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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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    #902
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    An interesting perspective.

    I wonder will she sue for damages. The burden of proof in a civil cases is on the balance of probabilities.
    I doubt she wants to go through it all again.
    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Could the 4 alleged defendents also sue?
    I could sue you. Anyone can sue anyone.


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    #903
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,856 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    monty_python wrote: »
    The case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence

    Different to being found not guilty

    the case was dismissed? when did that happen?


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    #904
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,281 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    david75 wrote: »
    You were the very first person to even bring that referendum up in this thread funny enough. So it’s ok for you but nobody else? Right.

    I believe it was actually Dara (?) saying her sister linked the two. You have at least twice jumped on two posters for having differing views on each.


    Sorry fresh I'll drop it.


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    #905
    PistolsAtDawn
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    She should be prosecuted now, named and shamed.


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    #906
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    #ibelieveher no.1 trend on Twitter in Ireland.

    I think everyone is just a bit fed up of the legal systems in rep.of Ireland and Northern Ireland that nearly always lets the rape accused off.

    I am not talking about the lads in particular, the overall system needs to be changed!!!!


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    #907
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    My point was that opposing the feminist view has proven fatal for a career in so it wouldn't be surprising that the reason male guests declined the invite was due to holding a different view.
    .

    They didn't want the hassle of having be bat away a baying mob on twitter afterwards. One slip of the tongue and their career could be over as they will have demonstrated that they 'hate women', of course.

    Power abhors a vacuum and its as clear as day that the media at any rate are now the moral arbiter of society, haven taken over from the church. This media is so one sided in its view on these matters that its not even funny any more but dangerous to the well being of society.

    Feminists, no matter how bat **** crazy they are should be given a platform BUT other people (men or women) have to be given license to challenge and deconstruct their stupid ideas without having to risk their careers with every utterance and syllable they use.

    What we see is bat **** crazy feminists given free license to waffle ****e, and no one challenges them because to do so, would open yourself up to the idea that you hate women and are against equality or some other such none sense.

    No one challenged the church before because to do so, you risked a huge social cost in terms of status and social standing in the community, so they were left do what they want for decades after decades.

    We are repeating the same mistakes again now.


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    #908
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    #ibelieveher no.1 trend on Twitter in Ireland.

    I think everyone is just a bit fed up of the legal systems in rep.of Ireland and Northern Ireland that nearly always lets the rape accused off.

    I am not talking about the lads in particular, the overall system needs to be changed!!!!

    No, Just no...


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    #909
    PistolsAtDawn
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    Zulu wrote: »
    I feel sorry for the girl, whether or not she was telling porkies or not, it's a sorry sorry affair.

    Do you not feel sorry for the guys, had to go through the whole trial, publicly scrutiny etc...

    Why do you feel sorry for her?


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    #910
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    PistolsAtDawn wrote: »
    She should be prosecuted now, named and shamed.

    For what? She wasn't found guilty of anything.


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    #911
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    monty_python wrote: »
    The case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence

    Different to being found not guilty

    No it wasn't - it was unanimous - the jury could have come back and said that they couldn't agree on a verdict.


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    #912
    sightband
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 670 ✭✭✭sightband


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Ah always blame the apes.

    Surely if we have evolved from apes, our behaviour evolves too.
    Someone , a man, said to me this week, while this case is in the news,

    'Rape is a very animalistic thing, Im surprised it hasn't died out by now'.

    Are we not getting any more enlightened in anyway shape or form?? :(

    Think she described Olding as monkeyish, not apeish. She wasn’t far wrong either.


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    #913
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I don't think we can assert she was lying. "Wrong" seems to be a more appropriate label.

    Well if not that then she was wrong about what occurred.

    How do you know........... neither you nor the jury were there. You can be sure they still aren't sure in their decision but "beyond reasonable doubt " is the level they must pass to find guilty.

    So they can probably be content in doing all they can do in their duties as jurors.


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    #914
    PistolsAtDawn
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It saddens me that (regardless of whether or not she was up for it or whatever) they would want to defile a young woman like that anyway..

    On a scale of 1-10 how saddened are you by the verdict?

    Isn't there even the slightest possibility that she wanted to be plugged by big famous rugby players and then tried to grab a little fame for herself afterwards?


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    #915
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    As a woman I believe it was the right thing to see them not being guilty. But not out of sympathy but I'm a firm believer of "In dubio pro reo" is the most important principle in law. Ultimately there was no hard evidence for a rape and the evidence that was there could have gone either way. Yes it could have been rape, but it also could have been some rough, messy drunk sex from all of the involved.
    Nobody will ever really know what happened that night.

    It was a trial of no winners. Even though they walk free now they'll have a lot on their plates and let me put it like that, I don't feel remotely sorry for the lads.
    But being an utter sleazy selfish disrespectful spoilt pr1ck is no crime.

    I do believe though that they shouldn't be let back on the pitch. They are people in the public eye, they should have known better. The IRFU stands and advertises for their family friendliness and the guys acted anything but. You avoid getting into a situation like that in the first place, that's part of being a professional.


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    #916
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Faugheen wrote: »
    For what? She wasn't found guilty of anything.

    Why should the four men have their faces splashed all over the media and not her?

    You either name them all or name none of them.


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    #917
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    markodaly wrote: »
    No, Just no...

    You might feel differently if you were a rape victim.


