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The Sub 3 Support Thread

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Comments

  • #2402
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Would you mind giving me a breakdown of what a typical week would look like?


  • #2403
    bigslice
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭bigslice


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Would you mind giving me a breakdown of what a typical week would look like?

    I haven’t it with me but will update later. I went for 6 days a week most weeks and rule of thumb was never take a day off after a long run.


  • #2404
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    bigslice wrote: »
    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Would you mind giving me a breakdown of what a typical week would look like?

    I haven’t it with me but will update later. I went for 6 days a week most weeks and rule of thumb was never take a day off after a long run.
    Thanks a lot! Looking forward to it


  • #2405
    thomas anderson.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭thomas anderson.


    bigslice wrote: »
    I haven’t it with me but will update later. I went for 6 days a week most weeks and rule of thumb was never take a day off after a long run.

    I also wouldn't mind having a sconce off that


  • #2406
    tomred1N
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tomred1N


    bigslice wrote: »
    For what it’s worth, I stagnated on P&D 55miles plans for round 3.15-3.20 marathons. I found too many of the runs one paced and stepping away from it the main thing I noticed was increased MP miles and harder speed sessions.

    On the sub2.50 block I was finding the longer runs a bit too easy and was finishing like a train. Reviewed this with the coach and he said to make the weekday easier runs a bit faster and increased the week days miles, going into the long run a bit more fatigued. It helped and the effort levels soon went up to finish out the long runs. Definitely stood to me.

    This is fast turning into the Sub 2:50 support thread !!

    I was also stuck around 3:19 => 3:14 =>3:12 with P&D 18/55. Considered 18/70 plan but seemed same just more miles. I also found some runs one paced and worse boring. Like 14 mile MLR. Now with club I could do midweek tempo run. 5 miles easy, 3 X 2M tempo and 2/3 CD. 14 miles with variety done in what seems like no time. I found the book is excellent and if looking to improve off 1st or second marathon its bullet proof. However when you begin to stagnate and moving to mad miles isn't feasible mixing things up worked better for me.
    Also I like to enjoy my sunday morning long run. I hate doing and the thought of doing lots of MP miles in the long run. It wears me down and doesn't seem to add as much physical improvement. So in recent DCM training I didn't run any MP miles with exception of 15 @MP in a race 4 weeks out to see if I was in ball park of what I was attempting. Instead I added a weekly speed session on track. Hard running but quick recovery for next workout and ultimately made MP feel much easier on race day. Train Hard Race Easy I saw somewhere recently. Anyway its horses for courses too but if its a slog its not enjoyment. And if its not enjoyable then ..........


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  • #2407
    Testosterscone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Testosterscone


    tomred1N wrote: »
    This is fast turning into the Sub 2:50 support thread !!

    Could do with a revival ;)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056121735


  • #2408
    tomred1N
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tomred1N


    Testosterscone wrote: »
    Could do with a revival ;)

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056121735


    Good find.

    Thank Christ its only 11 pages long !!

    I asked someone recently if they knew what the difference between cocaine and running endorphins was !! I'd say whatever it is its minimal :eek:


  • #2409
    bigslice
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭bigslice


    Never meant to take it off topic! Apologies :-)

    I suppose my point was similar to what tomred has said re stagnation.

    You need a challenge and variation to keep the mind fresh when the legs and body maybe aren’t. Miles for the sake of it mightn’t help that.

    One of the best bits of advice I got was never go into a session on fresh legs just so you can hit the targets set out. That’s very achievable for most decent runners. The easy miles before that on the back of long runs and other sessions can keep you honest in terms of effort levels. You may not always hit the pace as a result but you’ll benefit from it.


  • #2410
    noelearly
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭noelearly


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Many thanks! The more I read on this thread the more I'm questioning my own training. I think I've been slaughtering myself.
    In two sub3 runs I would have done 6-10 mile tempo runs but the pace would be 6:20-6:30 per mile i.e. 20-30 seconds quicker than goal pace. Then in the speed session either 10 repeats of 800m in 2:50 with 70 seconds recovery or 5-6 mile repeats in 5:50 with 2 mins recovery.
    From your contributions and reading over the plans in Advanced Marathoning it seems as though I'd be much better off running at marathon pace and then interval work at 5k-10k pace but increasing the miles. I couldn't believe how little hard running was in the plans but of course I rarely come close to doing 50 miles per week and that is the upper end of what I'd do.
    Feels like right now it's a leap of faith and try one of those plans or go back to tried and trusted 40-45 miles per week but with faster hard running sessions. Any one able to help me make my decision? I'm managing a niggle right now but want to make a plan to take me to the end of January and then get into a proper marathon programme for a marathon in May.

