The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Jolly Red Giant · 09-02-2018 01:19AM

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

Risky enough by the 49ers. I imagine much of it isn't guaranteed? Especially considering the Osweiler fiasco only happened 2 years ago.
And by all means I think he'll be a raging success, but he's started <10 games in his career.

$74 million guaranteed - double what Osweiler got.

Jolly Red Giant · 09-02-2018 01:27AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yeah it's a great site. Been nosying through it all evening. Didn't realise that SF had so much cash left even with this deal! But every time I use it it goes over my head. You know how there's the perceived space and then whatever the actual hit a certain player will make to the cap that isn't initially obvious and dead money etc...

Like you say, we can't seemingly afford Cousins in this market... We have $26,848,245 according to that but really we have a lot less unless we clear out which kills us anyway.

But there is clearly something else that can be played that I don't know.

Four players are definitely gone - either trade or outright cut -
Talib $11 million
Watson $4.5 million
Anderson $4.5 million
Garcia $2 million

That's $22 million extra before anything else.

I also expect Sanders to be traded with a saving of $8.5 million

Now your are at $56million in cap space - and DT is expected to restructure to bring it over $60 million.

There are several other back-ups could also get cut and the cap number could top $70 million. Some of this has to be set aside for RFAs and ERFAs and rookie contracts - but the Broncos have the money to sign Counsins if he wants to be in Denver. Minnesota is looking more likely - more cap space and a better team.

BonnieSituation · 09-02-2018 01:33AM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

$74 million guaranteed - double what Osweiler got.

But Osweiler got an actual 21mil in that solitary ****show of a year at Houston! He even got 15mil out of Cleveland. The guy is great at cashing!

BonnieSituation · 09-02-2018 01:36AM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Four players are definitely gone - either trade or outright cut -
Talib $11 million
Watson $4.5 million
Anderson $4.5 million
Garcia $2 million

That's $22 million extra before anything else.

I also expect Sanders to be traded with a saving of $8.5 million

Now your are at $56million in cap space - and DT is expected to restructure to bring it over $60 million.

There are several other back-ups could also get cut and the cap number could top $70 million. Some of this has to be set aside for RFAs and ERFAs and rookie contracts - but the Broncos have the money to sign Counsins if he wants to be in Denver. Minnesota is looking more likely - more cap space and a better team.

Cheers man. Great post.

God right you'd have to go to the vikings, but what are you going to with the QB situation there. Denver will pony up cash though if it's there and we can't wait another year for the 3 amigos to come good. It's done.

Then it's all own to who Minnesota get rid of!

Jolly Red Giant · 09-02-2018 07:49AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Cheers man. Great post.

God right you'd have to go to the vikings, but what are you going to with the QB situation there. Denver will pony up cash though if it's there and we can't wait another year for the 3 amigos to come good. It's done.

Then it's all own to who Minnesota get rid of!

Keenum has been talked about since last year. But Elway persuaded Manning to go to Denver and I think that he will get Cousins if he is not completely chasing money (if he wants money then Cleveland is the place to go - but Cousins has made a lot from the tags in Washington).

If it's Keenum or any other FA QB then it almost guarantees a QB in the draft - Elway wants Rosen but it is a question if he wants pay to trade up to get him (Rosen could drop to 1.5) and Mayfield is probably a back-up plan at 1.5. If he gets Cousins he probably trades down to the mid-first, picking up a second rounder and a first rounder next year. The Broncos have a lot of holes and not a lot of depth on the roster.

Elway is already trying to trade Siemian (he is gone either way - cap saving of $2 million) and will probably try to trade Lynch as well (it would cost too much to straight cut him) - Kelly will be given a shot (he is actually the most talented QB on the team) - but Cousins is probably worth 4-5 wins a year.

At then end of the day I don't expect much because Joseph is so bad as a HC. He had arguable a more talented roster at the senior bowl last week and yet the North team got blown out - and his refrain was what he constantly said last year 'we had a great week in practice'. I think Joseph will be gone by mid-season and I wouldn't be surprised to see Kubiak back as interim HC for the rest of the season.

