Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Bob_Marley · 31-03-2018 01:12PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Former rugby international Alan Quinlan said yesterday it's very possible Jackson and Olding could be released from their contracts for "bringing the game into disrepute" (which is actually written into their contract).

There's definitely a lot of minimising going on here as if the two players and their two pals have done nothing wrong whatsoever ("they're just being typical lads") and everything is fine and dandy.

Even though they are not guilty of rape, their drunken conduct and escapades are certainly unbecoming of any professional sports person representing their sport and country. Ulster Rugby and Ireland would have every right to still drop them if they choose to, but not for the reason of being accused of rape.

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 01:14PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But they haven’t done anything wrong - they’ve been found not guilty remember?

You don't have to commit a criminal offence to "bring the game into disrepute". You could be observed falling around drunk in public or verbally abusing someone on the street, or making racist, sexist or homophobic comments etc

Quinlan's point is that their general behaviour that night and then bragging about it online afterwards in very coarse terms could see them in breach of their rugby contract.

Mokuba · 31-03-2018 01:14PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Not guilty of the crime they were charged with.

That's the not same as having done nothing wrong in relation to their employment contract clauses.

Its really not that difficult to understand.

If alcohol intake or sexual intercourse are prohibited by those contracts then Paddy is in trouble. As are the rest of players contracted to the IRFU.

If they sack him because he is responsible for just one subjectively offensive whatsapp message, just to appease the witch-hunt, then they are cowards.

If you know any other aspect of his behaviour which could come under question, then I'd love to know.

iamwhoiam · 31-03-2018 01:14PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But the implication is there.

Look I’m not going to continue arguing with you. You’ve clearly decided you’re right and won’t listen any logic but your own so there’s no point.

Oh now you don't want to argue !! At no stage did I implicate any such thing .Read back my posts .I said you cannot speak for all women and know every woman .And you cant .At no stage did I implicate that NO women speak like that .I quite simply said NOT ALL WOMEN do . Twist that as you wish but I did not say or implicate anything else .

Mokuba · 31-03-2018 01:16PM

Strazdas wrote: »

You don't have to commit a criminal offence to "bring the game into disrepute". You could be observed falling around drunk in public or verbally abusing someone on the street, or making racist, sexist or homophobic comments etc

Quinlan's point is that their general behaviour that night and then bragging about it online afterwards in very coarse terms could see them in breach of their rugby contract.

Where did they brag about it online? WhatsApp is a private conversation app.

Paddy is responsible for just one message. Would you have him sacked for that?

Did you do any research on anything before you decided to offer your opinion?

31-03-2018 01:16PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But they haven’t done anything wrong - they’ve been found not guilty remember?

True, they have been found not guilty of rape. By getting drunk, acting the maggot and with those Whats App messages maybe that is enough for the club to claim they 'brought the game into disrepute'. I mean footballers have been dropped to the bench in the past for being in the tabloids for having affairs.

I am only having a guess here though.

SimpleDimples · 31-03-2018 01:17PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Do women when they get together, talk about their previous nights conquest in terms of the size of his dick or his stamina or his longevity or whatever?

Hollywood certainly portrays that they do. And nobody seems to complain about that!

But do they?

Like everything else, I think this varies from woman to woman.

I'm in my 30s so probably much less likely to do so than when I was younger.

I would never comment on size as I wouldn't want anyone commenting in how tight/lose I am - even if it was flattering. I would consider it bad manners & it would say a lot more about me than the other person.

Stamina, perhaps the very odd time but again only if it was complimentry.

Rightly or wrongly, I am very conscious of my reputation but tend not to discuss my sex life in detail. I've a healthy attitude to sex and a decent sex drive but tend not to talk about it much other than with the person I'm with.

The attitude to 50 Shades of Grey,probably had more women talking about sex than before but which found bizarre- most women who have any sort of a decent sex life thought it was pretty dire!

bigpink · 31-03-2018 01:17PM

What’s the Munster threesome story??Have we another court case

RuMan · 31-03-2018 01:17PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Ahh **** off with that ****e

Most people in this thread would never have stopped to wonder what religion or political persuasion the defendants are!

Disagree. The Brexit vote has legitimised the hatred of the Unionist community in many parts of the south.
The men are innocent and as there was no rape it was a consenual threesome. No different then the 2 munster lads. Bigotry at work here.

Depp · 31-03-2018 01:17PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Dont speak for " we women " please . You only know of your own circle . So you cannot speak for all women .

not calling out anyone in particular but a general trend I'm noticing in this thread, funny how you see a lot of posts with statements such as (and I'm paraphrasing) 'all women wont stand for x' or 'all women dont believe/say y' but then when you see a woman post with a dissenting view shes slapped with the ''you dont speak for all women, you only know of your own circle'' retort. Bit hypocritical tbh but whatever floats your boat!

