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Dublin Metrolink (just Metrolink posts here -see post #1 )

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    #4622
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    If this Metro is actually built, what is the point of retaining the luas stretch between SSG and Ranelagh?

    If theres a stop on OCS linking with the red line and dart, I dont see the need for Luas green line between OCS and STG.
    Or am I missing something?


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    #4623
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    It's all speculation atm as to where the tunnel portal will actually be. The Luas will then from the first station after the portal to Broombridge I don't see why the Luas will only run to SSG from the first station after the portal. That would seem daft.

    The northern section of Green Line might not actually run south of SSG. It would of course be nice if it could continue to Charlemont, but SSG is very well setup already to act as a turn back stop, as there's even an extra siding now.

    I don't know if there's a turnback after Charlemont.


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    #4624
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    If theres a stop on OCS linking with the red line and dart, I dont see the need for Luas green line between OCS and STG.
    Or am I missing something?

    For people going from SSG and the intermediate stops to places north of O'Connell Street


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    #4625
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,112 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    It's all speculation atm as to where the tunnel portal will actually be. The Luas will then from the first station after the portal to Broombridge I don't see why the Luas will only run to SSG from the first station after the portal. That would seem daft.

    So its your opinion and not fact. Fine.


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    #4626
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    If theres a stop on OCS linking with the red line and dart, I dont see the need for Luas green line between OCS and STG.
    Or am I missing something?

    A Metro will have far sparser station distribution. Meaning that the Metro will have a station at OCS, one at SSG, and the next one would probably be Ranelagh. Which skips Trinity/Westmoreland, Dawson, Harcourt, and Charlemont. Those are useful stops in a transport network.


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    #4627
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    The area between o Connel street and charlemont is jammed with office space so these stops would be used by the staff for these coming from the north side and heading to Lilly’s after croker


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    #4628
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    If theres a stop on OCS linking with the red line and dart, I dont see the need for Luas green line between OCS and STG.
    Or am I missing something?

    Yes, you are. Passengers traveling from Cabra and Finglas to Westmoreland Street, Trinity etc. would have to walk from OCS. If they're traveling further south then they'd have to switch to metro at OCS for two stops.

    Interchanges are all well and good but it doesn't make sense to remove existing infrastructure and introduce interchanges and gaps in the network for no gain. The infrastructure is there. Don't remove it just for the sake of it.


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    #4629
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    For people going from SSG AND the intermediate stops to places north of O'Connell Street

    Ok, but assuming the OCS stop is near the junction of Abbey where the Luas lines connect, and rip up the LUAS lines between there and STG, then you're only losing 2 stops - Trinity and Dawson - both Metro stops are easily walkable from those locations.

    People going from SSG to north of OCS can transfer onto the Green Luas etc

    The distance from the OCS metro to the STG metro would be 1km, 500m is easily walkable.


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    #4630
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    MJohnston wrote: »
    The northern section of Green Line might not actually run south of SSG. It would of course be nice if it could continue to Charlemont, but SSG is very well setup already to act as a turn back stop, as there's even an extra siding now.

    I don't know if there's a turnback after Charlemont.

    I'm sure one could be installed without much hitch.


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    #4631
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    There's always the possibility of the Luas going elsewhere south of SSG - the N11 springs to mind via Leeson Street.


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    #4632
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    Ok, but assuming the OCS stop is near the junction of Abbey where the Luas lines connect, and rip up the LUAS lines between there and STG, then you're only losing 2 stops - Trinity and Dawson - both Metro stops are easily walkable from those locations.

    People going from SSG to north of OCS can transfer onto the Green Luas etc

    The distance from the OCS metro to the STG metro would be 1km, 500m is easily walkable.

    I don't see the logic. The track is there we might aswell use it. No point on ripping it up.


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    #4633
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    salmocab wrote: »
    The area between o Connel street and charlemont is jammed with office space so these stops would be used by the staff for these coming from the north side and heading to Lilly’s after croker

    Ok, I made the point under the assumption the Metro stops would be : OCS, STG, Harcourt and then Ranelagh.

