RWC. But he was never the outhalf that Jackson is.

Joe didn't agree. Rightly or wrongly, he preferred Madigan.

damianmcr · 15-04-2018 01:12PM

Disagree. Paddy if Sexton was injured. Madigan was a utility back.

irishbucsfan · 15-04-2018 01:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You made sweeping and dismissive statements about the opinions of all Ulster supporters

Wrong. Turn back and take some more time to get it right.

Former Former · 15-04-2018 01:15PM

damianmcr wrote: »

Disagree. Paddy if Sexton was injured. Madigan was a utility back.

Except when this exact scenario happened.

awec · 15-04-2018 01:17PM

Former Former wrote: »

Joe didn't agree. Rightly or wrongly, he preferred Madigan.

I'm confused. Didn't Schmidt specifically say he'd start Jackson ahead of Sexton if the need ever arose?

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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