Laois_Man · 31-03-2018 01:17PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Part of the joke is as with films like 'Bridesmaids' is women behaving badly, that is the draw, it is comedic territory therefore it is safe territory to make a joke about the reversal of roles, parody, satire, that is what comedy does best within the confines of film, theatre.

Its not just in the confines of film, theatre though is it?

I've been on trains with a hen party in the carriage and things like that!

In my younger days, in the 90's, I've often seen mates go off with girls and then the girls friends coming after my mate the following night coz they'd heard how good he was

So pull the other one!

torqtorq · 31-03-2018 01:17PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Can you seriously imagine any of the big sponsores attaching their brand to the rugger lads in this group who have actually spoken about a woman like she is a piece of meat to be 'spit roasted' that all the women at the party even the ones who supposedly liked the lads were sluts and prostitutes. Maybe it's 'normal' in some circles of men in their 20's mainly but does that mean it's okay? but you can't say that it isn't because then you get labelled a prude. When do boys learn to say this stuff who do they learn it from, a boy of 10 said something of a nasty nature to my niece 4. Where did he get it from? It's not just about lads in their 20's it's much bigger than that and it is about 'normalising' these types of words so that young boys of primary school age think that's okay to say that to a girl. It isn't and I think people who say it is are mentally deficient. The crowd at rugby matches are a lot more friendly to women than at football matches, rugby crowds are welcoming to women and if you think those women will want to support these lads then you aren't living on this planet.

The Irish Rugby Sponsors are such paragons of virtue.

Volkswagen
Has been caught tampering with their diesel cars emission control systems such that in the real world the tailpipe nitrous oxide emissions are many times the allowable levels. This has resulted in the death of thousands of people.
To date in USA they have been fined billions of dollars in fines.

Ulster Bank
Forever being fined for shady practices.
Central Bank's fine of €3.3m imposed for breaches of anti-money-laundering protocols.
In actual fact, Ulster bank is the most fined financial institution in Ireland. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...land-1.2850427

Vodafone
Vodafone fined €250000 by the telecoms regulator, Comreg, for incorrectly charging 250000 Irish pay-as-you-go customers when they traveled abroad.
Vodafone fined £4,625,000 by Ofcom in UK for serious and sustained breaches of consumer protection rules.
Vodafone fined €951,000 euro by Comreg for incorrect charges on 1520, 1580 and 1590 numbers.

Guinness
Guinness Nigeria fined 5 million dollars relating to the destruction and re-validation of expired raw materials.
Marketing targeting young people.

cloudatlas · 31-03-2018 01:19PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

First off I am not mentally deficient and I find it quite insulting to labeled so.

Second I know well what many of those rugby loving women think because I am one of them and I know many and most of them, in fact most of the women I’ve spoken to generally, feel that this was a case of misunderstandings and that texts do not imply a rape occurred.

And we all agree that the texts should never have been made public nor used as a stick to beat the four lads with.

What you do before or after an alleged crime is very important and they should have been brought to light especially after their behaviour of going out without their phones and deleting messages, it was fine so why bother with that extra effort.

If your friends think that way of speaking about women is okay then you are in the right company.

iamwhoiam · 31-03-2018 01:19PM

Depp wrote: »

not calling out anyone in particular but a general trend I'm noticing in this thread, funny how you see a lot of posts with statements such as (and I'm paraphrasing) 'all women wont stand for x' or 'all women dont believe/say y' but then when you see a woman post with a dissenting view shes slapped with the ''you dont speak for all women, you only know of your own circle'' retort. Bit hypocritical tbh but whatever floats your boat!

Well I have never called for all women to do anything or ever said I know what all women think all so I am not not hypocritical at all .No one speaks for all women nor can they its that simple really

dxhound2005 · 31-03-2018 01:20PM

The idea that athletes are role models for the rest of us makes no sense to me. They are just human, and many of them have gone off the rails without damaging society overmuch. I think they should be able to socialise the same as other young people.

What should change is the abuse that they suffer these days on social media. But unfortunately, that comes to anyone in any sphere who is well known.

hynesie08 · 31-03-2018 01:20PM

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Surely not a coincidence that all those tweeting #suemetoo are also saying how they have no money anyway.

Can he claim ownership of their blogs? Cause I guarantee they have blogs. Or he can acquire Ireland's largest collection of repeal jumpers.