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    #918
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    monty_python wrote: »
    The case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence

    Different to being found not guilty

    One is innocent until proven guilty.

    If there is a lack of evidence to convict then they are *drumroll*.... still innocent of all and any crimes they have been accused of.

    Therefore they are innocent and not guilty of said accused crimes.

    It is utterly amazing that people are trying to shoehorn in doubt on the verdict when the verdict was to quick and decisive.


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    #919
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    PistolsAtDawn wrote: »
    She should be prosecuted now, named and shamed.

    Prosecuted for what exactly?


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    #920
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    PistolsAtDawn wrote: »
    She should be prosecuted now, named and shamed.

    For what, exactly?


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    #921
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    dark crystal wrote: »
    You might feel differently if you were a rape victim.

    Unless everyone in Ireland is a rape victim, the other post is just wrong on so many levels.


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    #922
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    How do you know........... neither you nor the jury were there. You can be sure they still aren't sure in their decision but "beyond reasonable doubt " is the level they must pass to find guilty.

    So they can probably be content in doing all they can do in their duties as jurors.

    You don’t know how the jurors are feeling anymore than I know for sure what really happened that night.

    That said I lean very strongly towards it being a case of misunderstandings and lines blurred by drink because that’s the way the evidence tends.


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    #923
    NinetyTwoTeam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭NinetyTwoTeam


    Just based on their whatsapp msgs alone they shouldn't be back on the team, ever. If we going to worship athletes as heroes they should be held to a high standard of behavior and while i would not be so naive as to expect young men to always be perfect gentlemen, I don't feel a gang of them banding together to defile a 19 yr old young lady and leave her bleeding and crying after the encounter is in any way acceptable. will never watch ireland again if they are on the squad at all.


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    #924
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    For what? She wasn't found guilty of anything.

    Why should the four men have their faces splashed all over the media and not her?

    You either name them all or name none of them.

    I agree, but that doesn't answer my question. Take that up with the lawmakers in the North. If it were up to me none of them would have been named.

    Why should she be prosecuted? If you don't think she should then you have quoted my post with an irrelevant reply for no reason.


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    #925
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    For what? She wasn't found guilty of anything.

    Why should the four men have their faces splashed all over the media and not her?

    You either name them all or name none of them.

    I agree, but that doesn't answer my question. Take that up with the lawmakers in the North. If it were up to me none of them would have been named.

    Why should she be prosecuted? If you don't think she should then you have quoted my post with an irrelevant reply for no reason.


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    #926
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Doltanian wrote: »
    I hope the four lads go and sue every high profile twitter scumbag who is posting their anti-male. feminist hatred. They were found innocent in the court of law and I hope some of these twits on Twitter get sued for Defamation. And it is not ordinary Joe Soap bloggers but high-profile Twitter personalities.

    Why do you only recommend suing 'high-profile Twitter personalities' and not also ordinary 'Joe Soaps'? Aren't all equally responsible for what they say/ write?

    Your logic smacks a bit of how quite possibly this case ever got to the PSNI and the courts i.e. the accused included high profile defendants and their supposed conviction would have greater impact. This will all come out in the wash and we'll see if there other agendas were at play when the complainant decided to report and the prosecutor decided there was a case.


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    #927
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    markodaly wrote: »
    Unless everyone in Ireland is a rape victim, the other post is just wrong on so many levels.

    Without speaking for the poster in question, she appeared to be talking specifically about rape cases. Do you believe the current rate of convictions for rape are excessive? You don't believe any reform is needed in how rape cases are handled?


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    #928
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    markodaly wrote: »
    One is innocent until proven guilty.

    If there is a lack of evidence to convict then they are *drumroll*.... still innocent of all and any crimes they have been accused of.

    Therefore they are innocent and not guilty of said accused crimes.

    It is utterly amazing that people are trying to shoehorn in doubt on the verdict when the verdict was to quick and decisive.



    In a perfect world. Ask anyone here celebrating this verdict how they feel about Michael Jackson who was found innocent and up on charges easily disproved as a result of people using their kids to blackmail and threaten him.

    Case was thrown out of court and he rightly walked off a free man. But this stuff sticks. You can’t escape an allegation. On his level internationally nor in a small town like Derry.

    Nobody is coming out of this happy. Especially the woman involved.


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    #929
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Faugheen wrote: »
    I agree, but that doesn't answer my question. Take that up with the lawmakers in the North. If it were up to me none of them would have been named.

    Why should she be prosecuted? If you don't think she should then you have quoted my post with an irrelevant reply for no reason.

    She shouldn’t be prosecuted but you seemed to suggest she shouldn’t be named and it was that I disagree with - if the men involved can be named so can she.

    Ideal of course neither side would be named.


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    #930
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    markodaly wrote: »
    No, Just no...

    Of course, it's in your favour?

    Would you be suprised to know that Ireland is considered a bit archaic, in Europe?

    We had a rape case where 50 men shook a rapists hand in court in Ireland. Is it that far away from stoning a rape victim in the Middle East?

    We have a reputation for treating women badly.


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    #931
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,023 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why do you only recommend suing 'high-profile Twitter personalities' and not also ordinary 'Joe Soaps'? Aren't all equally responsible for what they say/ write?

    Because these people should know better?

    Like, they portray themselves as sophisticated, educated, progressive types who listen to evidence and reason. Yet, strip away the facade all they are are a bunch of jumped up loonies baying for blood because 'it feelz that way'.


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