Leo is the new king of Ireland.

FrancieBrady · 26-01-2018 7:50pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is clear that Varadkar has charm and charisma that are certainly lacking in Martin and Mcdonald. In the past, this worked for the likes of Ahern and Haughey, even though they were corrupt and had incompetent policies. Arguably, they achieved a substantial voting bonus for FF because of it.

It will be interesting to see whether Varadkar can do the same for FG. He will be excused for his gaffes and so long as he has half-decent policies and avoids any whiff of corruption, I think he could increase the FG vote during a campaign when the advantage of charisma comes to the fore.

I think Varadkar's oncoming train is his almost entire lack of charisma tbh.

Jawgap · 26-01-2018 9:23pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Varadkar's oncoming train is his almost entire lack of charisma tbh.

Charisma he has plenty of, it's empathy he lacks, or been accused of lacking.

FrancieBrady · 26-01-2018 9:32pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Charisma he has plenty of, it's empathy he lacks, or been accused of lacking.

I wouldn't agree, he is stiff, remote, affected and a smile seems to hurt him.
That won't play well in the bad times.

oscarBravo · 26-01-2018 9:56pm

Any country that chooses a leader based on "charisma" will get the leadership it deserves.

Edward M · 26-01-2018 10:03pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Any country that chooses a leader based on "charisma" will get the leadership it deserves.

Well luckily we don't get to vote for Taoiseach as such then. His party was down two points in the poll.
If his popularity translated to his party then he'd certainly be going to the polls.

FrancieBrady · 26-01-2018 10:07pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Any country that chooses a leader based on "charisma" will get the leadership it deserves.

Definitely a factor though.

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2018 11:03am

Martin led from the front on the Frances Fitzgerald debacle and Varadkar's dithering handed a massive win to FF.

The same is developing here, he again dithered and allowed Martin the upperhand and to come across as the real leader. He is now playing catch up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-says-he-will-campaign-for-liberalisation-of-abortion-laws-1.3370183

FreudianSlippers · 27-01-2018 12:17pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Any country that chooses a leader based on "charisma" will get the leadership it deserves.

That being said Trudeau does seem to have both charisma and leadership in bucketloads.

FreudianSlippers · 27-01-2018 12:19pm

Jawgap wrote: »

Charisma he has plenty of, it's empathy he lacks, or been accused of lacking.

I'm no FG supporter, but if you're referring to "parentgate" I think that has been blown way out of proportion by people and the media.

Idbatterim · 27-01-2018 3:14pm

Varadkar recognises that to be in government now a vote of 35-38% makes it nearly impossible for a government to be formed without him. Therefore he doesn't need to appeal to the country in the main, he only needs to appeal to a certain constituency.

It is a bit like the way that SF and AAA/PBP only appeal to a limited audience. Unfotunately for them, their audience is much more limited than Leo's

ok, see I no longer fully agree with the above, which I would have seen as logical only several months ago. So simple game here, I am on €50k, who do I vote for?

FG came out with the line before budget that they would raise if for everyone, including the work shy, this it was claimed, came from FG, not FF! Are FG now afraid of losing the welfare vote?! yet we have people waiting on trolleys for hours, lack of Gardai and prison spaces etc, might the money not have been better spent there, than gone up in smoke?!

Edward M · 27-01-2018 7:56pm

Another poll mirroring the last one for FG support. I'd say Leo will be pleased again.
Recent controversies don't seem to be affecting them at all.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0127/936439-opinion-poll-politics/

Jawgap · 27-01-2018 8:24pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I'm no FG supporter, but if you're referring to "parentgate" I think that has been blown way out of proportion by people and the media.

Not specifically that, but a general 'observation' I've heard from some people I know who are active in FG suggest that there is some concern that for all his smarts and talents, empathy is a bit of an issue........obviously not enough of an issue to damage his standing in the polls!!

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2018 8:53pm

Seem to remember Enda starting out the same way in the polls and he managed to merge FG and FF in everything but name.

