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Leo is the new king of Ireland.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Get with the message:

    FG and FF are all bad, not to be trusted, they have an agenda to sell off the country to their friends, and the country is falling down around our ears.


    Ignore the record employment, ignore the Europe-leading growth rates, ignore the highest social welfare rates in Europe, don't investigate and query exactly where the responsibility lies for any problem because it is always the Minister's fault.

    The reality is that this government has failed in addressing the key environmental challenges, hasn't invested well enough in third-level education and public transport, is prone to stupid ideas from its fringe members, and has been held back by the Dail arithmetic from a proper legislative programme but all-in-all it has generally done a good job.

    Unemployment is down, employment is up, capital spending has resumed, the economy is growing, the tools have been put in place for the local authorities to get on with providing housing, Ireland 2040 is a good plan, successful abortion referendum.

    On the other hand, there is still a lot wrong in our political system. The level of debate is pathetic - not a single commentator seems to understand that any screening programme will have false negatives. The Dail is worse, with stupid Bills on ticket-touting and the like taking up time when there is real reform to take place and the local authorities worse again, spending time talking about Bob Geldof and other nonsense.

    You are being very hypocritical once again.
    People raise genuine opinion, concerns and you boil it down to soundbites to be dismissed as not fit for discussion. Like the other day, instead of spending pages shutting down a topic you've no interest in or think isn't up to standard, maybe don't jump in at all rather than trying to shut down conversation?
    Above you are saying the topics put forward aren't worthy of discussion and if anyone has a real genuine problem with government outside of environment, 3rd level and transport, it's to be derided. That's not debate or discussion now is it?
    These comments are in answer to your very own claims. Basically you've spelled out your agenda above and I thank you for your transparency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭markodaly



    We even had one poster try and tell us that Eoghan Murphys Dept had absolutely no correlation with local authorities/had no role to play with any housing crisis. (Then in his next post told us his role was created in 2016 to try to get to grips with a housing crisis he wouldn't/couldn't be responsible for overseeing anyway)

    The "it was like that when I got here" excuse has been rolled out now since they got into power.

    If you are going to paraphrase me, at least do it correctly and honestly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    They can't really use anything as a stick considering they introduced the legislation to begin with and their councillors used said legislation to vote with the crazy lefties - shinners - and those who wrecked the economy FF.

    Some want to have their cake and eat it. :D

    Yet, here we are.

    Local Authorities were granted more power and the ability to raise funds, funds that could be used to build more social housing and provide local amenities.
    Ireland has one of the most centralised governments in the OECD, with local authorities unable to pass any meaningful legislation, other than littering laws and bylaws on parking and the like.

    So, what did the LA's do with this new found money and power? Squandered it more or less.

    The chickens are coming home to roost though, especially in Dublin.

    You wanted to know what the Dept of Housing and Environment is doing?
    In its recent ruling, An Bord Pleanála said the ministerial guidelines and national objectives justified planning permission being granted for the 29m block:

    While the An Bord Pleanála inspector’s report pre-dates the Ireland 2040 guidelines, the board’s final judgement shows the weight the new national policy will carry with the planning authority.
    Lorcan Sirr, a lecturer on housing at DIT, told Fora that these planning decisions showed the beginnings of city councils being “politically castrated”.

    The penny hasn’t dropped with them that the Department of Housing are now in control – and that’s really bad. We elect councillors on the basis they will do A, B and C; one of the jobs they do is focus on the development plan.

    “So they go through a development plan, and unaccountable civil servants say, ‘No, we have written something else because we have spoken to industry and it overrules your development plan.’ So what’s the point of a councillor?

    Sorry Lorcan Sirr, the councilors had their chance, its now time for the big boys to take charge because the children acted like children.

    Basically, what Eoghan Murphy is doing is introducing a framework to stop local councilors getting in the way of building new housing and apartments.

    By the way, I am still waiting for your own alternative solution.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    On Murphy doing his best and taking the DCC or whomever to task, just to note:
    Later that year the council announced it would go ahead with the social housing housing element of three of the estates, including St Michael’s. Six years later, it completed 75 social homes on the land.

    The council also deserves credit for running with the cost-rental proposal announced in October 2015, saying two months later that it would use this model to redevelop its vacant sites, in what it called the “land initiative”. St Michael’s was included as one of these sites.

    However, this time last year the council said Government’s delays in setting up any affordable housing scheme had meant it could not seek developers for the sites.

    Regardless, the council did press ahead and agreed a scheme for St Micheal’s involving 422 apartments and duplexes, 30 per cent of which would be social housing, 20 per cent affordable rental, and 50 per cent private homes. Last April it advertised this “development opportunity” and subsequently began the procurement process.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/fine-gael-row-distracts-from-st-michael-s-estate-saga-1.3574151

    Maybe that was then this is now like? As for Murphy and the current length of his sleeves...
    blanch152 wrote: »
    I have criticised him on here for pretending that he could do more to solve the housing crisis when the biggest problem is Dublin City Council.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    We have had one poster talking about Leo in another council area and another poster talking about Eoghan and a photo opportunity, all in the cause of defending the decision of DCC to opt for low-rise in the city centre

    Come off it lads. Get real. Do you agree with DCC and their low rise plans?