    Without going into specific paces, the best bit of advise i ever got was from a fella in his 60s who has done multiple 3 hour marathons. Think his best was in the 2.30s. "Your long should be long, as you stay on your feet for a long time, don't go flogging yourself in the long run by doing silly paces" it only messes up your workouts for the week ahead.

    My long runs were done at 8.00 to 8.30 pace for 90% of the time. Not saying it's gospel but it works for me.


  • #2411
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    noelearly wrote: »
    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Many thanks! The more I read on this thread the more I'm questioning my own training. I think I've been slaughtering myself.
    In two sub3 runs I would have done 6-10 mile tempo runs but the pace would be 6:20-6:30 per mile i.e. 20-30 seconds quicker than goal pace. Then in the speed session either 10 repeats of 800m in 2:50 with 70 seconds recovery or 5-6 mile repeats in 5:50 with 2 mins recovery.
    From your contributions and reading over the plans in Advanced Marathoning it seems as though I'd be much better off running at marathon pace and then interval work at 5k-10k pace but increasing the miles. I couldn't believe how little hard running was in the plans but of course I rarely come close to doing 50 miles per week and that is the upper end of what I'd do.
    Feels like right now it's a leap of faith and try one of those plans or go back to tried and trusted 40-45 miles per week but with faster hard running sessions. Any one able to help me make my decision? I'm managing a niggle right now but want to make a plan to take me to the end of January and then get into a proper marathon programme for a marathon in May.

    Without going into specific paces, the best bit of advise i ever got was from a fella in his 60s who has done multiple 3 hour marathons. Think his best was in the 2.30s. "Your long should be long, as you stay on your feet for a long time, don't go flogging yourself in the long run by doing silly paces" it only messes up your workouts for the week ahead.

    My long runs were done at 8.00 to 8.30 pace for 90% of the time. Not saying it's gospel but it works for me.

    I'd have that philosophy as well. I run somewhere around that time too for my long runs. It's the other sessions I'm thinking of now


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  • #2412
    jonnner
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭jonnner


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    I'd have that philosophy as well. I run somewhere around that time too for my long runs. It's the other sessions I'm thinking of now

    P&D (and others I think) state long run pace as starting at 120% of MP and finishing around 110% of MP. So yeah that pace should be fine if aiming for 2:59. Ideally you would finish the run quicker though.
    If you're staying at that pace for the entire run, you're quite a bit off MP and are not teaching the body to burn fuel close to MP. So throwing in MP workouts maybe becomes more important.
    On most long runs I didn't get as quick as 110% either (company wasn't able for it), but I ran a midweek medium-long run quicker, and had MP workouts periodically.
    Just my 2 cent, we're all different!


  • #2413
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    You can't take the long run in isolation from the rest of the week's training when discussing what the pace should be.

    I know one coach who says the long run should always be easy pace, 8 min/miles for sub 3 runners, but he would have the same runners do a hard tempo the day before every week.

    The plan I'm following has the long run finish with a progression this week, but the run is short and the rest of the week has been easy, compared to other weeks when the run was longer and all easy.

    The Hanson plan has a longest run of 16 miles, but more faster work during the week along the way.


  • #2414
    Krusty_Clown
    Registered Users Posts: 19,495 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    noelearly wrote: »
    Without going into specific paces, the best bit of advise i ever got was from a fella in his 60s who has done multiple 3 hour marathons. Think his best was in the 2.30s. "Your long should be long, as you stay on your feet for a long time, don't go flogging yourself in the long run by doing silly paces" it only messes up your workouts for the week ahead.

