Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

awec · 28-12-2017 11:58pm

Realistically Munster is a must win for Kiss. A loss is simply unacceptable and IMO would be a large nail in Kiss’ coffin.

A win vs Leinster would be a bonus but totally unexpected, a defeat wouldn’t be the worst result but it all comes down to the manner of defeat. A hammering and the pressure would really ratchet up.

Honestly if we lose our next two matches I’d say Kiss is a goner. For his sake he needs to target Munster in a big way, and we need to win it convincingly. Another lacklustre performance with Ulster falling over the line won’t cut it.

Utah_Saint · 29-12-2017 12:08am

awec wrote: »

Realistically Munster is a must win for Kiss. A loss is simply unacceptable and IMO would be a large nail in Kiss’ coffin.

A win vs Leinster would be a bonus but totally unexpected, a defeat wouldn’t be the worst result but it all comes down to the manner of defeat. A hammering and the pressure would really ratchet up.

Honestly if we lose our next two matches I’d say Kiss is a goner. For his sake he needs to target Munster in a big way, and we need to win it convincingly. Another lacklustre performance with Ulster falling over the line won’t cut it.

As bad as it sounds, a unconvincing win against Munster and a narrow defeat to leinster would be bad as it buys him more time. I think by comments here, on uafc and bakebook many Ulster fans have moved on and their minds are made up. This isn't based of a bad result out west. It performances last season and every performance this season.

bilston · 29-12-2017 12:50am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

awec wrote: »

Realistically Munster is a must win for Kiss. A loss is simply unacceptable and IMO would be a large nail in Kiss’ coffin.

A win vs Leinster would be a bonus but totally unexpected, a defeat wouldn’t be the worst result but it all comes down to the manner of defeat. A hammering and the pressure would really ratchet up.

Honestly if we lose our next two matches I’d say Kiss is a goner. For his sake he needs to target Munster in a big way, and we need to win it convincingly. Another lacklustre performance with Ulster falling over the line won’t cut it.

As bad as it sounds, a unconvincing win against Munster and a narrow defeat to leinster would be bad as it buys him more time. I think by comments here, on uafc and bakebook many Ulster fans have moved on and their minds are made up. This isn't based of a bad result out west. It performances last season and every performance this season.

The thing I've noticed is that mates and others that I speak to in the real world are now coming round to the idea that Kiss should go. That wasn't really the case until recently. That's more significant than the ramblings of uafc.

MJohnston · 29-12-2017 2:47am

I think it needs to be more than just a simple firing of the Director of Rugby. Logan and the others at the top need to have a significant rethink about the way they want to conduct the actual sports part of their business, because I feel that they're the true rot at the core of the club, and if they don't change, we'll just end up in the same situation in another few months after Kiss is gone.

bilston · 29-12-2017 9:32am

MJohnston wrote: »

I think it needs to be more than just a simple firing of the Director of Rugby. Logan and the others at the top need to have a significant rethink about the way they want to conduct the actual sports part of their business, because I feel that they're the true rot at the core of the club, and if they don't change, we'll just end up in the same situation in another few months after Kiss is gone.

Who decides Logan should go?

Utah_Saint · 29-12-2017 9:39am

bilston wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

I think it needs to be more than just a simple firing of the Director of Rugby. Logan and the others at the top need to have a significant rethink about the way they want to conduct the actual sports part of their business, because I feel that they're the true rot at the core of the club, and if they don't change, we'll just end up in the same situation in another few months after Kiss is gone.

Who decides Logan should go?

He's a bluffer, he's got that job for life. Logan gives a good sound bite with little end product

irishbucsfan · 29-12-2017 10:27am

It’d be the board, whatever they call the professional committee of it in Ulster.

If they were unhappy with him, he would be gone.

