Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

cloudatlas · 31-03-2018 12:56PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But an awful lot of women iare judging men as a whole. They have suggested men should attend consent classes as if they need to be taught how not to rape. They take issue with every woman related statement men make and assume that all men hate and disrespect women and only want one thing from them. They think it’s ok to judge a mans character from a few silly texts.Some have even suggested that Ireland is a dangerous place for women because we have men here.

It’s insane and frankly if that’s your mindset then you are part of the problem not the solution.

Can you seriously imagine any of the big sponsores attaching their brand to the rugger lads in this group who have actually spoken about a woman like she is a piece of meat to be 'spit roasted' that all the women at the party even the ones who supposedly liked the lads were sluts and prostitutes. Maybe it's 'normal' in some circles of men in their 20's mainly but does that mean it's okay? but you can't say that it isn't because then you get labelled a prude. When do boys learn to say this stuff who do they learn it from, a boy of 10 said something of a nasty nature to my niece 4. Where did he get it from? It's not just about lads in their 20's it's much bigger than that and it is about 'normalising' these types of words so that young boys of primary school age think that's okay to say that to a girl. It isn't and I think people who say it is are mentally deficient. The crowd at rugby matches are a lot more friendly to women than at football matches, rugby crowds are welcoming to women and if you think those women will want to support these lads then you aren't living on this planet.

wexie · 31-03-2018 12:57PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And any one claiming to speak for every single woman in Ireland is just being silly .You might and your circle might and those you speak with might .That doesn't mean anyone who doesn't and claims she doesn't is a liar .? One hand up here and I am not a liar .I have never spoken like that about any man

But the same goes for men, many men have never spoken about any women like that.

And the sooner everybody realizes that and calms down a bit we might actually have a sensible discussion about what can be done about the ones who do?

As always the truth is probably somewhere in the middle

(Not saying that you don't already realize that as you certainly seem to be pretty level headed)

optogirl · 31-03-2018 12:58PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You might not but I’d wager most of us have at some point and it wouldn’t have been in a malicious or man hating way. It would have been silly banter like PJ and his friends.

To bury your head in the sand and pretend we woman are all goodness and light is at best woefully naive.

Silly banter? Seriously. I would be heartbroken and furious if I saw texts like that on my son's phone.

sydthebeat · 31-03-2018 12:59PM

Some men are assholes.
Some women are sluts.
Some women are assholes.
Some men are sluts.

irishrebe · 31-03-2018 12:59PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

optogirl wrote: »

Nobody is judging all men. Why is that the first place so many men jump to...'were not all pricks!'. WE KNOW. There is a problem with double standards for men and women, there is a problem with reporting of rape, there is a problem with convictions in these cases. There is a sick idea that nonsense like being from a good family, being a promising athlete or being of previously good character somehow lessens the behaviour. The amount of times we hear of some abuser getting a reduced sentence because his reputation was damaged. Give me a f***ing break.

It is weary making in the extreme. Anger ensues but nobody is saying all men are rapists. That is a false trope MEN routinely use to undermine women's anger.

But an awful lot of women iare judging men as a whole. They have suggested men should attend consent classes as if they need to be taught how not to rape. They take issue with every woman related statement men make and assume that all men hate and disrespect women and only want one thing from them. They think it’s ok to judge a mans character from a few silly texts.Some have even suggested that Ireland is a dangerous place for women because we have men here.

It’s insane and frankly if that’s your mindset then you are part of the problem not the solution.

What's really hilarious to me is how so many men on here view these things as a 'punishment'. Attending consent classes means they are all automatically considered rapists, for example. I had to attend mandatory 'racism awareness' classes when I worked in London. Did I throw my toys out of the pram and tell them to stop accusing me of being racist and stop disrespecting me? Or did I welcome the opportunity to put myself in the shoes of people of other races and consider issues I might not have thought about before as a white person? I know I'm not a racist, so it didn't bother me having to go to that course. But a consent class for a man is assuming that all men are rapists?

