Administrative Officer 2017 Campaign

Halloween Jack · 09-02-2018 11:58pm

argonaut wrote: »

I believe it does include lunch.

Aye, it’s gross hours, you’ll be expected to do 7:24 a day, any additional time can be banked as flexi time to a max of 11 hours ie: 1.5 days.

Back in the glory days it was 6:57 though, 8-4 every day would net you 18 days extra leave

Uriel. · 10-02-2018 12:46am

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Aye, it’s gross hours, you’ll be expected to do 7:24 a day, any additional time can be banked as flexi time to a max of 11 hours ie: 1.5 days.

Back in the glory days it was 6:57 though, 8-4 every day would net you 18 days extra leave

7 27 no? Not that 3 mins makes much of a difference.

rostalof · 10-02-2018 1:39am

Uriel. wrote: »

7 27 no? Not that 3 mins makes much of a difference.

No it's definitely 7:24 and a half day is 3:42. If you work up 11:06 in a four week period, that's a day and a half flexi to be used in the next four week period, hence the 18 days 'extra' a year that was mentioned previously. It's not extra because you've worked the hours, it's really time in lieu.

Halloween Jack · 10-02-2018 2:03am

rostalof wrote: »

No it's definitely 7:24 and a half day is 3:42. If you work up 11:06 in a four week period, that's a day and a half flexi to be used in the next four week period, hence the 18 days 'extra' a year that was mentioned previously. It's not extra because you've worked the hours, it's really time in lieu.

I did say that any ‘additional’ time could be banked, two sentences previously.

rostalof · 10-02-2018 3:45am

Halloween Jack wrote: »

I did say that any ‘additional’ time could be banked, two sentences previously.

Yes, I wasn't disagreeing with you. My wife is self employed and constantly refers to the extra 18 days leave I get, regardless of how many times I point out we work those hours to get that leave!

evancunny95 · 10-02-2018 11:42am

How does it work with regards to start dates. Will they give me an option to start in a certain timeframe or just give me a day and say ok you start then. I ask because I am currently undertaking my masters abroad and I'm not due to finish thesis till end of June.

Uriel. · 10-02-2018 1:13pm

evancunny95 wrote: »

How does it work with regards to start dates. Will they give me an option to start in a certain timeframe or just give me a day and say ok you start then. I ask because I am currently undertaking my masters abroad and I'm not due to finish thesis till end of June.

You'll get a date given to you. Then you will need to discuss with HR of the relevant department about the timing and whether there is any flexibility. Doubt they'd be waiting several months for you though

You'll then need to talk to PAS about options

quad_red · 10-02-2018 2:46pm

Given we seem to be at the business end here - is there any leeway on placement? As in do you have to take what they offer you or could you argue that your skill set and experience might suit another Dept better?

jhdrum · 10-02-2018 7:05pm

quad_red wrote: »

Given we seem to be at the business end here - is there any leeway on placement? As in do you have to take what they offer you or could you argue that your skill set and experience might suit another Dept better?

Perhaps they might permit you attach a statement to your application to the effect that you should be placed in a particular department for X reason; they could take it into account at assignment stage at their own discretion. Once you're actually assigned, however, you take the job or leave it

The_Conductor · 10-02-2018 8:43pm

quad_red wrote: »

Given we seem to be at the business end here - is there any leeway on placement? As in do you have to take what they offer you or could you argue that your skill set and experience might suit another Dept better?

It would be highly unusual for them to agree to give you your choice of Department. I've heard of it happening perhaps twice in the last 20 years.

At AO or EO nowadays- we are all graduates- and we're supposed to be wholly interchangeable with one another. Any one of us- should be in a position to work in any position that opens up. The fact that you are a CIMA qualified Management Accountant- on top of a highly relevant Masters and Undergrad- is totally irrelevant- you are simply the next candidate on a list and will be offered the next position that comes up.

There is a long running joke that HR/Personnel sections have some warped sense of humour- and deliberately place people in sections where they are least likely to be in a position to use their qualifications- however, I seriously doubt its true.

Some of the larger Departments (DSP, DAFM, DFA) did approach all their staff some years ago- and asked them to fill out questionaires detailing their qualifications (aka- they knew that a sizeable portion of their staff were graduates- but had no idea graduates of what). The stated intention at the time (it must 7-8 years ago)- was to assist HR in leveraging the inhouse skills and expertise at their disposal. However- and rather stupidly- on data protection grounds- they decided, after they gathered all this information, that they couldn't use it. They never repeated the exercise- and I suspect the forms that were filled out have been utilised as rodent bedding down in the government storage facility in Tullamore..........

So- I had a TCO with a Ph.D in Law- last summer- answering questions on entitlements and scheme rules on a public desk. The waste of her skills would almost make you cry.

There is an expression- don't ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence or stupidity. Unfortunately, its very very true.

lucat · 12-02-2018 5:35pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

It would be highly unusual for them to agree to give you your choice of Department. I've heard of it happening perhaps twice in the last 20 years.