Interested Observer · 29-12-2017 11:14am

He's the CEO right? Ulster seem pretty healthy in a commercial sense, he's doing his job just fine surely?

stellenbosch · 29-12-2017 11:53am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Reidy won't be available he's still injured according to the BBC

Bet Jones plays v Munster

bilston · 29-12-2017 11:54am

Interested Observer wrote: »

He's the CEO right? Ulster seem pretty healthy in a commercial sense, he's doing his job just fine surely?

Does he not put in place the structures around the rugby side of operations?

Was it him who decided to appoint Kiss in stages? Is it him who gets changing the definition and responsibilities of each position within the coaching management structure? Is it him who appoints the head coach/director of rugby...whatever it is we're calling the position this time round?

That said you are right, Ulster are doing well off the pitch so for that reason alone he probably is safe. But a bit more focus on the rugby throughout that operation would be welcome.

Just look at the Facebook adverts for Ulster matches. They list the things you can enjoy at a match. The rugby is listed as just one of many things rather than the main focus of the event. That just gives out the impression that the rugby is no more important than anything else when in fact it should be front, middle and centre.

Buer · 29-12-2017 11:58am

bilston wrote: »

Just look at the Facebook adverts for Ulster matches. They list the things you can enjoy at a match. The rugby is listed as just one of many things rather than the main focus of the event. That just gives out the impression that the rugby is no more important than anything else when in fact it should be front, middle and centre.

I wouldn't be drawing too much attention to the rugby if I was him either.

FellasFellas · 29-12-2017 4:09pm

Under-fire Ulster boss Les Kiss has vowed to put things right at the Belfast club following last weekend's 44-16 hammering at Connacht.

Kiss's charges leaked six tries as they sunk to a morale-sapping defeat in Galway but will have to lift themselves for Saturday's inter-provincial home derby clash with Munster.

"There is criticism and that's fine but my job is to not be sucked into that vortex," the 53-year-old Australian told the Belfast Telegraph.

"My job is to stay on this and I believe what we're doing is the right thing and we've got to respond on Monday (against Munster).

"That noise is out there. It's been out there for a while and I understand it," he added of criticism that has come his way over Ulster's already unconvincing performances before Connacht beat them last weekend.

"We always feel pressure. It's not something you escape. It's something you revel in as well, you want to be able to stand up to it and fight against it.

"But ultimately it isn't about me. I haven't read one thing on social media.

"It is about the team and my job along with the coaches is to get it together and crystallise what this means to us and do the job on Monday. That's my focus."

For Munster, Kiss will have South African Jean Deysel back for the first time since October while Charles Piutau, Christian Leali'ifano, Stuart McCloskey and Rob Herring should also return.

But Sean Reidy is out along with Chris Henry, Tommy Bowe and Rory Best.

Cmon and read Boards.ie Les, waters fine!

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-12-2017 11:08pm

Given that no one has arrived in Ulster today I reckon we won't see a new signing announced and arrived before 31 December to start residence before project players become a 5 year thing.

bilston · 29-12-2017 11:31pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Given that no one has arrived in Ulster today I reckon we won't see a new signing announced and arrived before 31 December to start residence before project players become a 5 year thing.

Are their hands not tied by the Jackson/Olding trial? Would signing a new out half now not look bad for Jackson before his trial begins?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-12-2017 2:00am

bilston wrote: »

Are their hands not tied by the Jackson/Olding trial? Would signing a new out half now not look bad for Jackson before his trial begins?

Honestly Ulster need depth at 10. Awec is blue in his face screaming that McPhipps is not an option and we Nelson isn't one and neither is Cooney for obvious reasons.

Depth is needed whether Jackson is found guilty or not.

I suspected someone would be signed as a project before the three year project period finished. I wouldn't have been surprised if the signing could cover 12 or 15 as well.

prawnsambo · 30-12-2017 9:40am

bilston wrote: »

Are their hands not tied by the Jackson/Olding trial? Would signing a new out half now not look bad for Jackson before his trial begins?

Yeah. That's what I would believe. It's the first thing that occurred to me when I heard about Byrne moving.