    So it seems Murphy is taking charge, rolling up his sleeves, but not responsible for housing in DCC, just taking part in a photo op :confused:
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, that is right, and look at the mess that has become, with the local residents favouring the St. Patrick's Athletic development which would regenerate the area. Another example of DCC incompetence. If I were Eoghan Murphy, I would stay miles away from any of their projects.

    So Nimbyism of a kind is right for DCC too? Maybe it is related to Leo. A football stadium so as not be incompetent?

    Might there be issues with government and Council? Government seem to tilt to and fro on high density and what they can, can't or shouldn't be doing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,267 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are being very hypocritical once again.
    People raise genuine opinion, concerns and you boil it down to soundbites to be dismissed as not fit for discussion. Like the other day, instead of spending pages shutting down a topic you've no interest in or think isn't up to standard, maybe don't jump in at all rather than trying to shut down conversation?
    Above you are saying the topics put forward aren't worthy of discussion and if anyone has a real genuine problem with government outside of environment, 3rd level and transport, it's to be derided. That's not debate or discussion now is it?
    These comments are in answer to your very own claims. Basically you've spelled out your agenda above and I thank you for your transparency.

    You have paraphrased my opinion, rightly or wrongly to saying that "anyone has a real genuine problem with government outside of environment, 3rd level and transport, it's to be derided"

    Whether or not you are correctly paraphrasing it surely I am entitled to put forward that opinion without you trying to shout it down or tell me it is not discussion?

    I don't deny anyone else their opinion, you are fully entitled to have your opinion on whatever. However, if I believe some opinions are not well-founded and I put forward the evidence for why I think so, I am also entitled to do that. Opinions aren't supposed to exist unchallenged by reality.

    Now, there has been a previous mod warning about back and forth, so I am going to leave it there.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    You have paraphrased my opinion, rightly or wrongly to saying that "anyone has a real genuine problem with government outside of environment, 3rd level and transport, it's to be derided"

    Whether or not you are correctly paraphrasing it surely I am entitled to put forward that opinion without you trying to shout it down or tell me it is not discussion?

    I don't deny anyone else their opinion, you are fully entitled to have your opinion on whatever. However, if I believe some opinions are not well-founded and I put forward the evidence for why I think so, I am also entitled to do that. Opinions aren't supposed to exist unchallenged by reality.

    Now, there has been a previous mod warning about back and forth, so I am going to leave it there.

    Are you using my point back at me? Seriously? Of course your opinion is as valid as mine. Of course we should be able to discuss politics, policy without being harangued by people with no interest in the topic other than deriding it.
    If the level of debate isn't up to my standard or in my interest, I'd be inclined to leave people to it is all.

    So we're both agree we all individuals, (*I'm not!*) and have a right to an opinion? It's like the early days of Animal Farm, 'all opinions are equal', but I can guess where it's going to go.

    The narrative on housing is confusing. We've a crisis of our own making. A crisis because DCC won't get the finger out. Murphy is/isn't involved in housing in DCC, elsewhere?
    Anyroad...


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Any alternative solutions Matt?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    If you are going to paraphrase me, at least do it correctly and honestly.

    Seems pretty clear cut to me.
    markodaly wrote: »
    Clearly, you have no idea how the government or local government works. The DCC or any local authority is not answerable to the Dept of Housing. Eoin Murphy does not oversee them.

    Eoghan doesn't oversee the local councils, they or their strategies aren't answerable to Eoghan.

    8 mins later.
    markodaly wrote: »
    For those who want to revise history, the office for Minister for Housing has only existed since 2016. It was formed as to try and get to grips with the housing crisis as Local Authorities were at best did not have the resources or the expertise, and at worst were willfully incompetent in tackling the issues

    There are local elections next year and I suggest you ask the hard questions to the local councilors.


    Eoghans minsterial position is created by the government because obviously something needs to be done to get to grips with the housing crisis and the local government authorities whom just 8 mins previous - this minister had no authority over, they (local authoritoes)weren't answerable to anyway, and he didn't oversee.

    That's a pretty clear contradiction - seems Eoghan can't be held responsible for the housing crisis (despite his Dept clearly having housing as a key role) and the councils aren't under his remit.

    And 8 mins later - he the man - role created especially for him to take control of a situation from local authorities whom are not answerable to him to begin with.

    I work for myself, but back in the times when I didn't, I can imagine my response to some new lad who started who's job was to tell me how to do mine, even though he had no power to do so.

    Like I said.

    In 8 mins the Minister has went from having no blame as he's no authority/drafted in to take control.

    **make up your mind**
    markodaly wrote: »

    By the way, I am still waiting for your own alternative solution.


    Are ye now....

    Check the thread.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Mod note:

    The OP started a thread about the rise in FG after Varadkar took the reigns. Obviously criticism of his policies can be discussed in that context.

    However, the last few pages have been an incomprehensible mix of complaints about the housing crisis, personal jibes and generally poor debate.

    So the thread is closed. Feel free to PM any moderator if you believe there are grounds for it to be reopened.


This discussion has been closed.
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