At AO or EO nowadays- we are all graduates- and we're supposed to be wholly interchangeable with one another. Any one of us- should be in a position to work in any position that opens up. The fact that you are a CIMA qualified Management Accountant- on top of a highly relevant Masters and Undergrad- is totally irrelevant- you are simply the next candidate on a list and will be offered the next position that comes up.

There is a long running joke that HR/Personnel sections have some warped sense of humour- and deliberately place people in sections where they are least likely to be in a position to use their qualifications- however, I seriously doubt its true.

Some of the larger Departments (DSP, DAFM, DFA) did approach all their staff some years ago- and asked them to fill out questionaires detailing their qualifications (aka- they knew that a sizeable portion of their staff were graduates- but had no idea graduates of what). The stated intention at the time (it must 7-8 years ago)- was to assist HR in leveraging the inhouse skills and expertise at their disposal. However- and rather stupidly- on data protection grounds- they decided, after they gathered all this information, that they couldn't use it. They never repeated the exercise- and I suspect the forms that were filled out have been utilised as rodent bedding down in the government storage facility in Tullamore..........

So- I had a TCO with a Ph.D in Law- last summer- answering questions on entitlements and scheme rules on a public desk. The waste of her skills would almost make you cry.

There is an expression- don't ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence or stupidity. Unfortunately, its very very true.

Ugh, don't even get me started. It's insane. Before I became a civil servant I worked with other governments in a role that had a fairly specialized skill-set. So I would be useful to the Irish govt. in the right role, I would have thought. Imagine my shock when I was assigned to...a totally random area that I was wholly unqualified for and had no experience in! Such a tremendous waste of tax payers money, and wasted opportunity for the civil service to become more efficient. The Private Sector would never, ever operate that way. It's just so counter-productive.

quad_red · 12-02-2018 5:54pm

Lads, you’re really selling this!

ðŸ˜€

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The_Conductor · 12-02-2018 6:02pm

Sorry

Sometimes when we're feeling a little disillusioned- the better course of action would probably be to say nothing at all.............
Unfortunately- the situation we've described is the norm, rather than the exception.
It can be pretty soul destroying at times.

quad_red · 12-02-2018 6:16pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Sorry
Sometimes when we're feeling a little disillusioned- the better course of action would probably be to say nothing at all.............
Unfortunately- the situation we've described is the norm, rather than the exception.
It can be pretty soul destroying at times.

Ah look people super appreciate the honesty of yourself and others, conductor. Makes this thread (and boards) the useful, supportive and informative entity it is.

All this makes me really nervous. I’ll be trading a secure, reasonably interesting job with decent pay and no prospects for advancement for this. Awful, awful salary with the prospect of advancement and long term career to AP at least.

Whilst we have a very affordable mortgage I’ll be asking my partner, my family to take a serious hit for a few years. That, I can take. Having to work hard I can take.

But the prospect of ending up in a dysfunctional dead end on poor money has me awake in the middle of the night wondering should I go a different route.

Uriel. · 12-02-2018 7:32pm

quad_red wrote: »

Ah look people super appreciate the honesty of yourself and others, conductor. Makes this thread (and boards) the useful, supportive and informative entity it is.

All this makes me really nervous. I’ll be trading a secure, reasonably interesting job with decent pay and no prospects for advancement for this. Awful, awful salary with the prospect of advancement and long term career to AP at least.

Whilst we have a very affordable mortgage I’ll be asking my partner, my family to take a serious hit for a few years. That, I can take. Having to work hard I can take.

But the prospect of ending up in a dysfunctional dead end on poor money has me awake in the middle of the night wondering should I go a different route.

The civil service can be about what you, yourself, make of your career. Sure starting out you might get assigned to a role or department that doesn't fit with your experience or skill set, but that in itself presents an opportunity to develop new skills and/or apply existing skills in a new way.

Further, you have a world of opportunity for sideways and upwards movement. More so than in the private sector and you can take career risks with in the service without it impacting on your overall security of employment.

Ravelleman · 13-02-2018 10:39am

Uriel. wrote: »

The civil service can be about what you, yourself, make of your career. Sure starting out you might get assigned to a role or department that doesn't fit with your experience or skill set, but that in itself presents an opportunity to develop new skills and/or apply existing skills in a new way.

Further, you have a world of opportunity for sideways and upwards movement. More so than in the private sector and you can take career risks with in the service without it impacting on your overall security of employment.

It is also worth pointing out that the Civil Service is, in the main, a career for generalists. This has deep historical origins in these isles: the Northcote–Trevelyan Report (1854). The main purpose of this is to eliminate the possibility of patronage and favouritism.

muiris1989 · 13-02-2018 6:14pm

Hi guys,

I was top 20 in the panel. My vetting and references were completed by mid-January and I received a notification in my public jobs inbox with a formal notice of assignment in a government department. The message stated that the staffing section would be in touch with me shortly regarding start date, location etc. They then provided an email address for staffing section of the department in question if I had any queries regarding my placement. So far so good and I'm very pleased with the department I've been placed in. However, this was January 16th and after sending two emails to the staffing section I have no heard anything from them.

All the required security checks have been completed from the PAS. I was just wondering if anybody in the top 20/30 on the panel have actually started their AO assignment.