30-12-2017 10:06am

Let's take a step back here lads, nothing Ulster Rugby do or don't do with regards to signing players should or will have any bearing on the trial.

Fans/media/other players' perceptions of what Ulster do or don't do with regards to signing players shouldn't be a factor in whether or not Ulster need to get further players.

If PJ came back into the squad tomorrow, Ulster would still need another option.
PJ is not coming back into the squad tomorrow, Ulster definitely need another option.

Ulster's depth at 10 is currently
PJ (unavailable), CL (leaving in 3 weeks), McPhillips (new and hopefully ready to learn), Nelson (a full back), Herron (a tea lady).

The only eventuality (ignoring everything to do with PJ as I think you have to) that sees Ulster not signing another 10 this season is if McPhillips takes the reins akin to Sexton after Contempomi's injury, and just pushes and pushes on. He will have to never get injured. Play 80 minutes each week (unless Ulster put teams away early and he can let AN Other have a go).

Even in that scenario, a player pushing himself onwards and developing quickly, Ulster would still be ****ed as any injury or otherwise to him leaves them behind square one!

Ulster need another 10. As far as I can see, they need to either back McPhillips and get him someone who is happy to help him get there, giving him time and some guidance (a Berquist/Shaun Berne). Or they can sign an Irish 10 and play him as starter and get McPhillips to play the understudy role.

If and when and maybe not Jackson returns, it would be far better for Ulster to be in a position where they are spoiled for riches at 10 than otherwise.

30-12-2017 11:13am

[QUOTE=awec;105668675]Realistically Munster is a must win for Kiss. A loss is simply unacceptable and IMO would be a large nail in Kiss’ coffin.

[/QUOTE]

It's not a must win for Munster but it'll be a tough start to his tenure if Van Grann loses his first two inter-pro's on the trot. I expect there will be a reaction but with the likely personnel coming North I can't see them having enough for Ulster at home.

I for one am looking forward to all the column inches about disrespecting the fixture if Munster sends the seconds.

Interested Observer · 30-12-2017 11:43am

bilston wrote: »

Are their hands not tied by the Jackson/Olding trial? Would signing a new out half now not look bad for Jackson before his trial begins?

No matter what happens to Jackson, Ulster need some depth at 10. Jackson is going to miss a full season at a minimum it looks like, if there's some competition there for him if he gets back then he can deal with it. Really don't see how Ulster have their hands tied tbh.

bilston · 30-12-2017 1:20pm

All excellent points fellas, but it can't be that easy a sell to a potential ouy half at the moment given the uncertainty.

Yes we need a back up out half, who is there? Byrne? Why would he swap Leinster for Ulster where he might be first choice, but if Jackson comes back he will be second choice.

A project? Well, there is the 5 year rule now so that's off the table.

A big name? Soponga has been mentioned. He won't come until next year and would be a replacement for Jackson anyway.

Super Rugby starts in a month, getting a decent 10 is bloody difficult.

There are no easy answers.

I suspect we will be stuck with McPhillips and Nelson until the end of the season. I feel sorry for Kiss in this respect.

30-12-2017 1:32pm

bilston wrote: »

All excellent points fellas, but it can't be that easy a sell to a potential ouy half at the moment given the uncertainty.

Yes we need a back up out half, who is there? Byrne? Why would he swap Leinster for Ulster where he might be first choice, but if Jackson comes back he will be second choice.

A project? Well, there is the 5 year rule now so that's off the table.

A big name? Soponga has been mentioned. He won't come until next year and would be a replacement for Jackson anyway.

Super Rugby starts in a month, getting a decent 10 is bloody difficult.

There are no easy answers.

I suspect we will be stuck with McPhillips and Nelson until the end of the season. I feel sorry for Kiss in this respect.

Given that two posters who aren't crackpots have posted with absolute certainty that Ross Byrne is heading north and given the absolutely desperate nature of the requirement there I'm fully expecting that he is heading up.

