The Sub 3 Support Thread

fletch · 10-11-2017 2:02pm

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
hot buttered scones|19:17|n/a|40:24|1:05:41|1:26:26|3:09:13|Frankfurt 2018
TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
EC1000|17:18|N/a|37:38|61:45|1:22:08|3:07:XX|Rotterdam 2018
rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:29:18|3:14:18|
healy1835|18:58|30:55|38:56|1:05:52|1:25:52|3:15:26|Rotterdam 2018
Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|2:59:10|TBC 2018
psalm69|18:12|32:53|38:43|1:13:49|1:26:51|3:12:07|Rotterdam 2018
Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
fletch|16:38|28:15|35:41|N/A|1:19:00|3:07:34|Berlin 2018 (hopefully), if not DCM 2018
Tomred1N |18:30|32:10|41:40|1:05:57|1:24:17|2:57:55|DCM 2017
Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
zulutango|18:46|n/a|39:01|n/a|1:25:28|4:33:xx|Seville 2018
Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
neilc|19:19|32:30|39:56|1:10:37|1:29:14|3:10:28|DCM 2018
SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist

I haven't raced a 10 mile in a few years nor a marathon since 2015
Looking at the table though, I really should be capable of a sub 3 as I'm equally (if not faster) than most who have achieved it

AuldManKing · 10-11-2017 2:56pm

fletch wrote: »

I haven't raced a 10 mile in a few years nor a marathon since 2015
Looking at the table though, I really should be capable of a sub 3 as I'm equally (if not faster) than most who have achieved it

Your recent HM time is a great indication - but I think you'd need to ramp your volume - that being said, there's a guy who runs with our club, who ran 2.57 in Dublin off very little Marathon Specific training. He was training for a couple of Tri's during the year.

Does a lot of cycling and a bit of swimming.

He's just not as arrogant as you

fletch · 10-11-2017 3:05pm

AuldManKing wrote: »

Your recent HM time is a great indication - but I think you'd need to ramp your volume

Absolutely...the longest run I did this year was about 26k maybe...if I was going for a sub 3, I would be following (or at least trying to follow) a marathon training plan. But ever since dabbling in tri, I'm not sure how interested I would be in running 6 days a week. I like the variety that training for a tri requires.

AuldManKing wrote: »

He's just not as arrogant as you

:P No idea what you're talking about but I do feel like I could go out tomorrow and run a sub 3 marathon on a training run :eek::D:D:D

AuldManKing · 10-11-2017 3:17pm

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
hot buttered scones|19:17|n/a|40:24|1:05:41|1:26:26|3:09:13|Frankfurt 2018
TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
AMK|17:38|28:53|36:09|1:02:30|1:24:21|2:58:01|
Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
EC1000|17:18|N/a|37:38|61:45|1:22:08|3:07:XX|Rotterdam 2018
rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:29:18|3:14:18|
healy1835|18:58|30:55|38:56|1:05:52|1:25:52|3:15:26|Rotterdam 2018
Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|2:59:10|TBC 2018
psalm69|18:12|32:53|38:43|1:13:49|1:26:51|3:12:07|Rotterdam 2018
Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
fletch|16:38|28:15|35:41|N/A|1:19:00|3:07:34|Berlin 2018 (hopefully), if not DCM 2018
Tomred1N |18:30|32:10|41:40|1:05:57|1:24:17|2:57:55|DCM 2017
Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
zulutango|18:46|n/a|39:01|n/a|1:25:28|4:33:xx|Seville 2018
Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
neilc|19:19|32:30|39:56|1:10:37|1:29:14|3:10:28|DCM 2018
SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist

noelearly · 10-11-2017 3:29pm

fletch wrote: »

Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
hot buttered scones|19:17|n/a|40:24|1:05:41|1:26:26|3:09:13|Frankfurt 2018
TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
EC1000|17:18|N/a|37:38|61:45|1:22:08|3:07:XX|Rotterdam 2018
rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:29:18|3:14:18|
healy1835|18:58|30:55|38:56|1:05:52|1:25:52|3:15:26|Rotterdam 2018
Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|2:59:10|TBC 2018
psalm69|18:12|32:53|38:43|1:13:49|1:26:51|3:12:07|Rotterdam 2018
Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
fletch|16:38|28:15|35:41|N/A|1:19:00|3:07:34|Berlin 2018 (hopefully), if not DCM 2018
Tomred1N |18:30|32:10|41:40|1:05:57|1:24:17|2:57:55|DCM 2017
Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
zulutango|18:46|n/a|39:01|n/a|1:25:28|4:33:xx|Seville 2018
Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
neilc|19:19|32:30|39:56|1:10:37|1:29:14|3:10:28|DCM 2018
SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist

I haven't raced a 10 mile in a few years nor a marathon since 2015
Looking at the table though, I really should be capable of a sub 3 as I'm equally (if not faster) than most who have achieved it

Still need to put in the work training wise. Have seen many 28 min 5 Mile lads and 16 min 5k guy's rock up and run 3.30 times.

No easy round this 3 hour stuff unfortunately

fletch · 10-11-2017 3:32pm

noelearly wrote: »

Still need to put in the work training wise. Have seen many 28 min 5 Mile lads and 16 min 5k guy's rock up and run 3.30 times.

No easy round this 3 hour stuff unfortunately

Yeh I totally understand and respect the distance, it's so much more than 2 half's together...just for personal reasons, I couldn't commit to the training this year.

squinn2912 · 10-11-2017 4:32pm

RayCun wrote: »

squinn2912 wrote: »

So on the Thursday would you recommend that I maybe do intervals some weeks and marathon paced longer runs others?

I'd recommend that you work off a plan that has a mix of different runs, and is aimed at the marathon. You could get that plan in a club, in a book, or from an online coach like Testostercone, but it should be progressive and marathon-specific.

squinn2912 wrote: »

I am considering joining a new club but work and home commitments mean I can do little training at the group times.

I would join a club, even if you think you'll only get to train with them once a week or once a fortnight (though I suppose then it depends on how expensive that club is!)

All good advice. If Testostercone were interested maybe he'd pm me the details to get the ball rolling?

Testosterscone · 10-11-2017 5:31pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

All good advice. If Testostercone were interested maybe he'd pm me the details to get the ball rolling?

Without coming across as dismissive, you have been on/off training the last 6 months due to injuries. For the forseeable future I would be not looking at training plans or marathon goals. The focus should be on getting back consistent training and forget sessions till the new year.

I know you we saying you want to focus on speed but in all honesty stick to the following base plan will serve you better than any focused plan for the time being

Recovery (MP + 120 sec)
Easy (MP + 90 sec)
Moderate (MP +30/45 sec)
AP (5k effort)

hot buttered scones · 10-11-2017 6:32pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Without coming across as dismissive, you have been on/off training the last 6 months due to injuries. For the forseeable future I would be not looking at training plans or marathon goals. The focus should be on getting back consistent training and forget sessions till the new year.

I know you we saying you want to focus on speed but in all honesty stick to the following base plan will serve you better than any focused plan for the time being

Recovery (MP + 120 sec)
Easy (MP + 90 sec)
Moderate (MP +30/45 sec)
AP (5k effort)

New link for the pace calculator:

http://www.runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

tomred1N · 10-11-2017 11:05pm

zulutango wrote: »

I have to say this thread is really informative and inspiring. Thanks all.

Can I ask contributors what their thoughts are on age? I see it's been referenced a few times in the posts above. Obviously there's a drop off in capability with age but is it a significant one and can we put some science on it? The reason I ask is that I am doing the best running I've ever done at 38 years old. The reason it's the best is that I just didn't train or run particularly well before. I can see myself making steady improvements in the next few years (sub 3 and beyond), but at the same time I'm pushing 40 now and I guess that has to be counting against me in some way. I'm just not sure how much. Not that I can do anything about it, but curious all the same.

Was at a S&C talk for runners recently . The instructor a runner himself said age was not really a factor in endurance running. Obviously it is if u have been running at a high level all your life but for the rest of us on here its not an issue if you train smart and listen to your body is telling you. ( and keep away from 800M races

) . You need to keep running though !

He also said if you have never done S&C specific to running and did it consistently for 6 months you'd be almost guaranteed to see big improvements. I know two lads who do this S&C stuff religiously are aged 48 -49 and can run sub 2:40 only having only gone sub 3 a few years ago.