RuMan · 31-03-2018 01:00PM

One wonders what the reaction would be to 2 munster players participating in a consensual threesome?
Sad to see bigotry against the Unionist community still prevalent in the south.

A court of law has decided these men are innocent there really is nothing more to say.

jr86 · 31-03-2018 01:00PM

irishrebe wrote: »

And innocent phrases like 'any sluts around?', 'loose vagina', yeah, totally misconstrued.

By you!!! Oh the irony

Please send me a link to the "loose VAGINA" comment please as I read through them all and can't find it.

I know that "CG" (not accused) asked was the night "loose" - common phrase in northern ireland. No sign of "loose vagina"

But hey let's make up comments and defame the 4 accused while we're at it

AudreyHepburn · 31-03-2018 01:01PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Can you seriously imagine any of the big sponsores attaching their brand to the rugger lads in this group who have actually spoken about a woman like she is a piece of meat to be 'spit roasted' that all the women at the party even the ones who supposedly liked the lads were sluts and prostitutes. Maybe it's 'normal' in some circles of men in their 20's mainly but does that mean it's okay? but you can't say that it isn't because then you get labelled a prude. When do boys learn to say this stuff who do they learn it from, a boy of 10 said something of a nasty nature to my niece 4. Where did he get it from? It's not just about lads in their 20's it's much bigger than that and it is about 'normalising' these types of words so that young boys of primary school age think that's okay to say that to a girl. It isn't and I think people who say it is are mentally deficient. The crowd at rugby matches are a lot more friendly to women than at football matches, rugby crowds are welcoming to women and if you think those women will want to support these lads then you aren't living on this planet.

First off I am not mentally deficient and I find it quite insulting to labeled so.

Second I know well what many of those rugby loving women think because I am one of them and I know many and most of them, in fact most of the women I’ve spoken to generally, feel that this was a case of misunderstandings and that texts do not imply a rape occurred.

And we all agree that the texts should never have been made public nor used as a stick to beat the four lads with.

Laois_Man · 31-03-2018 01:01PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Seriously?

Don't think men can complain that we are the ones who suffer most from objectification.

I wasn't aware men were complaining about films such as Girls Trip (or any other one of a list of "chick flick" films I could mention)! It's men who get accused of misogyny, not women accused of misandry - a word most women don't even seem to know exists. I'm not sure I have ever heard anybody speak the word in my entire life.

If women went to see a movie with a poster like that, they'd probably laugh their arses off at it - just as they did in the cinema I was in when Girls Trip was showing. Men generally, myself included, don't seem to find it nearly as funny as females do. Just the "chick-flick" brigade! Let them laugh tho - men don't actually care!

Tell me how · 31-03-2018 01:02PM

RuMan wrote: »

One wonders what the reaction would be to 2 munster players participating in a consensual threesome?
Sad to see bigotry against the Unionist community still prevalent in the south.

A court of law has decided these men are innocent there really is nothing more to say.

Small bit of a difference between Munster situation and whats going on here don't you think?

As for the bit I've highlighted, do you think the March today is in memory of the GFA?

Mokuba · 31-03-2018 01:03PM

jr86 wrote: »

It's absolutely farcical these Whatsapp texts were ever released to the public. Some of the reaction to innocent phrases like "threw her home" is honestly disturbing

Even more alarming than that is how people are attributing most of these quotes to Paddy himself.

There was one thing he said in the group chat that could be taken with any offense. The rest was by the other accused, and people not even on trial.

It's symbolic of the misinformation that is being peddled on social media in order to sell a false narrative.

I got into a (very brief and since deleted) conversation on twitter last night. It went like this:

- Something about 4 rapists being scum.
- I reply that only 2 of the men were accused of rape. 1 of the accused was actually defended by the girl herself.
- She links that copy paste of "Paddy Jacksons" WhatsApp messages.
- I reply only one of those 12 messages (or however many) was written by Paddy Jackson.
- She claims he is suing Aodhan for money.
- I reply that the windfall he will get from the BBC will solve that problem. He is not suing Aodhan for money.