I'm disgusted to be losing him to be honest, it's a massive coup for Ulster even if some posters don't seem to appreciate it at all.

In the meantime, It's really hard to know what Ulster are going to do at 10. There seems to have been rumours of a signing in the works but nothing announced since those rumours surfaced 3 or so weeks ago.

If ye don't sign a 10 either McPhillips needs to be an incredibly resilient prodigy that makes major progression with game time or the rest of the season is going to be ugly.

bilston · 30-12-2017 1:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

All excellent points fellas, but it can't be that easy a sell to a potential ouy half at the moment given the uncertainty.

Yes we need a back up out half, who is there? Byrne? Why would he swap Leinster for Ulster where he might be first choice, but if Jackson comes back he will be second choice.

A project? Well, there is the 5 year rule now so that's off the table.

A big name? Soponga has been mentioned. He won't come until next year and would be a replacement for Jackson anyway.

Super Rugby starts in a month, getting a decent 10 is bloody difficult.

There are no easy answers.

I suspect we will be stuck with McPhillips and Nelson until the end of the season. I feel sorry for Kiss in this respect.

Given that two posters who aren't crackpots have posted with absolute certainty that Ross Byrne is heading north and given the absolutely desperate nature of the requirement there I'm fully expecting that he is heading up.

I'm disgusted to be losing him to be honest, it's a massive coup for Ulster even if some posters don't seem to appreciate it at all.

In the meantime, It's really hard to know what Ulster are going to do at 10. There seems to have been rumours of a signing in the works but nothing announced since those rumours surfaced 3 or so weeks ago.

If ye don't sign a 10 either McPhillips needs to be an incredibly resilient prodigy that makes major progression with game time or the rest of the season is going to be ugly.

The signing, if it is home I think it is, will be for next season and will be dependent on Jackson as the player wouldn't be coming to be a back up.

I'd very happy with Byrne. I rate him highly. But unless he is going to be first choice at Ulster I don't see why he would come. Again it's a decision that I can't see being confirmed until Jackson's future is known.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 30-12-2017 1:57pm

bilston wrote: »

A project? Well, there is the 5 year rule now so that's off the table.

This topic came up (again says some people) as I mentioned that there will not be a project arriving under the 3 year rule before 31 December.

If a project is later signed under the 5 year rule I would condemn the decision making in Ulster.

30-12-2017 1:58pm

bilston wrote: »

The signing, if it is home I think it is, will be for next season and will be dependent on Jackson as the player wouldn't be coming to be a back up.

I'd very happy with Byrne. I rate him highly. But unless he is going to be first choice at Ulster I don't see why he would come. Again it's a decision that I can't see being confirmed until Jackson's future is known.

Don't want to say anything that will overstep the warnings on this issue but based on what I've heard Jackson won't be back at all and his rugby playing future elsewhere will effectively be decided on his guilt or innocence. He is not expected back at Ulster so take from that what you will.

Scythica · 30-12-2017 2:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The signing, if it is home I think it is, will be for next season and will be dependent on Jackson as the player wouldn't be coming to be a back up.

I'd very happy with Byrne. I rate him highly. But unless he is going to be first choice at Ulster I don't see why he would come. Again it's a decision that I can't see being confirmed until Jackson's future is known.

Don't want to say anything that will overstep the warnings on this issue but based on what I've heard Jackson won't be back at all and his rugby playing future elsewhere will effectively be decided on his guilt or innocence. He is not expected back at Ulster so take from that what you will.

I've heard remarkably similar for what it's worth. it would also dare I say be the most astute move for all parties involved perhaps.

I'd be happy with Byrne coming up. Lima is still a rumour but really I'd love for us to just put all money into a couple of hard as nails forwards who might not necessarily be superstars but give their all.