    My long runs were done at 8.00 to 8.30 pace for 90% of the time. Not saying it's gospel but it works for me.
    I think we have to sub-categorize two types of long run:
    The long easy run - where the goal is primarily endurance, but for some, may have sub-goals like adaptation, running long on tired feet, etc.
    The long run with 'stuff' - Focus is speed endurance, dialing in race pace, simulation, etc.

    In my view, the long easy run is an important part of adaptation, particularly when you are new to marathoning and long runs are a pretty new component of your training. But eventually they have a diminishing return and ultimately as you go through marathon cycles, continuing to do them will result in some level of junk miles. The good news is that it's not hard to adapt them so that they are once again providing benefit. Examples would be:
    Progression run: Start easy, gradually increase the pace, finish at a faster pace (perhaps up to half marathon pace, if you've paced it well)
    Steady long run: MP + 10%, increase to MP + 5%
    Long run finishing with strides with a focus on form
    Long run with no water/nutrition

    Long run with stuff: Like I said, goal is speed-endurance (and some of the above examples would be a nod towards speed-endurance - like the Canova long steady run). Other common examples (usually you progress to a point where you can complete these sessions):
    5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 @MP (Tergat @Boards)
    4 x 3 Miles @MP with 800 steady (Magness)
    18 miles with last 12 @MP (P&D)
    3 x 5 miles with 800 steady (Daniels?)
    15 miles @MP (Daniels - handle with care!)

    Essentially, when you progress to a point in your plan, where you are no longer getting any significant benefit from increasing the distance, or naturally increasing the pace, you've got to question what the value is. Like every run, the long run should have a purpose and you should know what the purpose is, before you head out.

    So for example, I've just started a 21 week marathon plan for Rotterdam, based on Magness marathon template (for high mileage runners (100mpw+). Early long runs (base building period) start at 14 miles and progress over 5-6 weeks to around 20 miles. For these long runs, I'll be happy enough to 'go with the pace' while I adapt to doing long runs again, but after that I'll try to have a specific plan for each long run. Some weeks won't have a long run, in favour of doing a hard session. Well, that's the philosophy anyway. I don't always stick to the plan, and that's usually where the injuries start for me.

    We all feel good about ourselves after doing a long run (my family are sick of hearing about my long runs!), but apart form the feel-good factor, we have to be able to identify a specific benefit. Maybe if you haven't followed a marathon plan for a long time, the benefit is simply to build up endurance again and that's perfectly ok - because it has a specific goal. Hell, maybe like me, you enjoy running in nature, running with pals or just want to get your head right and those reasons are ok too, just don't expect the same level of benefit as having a long run focused on achieving a specific goal.


  • #2415
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    bigslice wrote: »
    One of the best bits of advice I got was never go into a session on fresh legs just so you can hit the targets set out.

    That, on the face of it, contradicts anything I've ever heard. Our club sessions are Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I've had umpteen experiences of being told by faster and more experienced runners that they are too close together, that 48 hours between sessions is the absolute minimum, and there really should be 3 days between sessions. With the same if possible until the long run. The sharp-eyed will notice that that results in an 8, rather than 7, day cycle.

    I include the anomaly only to highlight how we are always trying to square a circle somehow with our training.


  • #2416
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    davedanon wrote: »
    That, on the face of it, contradicts anything I've ever heard. Our club sessions are Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I've had umpteen experiences of being told by faster and more experienced runners that they are too close together, that 48 hours between sessions is the absolute minimum, and there really should be 3 days between sessions. With the same if possible until the long run. The sharp-eyed will notice that that results in an 8, rather than 7, day cycle.

    I include the anomaly only to highlight how we are always trying to square a circle somehow with our training.

    While I normally try to avoid the age card, I do believe that the gaps between sessions are something that may be affected by old age. I would very rarely attempt a second hard effort before the 3rd day. Recently I broke that rule due to travelling and the availability of a group long run at decent pace 2 days after a session. Fortunately I was fine. Perhaps the 20 year olds can do that stuff every week.


  • #2417
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    davedanon wrote: »
    That, on the face of it, contradicts anything I've ever heard. Our club sessions are Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I've had umpteen experiences of being told by faster and more experienced runners that they are too close together, that 48 hours between sessions is the absolute minimum, and there really should be 3 days between sessions. With the same if possible until the long run. The sharp-eyed will notice that that results in an 8, rather than 7, day cycle.

