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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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    #1082
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,372 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    sporina wrote: »
    how is the jury selected? like 8 men and 3 women - surely it should have been equal gender wise?
    It's random.

    It's not like in the US where jurors are interviewed by the defence and prosecution.


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    #1083
    Ejeca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Ejeca


    sporina wrote: »
    how is the jury selected? like 8 men and 3 women - surely it should have been equal gender wise?

    Why does it matter? They all reached the same decision and quickly too. The judge was female FWIW.


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    #1084
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »
    One thing to take from all this, judging by the comments on twitter, fb, reddit, boards, etc, there is an awful lot of people who should never be allowed to sit on a jury.

    I agree. And it swings both ways. So many idiotic numpties now think she should be hauled back through the courts for false accusations. There are idiots on both “sides”
    Thankfully most people I’ve been speaking to in the real world about this are measured.


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    #1085
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    PistolsAtDawn wrote: »
    Do you not feel sorry for the guys, had to go through the whole trial, publicly scrutiny etc...

    Why do you feel sorry for her?
    Ah jaysus dude, read the thread - I already answered that.


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    #1086
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Noone is saying she definitely lied.

    But noone can say for certain she hasn't.

    The jury finding them not guilty puts the odds that she was.

    But we dont know.
    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    She lied. Read her cross examination.

    Some are saying she lied


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    #1087
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    Noone is saying she definitely lied.

    But noone can say for certain she hasn't.

    The jury finding them not guilty puts the odds that she was.

    But we dont know.

    Eh, yes they are.


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    #1088
    torqtorq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭torqtorq


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    If they play with Ulster or another club does a coach want the attention they are going to bring to a team. A lot of stuff which can take away from a team's sporting focus. Opposition teams may engage in a lot of sledging etc. In Ulster would you be better off developing Johnny McPhillips as an outhalf?

    What about a team's ethos? Promoting the game to youngsters. These fellas are no role models. A large percentage of people found their whatsapp messages totally crude and not acceptable for high profile sports stars.

    Connor Murray and Simon Zebo had a threesome approx 3 years ago in a Dublin hotel. Their friend generously filmed it for them. The whole of the Munster academy had seen it within 24hrs.

    How has the Munster team Ethos been since then?

    Has there been much sledging of them?

    These guys have been found not guilty in a court of law!

    But yet you suggest that they should be held to a different level of accountability than Murray and Zebo!


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    #1089
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    My thoughts and feelings on the whole thing.

    The four lads, their careers are finished. Anonymity should also extend to the accused, as well as the victim. They are likely now to face all ridicule, comment, and guilt by association, as a result of the media spotlight they have been under.

    Not guilty, does not mean she made it up, it may just mean, there was not enough evidence to convict. This should not stop any women coming forward, who feels she has been a victim. On the other hand, if she did make it up, she should face the same sentence at convection, that her accused would have got.

    Finally, the only ones who knew what happened, were those in that room, that night. There are no winners, or celebrations from this. Hopefully all involved will be able to have some kind of life after this.


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    #1090
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Are you a man? I dont believe this. No woman I know, and I know alot, has ever sent me texts or pictures of men that she has been with sexually. We have more respect for men and manners.


    Pfffttt.... yea right.

    You live a sheltered life if you believe that. For the most part men respect women and women respect men.

    There are of course some of each who don't respect the other sex but don't kid yourself that females are this childlike infantile creature who is brutalised by men all the time.


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    #1091
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Hard to believe - there are thousands of males in jails around the world for much less sexual abuse than what they did. But they are not rugby stars for sure...


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    #1092
    stateofflux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭stateofflux


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You could make the same argument towards those who are saying she's lying when there's no proof that she has, but they don't give a **** about it until it fits their narrative.

    yes but if they were convicted its highly unlikely there would have been a 'she's lying' protest march or a #idon'tbelieveher twitter movement.


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    #1093
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    I feel pornography is leading young people into experimenting with more and more types of sexual activity. The threesome in itself, when taking place with a lot of alcohol involved, is something many regret later.

    Back in the 1970s the story of the late Mick Doyle, on a Lions Tour, having sex with a girl in a bath was about as far as it went.

    Now immature people are trying to replicate what they see online, often with disastrous results.


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    #1094
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    torqtorq wrote: »
    Connor Murray and Simon Zebo had a threesome approx 3 years ago in a Dublin hotel. Their friend generously filmed it for them. The whole of the Munster academy had seen it within 24hrs.

    How has the Munster team Ethos been since then?

    Has there been much sledging of them?

    These guys have been found not guilty in a court of law!

    But yet you suggest that they should be held to a different level of accountability than Murray and Zebo!
    Murray and Zebo were not charged with rape, big difference


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    #1095
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Some are saying she lied

    I am. She lied. She said she was raped. She said they forced her. She repeated this time and tome again. To the police, to the court.