RuMan · 31-03-2018 01:20PM

bigpink wrote: »

What’s the Munster threesome story??Have we another court case

2 munster and ireland players had a consensual threesome. Woman seemed to enjoy it and didnt change her mind after and accuse them falsely of rape which would have destroyed their careers.

Sofiztikated · 31-03-2018 01:21PM

irishrebe wrote: »

What's really hilarious to me is how so many men on here view these things as a 'punishment'. Attending consent classes means they are all automatically considered rapists, for example. I had to attend mandatory 'racism awareness' classes when I worked in London. Did I throw my toys out of the pram and tell them to stop accusing me of being racist and stop disrespecting me? Or did I welcome the opportunity to put myself in the shoes of people of other races and consider issues I might not have thought about before as a white person? I know I'm not a racist, so it didn't bother me having to go to that course. But a consent class for a man is assuming that all men are rapists?

Ok, so why not consent classes for both genders? And I don't mean "How not to Rape 101" for men, and "How not to get Raped 101" for women. Treat everyone the ****ing same, everyone is capable of horrendous ****, teach people how to avoid it, and what to do if it does happen.

People of all races can be racist.

RuMan wrote: »

One wonders what the reaction would be to 2 munster players participating in a consensual threesome?
Sad to see bigotry against the Unionist community still prevalent in the south.

A court of law has decided these men are innocent there really is nothing more to say.

Very few would be aware of their political or religious leanings. It's not as much of a deal here as it is in NI.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Women are certainly more objectified. But on whether men are solely responsible for this I have my doubts. Go into any night club of a weekend. It's not lads who are picking out these outfits for the girls. Women are manifestly more visually appealing than men, this is the root cause.

And dare say that a woman gets dressed up for men, you'd be shot.

31-03-2018 01:21PM

Appledreams15 wrote: »

For all the old guard calling women lunatics, **** fringes etc.
What will you think of the mass protests against rape in Ireland ,being in the international news?

What other country bar India has had mass protests about rape recently?

Ooh it will be showing up the abuse in Ireland for all to see.

Ireland - where women had their heads shaved, and were imprisoned for being raped in places that were still operating until 1996.

Ireland - where 50 men shook a rapist's hand and the victim was shunned in her own town.

Ooohh lets get all the dirt out there for the world to see.

You are living up to your username of dreamer anyway. You can spout about our society being on par with India all you want but if you’re gonna quote me I’ll come back at you with a dose of realism and not made up guff.

You seem to be putting it across that rape is accepted here in this country. Are you for real? Like actually do you believe that. You brought up prisons. Let’s go with that. I’ll tell you something. I work in a prison. I work with actual and factual scumbags day in and day out. They are what a lot of people would consider lowlifes. So imagine how morally deplorable a rapist must be in society if society’s rejects absolutely abhor them and won’t mix with them. They long to carve them up and boil sugary water to destroy their skin with. It’s that extreme, that a separate prison is needed for sex offenders, never mind a separate wing. A whole different building is warranted for these dirt bags such is the bile directed at them. So you have the lowest of the low.... about 300 feet of crap... and then the sex offenders. Everyone rejects these scum. Rape is abhorred by every facet of decent society and, tellingly, indecent society. You are full of absolute gick in a lot of your posts but this is one I couldn’t leave go.

cloudatlas · 31-03-2018 01:21PM

torqtorq wrote: »

The Irish Rugby Sponsors are such paragons of virtue.

Volkswagen
Has been caught tampering with their diesel cars emission control systems such that in the real world the tailpipe nitrous oxide emissions are many times the allowable levels. This has resulted in the death of thousands of people.
To date in USA they have been fined billions of dollars in fines.

Ulster Bank
Forever being fined for shady practices.
Central Bank's fine of €3.3m imposed for breaches of anti-money-laundering protocols.
In actual fact, Ulster bank is the most fined financial institution in Ireland. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...land-1.2850427

Vodafone
Vodafone fined €250000 by the telecoms regulator, Comreg, for incorrectly charging 250000 Irish pay-as-you-go customers when they traveled abroad.
Vodafone fined £4,625,000 by Ofcom in UK for serious and sustained breaches of consumer protection rules.
Vodafone fined €951,000 euro by Comreg for incorrect charges on 1520, 1580 and 1590 numbers.

Guinness
Guinness Nigeria fined 5 million dollars relating to the destruction and re-validation of expired raw materials.
Marketing targeting young people.

Of course and they also know their markets and who their consumers are but thanks for making the effort to google all that.

wexie · 31-03-2018 01:22PM

torqtorq wrote: »

The Irish Rugby Sponsors are such paragons of virtue.