BonnieSituation · 09-02-2018 09:07AM

Joseph is so uninspiring and that's even before you get into his inability.

The end-of-season presser was a horror-show. The poor fella.

This was a decent read: https://predominantlyorange.com/2018/02/04/denver-broncos-patriots-win-will-mean/

Shedite27 · 09-02-2018 09:10AM

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

Risky enough by the 49ers. I imagine much of it isn't guaranteed?

$74m guaranteed, $15m guaranteed/season, which is 3rd highest in the league*.

You'd wonder when some QB will sign a deal that is based off the average of say top 3 QB's, rather than just be the highest paid at time of signing. At the moment the highest paid QB isn't the best QB, it just tends to be the QB that signed the most recently.

* is there anywhere you can find a list of what a QB earned in a year, guaranteed + incentives attained? Would also be interesting to see take home pay, Florida based QB's need to earn less as they pay less tax than most. Carr will take home loads once they move to Nevada.

Guffy · 09-02-2018 09:39AM

I don't see Cousins going to Cleveland.

But

I think there is a lot more to it than if he wants money go to Cleveland. Look at what he has had to put up with for the last 3 years at Washington. It's basically been the same as Taylor in Buffalo whereby he has been starting for a team that didn't really want him.

At Cleveland he has the opportunity to become the franchise. He has the opportunity to go somewhere where he would be cherished by the fans as their Quarterback and the heart of a franchise that has been missing for so long. On a team that many football people consider is on the verge of being competitive in the division depending on how the off season goes, if not this year next.

At Denver, Cousins will be just another quarterback in a long line of good quarterbacks with anything but a playoff run in his first year being a failure. 6 wins with the Browns year 1 will give him a happy fanbase.

If he wants to be wanted, and loved as a qb with a chance to compete within a couple of years the Browns would be the perfect position. If he wants pressure and to only be accepted if the team wins a though division and makes the playoffs, Denver is it.

As soft as it may sound. Cousins may just want to be wanted at this stage. Become the historic franchise qb for a team.

09-02-2018 10:18AM

Also Cleveland have the cap space where they could do something like sign him Allen Robinson, jimmy graham draft saquan Barkley. They already have a good o-line that offence could be dangerous if it works out (and Flash Gordon if he actually sticks around this time)

jack presley · 09-02-2018 10:35AM

Guffy wrote: »

As soft as it may sound. Cousins may just want to be wanted at this stage. Become the historic franchise qb for a team.

He isn’t good enough to be a ‘franchise’ QB in my opinion.

Billy86 · 09-02-2018 10:40AM

Depends, if franchise QB = multiple time all pro, then probably not. But if franchise QB = high quality player capable of winning a Superbowl with the right pieces around him*, then yeah I think he can be, and might already be, one of the top 8 or so in the league and indeed that he might have it in him to even have an all pro season or two in there also.

If Jacksonville could pick him up they'd immediately be an automatic top 3-4 favourite for the Superbowl next year in my opinion (I'd worry they'll fall back to a 7/8/9 win team without him as Bortles proved he is an NFL QB this season, but not a franchise QB).

BonnieSituation · 09-02-2018 10:57AM

Shedite27 wrote: »

$74m guaranteed, $15m guaranteed/season, which is 3rd highest in the league*.

You'd wonder when some QB will sign a deal that is based off the average of say top 3 QB's, rather than just be the highest paid at time of signing. At the moment the highest paid QB isn't the best QB, it just tends to be the QB that signed the most recently.

* is there anywhere you can find a list of what a QB earned in a year, guaranteed + incentives attained? Would also be interesting to see take home pay, Florida based QB's need to earn less as they pay less tax than most. Carr will take home loads once they move to Nevada.

