The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

Peregrinus

nice_guy80 wrote: »

and yet the unborn baby had plenty of protection before the 8th amendment was inserted into the constitution anyway

I don't remember hearing about the thousands of back alley abortions being carried out in the 60s, 70s, 80s
was there a concerted campaign against unborn babies before the 8th was voted in?

There was an illegal abortion trade in Ireland until legal abortion became available in the UK. For obvious reasons, hard figures are not available, but the trade certainly existed and there are, for example, records of prosecutions of people for administering abortions.

And, yes, it was a back-alley trade. It was unlawful, unregulated and unsafe. Google "Nurse Cadden" for an instance of someone being prosecuted for murder when a woman died during the administration of an abortion. At least one other women had previously died during an abortion administered by Nurse Cadden, and she had several convictions for administering abortions and for child abandonment (of an infant born alive) before her murder conviction. And there were many practitioners other than Nurse Cadden.

Business pretty much dried up once legal abortion became available in the UK, but this obviously had nothing to do with the unborn baby having "plenty of protection".

beertons

I was told a story last night about a woman who previously had an abortion, went for a smear in Holles street. The master of the hospital did the smear, and remarked of some abnormal cells. Woman said to master that she recently had an abortion. The master was making notes, looked up and said you can't tell me that. Both you and I can be prosecuted. He wrote down miscarriage on the sheet as an explanation. Happened around 2003.

Peregrinus

beertons wrote: »

I was told a story last night about a woman who previously had an abortion, went for a smear in Holles street. The master of the hospital did the smear, and remarked of some abnormal cells. Woman said to master that she recently had an abortion. The master was making notes, looked up and said you can't tell me that. Both you and I can be prosecuted. He wrote down miscarriage on the sheet as an explanation. Happened around 2003.

You may have been told this story, but it is not credible. Neither the woman nor the Master could have been prosecuted - it is not an offence to have had an abortion, and it is not an offence to know that someone has had an abortion - and the Master would have been well aware of the fact.

January

beertons wrote: »

I was told a story last night about a woman who previously had an abortion, went for a smear in Holles street. The master of the hospital did the smear, and remarked of some abnormal cells. Woman said to master that she recently had an abortion. The master was making notes, looked up and said you can't tell me that. Both you and I can be prosecuted. He wrote down miscarriage on the sheet as an explanation. Happened around 2003.

That's pretty much horse****... for the reasons stated by Peregrinus.

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eviltwin

Peregrinus wrote: »

You may have been told this story, but it is not credible. Neither the woman nor the Master could have been prosecuted - it is not an offence to have had an abortion, and it is not an offence to know that someone has had an abortion - and the Master would have been well aware of the fact.

when I told my midwife in the rotunda that I'd had an abortion - she was taking my medical history - she said it would be better not to include it. Not sure why, I didn't ask.

Ineedaname

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/03/08/a-pro-life-pattern/

So it turns out one of the people featured on the "My Abortion Story" billboards was a fake.

Not only did he not work in an abortion theatre as he claimed he's actually a convicted armed robber.

david75

Ineedaname wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/03/08/a-pro-life-pattern/

So it turns out one of the people featured on the "My Abortion Story" billboards was a fake.

Not only did he not work in an abortion theatre as he claimed he's actually a convicted armed robber.

This the pro life campaign guy that said he was a nurse? And found to be neither on the registry in Ireland or the UK? Apparently all mention of him has been removed from the PLC websites and social media platforms.
Colour me shocked. Surprised they haven’t said he was a Pro choice plant

Zubeneschamali

Ineedaname wrote: »

Not only did he not work in an abortion theatre as he claimed he's actually a convicted armed robber.

These people are rising to the stunning incompetence level of the Trump campaign.

So they could still win :pac:

PopePalpatine

Ineedaname wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/03/08/a-pro-life-pattern/

So it turns out one of the people featured on the "My Abortion Story" billboards was a fake.

Not only did he not work in an abortion theatre as he claimed he's actually a convicted armed robber.

Hey, maybe he targeted a bank holding money for one of The Spooky Hungarian Jew's front organisations! #LoveBoth

ohnonotgmail

Peregrinus wrote: »

There was an illegal abortion trade in until legal abortion became available in the UK. For obvious reasons, hard figures are not available, but the trade certainly existed and there are, for example, records of prosecutions of people for administering abortions.

And, yes, it was a back-alley trade. It was unlawful, unregulated and unsafe. Google "Nurse Cadden" for an instance of someone being prosecuted for murder when a woman died during the administration of an abortion. At least one other women had previously died during an abortion administered by Nurse Cadden, and she had several convictions for administering abortions and for child abandonment (of an infant born alive) before her murder conviction. And there were many practitioners other than Nurse Cadden.

Business pretty much dried up once legal abortion became available in the UK, but this obviously had nothing to do with the unborn baby having "plenty of protection".

Some in Dublin of a certain age might be familiar with Nurse Cadden,a famous backstreet abortionist. She was sentenced to death after one of the girls died. Ended up in the Central mental hospital.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamie_Cadden

david75

Amazing turn out and brilliant to see the majority are all young. Gotta be up around 10k

January

david75 wrote: »

Amazing turn out and brilliant to see the majority are all young. Gotta be up around 10k

It's amazing.

Unfortunately the anti choice side will horribly inflate their numbers on Saturday and say ours was a measly turn out today.

david75

January wrote: »

It's amazing.

Unfortunately the anti choice side will horribly inflate their numbers on Saturday and say ours was a measly turn out today.