    When I joined Bros Pearse, we had the same Tuesday/Thursday session cycle, but after a while I just stopped going to the Thursday session because I thought it was too close and it was wearing me out.

    We've eventually managed to switch to Tuesday session/Thursday easy/Saturday tempo, which I think works better. But it means attendance on Thursday is not as good, because people don't make the effort to attend an easy run.

    (We also have a group doing the session on Wednesday and easy run on Monday, which helps. Part of the thinking behind the Thursday session was that some people couldn't be there on Tuesdays)
    Itziger wrote: »
    Perhaps the 20 year olds can do that stuff every week.

    The juveniles do have sessions Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday, so shorter recoveries. But they also tend to do shorter sessions - a long warm-up, a proper cooldown, and so less work in between.


  • #2418
    EC1000
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
    McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
    hot buttered scones|19:17|n/a|40:24|1:05:41|1:26:26|3:09:13|Frankfurt 2018
    TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
    FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
    AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
    Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
    Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
    MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
    snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
    EC1000|17:18|N/a|37:38|61:45|1:22:08|3:07:XX|Rotterdam 2018
    rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
    davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:30:30|3:14:18|Berlin 2016
    Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|3:03:28|TBC 2016
    Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
    Tomred1N |18:30|32:10|41:40|1:05:57|1:24:17|2:57:55|DCM 2017
    Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
    Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
    Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
    CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
    Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
    El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
    Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
    ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
    Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
    rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
    Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
    SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
    MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
    FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist

    If this table tells me anything its that I need to work on speed endurance...


  • #2419
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
    McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
    hot buttered scones|19:17|n/a|40:24|1:05:41|1:26:26|3:09:13|Frankfurt 2018
    TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
    FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
    AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
    Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
    Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
    MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
    snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
    EC1000|17:18|N/a|37:38|61:45|1:22:08|3:07:XX|Rotterdam 2018
    rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
    davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:29:18|3:14:18|
    Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|3:03:28|TBC 2016
    Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
    Tomred1N |18:30|32:10|41:40|1:05:57|1:24:17|2:57:55|DCM 2017
    Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
    Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
    Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
    CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
    Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
    El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
    Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
    ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
    Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
    rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
    Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
    SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
    MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
    FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist


  • #2420
    bigslice
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭bigslice


    davedanon wrote: »
    That, on the face of it, contradicts anything I've ever heard. Our club sessions are Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I've had umpteen experiences of being told by faster and more experienced runners that they are too close together, that 48 hours between sessions is the absolute minimum, and there really should be 3 days between sessions. With the same if possible until the long run. The sharp-eyed will notice that that results in an 8, rather than 7, day cycle.

    I include the anomaly only to highlight how we are always trying to square a circle somehow with our training.

    With everything in life, people have vastly different approaches to their training. In my training and others I know, this has worked well for them and it’s specific marathon training. Not sure if your guys are training for shorter stuff where intensity of the sessions might be different.

    I can’t have any complaints!


  • #2421
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    I have to say this thread is really informative and inspiring. Thanks all.

    Can I ask contributors what their thoughts are on age? I see it's been referenced a few times in the posts above. Obviously there's a drop off in capability with age but is it a significant one and can we put some science on it? The reason I ask is that I am doing the best running I've ever done at 38 years old. The reason it's the best is that I just didn't train or run particularly well before. I can see myself making steady improvements in the next few years (sub 3 and beyond), but at the same time I'm pushing 40 now and I guess that has to be counting against me in some way. I'm just not sure how much. Not that I can do anything about it, but curious all the same.


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  • #2422
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    zulutango wrote: »
    Can I ask contributors what their thoughts are on age?

    Earlier this year Krusty ran 2:30 at 45 years old.
    Gary O'Hanlon just ran 2:18 in Dublin marathon at 43.


  • #2423
    Testosterscone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Testosterscone


    zulutango wrote: »
    I have to say this thread is really informative and inspiring. Thanks all.