I'll hold off on it a while though so I'll have something to fall back on as I get older :pac:

ooter · 10-11-2017 11:21pm

tomred1N wrote: »

Was at a S&C talk for runners recently . The instructor a runner himself said age was not really a factor in endurance running. Obviously it is if u have been running at a high level all your life but for the rest of us on here its not an issue if you train smart and listen to your body is telling you. ( and keep away from 800M races ) . You need to keep running though !

He also said if you have never done S&C specific to running and did it consistently for 6 months you'd be almost guaranteed to see big improvements. I know two lads who do this S&C stuff religiously are aged 48 -49 and can run sub 2:40 only having only gone sub 3 a few years ago.

I'll hold off on it a while though so I'll have something to fall back on as I get older :pac:

Did the instructor give any examples of the S&C specifics to do tom?

rooneyjm · 11-11-2017 3:36pm

tomred1N wrote: »

Was at a S&C talk for runners recently . The instructor a runner himself said age was not really a factor in endurance running. Obviously it is if u have been running at a high level all your life but for the rest of us on here its not an issue if you train smart and listen to your body is telling you. ( and keep away from 800M races ) . You need to keep running though !

He also said if you have never done S&C specific to running and did it consistently for 6 months you'd be almost guaranteed to see big improvements. I know two lads who do this S&C stuff religiously are aged 48 -49 and can run sub 2:40 only having only gone sub 3 a few years ago.

I'll hold off on it a while though so I'll have something to fall back on as I get older :pac:

Not exactly impartial advice. Come to my S&C class you’ll knock loads of time off your pb.
In saying that it I’d say it would help. Where did he/she advise you place such a session in the week

tomred1N · 12-11-2017 5:44pm

ooter wrote: »

Did the instructor give any examples of the S&C specifics to do tom?

He did but I'm unable to explain here in words . I may get a link that I can pass on here soon

tomred1N · 12-11-2017 5:49pm

rooneyjm wrote: »

Not exactly impartial advice. Come to my S&C class you’ll knock loads of time off your pb.
In saying that it I’d say it would help. Where did he/she advise you place such a session in the week

As impartial as you could get. Given a home workout to complete . Only cost might be to invest in a rubber band. Try to Fit in in your schedule 2 weekly when you can and when it suits but not at the expense of cutting back on running. Nothing replaces miles, sessions , long runs for 26.2 , not even paying for impartial advice !

Testosterscone · 12-11-2017 5:57pm

tomred1N wrote: »

As impartial as you could get. Given a home workout to complete . Only cost might be to invest in a rubber band. Try to Fit in in your schedule 2 weekly when you can and when it suits but not at the expense of cutting back on running. Nothing replaces miles, sessions , long runs for 26.2 , not even paying for impartial advice !

Glad to see this added. I have personally scaled back and simplified my own current S and C plan for the main reasons;

1) by keeping simply I am consistent, doing 10-15 min before I go to bed
2) getting to the gym at the moment would mean losing about 10-15 miles a week so adding to the training I am doing rather than replacing it

Kept it simple; Push ups, Body weight Squats and Single Leg deadlifts (simple compound movements which incorporate as many muscles as possible

Progression is as follows; Nightly adding 5 reps a week, once I hit 30 next progression is to drop to 15 and add another set.

Will add more later but for the next few months these along with miles and hills should have me quite strong.

Find what ever works for you I know Krusty used to do a good bit of bouldering/ rock climbing. Doesn't always have to be hyper technical just something that works alot of muscle groups without trashing your legs will add to overall strength.

RayCun · 12-11-2017 8:12pm

I do the morning (kids will change you!

)
Foam roll, calf raises, lunges, squats, press ups, and single leg deadlifts. 10 to 20 minutes, depending on how awake I am

Gym has been on and off, more on than off from this week, I hope

Swashbuckler · 12-11-2017 8:51pm

RayCun wrote:

I do the morning (kids will change you! ) Foam roll, calf raises, lunges, squats, press ups, and single leg deadlifts. 10 to 20 minutes, depending on how awake I am Gym has been on and off, more on than off from this week, I hope

Can I ask what benefit upper body training like pressups has? I think I saw triceps dips as another one recommended recently.