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-01-2018 8:55pm

Terrible bang of Bertie off him like during the boom it's easy when things are going well

Edward M · 27-01-2018 9:42pm

Bit of desperation off them last two?

MayoSalmon · 27-01-2018 11:02pm

FreudianSlippers wrote:

That being said Trudeau does seem to have both charisma and leadership in bucketloads.

Trudeau is a condescending clown

theballz · 27-01-2018 11:07pm

I like Leo, he visited my workplace recently and he came across as warm and genuine. His quotes the other day about mortgage deposits for young people really annoyed me however.

As a young person whose parents are not wealthy, I am struggling myself to come up a deposit whilst paying massive rent. What he said was disappointing and raised questions tbh

road_high · 27-01-2018 11:15pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That is wishful thinking on your part.

Varadkar recognises that to be in government now a vote of 35-38% makes it nearly impossible for a government to be formed without him. Therefore he doesn't need to appeal to the country in the main, he only needs to appeal to a certain constituency.

It is a bit like the way that SF and AAA/PBP only appeal to a limited audience. Unfotunately for them, their audience is much more limited than Leo's

Leo is cultivating the FG heartland perfectly and this is where his message is resonating strongest. That the fact that comments on rewarding work/early risers narked the Loony Left so much is seen as a triumph amongst his core.
There is a strong antagonism out there towards the left amongst the middle classes that is bubbling away underneath the surface. The left and co have had an extremely easy 6 or 7 years but I have a feeling as the economic recovery is at least being more widely felt their message of doom and incessant negativity is waning. Hence their new obsession with so called "homelessness".
Enda Kenny tried to pander to all sections (with no success), Leo is not interested in spreading his franchise as thinly and that's why he is going down so well with the FG core.

Rumpy Pumpy · 27-01-2018 11:18pm

FFs volte face on water charges did them no favours I think. There was a large and relatively silent group in Ireland who wanted to see others contribute for once. Their ill-timed attempt at populism backfired.

FG do seem to best represent the type of folks who work, pay tax, and aspire to a better life for themselves and society. While also offering realistic solutions that don’t rely on magic money or voodoo economics.

ancapailldorcha · 27-01-2018 11:25pm

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Trudeau is a condescending clown

No more petty name calling please.

Fann Linn · 27-01-2018 11:27pm

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

FFs volte face on water charges did them no favours I think. There was a large and relatively silent group in Ireland who wanted to see others contribute for once. Their ill-timed attempt at populism backfired.

FG do seem to best represent the type of folks who work, pay tax, and aspire to a better life for themselves and society. While also offering realistic solutions that don’t rely on magic money or voodoo economics.

Well how come those collecting SW benefits fared out better than workers in the last budget so?

road_high · 27-01-2018 11:33pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well how come those collecting SW benefits fared out better than workers in the last budget so?

Pandering to FF's demands. That silly Confidence and Supply thing. They've always been a high tax/high welfare party. Their core vote are welfare recipients and OAPs.

FrancieBrady · 27-01-2018 11:34pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Well how come those collecting SW benefits fared out better than workers in the last budget so?

Because Leo is all about image, It suits to pretend at the moment that he is a tough new force in Irish politics. Populism appealing to the loudest voice at the given moment really.

jim salter · 28-01-2018 12:48am

seamus wrote: »

I generally disagree with a lot of this piplip

Brexit handling has certainly gone down well with him, but overall it's the economy. We're approaching full employment, people have money in their pockets, and the Government, despite being a minority, seems pretty capable of weathering rough seas like Brexit negotiations.

I think you have the "early in the morning" thing backwards. Those most irritated by it were those who pay the least tax; welfare recipients, lower waged, students, etc. Those who pay the most tax would have found his comment heartening - because they're the ones who "get up early in the morning".

There's a certain cohort of journalists who are just waiting to pounce on any speech and analyse it for potential "insensitivity" and then run with that. The perpetually outraged are easily stirred up - one comment I read asked, "What about those of us who don't start till midday?!". And if someone's comprehension of language is that poor, they're a lost cause.