    Can I ask contributors what their thoughts are on age? I see it's been referenced a few times in the posts above. Obviously there's a drop off in capability with age but is it a significant one and can we put some science on it? The reason I ask is that I am doing the best running I've ever done at 38 years old. The reason it's the best is that I just didn't train or run particularly well before. I can see myself making steady improvements in the next few years (sub 3 and beyond), but at the same time I'm pushing 40 now and I guess that has to be counting against me in some way. I'm just not sure how much. Not that I can do anything about it, but curious all the same.

    Replace chronological age with training age as it's much more relevant. Plenty of my athletes are still getting Pbs at 40,45,50.

    The only thing is as you get older you have to train smarter and recover more efficiently. If memory serves me Krusty was in around that age when he started running and is still smashing it out of the park with us youngsters trying to keep up


  • #2424
    bigslice
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭bigslice


    Was over 40 when I broke sub3. In the prime of your running life!

    Being a bit more on point, I think a lot of people start in their 30’s after maybe years playing other sports or just been busy socially, so they pick it up and push on from there. When you look at age profiles in races, very few marathon runners in say 20-30 bracket, picks up 30-39 and is possibly peaking 40-49 with good numbers above that.

    It’s about knowing your own body and building up sensibly to a go at sub3 imho.


  • #2425
    Testosterscone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Testosterscone


    davedanon wrote: »
    That, on the face of it, contradicts anything I've ever heard. Our club sessions are Tuesdays and Thursdays, but I've had umpteen experiences of being told by faster and more experienced runners that they are too close together, that 48 hours between sessions is the absolute minimum, and there really should be 3 days between sessions. With the same if possible until the long run. The sharp-eyed will notice that that results in an 8, rather than 7, day cycle.

    I include the anomaly only to highlight how we are always trying to square a circle somehow with our training.

    I don't necessarily think that there is a contradiction to be honest not going in on fresh legs could simply mean not coming into a session on an off day.

    Personally I know a lot of marathoners who aim to do 2 sessions a week and as a result stretch them out (many do Wednesday/Saturday with long easy run Sunday for cumulative fatigue) but those sessions would be big marathon specific sessions and as such the recovery needed would be a lot more, others might do 3 sessions a week with more 10k orientated work or more moderate work (shorter tempos / steady runs etc) in which case cumulative fatigue runs through the week.


  • #2426
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    bigslice wrote: »
    Was over 40 when I broke sub3. In the prime of your running life!

    Being a bit more on point, I think a lot of people start in their 30’s after maybe years playing other sports or just been busy socially, so they pick it up and push on from there. When you look at age profiles in races, very few marathon runners in say 20-30 bracket, picks up 30-39 and is possibly peaking 40-49 with good numbers above that.

    It’s about knowing your own body and building up sensibly to a go at sub3 imho.

    Was over 50 when I (eventually) broke sub 3. Is that a Boards record? I was 51 and 11 months. Must update table.