Also do the leg exercises not tire the legs for next days running?

ooter · 12-11-2017 9:12pm

I do dips, pull ups, squats, deadlifts, push ups, presses a couple of times a week. Fairly light weights, 10/12.5/15 kg dumbbells. Used to do lunges also but found them very harsh on my hamstrings.
Been doing it about 6 months now, definitely feel stronger but can't say it has improved my running, I find it good for injury prevention more than anything else.

kerrylad1 · 12-11-2017 9:20pm

I used to do the gym 2/3 times aweek,before my son was born.2 and half years later,no gym,and I seem to be always carrying a knock.I think strength and conditioning should play a part in ur training,if you have the time.

rooneyjm · 12-11-2017 11:29pm

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Can I ask what benefit upper body training like pressups has? I think I saw triceps dips as another one recommended recently.

Also do the leg exercises not tire the legs for next days running?

If you are doing press ups correctly then they will improve your core strength along with triceps, back and pecs. No one ever went sub 3 because they had killer triceps but it’s the core work that will help. If your core goes you end up like a banana, bent over, stride shortens, game over.
I do some core (plank mostly)and press ups occasionally post run with some basic stretching. I was interested in the position of the S&C session, before run, after. I assume not on the same day before Intervals or tempo work.

El Caballo · 13-11-2017 1:15am

rooneyjm wrote: »

I was interested in the position of the S&C session, before run, after. I assume not on the same day before Intervals or tempo work.

According to David McHenry who was the head strength and conditioning coach for Mo Farah and Rupp to name a few. The ideal for a lifting session is on the same days as workouts like intervals and tempos and after the run. The idea lives by the motto of Hard days hard and easy days easy. If you are doing a strength work on easy days, it interferes with your recovery from the speed workouts so it is better to keep recovery days as full recovery days and intense days as intense days.

That is the optimal of course and not everyone is a full time athlete and this is probably more geared towards heavy lifting than a short few movement exercises but that's the jist of what the top guys are doing these days.

Testosterscone · 13-11-2017 5:06pm

Funny enough I got an email today regarding a core course

Hi Luke,

There is a lot of confusion out there about core work. And a ton of just plain bad information that can actually make core training programs harmful.

That’s why I am excited to announce that Coach Mike Boyle released his comprehensive course, Complete Core.

Mike's is absolutely one of the top trainers in the world and a go-to guy for other top professionals in the training and rehab industries.

Coach Boyle takes you through his latest methods and proven conditioning protocols and breaks down this often times confusing topic. Complete Core dives deep into the training needs of athletes and lays out his blueprint for developing an optimal core training program.

With Complete Core, Mike Boyle addresses...

- When and how to train the core
- The role of the core (and real-world anatomy)
- How breathing is involved and affects the core
- What to avoid
- Developmental progressions and regressions
- Exact exercises to use

If you want to get results and improve performance, you need to do your core work with a purpose.

Grab Complete Core now and save $50

(Website is a bit flashy an attention grabbing but the email was from a reliable source who I would usually pay attention to in regards recommendations)

Might be up some people's alley

Itziger · 13-11-2017 5:44pm

Testosterscone wrote: »

Funny enough I got an email today regarding a core course

(Website is a bit flashy an attention grabbing but the email was from a reliable source who I would usually pay attention to in regards recommendations)

Might be up some people's alley

Very interesting, Luke.

50$ would buy me a nice bottle of red wine though, so I think I'll pass.

davedanon · 13-11-2017 7:39pm

Itziger wrote: »

Very interesting, Luke.

50$ would buy me a nice bottle of red wine though, so I think I'll pass.

Or 2 or 3 bottles of almost-as-good-you'd-hardly-taste-the-difference red wine. Just a thought.

Djoucer · 14-11-2017 5:05pm

Any want to share their 20 min S and C?

Be great to see what people's workout looks like, at home v fitness.

I wouldn't have a clue what to do it the gym. At home, I'd have resistance band and do various lunges/clams etc

rooneyjm · 14-11-2017 7:42pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Any want to share their 20 min S and C?

Be great to see what people's workout looks like, at home v fitness.

I wouldn't have a clue what to do it the gym. At home, I'd have resistance band and do various lunges/clams etc

“The Run Experience” have a load of free basic S&C exercises with explanations of how to perform them. Get them on FB or YouTube. Ultimately they are trying to get you into some sort of plan but the stick to the free stuff

ooter · 14-11-2017 8:46pm

Djoucer wrote: »

Any want to share their 20 min S and C?