I went to a pro life rally last summer. There was about 3000 there. Mostly elderly people and their very young grandkids. Really unsuitable for them to be hearing some of the stuff coming off the stage but there ye go.

The vast majority of people here tonight are college age.

January

Watching the debate live and it's amazing.

Mattie is on now, he's doing wonders for the pro-choice people.

nice_guy80

yer wan from UCD is being given a national platform to spread her views

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/facts-will-convince-many-young-people-to-vote-no-to-repeal-1.3419933?mode=amp

david75

That gob****e McGuirk is on twitter saying there were neonazis marching yesterday. It seems there were people handin out placards with ‘strike for Repeal’ On them but with the fascist Britain first logo behind it.

The plc are up to some really desperate tactics.

average_runner

Whoever allowed the march to go through rush hour should lose their job.

I don't care which side it was, but please have marches at a time that won't affect
people trying to get to creches and kids sports.

PopePalpatine

I'm surprised McGuirk would mention neo-Nazis rather than his comrades' new favourite bogeymen.

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david75

THis was the guy handing out the placards in question. What a goon. And yes that is a make America great again hat he is wearing at the irexit thing a few weeks back

https://twitter.com/nursepollyrgn/status/972090906223562752?s=21

January

average_runner wrote: »

Whoever allowed the march to go through rush hour should lose their job.

I don't care which side it was, but please have marches at a time that won't affect
people trying to get to creches and kids sports.

Isn't it terrible people were inconvenienced like that... It's exactly why it was done at that time. To highlight how hard it is for women to travel to England.

JDD

I have to agree with Average Runner January. It was a bad tactics to do it at rush hour. I see the reason for it in a strike - you inconvenience people to a point where pressure is put on an employer to resolve an issue, but that's not the right tactic to win over votes. It would have been better to organize a march on a Saturday when more people (of my age, who do have to get home to creches and sports) could have attended.

To get someone to empathise with a cancer sufferer you don't have to give them a dose of chemotherapy.

eviltwin

January wrote: »

Isn't it terrible people were inconvenienced like that... It's exactly why it was done at that time. To highlight how hard it is for women to travel to England.

yeah but a lot of those people would be pro repeal anyway. I don't think it's going to make anyone change their vote either way regardless. I just wish it had been on a weekend because I couldn't attend yesterday. It was a bad day and time imo. There is a March for Life at the weekend, I think it's a pity the Repeal side didn't do similar.

NuMarvel

average_runner wrote: »

Whoever allowed the march to go through rush hour should lose their job.

I don't care which side it was, but please have marches at a time that won't affect
people trying to get to creches and kids sports.

JDD wrote: »

I have to agree with Average Runner January. It was a bad tactics to do it at rush hour. I see the reason for it in a strike - you inconvenience people to a point where pressure is put on an employer to resolve an issue, but that's not the right tactic to win over votes. It would have been better to organize a march on a Saturday when more people (of my age, who do have to get home to creches and sports) could have attended.

To get someone to empathise with a cancer sufferer you don't have to give them a dose of chemotherapy.

This is the second or third march to be held on International Women's Day and none of the previous marches have dented public support for repeal. If yesterday's march caused more inconvenience than normal, it's probably a sign of how much more support the cause has now.

JDD

I don't think a point of a march is to actually dent support for the reason you're marching. And so it follows that the fact that support for repeal hasn't dropped because you held the march during rush hour isn't exactly something to be shouted from the rooftops. And of course there are more people coming out in support for pro-choice marches with the referendum so close. Somebody in the organizing bodies should have anticipated that, thought about the increased level of inconvenience, considered whether a bigger impact would have been made with a weekend march, and made their decision accordingly. Perhaps they did. I believe they made the wrong one. It's not a fatal mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

Laneyh

average_runner wrote: »

Whoever allowed the march to go through rush hour should lose their job.

I don't care which side it was, but please have marches at a time that won't affect
people trying to get to creches and kids sports.

Not really that much disruption some buses along O'Connell St and Eden Quay might have needed to be rerouted but other than that other modes of transport were running.

I can't imagine there would be too many parents driving via O'Connell St - Custom House Quay to collect kids from creche or sports activities.
Considering the volume of people traffic and transport was back on track quite quickly

david75

As if anyone is going to let this sway their vote and stay annoyed about it enough to remember it in May.

Laneyh

JDD wrote: »

I don't think a point of a march is to actually dent support for the reason you're marching. And so it follows that the fact that support for repeal hasn't dropped because you held the march during rush hour isn't exactly something to be shouted from the rooftops. And of course there are more people coming out in support for pro-choice marches with the referendum so close. Somebody in the organizing bodies should have anticipated that, thought about the increased level of inconvenience, considered whether a bigger impact would have been made with a weekend march, and made their decision accordingly. Perhaps they did. I believe they made the wrong one. It's not a fatal mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

I think they wanted to do something on the 8th for International Women's day.
There were multiple events around the country yesterday

Having a counter march at the same time as the pro-life march would be a definite mistake. It would descend into shouting matches and be fairly ugly.
The pro-life campaign will have one national event and bus people in

I'm sure a pro-choice weekend march will arranged in advance of the referendum.

NuMarvel

Laneyh wrote: »

Not really that much disruption some buses along O'Connell St and Eden Quay might have needed to be rerouted but other than that other modes of transport were running.

I can't imagine there would be too many parents driving via O'Connell St - Custom House Quay to collect kids from creche or sports activities.
Considering the volume of people traffic and transport was back on track quite quickly

And that's saying something considering what the LUAS extension has done to travel times in that area.