Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Depp

Appledreams15 wrote: »

#ibelieveher no.1 trend on Twitter in Ireland.

crazy the amount of people tweeting that who literally don't understand the north and the republic have separate governments/judicial systems...twitter is bad for the brain sometimes

martingriff

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

The only victims here are the lads. They should sue the **** out of her if at all possible

Sue for what exactly it was not proven she lied. She may well believe what happened was rape (regret in the morning and other advice) it does not make her a liar even Paddy Jacksons lawyer is given out how she is been victimised by people and how her name and picture was getting out even now (I believe all these case should be held in private with no names given). The lads have admitted so serious crap went on that night (all legal) that should not have and is regretful. If what you are saying here was allowed to happen no rape victim would go and report there case in fear of a not guilt verdict

Deusexmachina

Beanybabog wrote: »

I am astonished at the amount of people who think because the men were found not guilty in court automatically means the woman was lying and should be punished for making false allegations.
The jury has to be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of their guilt. They do not have to be totally sure that they are innocent or that the complainant is lying.

So you don't accept the verdict? Are they actually just getting away with it?

david75

To a large degree they are just getting away with it.

They’ll move off to different clubs and fantastic wages.

She has to live in the town everyone knowing what happened.

The Talking Bread

Deusexmachina wrote: »

So you don't accept the verdict? Are they actually just getting away with it?

That is most definitely not what the poster said. You can accept a fair trial has played out but you cannot automatically factually assume that she was lying.

The ignorance as to how a trial by jury plays out is startling!

freshpopcorn

david75 wrote: »

To a large degree they are just getting away with it.

They’ll move off to different clubs and fantastic wages.

She has to live in the town everyone knowing what happened.

No matter where these guys goes. This will be attached to them. If a club decided to give them a chance. They'd be quickly reminded by people on social media about the case and they what's app chats and how they should drop them.

dark crystal

Deusexmachina wrote: »

So you don't accept the verdict? Are they actually just getting away with it?

The poster never said they didn't accept the verdict.

They might be getting away with it, they may be totally innocent. No one knows what went on in that bedroom that night except the people involved and with a rake of drink taken, even they mightn't have enough wits about them to know what happened exactly.

The issue is people automatically assuming the woman lied because they were found not guilty. That's not how it works as has been repeated ad nauseum throughout this thread.

Deusexmachina

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Not the brightest are you.

That's your strongest argument is it?

Deusexmachina

dark crystal wrote: »

The poster never said they didn't accept the verdict.

They might be getting away with it, they may be totally innocent. No one knows what went on in that bedroom that night except the people involved and with a rake of drink taken, even they mightn't have enough wits about them to know what happened exactly.

The issue is people automatically assuming the woman lied because they were found not guilty. That's not how it works as has been repeated ad nauseum throughout this thread.

Wrong. It is that simple. She lied. She said she was raped. She said it was non consensual. It wasn't.

The Talking Bread

Sue her????

People seem to think a jury decision amounts to factual evidence that could pertain in a civil suit!!

Christ, the ignorance!

Appledreams15

There is a protest organised at the Spire tomorrow between 12.30 and 13.30, to protest about women being failed in rape cases. Thousands expected so far.

Deusexmachina

amcalester wrote: »

You think she lied.

It has not been proven that she lied nor did the jury say that she lied.

All we know is that the jury felt it was not proven that it was rape (which is a decision I agree with) but we cannot say for definite that she lied.

She lied. Read her cross examination.

The Talking Bread

Deusexmachina wrote: »

That's your strongest argument is it?

The evidence is in black and white as to your intellect on this very forum! I don't need to add any more! :rolleyes:

markodaly

dark crystal wrote: »

Without speaking for the poster in question, she appeared to be talking specifically about rape cases. Do you believe the current rate of convictions for rape are excessive? You don't believe any reform is needed in how rape cases are handled?

Has there been independent, judicial led, peer reviewed research on this. If so, share the recommendations. If not, lobby for it.

Making law on a case like this is just bad, bad, bad! Too many emotions.

Show us the evidence needed for reform.

freshpopcorn

Appledreams15 wrote: »

There is a protest organised at the Spire tomorrow between 12.30 and 13.30, to protest about women being failed in rape cases. Thousands expected so far.

There's also one in Cork and Limerick. It's the hashtag movement.

Vladimir Poontang

Appledreams15 wrote: »

There is a protest organised at the Spire tomorrow between 12.30 and 13.30, to protest about women being failed in rape cases. Thousands expected so far.