Be great to see what people's workout looks like, at home v fitness.

I wouldn't have a clue what to do it the gym. At home, I'd have resistance band and do various lunges/clams etc

Wouldn't have much of a clue myself but I do this twice a week, probably takes about 40 mins.
3 sets of
5 X dumbbell squats
5 X dumbbell deadlifts
5 X pull ups
5 X dips
5 X single leg dumbbell deadlifts
5 X push ups
5 X tricep dips
5 X dumbbell arm rows (each arm)
20 X dumbbell seated twists
5 X dumbbell bench press
5 X standing dumbbell press.
Sometimes I use the same light/medium/heavy weight for all 3 sets, other times I'll do 1 set light, 1 set medium, 1 set heavier.

squinn2912 · 14-11-2017 11:31pm

Spent some time reading through this thread and the sub 2:50 thread and there really is a wealth of knowledge available on here. Well done to all of the super runners who are contributing to these threads and sharing their wisdom and training techniques.
For what it's worth I've decided to go back to my last programme and make some marginal changes. My aim was sub 3 and I ran 2:58 feeling minimal strain until the final three miles. I'll make some changes to try to run harder during the later stages of my medium and longer runs. I was tempted to make wholesale changes to what I've done before but as I consider things I don't believe that would be wise. It worked and my body handled it. I will use some of the advice that you guys gave me to augment my programme.
It will comprise of 3 key sessions - a tempo run at around half marathon pace, an interval session and the long run which will vary in pace. I plan to add some miles to my easier days to bring me from 40-50 mpw to 60-65. My longer term aim is to give the sub 2:50 a go, possibly in DCM 2018, with a spring marathon targeting 2:55. I think that would be 6 seconds per mile improvement.
I intend to select some half marathon races in early spring to gauge progress.
I'll sit down after my spring marathon and assess how the added mileage has worked for me. I can't wait to get going on it!

El Caballo · 07-01-2018 10:43pm

Guess it's around that time of the year;)

I'm personally going to have another throw of the dice this spring in Limerick. I can't help but get drawn back in as there's a big sense of unfinished business with the marathon. It's 18 weeks from today and this time I feel that the sub-3 isn't so much of a pipe dream anymore but a realistic possibility if I put the training in. I'm starting this cycle with about the same mileage that I've had as a peak mileage week from any other Marathon cycle and coming into it with PB fitness as opposed from scratch like I have in the past which is a huge boost.

Training will be relatively simple as I'm in a longer term approach with the focus being on building volume before getting too specific so the basis of my training will mainly be based around a lot of easy mileage with a short threshold or aerobic tempo workout. It's not the ideal for peaking in 18 weeks but is something I feel will pay off in spades in the long term and I believe will still bring me loads in the short term as well as it means I can be more consistent. PB's are:

1500m: 5:01 (June 2015)
5k: 18:34 (Oct 2017)
10k: 39:46 (July 2014)
Half: 1:25:43 (Dec 2017)
Mar: 3:15:29 (Oct 2013)

That PB has stood for too long and one of the lads has said the night out is on him if I break 3 so I can't resist:pac:. As always, the goal first and foremost is to run a good race and something I'll access as the training progresses and hopefully if all goes well, I'll line up in shape get under 3 on the day:)

Any one else having a crack this year and what your plans?

healy1835 · 07-01-2018 10:52pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Any one else having a crack this year and what your plans?

Yeah on the Sub 3 train for Rotterdam. Week 1 of 14 in the bag

I'm fitter, lighter and faster than I've ever been so I'm hoping to pull it off. It's gonna be my first crack at sub 3. Doing Trim 10 Miler and Bohermeen Half as warm up races. Hoping to take a good chunk off my PB's (65:55 & 1:25:52) in those two races if all goes to plan

squinn2912 · 07-01-2018 11:11pm

What is the limerick course like? I want to attempt a sub3 in may/June. Got word newry may not happen so looking for a plan B

OOnegative · 07-01-2018 11:25pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

What is the limerick course like? I want to attempt a sub3 in may/June. Got word newry may not happen so looking for a plan B

I ran Newry in 2010 and remember the 1st Half being very undulating. Not sure if they run the same course but if they do Limerick is flatter but has a bite in the tail from miles 22-25 around the Gaelic Grounds. I thought it was a great marathon last year apart from not getting the time I wanted.

noelearly · 07-01-2018 11:27pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

What is the limerick course like? I want to attempt a sub3 in may/June. Got word newry may not happen so looking for a plan B

Cork??

squinn2912 · 07-01-2018 11:30pm

What's the course like?

