The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

david75 wrote: »

In the run up to marriage equality we had the same mouthpieces saying we’ll have gays marrying each other to adopt kids to abuse them and What’s to stop someone marrying their sister? Or their dog?? Where does it stop?!?! These were actual arguments put forth.

It’s the same scare tactics and hysterical nonsense lost that campaign for those against it. We’re seeing the same here and again the same people making the same mistakes and undermining their own campaign with such nonsense.

I’m glad Irish people are smarter than falling for this bull****. I’m sad that there’s an deranged element of Irish people that are trying to push it. Again.

SSM was only ever going to make a difference to a minority group.
This is going to be huge.
I’m already hearing of people (on both sides) writing to their GP to demand to know his/her stance on the abortion pill.
More people are demanding to know (on both sides) if the medical card will be covering abortions.
It seems a poll of GPs has revealed that 2/3 will NOT be administering the abortion pill.
The GPs are also saying that their conscience privilege also means that they can refuse to refer a woman to a GP who WILL administer the pill.
That’s ever before the nurses get their say.
That’s just the tiny tip of the iceberg Dav

splinter65 wrote: »

I think that legislation will be introduced and very soon abortion will be widely available with no restrictions to around 20 weeks.
It will start at 12 weeks and arguments will ensue and it will creep up steadily.
Only time will tell what the long term consequences will be though.

Well, the long term consequences of allowing abortion on request up to 20 weeks is pretty easy to see from international experience - most women will have abortions within the first 12/13 weeks. Going to the British statistics, Irish women are no different.

And it makes sense when you think about it. If a women has decided that she wants an abortion, there's no reason she would intentionally wait until later on in the pregnancy to have one.

Of course, it's all rather moot, because the 12 week timeframe will be the status quo for some time to come. That's how it's been in most European countries, for decades in some cases, and Ireland will be no different. Once this legislation passes, barring some major unforseen consequence, most Irish politicians will be happy to leave it well enough alone.

pleas advice wrote: »

the time limit of 12 weeks may not be changed any time soon, but the restrictions on what abortions are permissible after that point, and the conditions imposed both before and after the 12 week limit, may well change, in fact, if not necessarily in law.

It's easy to say something may happen. I might win the Lotto tomorrow. But I know that's highly unlikely to happen.

So instead of talking about what may happen, tell us what you think is likely to happen, and why.

marsbar1 wrote: »

While I think women should have the right to do what they choose I also think that if abortion is permitted in Ireland it will be the death of the Ireland we all knew. As an immigrant I like the catholic values in Ireland even though I am not religious. Is is really that much trouble to travel to England, Wales or even Scotland?

"I'm against abortion!! Why can't they just go to England to do it?"

You might be an immigrant, but you have the Irish hypocrisy on abortion down to a tee. :rolleyes:

And btw, yes, it is that much trouble. It puts women's health at risk by splitting continuity of care between two jurisdictions, with legal restrictions on the information that can be shared. But even if it was no trouble at all, I see zero point in expecting women to do it just so someone else can pretend Ireland is abortion free.

pleas advice wrote: »

If the referendum passes, I think whatever restrictions are are put in place, after a time they will be loosened, in practice. You only have to look at abortion law in Britain, and abortion in practice in Britain to see an example of this, and I have no reason to believe it would be any different here

Ireland's laws will be more like mainland Europe than Britain's so comparisons to Britain aren't like for like. Are there examples of other European countries loosening restrictions after the on-request timeframe, and if so, what effect did this have on abortion rates after that timeframe?

splinter65 wrote: »

Well that incident in a Catholic Church did happen. It was one of two incidents in churches with repeal jumpers that was condemned by decent repeal campaigners.
Are you saying that it didn’t happen or that it wasn’t condemned?
Liberal may be right wing but it’s very popular and widely read by all walks of life. So what?

Well I guess I mustn't be 'decent', what ever the hell that means, because I reckon if celibate clerics feel they have the right to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies than that makes the workplaces of those clerics a legitimate place to protest.
No organisation has oppressed the women of Ireland as much as the Roman Catholic Church. Boo Hoo for them if some women are no longer cowering in fear of the pulpit.

Sure - get your information from a source proven to be both biased and guilty of countless acts of plagiarism aka stealing other people's work while neither acknowledging them or paying them. It will sit comfortable along side your other main sources cited - 'I'm hearing' and 'I get the impression'.

Im irish. I love my country. Not a big fan of some of my country men/ women but that's another thread.
But i do not want to see any more women having to leave this country to avail of a service that in 2018 should be here, be legal, be safe and be capabke of being availed if without shame.

marsbar1 wrote: »

While I think women should have the right to do what they choose I also think that if abortion is permitted in Ireland it will be the death of the Ireland we all knew. As an immigrant I like the catholic values in Ireland even though I am not religious. Is is really that much trouble to travel to England, Wales or even Scotland?

Great, I can't wait to see the death of that Ireland.
What "catholic values" in particular do you like?
Yes, it is that much "trouble".
A woman should be free to access abortion services and after care in the country she lives in to ensure that she is safe, her health is prioritised and she receives all the necessary care and support throughout the whole process.

average_runner wrote: »

A quick question and I haven't found the answer?


Is this something the state will provide or you got to pay for It?

It will have to be available free to medical card holders.

splinter65 wrote: »

The pictures in both incidents went viral.
All over the twitter machine and Facebook.
The girls involved certainly didn’t come out to answer their many detractors or stand up for themselves and either defend or explain their actions.
They got very little support.

So, ok, If you want to say that it’s admirable for people to go on privately owned property and abuse and trash someone else’s things and post pictures on the internet looking for praise, then that’s your prerogative. Your absolute right.

And are they genuine or is this just another prolife plant, of which there are a certain number now.

Because it seems strange that they would choose to do something for publicity reasons and then not want to claim their own actions in some way?

Whereas someone whose prochoice credentials wouldn't stand up to any scrutiny, well, you'd expect them to act a bit shy.

pitifulgod wrote: »

Looking at the image, no actual "trashing" involved. Politically charged photos in locations that represent the very organisation that is trying to restrict their rights. It might be uncomfortable for you but it's not criminal as you're pretending it is. It's politically charged statements. It wasn't particularly high profile as you portray it. I suspect you wouldn't be using the liberal if it was.

In relation to the liberal, personally I wouldn't use sites that have been found guilty of plagiarising actual journalists. They've got a clear agenda and couldn't even be bothered writing most of their news stories.

The picture was originally uploaded to a public prorepeal Facebook page attached , I think, to Maynooth University.
The picture was then spread across the internet to wide condemnation.
Whatever way you look at it it displayed gratuitous disrespect to the beliefs and faith of many people going about their business who are guilty of absolutely nothing.
Why not just admit that it is in very poor taste? It clearly is!
It’s pointless you trying to pretend that devout RC people would not be offended by this or that they have no right to be offended.
The girls in the picture had ample opportunity to surface and defend themselves and justify their performance but they were never even identified.
Maynooth at the time said that they were looking into it.
There had been a previous similar incident of a repeal jumper being spread across an alter which was also condemned on all sides.
It hasn’t happened since which indicates to me that all have accepted that causing pain and fear to innocent people is not helpful and can’t really be justified.