Cheers,

AGC · 13-02-2018 6:38pm

muiris1989 wrote: »

Hi guys,

I was top 20 in the panel. My vetting and references were completed by mid-January and I received a notification in my public jobs inbox with a formal notice of assignment in a government department. The message stated that the staffing section would be in touch with me shortly regarding start date, location etc. They then provided an email address for staffing section of the department in question if I had any queries regarding my placement. So far so good and I'm very pleased with the department I've been placed in. However, this was January 16th and after sending two emails to the staffing section I have no heard anything from them.

All the required security checks have been completed from the PAS. I was just wondering if anybody in the top 20/30 on the panel have actually started their AO assignment.

Cheers,

Pick up the phone to them would be my advice.

evancunny95 · 13-02-2018 6:46pm

argonaut wrote: »

vicrox wrote: »

Has anyone had their interview for the role of Economist for the IGEES. Mine is tomorrow and I’m sitting in CDG airport as we speak trying to prepare. What was it like? I would greatly appreciate your advice. Thank you in advance!!!

I've mine this afternoon too, best of luck to you!

Let me know if you got my PM mate. Hopefully my messages arent going blank again:(

argonaut · 13-02-2018 8:50pm

evancunny95 wrote: »

Let me know if you got my PM mate. Hopefully my messages arent going blank again:(

Blank again I'm afraid, maybe the Civil Service should take on fixing the boards.ie infrastructure.

Tarpedo · 13-02-2018 9:13pm

Pas said today they were on 63

Uriel. · 13-02-2018 9:27pm

Tarpedo wrote: »

Pas said today they were on 63

I'd expect upwards movement on that figure shortly too

baba87 · 13-02-2018 11:26pm

Any idea how many were on the OOM post interview?

lucat · 14-02-2018 6:00pm

Uriel. wrote: »

The civil service can be about what you, yourself, make of your career. Sure starting out you might get assigned to a role or department that doesn't fit with your experience or skill set, but that in itself presents an opportunity to develop new skills and/or apply existing skills in a new way.

Further, you have a world of opportunity for sideways and upwards movement. More so than in the private sector and you can take career risks with in the service without it impacting on your overall security of employment.

That's true but with a very big caveat- promotion is competition-based within each department, and these competitions are not held frequently. This means that you may well have to go through the same process to get promoted as you do to get into the civil service in the first place, (i.e. the open competition). If I was you, I would not be factoring promotion into my decision-making at all. Too much of a long shot. Same with lateral movement. Your pay will jump every 2 years automatically, but that's different from promotion.

(I'm not trying to be negative about the civil service btw, I just want to make sure you know exactly what you're getting into, especially if you'd be taking a pay cut or missing out on opportunities in different companies etc. etc.)

evancunny95 · 14-02-2018 6:12pm

argonaut wrote: »

evancunny95 wrote: »

Let me know if you got my PM mate. Hopefully my messages arent going blank again:(

Blank again I'm afraid, maybe the Civil Service should take on fixing the boards.ie infrastructure.

Ah ffs. Anyway I just got the email from PAS confirming I got the gig as well. Now we wait for our department!

jhdrum · 14-02-2018 7:49pm

evancunny95 wrote: »

Ah ffs. Anyway I just got the email from PAS confirming I got the gig as well. Now we wait for our department!

what numbers were you guys at?

evancunny95 · 14-02-2018 7:52pm

jhdrum wrote: »

evancunny95 wrote: »

Ah ffs. Anyway I just got the email from PAS confirming I got the gig as well. Now we wait for our department!

what numbers were you guys at?

I was 8 (IGEES Competition by the way)

jhdrum · 14-02-2018 7:52pm

evancunny95 wrote: »

I was 8 (IGEES Competition by the way)

Oh cool, IGEES too, 13

Uriel. · 14-02-2018 8:22pm

lucat wrote: »

That's true but with a very big caveat- promotion is competition-based within each department, and these competitions are not held frequently. This means that you may well have to go through the same process to get promoted as you do to get into the civil service in the first place, (i.e. the open competition). If I was you, I would not be factoring promotion into my decision-making at all. Too much of a long shot. Same with lateral movement. Your pay will jump every 2 years automatically, but that's different from promotion.

(I'm not trying to be negative about the civil service btw, I just want to make sure you know exactly what you're getting into, especially if you'd be taking a pay cut or missing out on opportunities in different companies etc. etc.)

Internal promotions are, of course, competitive based. And rightly so. Wouldn't call them a long shot as such, obviously there's a number of factors and variables, but high performers who are smart about interview approaches will do well and there's substantial promotion opportunities in recent times. Most departments have a range of grade competitions every year.

I don't agree with your point on lateral movement at all. Again massive opportunity to do so either through formal secondment opportunities or through mobility either at inter departmental level (still to get off the ground fully) or via internal mobility which there is lots of, subject to the grade in question.

Ps. It's not me considering a CS career. That ship has sailed.

HairyCabbage · 15-02-2018 8:48am

lucat wrote: »

Your pay will jump every 2 years automatically, but that's different from promotion.

I was under the impression that pay increments were yearly?

Administrative Officer 2017 Campaign

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