Everything you could want is in here. But be careful. It is absolutely a drain on your time. You get sucked right in.

https://overthecap.com/

Shedite27 · 09-02-2018 11:14AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Everything you could want is in here. But be careful. It is absolutely a drain on your time. You get sucked right in.

https://overthecap.com/

Can you figure out from that how much a QB earned?

If I go to 2016 for example, Matty Ryan had Salary Cap value of $23.7 but cash spent of $15.7

Is Cash Spent how much their salary was for the year? Flacco and Luck both had cash spent of $44m that year.

09-02-2018 11:33AM

jack presley wrote: »

He isn’t good enough to be a ‘franchise’ QB in my opinion.

I mean nick foles just won super bowl MVP sooooo

jack presley · 09-02-2018 11:37AM

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

I mean nick foles just won super bowl MVP sooooo

So have Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, neither of whom are going to Canton.

namloc1980 · 09-02-2018 11:41AM

Shedite27 wrote: »

Can you figure out from that how much a QB earned?

If I go to 2016 for example, Matty Ryan had Salary Cap value of $23.7 but cash spent of $15.7

Is Cash Spent how much their salary was for the year? Flacco and Luck both had cash spent of $44m that year.

For Matt Ryan his salary in 2016 was $15.7m but he also has a signing bonus of $5.6m and an option bonus of $2.4m leading to an overall cap hit of $23.7m.

Jolly Red Giant · 09-02-2018 11:46AM

Shedite27 wrote: »

* is there anywhere you can find a list of what a QB earned in a year, guaranteed + incentives attained? Would also be interesting to see take home pay, Florida based QB's need to earn less as they pay less tax than most. Carr will take home loads once they move to Nevada.

You can get it here -

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/

Jolly Red Giant · 09-02-2018 11:52AM

Shedite27 wrote: »

Can you figure out from that how much a QB earned?

If I go to 2016 for example, Matty Ryan had Salary Cap value of $23.7 but cash spent of $15.7

Is Cash Spent how much their salary was for the year? Flacco and Luck both had cash spent of $44m that year.

over the cap link has been posted as well -

The cash is how much money they actually receive in a year - the cap hit is based on the length and terms of a contract.

If a player signs a contract of $50million for 5 years then his average pay is $10 million a year. But he could receive a $20million signing bonus with a $2million base salary for the first year and then $7million base salary for the remaining of the contract. The player would get $22million cash in the first year but the cap hit in Year 1 would be $6million (2+ 1/5 of 20) and the cap hit for the rest of the contract would be $11million a year. GMs use this to manipulate cap figures in specific years.

BonnieSituation · 09-02-2018 12:02PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

over the cap link has been posted as well -

The cash is how much money they actually receive in a year - the cap hit is based on the length and terms of a contract.

If a player signs a contract of $50million for 5 years then his average pay is $10 million a year. But he could receive a $20million signing bonus with a $2million base salary for the first year and then $7million base salary for the remaining of the contract. The player would get $22million cash in the first year but the cap hit in Year 1 would be $6million (2+ 1/5 of 20) and the cap hit for the rest of the contract would be $11million a year. GMs use this to manipulate cap figures in specific years.

@shedite- and a great extreme example of that has been Tom Brady's contracts. His base is bugger all. But yet he's managed to scrape together 150million over his career.

One thing that really sickens me is how little practice squad players get. It's kinda scandalous. Few guys getting paid 25k a year.

Guffy · 09-02-2018 12:07PM

jack presley wrote: »

He isn’t good enough to be a ‘franchise’ QB in my opinion.

What's your definition of franchise qb? He was matt ryan last year and stafford the year before on stats. Are they franchise qb's?

I honestly dont know what this guy has to do to prove he's a good to very good quarterback. 3 years of production and he had no weapons last year with an injured ol irrc. Is he Aaron Rogers? No, was Nick Foles?