El Caballo · 07-01-2018 11:38pm

OOnegative wrote: »

I ran Newry in 2010 and remember the 1st Half being very undulating. Not sure if they run the same course but if they do Limerick is flatter but has a bite in the tail from miles 22-25 around the Gaelic Grounds. I thought it was a great marathon last year apart from not getting the time I wanted.

They've changed the last few miles this year which should make it faster. It won't go through thomond estate anymore but will run in reverse taking out those hills through the houses. Finish will be a 2 mile blast down the ennis road back into the city. Less than a 150m of elevation change for the whole route now which should make it fastish.

Nevermind, the change was made for last year too

OOnegative · 07-01-2018 11:40pm

El Caballo wrote: »

They've changed the last few miles this year which should make it faster. It won't go through thomond estate anymore but will run in reverse taking out those hills through the houses. Finish will be a 2 mile blast down the ennis road back into the city. Less than a 150m of elevation change for the whole route now which should make it fastish.

Year to fecking late!!!

noelearly · 07-01-2018 11:40pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

What's the course like?

Changed it last year for the second half. It was the first marathon I did in 2015. I thought it was on par with Dublin difficulty wise, Itzinger would be better judge than me, he broke 3 hrs there last year.

El Caballo · 07-01-2018 11:43pm

OOnegative wrote: »

Year to fecking late!!!

My bad, they changed it last year so same route as you done. Didn't do any distance last year so didn't realise. Still should be a lot easier than it was before last year.

squinn2912 · 07-01-2018 11:55pm

Thanks for the information guys. Newry has changed and changed back over the last 3 years. Hilly on the way out and then home 14 is flat but very boring and no support

OOnegative · 08-01-2018 1:00am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Thanks for the information guys. Newry has changed and changed back over the last 3 years. Hilly on the way out and then home 14 is flat but very boring and no support

Great support in Limerick to be honest, only thing I could fault it in anyway was we caught the half marathon at one stage and it took a few miles to get through them but we did. Small gripe but overall a great Marathon with plenty of support.

martyboy48 · 08-01-2018 8:04am

OOnegative wrote: »

Great support in Limerick to be honest, only thing I could fault it in anyway was we caught the half marathon at one stage and it took a few miles to get through them but we did. Small gripe but overall a great Marathon with plenty of support.

Was it a wall of them that was a struggle to get through or loose enough where just a bit of weaving required???

kerrylad1 · 08-01-2018 9:07am

squinn2912 wrote: »

What is the limerick course like? I want to attempt a sub3 in may/June. Got word newry may not happen so looking for a plan B

It's was easier previous years but,they changed it up last year,as someone has said,now miles 22 to 25 is tough enough.There is little to no support the first half,but picks up abit in the 2ND half,last 2 miles the crowd builds up,just when you need it.But be weary that just after halfway,you will lose abit of time because in sub 3 crowd,we ran into the back of the half-marathon,which had just started.It took us about 2 miles to weave our way past them.The pacer dermot keairns was class here.Telling us all,not to panic,we will make up anytime we lose here, later on.Which of course he did to a tee.Good marathon,on my doorstep,so if I fail in Manchester,I will give sub 3 a crack here.

OOnegative · 08-01-2018 10:38am

martyboy48 wrote: »

Was it a wall of them that was a struggle to get through or loose enough where just a bit of weaving required???

Wall to get through Marty for a bit that required running on the side of the road the leaders were on but was quick enough to pass.

and still ricky villa · 08-01-2018 12:39pm

El Caballo wrote: »

Any one else having a crack this year and what your plans?

Officially - God, no
Unofficially - Hopeful

I'm going back to Rotterdam and 6 weeks into training using the P+F 55 mile plan (I added a couple of weeks of mileage building at the start). All going well so far with times gradually dropping down.
I'm training using HR only except for specific threshold sessions and I'm enjoying it more than training solely by pace.
I ran Dublin last year using HR only and enjoyed a marathon for the first time in a while. Time wasn't great but that wasn't the aim.

