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The Kerry Babies Case

  • 18-01-2018 2:26pm
    #1
    irishguitarlad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭


    What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?


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Comments

  • #2
    diomed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I think the Gardai are very good at solving crimes.
    However, their solution is often made up.


  • #3
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    The cops have a bad habit of jumping to an assumption, and then refusing to let go of it, whatever the evidence or lack of evidence.
    (This wasn't the only crime where that has happened.)

    It's hard to know how they "could have" or "should have" investigated this distressing case: but they certainly should have let go of the Ms. Hayes angle once they found the body of her stillborn baby.

    I'm still wondering how the existence of Baby no. 1, the murdered one, was kept a secret - no suspicious neighbours, no anxious family? We don't even know where he died...such a tragedy.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    irishguitarlad wrote: »
    I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes.

    But why would they need to blame someone else to cover it up? Wouldn't the obvious thing be to just not find out who killed the child in Cahersiveen? Indeed blaming another would carry the obvious problem that the other person might and will fight it.

    I think they just got very locked into an erroneous solution. It is the way investigations by police forces go across the world, they don't have blank canvasses that are coloured in as things proceed, they form conclusions along the way and investigations are then skewed by human nature and the desire to go that way. Ian Bailey, Steven Avery and on and on and on, investigations are not scientific processes but very subjective ones.


  • #5
    .......
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  • #6
    Hector Bellend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,667 ✭✭✭Hector Bellend


    Another for the list of gardai screw ups.


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gards job is to put someone behind bars. At the end of the day it doesn't matter who, as long as they get to pat themselves on the back.


  • #8
    irishguitarlad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭irishguitarlad


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But why would they need to blame someone else to cover it up? Wouldn't the obvious thing be to just not find out who killed the child in Cahersiveen? Indeed blaming another would carry the obvious problem that the other person might and will fight it.

    I think they just got very locked into an erroneous solution. It is the way investigations by police forces go across the world, they don't have blank canvasses that are coloured in as things proceed, they form conclusions along the way and investigations are then skewed by human nature and the desire to go that way. Ian Bailey, Steven Avery and on and on and on, investigations are not scientific processes but very subjective ones.

    Yeah I think you could be right there O Conor. I see where there is this ex gardaí that keeps saying she was impregnated by two different men at the same time, like this guy is convinced.


  • #9
    Huexotzingo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 140 ✭✭Huexotzingo


    Retired garda believes Joanne Hayes had twins, calls for exhumation


    :rolleyes::mad:


  • #10
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Mindboggling case - blood types don't match, Hayes lived 50 miles away, Gardai citing the likelihood of pregnant simultaneously by two different men. Imagine if that were true (very rare occurrence) to suggest Hayes would travel the length of the county to kill one of two babies and dispose of it there is just nuts. No DNA work done so the whole thing relied on a clearly unreliable "confession".


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Mindboggling case - blood types don't match, Hayes lived 50 miles away, Gardai citing the likelihood of pregnant simultaneously by two different men. Imagine if that were true (very rare occurrence) to suggest Hayes would travel the length of the county to kill one of two babies and dispose of it there is just nuts. No DNA work done so the whole thing relied on a clearly unreliable "confession".

    I think the suggestion was the Cahersiveen child was washed in by tides and was thrown into the sea in Kerryhead, much nearer Abbeydorney.

    Still doesn't make sense why someone would use 2 different methods to dispose of the bodies.


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  • #12
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Really, all this hullabaloo over an apolagy - I get the distinct feeling that Joanne Hayes would rather have done without any apolagy than it be all over the news again.

    I also see in the news this morning, Gerry O'Carroll, one of the original investigating detectives, in an interview with The Kerryman newspaper this week, is still not accepting the DNA results, wants the bodies of both babies exhumed and further DNA profiling carried out by a foreign police force and only then will he accept that Joanne Hayes is not the mother of birth babies. Absolute tool-bag!


  • #13
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Really, all this hullabaloo over an apolagy - I get the distinct feeling that Joanne Hayes would rather have done without any apolagy than it be all over the news again.

    I also see in the news this morning, Gerry O'Carroll, one of the original investigating detectives, in an interview with The Kerryman newspaper this week, is still not accepting the DNA results, wants the bodies of both babies exhumed and further DNA profiling carried out by a foreign police force and only then will he accept that Joanne Hayes is not the mother of birth babies. Absolute tool-bag!

    Dig up Gerry!


  • #14
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    I want to hear RTE’s lovechild Gerry O’Carrolls version of events


  • #15
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  • #16
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    irishguitarlad wrote: »
    What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?

    I doubt there was a cover-up of an infanticide. There was a cover-up of garda brutality, however, as is quite obvious from the tribunal, which was a disgrace on any number of levels.


  • #17
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ....... wrote: »
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    After being falsely accused of murder, beaten and intimidated by gardai, then torn apart in front of the whole nation in a tribunal that was supposed to be investigating gardai, I think they might have said she'd suffered enough.


  • #18
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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  • #19
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    irishguitarlad wrote: »
    Yeah I think you could be right there O Conor. I see where there is this ex gardaí that keeps saying she was impregnated by two different men at the same time, like this guy is convinced.

    Even today when approached by The Kerryman, even in the face of the DNA results he insists that he is right, that J Hayes was the mother of twins by 2 different married men and that she is the mother of stabbed baby John.
    He wants Scotland Yard to investigate.


  • #20
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    irishguitarlad wrote: »
    What do you think of it?

    Its great - I love it.

    I get to have a go at the Gardai, the judiciary, Irish society and also get to make a not-so-sly dig at the Catholic Church. I might even be able to crowbar in a contentious abortion debate.

    All while showing off my ostensibly liberal ideals whilst tellingly failing to acknowledge the murder of newborn children.

    I f--king love it.


  • #21
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    Both babies murdered by society’s foolish following of Catholic Church at the time.
    Let it go.....we are all guilty.


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  • #22
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Both babies murdered by society’s foolish following of Catholic Church at the time.
    Let it go.....we are all guilty.

    So whoever followed the Catholic Church at the time are all guilty of a crime they didn't commit.


  • #23
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ....... wrote: »
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    It was related, as they refused to investigate when she said she had buried her own baby on the farm. Also - how could you possibly have a fair trial after all that?


  • #24
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    BENDYBINN wrote: »
    Both babies murdered by society’s foolish following of Catholic Church at the time.
    Let it go.....we are all guilty.

    Joanne’s baby was stillborn.


  • #26
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ....... wrote: »
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    There are laws around burial. Can you imagine a penalty being imposed that was worse than what she suffered?


  • #27
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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  • #28
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,959 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ....... wrote: »
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    ...thus applying law but not justice.


  • #29
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,292 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    ....... wrote: »
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    It is hardly the worst crime ever and probably happens more often that you would think (at that period anyway where single mothers were spat upon).
    The sentence for a 'crime' like that would be minimal even if anyone would prosecute the case.

    Baby John on the other hand was murdered.


  • #30
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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  • #31
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    I think that people need to discuss this case without continuing to mention that lady by name. I think it's appalling that everytime the case is brought up, her name and picture is splashed across the front page of every red top. When she and her family confessed to the murder and later recanted, I have no clear idea why they did that and I'm not going to speculate but the gardai seem satisfied that she and her family had nothing to do with it so her name should be left out of the discussion.

    I grew up in Abbeydorney myself and it's a tragic case and what this lady was put through and continues to go through is shocking and disgraceful.


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