Literally every single thing she said was factually wrong or speculative nonsense. And this lack of knowledge about the case is shared by most who #ibelieveher. They couldn't care less about information or facts if they don't conform to their own personal bias and worldview.

AudreyHepburn · 31-03-2018 01:04PM

irishrebe wrote: »

What's really hilarious to me is how so many men on here view these things as a 'punishment'. Attending consent classes means they are all automatically considered rapists, for example. I had to attend mandatory 'racism awareness' classes when I worked in London. Did I throw my toys out of the pram and tell them to stop accusing me of being racist and stop disrespecting me? Or did I welcome the opportunity to put myself in the shoes of people of other races and consider issues I might not have thought about before as a white person? I know I'm not a racist, so it didn't bother me having to go to that course. But a consent class for a man is assuming that all men are rapists?

The class in itself no.

The fact that anyone would suggest men need such classes, yes. At the very least it implies that you believe men are inherently rape oriented and need to be taught how not to do it. Quite demeaning really.

iamwhoiam · 31-03-2018 01:04PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You might not but I’d wager most of us have at some point and it wouldn’t have been in a malicious or man hating way. It would have been silly banter like PJ and his friends.

To bury your head in the sand and pretend we woman are all goodness and light is at best woefully naive.

Dont speak for " we women " please . You only know of your own circle . So you cannot speak for all women .

Strazdas · 31-03-2018 01:05PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Can you seriously imagine any of the big sponsores attaching their brand to the rugger lads in this group who have actually spoken about a woman like she is a piece of meat to be 'spit roasted' that all the women at the party even the ones who supposedly liked the lads were sluts and prostitutes. Maybe it's 'normal' in some circles of men in their 20's mainly but does that mean it's okay? but you can't say that it isn't because then you get labelled a prude. When do boys learn to say this stuff who do they learn it from, a boy of 10 said something of a nasty nature to my niece 4. Where did he get it from? It's not just about lads in their 20's it's much bigger than that and it is about 'normalising' these types of words so that young boys of primary school age think that's okay to say that to a girl. It isn't and I think people who say it is are mentally deficient. The crowd at rugby matches are a lot more friendly to women than at football matches, rugby crowds are welcoming to women and if you think those women will want to support these lads then you aren't living on this planet.

Former rugby international Alan Quinlan said yesterday it's very possible Jackson and Olding could be released from their contracts for "bringing the game into disrepute" (which is actually written into their contract).

There's definitely a lot of minimising going on here as if the two players and their two pals have done nothing wrong whatsoever ("they're just being typical lads") and everything is fine and dandy.

Laois_Man · 31-03-2018 01:05PM

RuMan wrote: »

One wonders what the reaction would be to 2 munster players participating in a consensual threesome?
Sad to see bigotry against the Unionist community still prevalent in the south.

A court of law has decided these men are innocent there really is nothing more to say.

Ahh **** off with that ****e

Most people in this thread would never have stopped to wonder what religion or political persuasion the defendants are!

cloudatlas · 31-03-2018 01:05PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I wasn't aware men were complaining about films such as Girls Trip (or any other one of a list of "chick flick" films I could mention)! It's men who get accused of misogyny, not women accused of misandry - a word most women don't even seem to know exists. I'm not sure I have ever heard anybody speak the word in my entire life.

If women went to see a movie with a poster like that, they'd probably laugh their arses off at it - just as they did in the cinema I was in when Girls Trip was showing. Men generally, myself included, don't seem to find it nearly as funny as females do. Just the "chick-flick" brigade! Let them laugh tho - men don't actually care!

Part of the joke is as with films like 'Bridesmaids' is women behaving badly, that is the draw, it is comedic territory therefore it is safe territory to make a joke about the reversal of roles, parody, satire, that is what comedy does best within the confines of film, theatre.