If I can stay healthy and get into the same shape I was in for Rotterdam last year I'm in with a shout of sub 3. If not, I'll take a near 3 hour PB.
Marathon number 20 too!

Itziger · 08-01-2018 1:04pm

and still ricky villa wrote: »

Officially - God, no
Unofficially - Hopeful

I'm going back to Rotterdam and 6 weeks into training using the P+F 55 mile plan (I added a couple of weeks of mileage building at the start). All going well so far with times gradually dropping down.
I'm training using HR only except for specific threshold sessions and I'm enjoying it more than training solely by pace.
I ran Dublin last year using HR only and enjoyed a marathon for the first time in a while. Time wasn't great but that wasn't the aim.

If I can stay healthy and get into the same shape I was in for Rotterdam last year I'm in with a shout of sub 3. If not, I'll take a near 3 hour PB.
Marathon number 20 too!

Wow. (Yes, I know there are people who've done thousands, but just seems like quite a few for a fella gunning for sub 3 - beats me anyway. I think it only took me 11 or 12 goes!)

As for Cork course. I only did last year's one so can't compare to previous and it isn't as flat as say Frankfurt or Valencia, that's for sure. The hills aren't exactly monsters but they're longish drags and the bit around km 33 to 34 that brings you onto Model Farm Rd, that almost did for me. Not sure I'd have held on if it wasn't for the pacer to be honest. If you get a real good block of training in I think that is the key.

and still ricky villa · 08-01-2018 1:34pm

Itziger wrote: »

Wow. (Yes, I know there are people who've done thousands, but just seems like quite a few for a fella gunning for sub 3 - beats me anyway. I think it only took me 11 or 12 goes!)

Ha! I should probably point out this will be about my 5th attempt at training for sub 3. The first 3 or 4 marathons were for the finish, then I travelled a good bit and made a long weekend out of it. It wasn't until I ran my current PB of 3:09 that I thought sub 3 was possible. Up till then it never entered my head that I could do it

gucci · 09-01-2018 10:39am

Best of luck with your Ricky, I am in for London, so gonna give the sub 3 a bash after getting a 3:04 last year in Manchester. I will be happy if I can improve on my time, but I am going to train for a sub 3 and hope the day goes well considering all the variables between my own head and the crowds in London etc.

Gonna be going with a slightly modified version the P&D 55+ (12 weeks) by modified, I mean I will be making it up slightly as I go along with a few morning runs that may be shorter than planned as I fit the training around a young family and work commitments. Currently just doing lots of easy miles and some interval sessions with a few club mates to keep me ticking over untii I start the 12 week plan on 28/01/18.

I am convinced last years marathon time was helped by lots of good quality sleep, so hears hoping I can get some of that too :-)

Amirani · 09-01-2018 3:16pm

I'm aiming for a sub 3 in Dublin this year, or will train for it at a minimum.

Would be a fairly huge reduction from my 3:52 in my first marathon in Dublin last year, but aim to drop about 10kg body mass and increase training a lot (my training last year left a lot to be desired). Based on my current VDOT times for short distance it should be achievable, just need to ramp up the endurance training/miles per week a lot.

noelearly · 09-01-2018 3:21pm

Amirani wrote: »

I'm aiming for a sub 3 in Dublin this year, or will train for it at a minimum.

Would be a fairly huge reduction from my 3:52 in my first marathon in Dublin last year, but aim to drop about 10kg body mass and increase training a lot (my training last year left a lot to be desired). Based on my current VDOT times for short distance it should be achievable, just need to ramp up the endurance training/miles per week a lot.

That's the job, nothing like a man who aims for the stars. Keep us updated and good luck.

Bez Bing · 09-01-2018 3:30pm

Amirani wrote: »

I'm aiming for a sub 3 in Dublin this year, or will train for it at a minimum.

Would be a fairly huge reduction from my 3:52 in my first marathon in Dublin last year, but aim to drop about 10kg body mass and increase training a lot (my training last year left a lot to be desired). Based on my current VDOT times for short distance it should be achievable, just need to ramp up the endurance training/miles per week a lot.

That would be some jump, out of interest what are your shorter distance PBs currently?
Do you have a training plan in mind?

Best of luck with it

The Sub 3 Support Thread

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