If cousins were to sign with the browns they'd still have 2 of the first 4.... 3 1sts... 5 in 65 and their qb sitting in Ohio. The options that opens up. Chubb or fitzpatrick and offense. Hell if you sign cousins trade back to 5 with denver and take chubb and barkley 4/5

eagle eye · 09-02-2018 12:09PM

Broncos might have around $35 million in cap space before they sort out anything.
It's hard to see how they'd free up the room to compete for a QB in FA as things stand.
They would need to trade some big players on big contracts to free up the room to make a play.

eagle eye · 09-02-2018 12:11PM

I think Jimmy G is well worth the money. I think he will go on to be a great one. Sat behind the GOAT for a couple of years and clearly learned a lit from him. Even his movement in the pocket is so Brady like.

jack presley · 09-02-2018 12:13PM

Guffy wrote: »

What's your definition of franchise qb? He was matt ryan last year and stafford the year before on stats. Are they franchise qb's?

I honestly dont know what this guy has to do to prove he's a good to very good quarterback. 3 years of production and he had no weapons last year with an injured ol irrc. Is he Aaron Rogers? No, was Nick Foles?

If cousins were to sign with the browns they'd still have 2 of the first 4.... 3 1sts... 5 in 65 and their qb sitting in Ohio. The options that opens up. Chubb or fitzpatrick and offense. Hell if you sign cousins trade back to 5 with denver and take chubb and barkley 4/5

Hard to define what a franchise QB is but you’ll know one when you see on (Brady, Brees, Rodgers etc).

Don’t get fooled by Cousins’ stats. I’m a Redskins fan and have seen most of his games and he just doesn’t have that X factor ir whatever it is you call it.

I know there were OL issues and the skill position players weren’t there this season but even when they were, he’ll let you down.

Guffy · 09-02-2018 12:18PM

jack presley wrote: »

Hard to define what a franchise QB is but you’ll know one when you see on (Brady, Brees, Rodgers etc).

Don’t get fooled by Cousins’ stats. I’m a Redskins fan and have seen most of his games and he just doesn’t have that X factor ir whatever it is you call it.

I know there were OL issues and the skill position players weren’t there this season but even when they were, he’ll let you down.

I think your mixing up elite and franchise though, or at least we have different definitions of franchise. No one is claiming he's Rogers or Brady.

Is he good enough to bring a team to the superbowl or on multiple playoff runs?

jack presley · 09-02-2018 12:26PM

Guffy wrote: »

Is he good enough to bring a team to the superbowl or on multiple playoff runs?

No I don’t think he is. That’s what I meant by franchise (I think!!). A guy who’ll be on the team for a long time and get you to multiple playoffs, a few championship games and the odd Superbiwl or 2.

eagle eye · 09-02-2018 12:46PM

A franchise QB is somebody who consistently performs to a level slightly above average or better. He will be the team leader, he is in no danger of losing his job anytime soon.
Current franchise QB's would include Joe Flacco and Matthew Stafford. Even Derek Carr and Marcus Mariota would be close to being franchise QB's.

Jolly Red Giant · 09-02-2018 01:21PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I think Jimmy G is well worth the money. I think he will go on to be a great one. Sat behind the GOAT for a couple of years and clearly learned a lit from him. Even his movement in the pocket is so Brady like.

I think he'll be a good one too - interesting that BB phoned up the 49ers and said 'give me a 2nd' for Jimmy G - giving Kraft the two fingers for telling him to trade JG.

BonnieSituation · 09-02-2018 02:18PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

I think he'll be a good one too - interesting that BB phoned up the 49ers and said 'give me a 2nd' for Jimmy G - giving Kraft the two fingers for telling him to trade JG.

In the sense that he was worth a first?

Paully D · 09-02-2018 02:18PM

Hahahaha!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/09/boston-herald-looking-into-hoax-pulls-ron-borges-column/

https://twitter.com/wbzsports/status/961959330969989123

09-02-2018 02:21PM

jack presley wrote: »

So have Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, neither of whom are going to Canton.

How are a franchise qb and a hall of fame qb the same?

Also did either of them win MVP?

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Comments