Likewise the comments yesterday about mortgage deposits turned out to be a non-issue; outrage merchants doing their best to stir up outrage over honest and truthful commentary.

I think most people see through this nonsense tbh.

I'm one of the people who get up early every morning and I can tell you that I did not find his comments "heartening" (and I would hazard a guess that most people in my situation didn't find it "heartening" either), if anything I found his comments condescending. He is an elitist and couldn't give a damn about those who get up early to pay his and most other politicians over inflated salaries.

For the size of the country, the mismanagement and misappropriation of public money is shocking. The inability of any given gov't to balance the books is akin to a SLT of a company being incapable of garnering success for that company.

The finances for the country could be managed in such a way that the prosperity is real for all but of course that wouldn't sit well with all of the multi-pension, multi-expense elitist ministers we have.

Let's be real - the country is in the exact same position as we were in 2004/2005/2006 - a false economy, a false property market supported by elitist landlord politicians whom have direct links with the businesses profiteering off the backs of those that 'get up early'

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-01-2018 12:50am

He's all show and no substance and always has been.
It's soundbites and polls.

_Kaiser_ · 28-01-2018 4:29pm

Byron Polite Savannah wrote: »

He's all show and no substance and always has been.
It's soundbites and polls.

Yep.. I genuinely can't see why so many people fall for it... he's done pretty much nothing since 2011 except build his own profile to line himself up as successor to Enda (helped by the alternative being Coveney, and Micheal Martin being weak and unable to capitalise on the situation)

He did pretty much nothing in Health (thus exacerbating the current crisis), ditto in Transport (again exacerbating the situation in Dublin particularly).

He's making the right noises on Brexit but FFS, anyone in the position would be doing the same. The spin-off talk about a United Ireland though is a nonsense that people need to take off the republican/stick-it-to-the Brits hat though and think though.

Leo is far more concerned about his personal profile (as the increased spending on the "Department of Spin" shows) and being popular on social media than actually doing anything - either way! - that might have real consequences.

It's only because of FF inertia and a poor front bench that the current situation has lasted as long as it has IMO.

Galwayguy35 · 28-01-2018 4:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Populism appealing to the loudest voice at the given moment really.

That kinda sounds like SF

FrancieBrady · 28-01-2018 5:00pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

That kinda sounds like SF

No, it sounds like all political parties.

Leo and Leo's supporters like to think FG are above it, but they aren't.

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-01-2018 5:06pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yep.. I genuinely can't see why so many people fall for it... he's done pretty much nothing since 2011 except build his own profile to line himself up as successor to Enda (helped by the alternative being Coveney, and Micheal Martin being weak and unable to capitalise on the situation)

He did pretty much nothing in Health (thus exacerbating the current crisis), ditto in Transport (again exacerbating the situation in Dublin particularly).

He's making the right noises on Brexit but FFS, anyone in the position would be doing the same. The spin-off talk about a United Ireland though is a nonsense that people need to take off the republican/stick-it-to-the Brits hat though and think though.

Leo is far more concerned about his personal profile (as the increased spending on the "Department of Spin" shows) and being popular on social media than actually doing anything - either way! - that might have real consequences.

It's only because of FF inertia and a poor front bench that the current situation has lasted as long as it has IMO.

Agreed. He's done nothing of substance in any department where he has worked.
His new dept of communication shows exactly where his motives lie.

But like everything, say the right things at the right time and you'll get the desired results.

One thing for Simon Harris is that he is actually trying to effect change.

MayoSalmon · 28-01-2018 5:38pm

_Kaiser_ wrote:

Yep.. I genuinely can't see why so many people fall for it... he's done pretty much nothing since 2011 except build his own profile to line himself up as successor to Enda

Same reason people fell for Obama.

Noble peace prize days into his presidency then precedes to bomb multiple countries for the next 8 years straight and yet he is still adored by the media etc

Leo is the new king of Ireland.

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