    Id get rid of the Charlemont stop, the harcourt stop is just 500m away and likewise the Ranelagh one.


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    #4634
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    donvito99 wrote: »
    There's always the possibility of the Luas going elsewhere south of SSG - the N11 springs to mind via Leeson Street.

    Ok good point, although I think a Rathfarmham, Terenure, harolds cross would be better


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    #4635
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    Ok, I made the point under the assumption the Metro stops would be : OCS, STG, Harcourt and then Ranelagh.

    Id get rid of the Charlemont stop, the harcourt stop is just 500m away and likewise the Ranelagh one.

    Charlemont is the second busiest stop on the line and you want to get rid of it?

    Have you taken the Luas?


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    #4636
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Charlemont is the second busiest stop on the line and you want to get rid of it?

    Have you taken the Luas?

    yeah but theyre be a metro station a few hundred meters either side.

    Its just the Luas from OCS to STG causes so much hassle for 1km of track that will have a Metro covering the same route.

    Im just thinking about once the metro is built in 10 years to be optimistic, even with the best of intentions as regards improving public transport, that part of the city center will still be vital for cars and buses, and the Luas will still be a pain in the hole crossing OCB and college green.


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    #4637
    FunkyDa2
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭FunkyDa2


    donvito99 wrote: »
    There's always the possibility of the Luas going elsewhere south of SSG - the N11 springs to mind via Leeson Street.

    Alternatively, you could have the Metro (which AFAIK is to be a light rail) emerge up Leeson Street and head out to Donnybrook, and on to UCD.


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    #4638
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    FunkyDa2 wrote: »
    Alternatively, you could have the Metro (which AFAIK is to be a light rail) emerge up Leeson Street and head out to Donnybrook, and on to UCD.

    No, that's not happening. The Metro is going to Sandyford via the existing Green Line. It's in the NDP.


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    #4639
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    yeah but theyre be a metro station a few hundred meters either side.

    Its just the Luas from OCS to STG causes so much hassle for 1km of track that will have a Metro covering the same route.

    Im just thinking about once the metro is built in 10 years to be optimistic, even with the best of intentions as regards improving public transport, that part of the city center will still be vital for cars and buses, and the Luas will still be a pain in the hole crossing OCB and college green.
    Do you really think they will remove existing infrastructure? Ten years after it was built. A good percentage of the ~€370m that Luas Cross City cost was spent on the OCS-SSG section. Everything north of Grangegorman cost a fraction of the city centre section. Not to mention over four years of disruption. It's not going to be removed.

    That's before you even get to the fact that you'd be removing existing and well used infrastructure.

    Busses and trams can coexist in the city if DCC take the proper measures. One would hope they'll have taken the measures that were needed in November 2017 by 2027. As for cars, they need to be removed from the city centre.


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    #4640
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Do you really think they will remove existing infrastructure? Ten years after it was built. A good percentage of the ~€370m that Luas Cross City cost was spent on the OCS-SSG section. Everything north of Grangegorman cost a fraction of the city centre section. Not to mention over four years of disruption. It's not going to be removed.

    That's before you even get to the fact that you'd be removing existing and well used infrastructure.

    Busses and trams can coexist in the city if DCC take the proper measures. One would hope they'll have taken the measures that were needed in November 2017 by 2027. As for cars, they need to be removed from the city centre.

    I think its reasonable to remove existing infrastructure if its duplicated and not useful.
    You can even put a metro station on Dame st/College green is it was needed.


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    #4641
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    orangerhyme wrote: »
    I think its reasonable to remove existing infrastructure if its duplicated and not useful.
    You can even put a metro station on Dame st/College green is it was needed.

    You're ignoring the fact that it's not duplicated and is useful though. There's nothing to be achieved by removing the cross city sections in 2027, and plenty to lose.