I hope there is a counter protest by all the men whose lives have been ruined by false rape accusations

Deusexmachina

The Talking Bread wrote: »

The evidence is in black and white as to your intellect on this very forum! I don't need to add any more! :rolleyes:

Emojes and insults. Brilliant.

Skylinehead

Sheeps wrote: »

She went looking to get her gap filled, ended up alone at a party full of rugby types with a mysogynitic reputation more than willing to oblige her advances, then struggled to deal with her own shame after she sobered up. Rather than accepting responsibility for her own promiscuity or lack of ability to express clear boundaries, she cries rape, ruining four young lads in the process. Maybe next time when she's horny she can just rub one out and save the destruction she's caused.

Mod: Don't post in this thread again.

Jesus.

mcgiggles

kerplun k wrote:

I’ve never met a girl who went out looking for multiple cocks in one go, especially a 19yo, and one who came across so well when speaking about her ordeal when questioned by the defense.

Wake up and smell the coffee. They exist. My younger sister used to tell me of the sh*t her college mates got up to and that was 4 or 5 years ago.. Young ones (girls I'm talking about here as half of ye seem to think girls are oh so innocent because they can talk nice later) have gotten progressively more sexually promiscuous from a younger age in the last 10 years. Make no mistake about it.

Appledreams15 wrote:

Women do not talk about men like this. Ever.

Wrong.

Appledreams15 wrote:

Are you a man? I dont believe this. No woman I know, and I know alot, has ever sent me texts or pictures of men that she has been with sexually. We have more respect for men and manners. However I have heard numerous men brag about women they have been with, or taking it to the next level of being the utter macho dickhead, commenting on how 'bad in bed' she is. The way some men talk about women, constantly treating them with disrespect, badly needs to change.

Again you are wrong. It happens. A lot of women aren't the innocent little creatures you believe them to be.

Wheeliebin30

I wonder if the jury were asked if they think she was lying, what would they say??

dark crystal

Deusexmachina wrote: »

Yes I do understand the verdict. She lied. Her accounts of what happened were untrue. If they were true, the jury would have accepted them and the verdict would have been different. Look at the directions given by the judge. It came down to this - if she is telling the truth they are guilty, if not then they are not guilty.

https://www.ppsni.gov.uk/SiteDocuments/PPS%20Press%20Office/PPSNI%20RAPE.pdf

1.15 For there to be a conviction in the criminal court, the prosecution has to
prove the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

11.16 This is a very high standard of proof and there are many reasons why a
defendant may not be convicted. Victims should not assume that a defendant
has been acquitted because their evidence has not been believed.

markodaly

irishrebe wrote: »

Instead of comparing Ireland to the Middle East, why not compare it to the rest of Europe, and see how well it fares?

It was not me who brought up the Middle East, it was someone who's post you thanked.

Ireland comes in about average actually. Better than France, Sweden, UK, Finland, Denmark among others.

http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/submitViewTableAction.do

Wheeliebin30

How do we know the jury didnt come to their verdict because they thought she was lying?

We don't.

Ergo she COULD have been lying.

Rodin

The rule of law must be respected.

Protests like those planned tomorrow remind me of the Salem Witch trials. No respect for due process.
Innocent until proven guilty? Not in these peoples' eyes.

Vladimir Poontang

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I wonder if the jury were asked if they think she was lying, what would they say??

Given it took them a little over three hours to clear 4 men of all counts I'd say the answer would be equally unanimous and as quick.

spookwoman

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How do we know the jury didnt come to their verdict because they thought she was lying?

We don't.

Ergo she COULD have been lying.

The same with they could have actually done what they were charged with. We don't know

TheValeyard

Appledreams15 wrote: »

There is a protest organised at the Spire tomorrow between 12.30 and 13.30, to protest about women being failed in rape cases. Thousands expected so far.

What do they hope to achieve? Not everyone who claims rape has been raped. Evidence must be gathered and sorted out in a court of law. I dont see how this march would change anything or what they hope to achieve?

Wheeliebin30

spookwoman wrote: »

The same with they could have actually done what they were charged with. We don't know

But they were found not guilty.

The odds are more she lied.

TheChizler

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How do we know the jury didnt come to their verdict because they thought she was lying?

We don't.

Ergo she COULD have been lying.

I'm not sure your logic is logical...

Spanish Eyes

I think this time next week we will all have moved on.

The famous four have been acquitted. It is really all over. As are many such cases both here and in NOI.

If the famous four are deprived of earnings for Ulster Rugby they may also have a case to take since they have been proven innocent.