    But they didnt force her. She lied


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    #1096
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Would be precedence to revise lot of rape cases in Ireland. Dublin Rape Crisis Centre says already: Belfast trial "opened up widening debate on meaning of rape'"...


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    #1097
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    torqtorq wrote: »
    Connor Murray and Simon Zebo had a threesome approx 3 years ago in a Dublin hotel. Their friend generously filmed it for them. The whole of the Munster academy had seen it within 24hrs.

    How has the Munster team Ethos been since then?

    Has there been much sledging of them?

    These guys have been found not guilty in a court of law!

    But yet you suggest that they should be held to a different level of accountability than Murray and Zebo!

    You can't compare Zebo/Murray with a 9 week rape trial!! Not everyone knew who they were. Zebo and Murray didn't whatsapp a crude account.


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    #1098
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 5,999 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    zom wrote: »
    Hard to believe - there are thousands of males in jails around the world for much less sexual abuse than what they did. But they are not rugby stars for sure...

    Lol, there was plenty to ensure "beyond reasonable doubt".

    The decision from reading reports of he trial is the correct one.


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    #1099
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,875 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Difference between here in ROI and NI is that up there the accused can be named in a rape trial, But not the same here.

    I think that is a good thing, because if someone or some people are acquitted off they go with their lives, but if they are named, it is not the same outcome is it?

    I notice that the accuser maintains anonymity. Why is that if the accused do not?


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    #1100
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,850 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Folks are happy to say she lied, she was inconsistent, her cross examination was bad etc.


    Same folk ignore that Each of the defendants gave different stories. One identifying the wrong person entirely from the others. Their own stories stacked up less than hers IMO,

    That said these cases are the very hardest to prove so that's where I sit on the fence. I firmly believe she was involved in something she didn't want to be, but not perhaps to the full extent of some of the charges.

    and it shouldnt have been done so publicly hampered it entirely I would think in both sides.


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    #1101
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    zom wrote:
    Hard to believe - there are thousands of males in jails around the world for much less sexual abuse than what they did. But they are not rugby stars for sure...


    That is awful wording.

    Also, there are thousands of people around the world that have been sexually abused and told nobody because of the fear of not being believed.


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    #1102
    AGC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭AGC


    torqtorq wrote: »
    Connor Murray and Simon Zebo had a threesome approx 3 years ago in a Dublin hotel. Their friend generously filmed it for them. The whole of the Munster academy had seen it within 24hrs.

    How has the Munster team Ethos been since then?

    Has there been much sledging of them?

    These guys have been found not guilty in a court of law!

    But yet you suggest that they should be held to a different level of accountability than Murray and Zebo!

    From day 1 the Murray/Zebo was clearly consensual (not saying this wasn’t) it was the girl who released the info through a friend. I doubt she wanted it go as viral as it did.


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    #1103
    beefburrito
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭beefburrito


    My only opinion on this scenario is it's a very sensitive subject....no comment other than that...

    Just glad I have a quite bohemian lifestyle....

    Away from nightclubs, millenial party's, drugs, loose individuals and all that shoite...


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    #1104
    policy75
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭policy75


    Without saying who is guilty and who is not guilty how was it that the defendants names were all over the news but the accusers name was kept under wraps. Surely that is unfair?


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    #1105
    Luxxis
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Luxxis


    Sidebaro wrote: »
    That is awful wording.

    Also, there are thousands of people around the world that have been sexually abused and told nobody because of the fear of not being believed.



    A court of law cares not what you believe. It only cares what you can prove


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    #1106
    torqtorq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭torqtorq


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Murray and Zebo were not charged with rape, big difference

    You have missed the point.

    They have been found not guilty in a court law and should be treated as such.

    They should be treated no different to Zebo and Murray.


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    #1107
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    This won't affect their careers in the slightest, nor should it.
    They are innocent.

    Thanks Rory...!!!!


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    #1108
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    Deusexmachina wrote:
    I am. She lied. She said she was raped. She said they forced her. She repeated this time and tome again. To the police, to the court.


    You're very sure that she lied, can you speculate as to the reason you believe she lied?


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    #1109
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    The text messages she sent read to me like they went through a lot of drafts.

    As someone who has gotten a text like that before from a girl compared to that message, I’m sorry but it does sound scripted.


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    #1110
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    please don't bother with him.

    Great post earlier TTB on the whatsapp messages of Olding and Jackson not representing the views, or way mature males express themselves. Kudos.


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    #1111
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    spookwoman wrote: »
    Were you there? do you have evidence? if so go to the PSNI before you accuse someone of lying before a court of law.

    Leave it, Jake, it's Chinatown. ;)

    Personally, I'm looking forward to all unsuccessful plaintiffs being sued for perjury in the future. Lying bastids one and all!


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