    College Green is unsuitable for a Metro station because excavation so close to Trinity would be exceptionally expensive and time consuming, this has been discussed a fair amount already over the years. And you can't go further east or west because then track curvature would be too extreme. I'd be surprised if we see anything more than Mater, OCS, and SSG as stations inside the canals.


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    #4642
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,154 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Until the plans are drawn up we won't know which route it will take so it's a bit premature to be talking about removing tracks that are less than 6 months old.


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    #4643
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,112 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Nobody has any definite plans about where anything will go yet, we all have to wait until the detailed plans are released for public consultation, which should be in a couple of months.

    Any supposition I've made above has been based on previous plans that are no longer being used, or based on the map supplied at yesterday's announcement (which is what showed no shared Luas/Metro running). The speculation on the location of the Metro tunnel surfacing is based on the NTA intervening in planning applications around the expected location.

    That's a reasonable opinion. I was just curious about the luas between the proposed portal and SSG. Other responses were being presented as fact and we are a long way off that for now.

    However I am concerned about the lack of general information re this new Metro/Green line conversion. Detailed planning is one thing,but a basic idea of how its going to pan out would be helpful. The old Carrolls building at Charlemont is still a planning issue and the NTA know about it.


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    #4644
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    bk wrote: »
    Yes, as Irish people we really aren't use to changing between trams/metros/trains but really it is completely normal on any European transport network. For instance it is totally normal to change every day between trains on the London Underground and New York Subway.

    As we get more of a high quality public transport network, changing like this will become the norm. It ends up giving you overall faster journey times and overall greater network efficiency.

    Ironic so that the Metro North scheme was castigated for that very same changing at SSG.


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    #4645
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    We've yet to see the detailed magic for how they'll get their Harcourt St bypass tunnel portal near some of the highest-value residential areas in the country, all for a portion of 600 million.

    The headline costs are also suspect, construction inflation is 7% right now. Some of these numbers are trotted around like it's still 2011 and the AECOM report was willingly accepted by a FG govt all too happy to snip the capital budget.

    It's going to cost more than the Dart interconnector itself 😅


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    #4646
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,112 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    lucernarian wrote: »
    We've yet to see the detailed magic for how they'll get their Harcourt St bypass tunnel portal near some of the highest-value residential areas in the country, all for a portion of 600 million.

    The headline costs are also suspect, construction inflation is 7% right now. Some of these numbers are trotted around like it's still 2011 and the AECOM report was willingly accepted by a FG govt all too happy to snip the capital budget.

    It's going to cost more than the Dart interconnector itself ��

    I agree completely. I am of the opinion that this latest Metro plan is nothing more than a spoof job.


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    #4647
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    If the tunnel portal is at Milltown which seems likely, you could avoid having to build another rail bridge over the road by severing the Luas line south of Milltown stop but north of the bridge and turning that part of the line into the tunnel portal.

    There would be an underground Milltown station to enable people to change between Luas and Metro at this point.


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    #4648
    BowSideChamp
    Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭BowSideChamp


    Is MetroLink planned to be single bore? Metro North was twin bore which I think is a waste of money.


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    #4649
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    BowSideChamp wrote: »
    Is MetroLink planned to be single bore? Metro North was twin bore which I think is a waste of money.

    The safety rules here say double bore


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    #4650
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    The safety rules here say double bore
    Was the option of a steel barrier ever considered, to partition a single bore? Would that be feasible, more to the point?


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    #4651
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    spacetweek wrote: »
    If the tunnel portal is at Milltown which seems likely, you could avoid having to build another rail bridge over the road by severing the Luas line south of Milltown stop but north of the bridge and turning that part of the line into the tunnel portal.

    There would be an underground Milltown station to enable people to change between Luas and Metro at this point.
    And where will the new Luas depot go, to replace Sandyford?

    If the luas stopped at charlemont, I'm thinking Broombridge could handle it. But Milltown is that bit further and involves more trams.


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