  • #2427
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭Itziger


    davedanon wrote: »
    Name|5k|5m|10k|10m|HM|Mara|Target Race
    McMillan |18:28|30:28|38:22|1:04:07|1:25:32|3:00:00|Ref Times
    hot buttered scones|19:17|n/a|40:24|1:05:41|1:26:26|3:09:13|Frankfurt 2018
    TbL |19:27|31:xx|39:30|1:04:xx|1:25:xx|3:05:xx|TBC 2016
    FBOT|17:42|29:59|38:42|1:00:34|1:26:02|3:00:59|TBC
    AMK|17:38|29:13|37:40|1:02:30|1:27:xx|3:02:22|DCM 2016
    Tomwaits48|19:17|32:00|39:xx|1:05:45|1:28:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
    Duanington|17:35|29:17|36:36|1:01:42|1:23:22|3:03:xx|Berlin 2016
    MrMacPhisto|17:23|29:01|36:42|1:01:55|1:22:53|3:00:56|Valencia 2016
    snailsong|19:06|31:49|39:11|N/A|1:28:20|3:06:52|TBC 2017
    EC1000|17:18|N/a|37:38|61:45|1:22:08|3:07:XX|Rotterdam 2018
    rooneyjm|19:35|N/A|39:20|1:08:xx|1:29:37|3:23:xx|DCM 2016
    davedanon|18:34|31:34|39:51|1:06:21|1:29:18|3:14:18|
    Itziger|17:50|29:52|36:48|N/A|1:22:04|2:59:10|TBC 2018
    Sandwell|17:24|28:57|37:10|0:59:29|1:22:xx|N/A|TBC 2016
    Tomred1N |18:30|32:10|41:40|1:05:57|1:24:17|2:57:55|DCM 2017
    Ainsyjnr |18:32|30:07|36:50|1:02:24|1:24:04|3:01:46|TBC
    Averagejoe123|17:47|30:26|38:41|1:04:45|1:27:xx|3:17:xx|TBC 2017
    Kemboi|18:00|29:50|38:00|1:05:50|1:25:30|3:07:xx|DCM 2016
    CR 7|17:45|30:30|37:21|1:04:50|1:23:25|5:04:xx|TBC 2016
    Run and Jump|19:25|33:29|41:22|1:07:09|1:28:51|3:26:14|TBC 2017
    El Caballo|18:34|31:15|39:46|1:05:xx|1:26:26|3:15:29|TBC 2017
    Bulmers74|18:54|31:46|39:33|1:06:00|1:26:27|3:08:36|TBC 2016
    ger664|19:45|N/A|41:11|1:09:33|1:35:56|3:18:12|TBC 2017/18
    Jahaco|19:22|31:08|39:07|1:04:19|1:26:23|3:03:19|DCM 2016
    rom|17:42|30:29|n/a|1:02:18|1:26:59|2:54:21|London 2017
    Wild Garlic|18:04|31:43|38:23|N/A|1:27:07|3:43:xx|TBC
    SlowTwitch|19:00|31:08|39:31|1:05:09|1:26:00|3:00:22|BetterLongDist
    MediumTwitch|18:40|30:40|39:01|1:04:31|1:26:13|2:59:46|BetterMedDist
    FastTwitcher|18:22|30:16|38:34|1:03:57|1:25:45|2:59:36|BetterShortDist

    2018 target not clear yet. Maybe Cork again as I love that time of year. Maybe Cologne in Autumn.


  • #2428
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    RayCun wrote: »
    Earlier this year Krusty ran 2:30 at 45 years old.
    Gary O'Hanlon just ran 2:18 in Dublin marathon at 43.

    :eek:


  • #2429
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Loving reading all of these contributions. A lot of heat on recovery. I've always trained hard on Tuesdays and Thursdays but then I run my saturday long run slowly with a partner. I pick an odd week when I am feeling good and finish the last 3-4 miles closer to MP and I feel that's enough (to get time on feet).
    I'm still struggling to work out what a good marathon training week should look like. I find I'm usually too sore on a Monday to run hard so I just do a recovery run. Wednesday is the same and usually a day off on Friday. I don't like the thought of facing 20 miles after having done intervals the day before and that's why I do them on a Thursday. It seems that on a seven day week that's the best way to get the most recovery into the legs. Sunday alternates between a day off and some light recovery running.


  • #2430
    RayCun
    Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Loving reading all of these contributions. A lot of heat on recovery. I've always trained hard on Tuesdays and Thursdays but then I run my saturday long run slowly with a partner. I pick an odd week when I am feeling good and finish the last 3-4 miles closer to MP and I feel that's enough (to get time on feet).
    I'm still struggling to work out what a good marathon training week should look like. I find I'm usually too sore on a Monday to run hard so I just do a recovery run. Wednesday is the same and usually a day off on Friday. I don't like the thought of facing 20 miles after having done intervals the day before and that's why I do them on a Thursday. It seems that on a seven day week that's the best way to get the most recovery into the legs. Sunday alternates between a day off and some light recovery running.

    So your week is
    Monday: recovery run
    Tuesday: hard run, intervals?
    Wednesday: recovery run
    Thursday: intervals
    Friday: day off
    Saturday: long slow run, sometimes with a few miles at MP
    Sunday: day off or recovery run

    That's a lot of recovery days and days off. What do you mean by recovery, how does it compare to marathon pace? How slow is the Saturday run?


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  • #2431
    Swashbuckler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    But to put that into context I presume both Krusty and Gary have years upon years of running behind them to build to those times . For the likes of me and zulutango who may have some years of basic running behind us but only started structured training in the last year or so, are the odds against us?

    Edit: great thread by the way


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