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Child Item

The Kerry Babies Case

irishguitarlad

What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?

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King of Kings

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Deleted User wrote: »

Joanne’s baby was stillborn.

the facts are that the family said the baby was stillborn. There is no record because the birth and burial was unorthodox.
No cause of death could be determined by the state pathologist when Joanne's baby was exhumed.

While I appreciate the gardai fcuked her and her family over and that was gravely wrong , it's separate to the fact they buried a baby that went to term on the sly. that is suspicious at least that something was amiss not to mention illegal

Electric Sheep

splinter65 wrote: »

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

The father of Joanne's baby has always been known, he testified at the tribunal. It was never a mystery.

RustyNut

Two things stand out for me about this.

The first is the mealy mouth apology from the guards. It should have been delivered publicly by the commissioner (acting), not some local kerry lad.

The second is the timing. The guards have been asked since the 90's to do dna analysis in this case but low and behold it all becomes public the week that the dirt is due to be aired at the Charlton Tribunal. Hardly a coincidence, good deflection. As Judge Peter Smithwic found, the most important thing to the guards is to protect the reputation of the guards above all else.

[Deleted User]

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not impossible, but it seems more thickery than anything else. Had somebody "important" been involved, they would have tried to do a better job of hanging her.

Most likely he is arrogant combined with an always right personality its become ingrained in him that he and his colleges were correct and he cant let it go.

[Deleted User]

splinter65 wrote: »

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

That is nonsensical the local community were very supportive of her and her family, remember it wasn't local Garda it was the 'murder squad' outsiders

splinter65

Odhinn wrote: »

It's not impossible, but it seems more thickery than anything else. Had somebody "important" been involved, they would have tried to do a better job of hanging her.

The main objective in the investigation from the very start was that no “decent family” man who had been lured into an occasion of sin by the temptress J Hayes, would have his “good name” and that of his family, tarnished by being named in the scandal .
I can garauntee you 100% that neither of the fathers of these 2 babies will ever be revealed.
Make no mistake though, this was the Gardai acting on behalf of the vast majority of the local community.

Odhinn

Ipso wrote: »

I wonder if it's pure pig sh1t thickness or were they protecting one of our betters.

It's not impossible, but it seems more thickery than anything else. Had somebody "important" been involved, they would have tried to do a better job of hanging her.

Ipso

splinter65 wrote: »

Wants both babies exhumed and Scotland Yard brought in to investigate.
No regard or respect for Ms Hayes.
No respect or regard for the remains of either baby.
Just cannot tolerate the idea that he was wrong because as far as he’s concerned he’s never been wrong in his life.
It’s all about him.
Unbearable irishness from beginning to end.

I wonder if it's pure pig sh1t thickness or were they protecting one of our betters.

Laois_Man

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

In any other country that fcuking headcase would be now stripped of his pension and jailed over his behaviour

Why is it listed as low as number 26 on the news section of the RTE website?

SEPT 23 1989

mariaalice wrote: »

That retired Garda who still believes she was the mother of the two babies despite all the evidence to the contrary what on earth is going on there he is completely delusional.

In any other country that fcuking headcase would be now stripped of his pension and jailed over his behaviour

splinter65

mariaalice wrote: »

That retired Garda who still believes she was the mother of the two babies despite all the evidence to the contrary what on earth is going on there he is completely delusional.

Wants both babies exhumed and Scotland Yard brought in to investigate.
No regard or respect for Ms Hayes.
No respect or regard for the remains of either baby.
Just cannot tolerate the idea that he was wrong because as far as he’s concerned he’s never been wrong in his life.
It’s all about him.
Unbearable irishness from beginning to end.

[Deleted User]

That retired Garda who still believes she was the mother of the two babies despite all the evidence to the contrary what on earth is going on there he is completely delusional.

erica74

I think that people need to discuss this case without continuing to mention that lady by name. I think it's appalling that everytime the case is brought up, her name and picture is splashed across the front page of every red top. When she and her family confessed to the murder and later recanted, I have no clear idea why they did that and I'm not going to speculate but the gardai seem satisfied that she and her family had nothing to do with it so her name should be left out of the discussion.

I grew up in Abbeydorney myself and it's a tragic case and what this lady was put through and continues to go through is shocking and disgraceful.

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Pawwed Rig

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It is hardly the worst crime ever and probably happens more often that you would think (at that period anyway where single mothers were spat upon).
The sentence for a 'crime' like that would be minimal even if anyone would prosecute the case.

Baby John on the other hand was murdered.

Odhinn

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...thus applying law but not justice.

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Odhinn

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There are laws around burial. Can you imagine a penalty being imposed that was worse than what she suffered?

[Deleted User]

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Both babies murdered by society’s foolish following of Catholic Church at the time.
Let it go.....we are all guilty.

Joanne’s baby was stillborn.

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Odhinn

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It was related, as they refused to investigate when she said she had buried her own baby on the farm. Also - how could you possibly have a fair trial after all that?

Dakota Dan

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Both babies murdered by society’s foolish following of Catholic Church at the time.
Let it go.....we are all guilty.

So whoever followed the Catholic Church at the time are all guilty of a crime they didn't commit.

BENDYBINN

Both babies murdered by society’s foolish following of Catholic Church at the time.
Let it go.....we are all guilty.

Your Face

irishguitarlad wrote: »

What do you think of it?

Its great - I love it.

I get to have a go at the Gardai, the judiciary, Irish society and also get to make a not-so-sly dig at the Catholic Church. I might even be able to crowbar in a contentious abortion debate.

All while showing off my ostensibly liberal ideals whilst tellingly failing to acknowledge the murder of newborn children.

I f--king love it.

splinter65

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Yeah I think you could be right there O Conor. I see where there is this ex gardaí that keeps saying she was impregnated by two different men at the same time, like this guy is convinced.

Even today when approached by The Kerryman, even in the face of the DNA results he insists that he is right, that J Hayes was the mother of twins by 2 different married men and that she is the mother of stabbed baby John.
He wants Scotland Yard to investigate.

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Odhinn

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After being falsely accused of murder, beaten and intimidated by gardai, then torn apart in front of the whole nation in a tribunal that was supposed to be investigating gardai, I think they might have said she'd suffered enough.

Odhinn

irishguitarlad wrote: »

What do you think of it? As the son of an Abbeydorney woman I take an interest in it as I kept on hearing about it growing up. I reckon the gardaí were covering up for someone when they blamed Joanna Hayes. Anyways, what's your opinion?

I doubt there was a cover-up of an infanticide. There was a cover-up of garda brutality, however, as is quite obvious from the tribunal, which was a disgrace on any number of levels.

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vicwatson

I want to hear RTE’s lovechild Gerry O’Carrolls version of events