While I wouldn't disagree with you that's not really how these things work. A lot of corporations are quite happy to follow a 'do as I say don't do as I do' ethos.

utyh2ikcq9z76b · 31-03-2018 01:22PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Some men are assholes.
Some women are sluts.
Some women are assholes.
Some men are sluts.

Technically a male slut is a stud.

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 01:22PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Where did they brag about it online? WhatsApp is a private conversation app.

Paddy is responsible for just one message. Would you have him sacked for that?

Did you do any research on anything before you decided to offer your opinion?

Everything that happened that night is now in the public domain. The question is whether all of that brings the game of rugby into disrepute.

According to your narrative, Jackson will be back playing for Ulster and Ireland soon as he has nothing to answer for.

tretorn · 31-03-2018 01:23PM

If sports clubs are going to drop every player who has casual sex and who drinks to excess there will be no one left to play.

Who do you think sponsors these sports clubs, its the alcohol industry and the sports clubs have no problem accepting this money. Its a bit hypocritical then to have an issue with young players drinking to excess when the club logo and the club premises are festooned with ads for alcohol.

No one actually cares what sports persons get up to in their own homes, wake up judgmental judys, its none of your business, are you motivated by jealousy because you dont get women hanging around VIP suites willing to go to bed with you.

The Jury gave its verdict, Jackson and Olding are not convicted rapists, their behaviour is no different to that of the vast majority of people in their twenties who go to night clubs and anyone pretending otherwise is a deluded fool.

The IRFU may give in to bullying by the feminist twits but they shouldnt, these men have lost two years of their lives with these accusations hanging over them, the case should never have been brought once Dara Florence said she saw a consenting threesome, do we listen to a thousand idiots marching led by Ruth no cop on Coppinger or accept the verdict as the rest of the country have.

cloudatlas · 31-03-2018 01:23PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

Its not just in the confines of film, theatre though is it?

I've been on trains with a hen party in the carriage and things like that!

In my younger days, in the 90's, I've often seen mates go off with girls and then the girls friends coming after my mate the following night coz they'd heard how good he was

So pull the other one!

Wow a hen party as an example, well that proves it and it's all fine.

He is good in bed, well that's a nice compliment good for him, thanks for sharing.

bigpink · 31-03-2018 01:24PM

RuMan wrote: »

2 munster and ireland players had a consensual threesome. Woman seemed to enjoy it and didnt change her mind after and accuse them falsely of rape which would have destroyed their careers.

Was this in the media or an urban myth?

sydthebeat · 31-03-2018 01:24PM

Mokuba wrote: »

If alcohol intake or sexual intercourse are prohibited by those contracts then Paddy is in trouble. As are the rest of players contracted to the IRFU.

If they sack him because he is responsible for just one subjectively offensive whatsapp message, just to appease the witch-hunt, then they are cowards.

If you know any other aspect of his behaviour which could come under question, then I'd love to know.

Im on no side here.

My post was explanatory... Not opinionated.

Uncharted · 31-03-2018 01:25PM

Omackeral wrote: »

You are living up to your username of dreamer anyway. You can spout about our society being on par with India all you want but if you’re gonna quote me I’ll come back at you with a dose of realism and not made up guff.

You seem to be putting it across that rape is accepted here in this country. Are you for real? Like actually do you believe that. You brought up prisons. Let’s go with that. I’ll tell you something. I work in a prison. I work with actual and factual scumbags day in and day out. They are what a lot of people would consider lowlifes. So imagine how morally deplorable a rapist must be in society if society’s rejects absolutely abhor them and won’t mix with them. They long to carve them up and boil sugary water to destroy their skin with. It’s that extreme, that a separate prison is needed for sex offenders, never mind a separate wing. A whole different building is warranted for these dirt bags such is the bile directed at them. So you have the lowest of the low.... about 300 feet of crap... and then the sex offenders. Everyone rejects these scum. Rape is abhorred by every facet of decent society and, tellingly, indecent society. You are full of absolute gick in a lot of your posts but this is one I couldn’t leave go.

Best post on here by a country mile.
Actual reality being spoken about,not hypothetical sjw gibberish. Kudos.

Depp · 31-03-2018 01:25PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Well I have never called for all women to do anything or ever said I know what all women think all so I am not not hypocritical at all .No one speaks for all women nor can they its that simple really

as I said not calling you out in particular, bolded part is spot on though, far too many from various groups peddling that kinda nonsense of late!

RuMan · 31-03-2018 01:25PM

bigpink wrote: »

Was this in the media or an urban myth?

Video evidence eamon

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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