Sofiztikated · 31-03-2018 01:06PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

You might not but I’d wager most of us have at some point and it wouldn’t have been in a malicious or man hating way. It would have been silly banter like PJ and his friends.

To bury your head in the sand and pretend we woman are all goodness and light is at best woefully naive.

My Mrs knows more about the details of her girl friends sex lives than I do of my bloke friends.

She's heard my mates joke about. She says that her's would redden our faces.

wexie · 31-03-2018 01:06PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Literally every single thing she said was factually wrong or speculative nonsense. And this lack of knowledge about the case is shared by most who #ibelieveher. They couldn't care less about information or facts if they don't conform to their own personal bias and worldview.

AudreyHepburn · 31-03-2018 01:07PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Former rugby international Alan Quinlan said yesterday it's very possible Jackson and Olding could be released from their contracts for "bringing the game into disrepute" (which is actually written into their contract).

There's definitely a lot of minimising going on here as if the two players and their two pals have done nothing wrong whatsoever ("they're just being typical lads") and everything is fine and dandy.

But they haven’t done anything wrong - they’ve been found not guilty remember?

Flipper22 · 31-03-2018 01:08PM

optogirl wrote: »

Or at least the product of a society that still views men as top shaggers and the women they shag as sluts.

I don't see a society that had these views. I certainly don't. Nor do my friends. I don't see liking/having sex (or not) as in any way reflecting someone's character.

People who do make these judgments are showing more about the shallowness of their own character. They should be ignored. Who cares what they think of you anyway?

AudreyHepburn · 31-03-2018 01:08PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Dont speak for " we women " please . You only know of your own circle . So you cannot speak for all women .

Yet you seem content to do just that saying that no woman would ever talk dirty about men.

iamwhoiam · 31-03-2018 01:09PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yet you seem content to do just that saying that no woman would ever talk dirty about men.

I most certainely did not say that .I said NOT ALL Women do .

sydthebeat · 31-03-2018 01:09PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But they haven’t done anything wrong - they’ve been found not guilty remember?

Not guilty of the crime they were charged with.

That's the not same as having done nothing wrong in relation to their employment contract clauses.

Its really not that difficult to understand.

keith_sixteen · 31-03-2018 01:10PM

Surely not a coincidence that all those tweeting #suemetoo are also saying how they have no money anyway.

RuMan · 31-03-2018 01:10PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Small bit of a difference between Munster situation and whats going on here don't you think?

As for the bit I've highlighted, do you think the March today is in memory of the GFA?

I've no idea what the march is for ,do the marchers?

In both cases we have consensual sex, cant see a huge difference given the court has ruled the men not guilty of rape ?

suicide_circus · 31-03-2018 01:11PM

Women are certainly more objectified. But on whether men are solely responsible for this I have my doubts. Go into any night club of a weekend. It's not lads who are picking out these outfits for the girls. Women are manifestly more visually appealing than men, this is the root cause.

wexie · 31-03-2018 01:11PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But they haven’t done anything wrong - they’ve been found not guilty remember?

They haven't done anything wrong they have been found guilty of.

That's not to say they haven't generated a huge amount of negative publicity which might well be considered (rightly or wrongly) 'bringing the game into disrepute'.

It's going to be a tough call on the IRFU and I'd imagine there are a lot of legal minds trying to figure out what they can do or should do.

AudreyHepburn · 31-03-2018 01:11PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I most certainely did not say that .I said NOT ALL Women do .

But the implication is there.

Look I’m not going to continue arguing with you. You’ve clearly decided you’re right and won’t listen any logic but your own so there’s no point.

Flipper22 · 31-03-2018 01:11PM

irishrebe wrote: »

And innocent phrases like 'any sluts around?', 'loose vagina', yeah, totally misconstrued.

Who made those comments?

RuMan · 31-03-2018 01:11PM

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Surely not a coincidence that all those tweeting #suemetoo are also saying how they have no money anyway.

#ibelievepaddyandsodothejury

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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