A full time of Ludiks perhaps

jacothelad · 30-12-2017 10:41pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

This topic came up (again says some people) as I mentioned that there will not be a project arriving under the 3 year rule before 31 December.

If a project is later signed under the 5 year rule I would condemn the decision making in Ulster.

There was never a hope in hell of Ulster signing a competent 10 of any type, I.Q. or N.I.E. under the current circumstances and time of year. There probably aren't any terminally daft 10s that are good enough.

Viewing your last sentence, given the new dispensation really you are saying that Ulster shouldn't ever sign any NIQ player in the future or you would condemn that signing? What about other provinces? Can they do it? A project player is simply someone who some day might turn out to be good enough to play for Ireland. No more and no less. Those at Ulster, usually less...a lot less.

Rugby is circling the drain in Ulster. I have held this position for many years. There was a time for example when the Queens University team, Ballymena, Dungannon, North, Instonians, Bangor, Collegians etc were full of high quality players and internationally capped players. The whole political (small p) and educational and social landscape has changed in N.I. The vast majority of school leavers head to university in G.B. and the teams are starved not just of quality players but any players at all.

The decision making in Ulster is truly shockingly amateurish and the only hope for change is for the IRFU to step in and boot out the various parasitic hangers on of the free loading 'committee' men who have dragged the province's team into the gutter since 2003. They are either terminally stupid or they would rather see Ulster sink without trace than give up their perks. You only have to look at the awful signings over the years. Millions of ££££££ have been wasted on crap players many of whom never actually set foot on the pitch...... or players who arrived injured and never played...... or ......sadly,,,,,, crap players who arrived fit and healthy and did actually make it on to the field to spread shyte every where. Joeli Veitayaki, Clinton Schifkofske are among the better ones and they were just abominable.

As for Ross Byrne, he would a) be a brilliant capture for Ulster

and b) Out of his lid if he did it.

I would imagine that the group psychology of the team have taken so many blows to their confidence over the last few years that it is in tatters. That is certainly how the performances resonate with me. I watch previously reasonably competent guys playing with the handling skills Abu Hamza. I see game plans unravelling like a jumper knitted from candy floss by a one legged Labrador on valium.

Players aren't stupid. They read newspapers. They use social media. They also know when a coach is spreading manure several feet deep about his game plans and the outcomes of his plans.

Add on the enforced removal of Pienaar, the injuries to Coetzee, Payne and others, the downward spiral of Henry, Bowe, Trimble and then the current situation with the 'two young gentlemen' and the insane selections by a loony toon coach it's not a mystery that things have slithered downwards to where we are.

There are of course many other cracks in the fabric here. Not least the apparent inability of ex-pros to recognise talent when they see it.

The Lost Sheep · 30-12-2017 11:09pm

jacothelad wrote: »

There was never a hope in hell of Ulster signing a competent 10 of any type, I.Q. or N.I.E. under the current circumstances and time of year. There probably aren't any terminally daft 10s that are good enough.

Viewing your last sentence, given the new dispensation really you are saying that Ulster shouldn't ever sign any NIQ player in the future or you would condemn that signing? What about other provinces? Can they do it? A project player is simply someone who some day might turn out to be good enough to play for Ireland. No more and no less. Those at Ulster, usually less...a lot less.

Rugby is circling the drain in Ulster. I have held this position for many years. There was a time for example when the Queens University team, Ballymena, Dungannon, North, Instonians, Bangor, Collegians etc were full of high quality players and internationally capped players. The whole political (small p) and educational and social landscape has changed in N.I. The vast majority of school leavers head to university in G.B. and the teams are starved not just of quality players but any players at all.

The decision making in Ulster is truly shockingly amateurish and the only hope for change is for the IRFU to step in and boot out the various parasitic hangers on of the free loading 'committee' men who have dragged the province's team into the gutter since 2003. They are either terminally stupid or they would rather see Ulster sink without trace than give up their perks. You only have to look at the awful signings over the years. Millions of ££££££ have been wasted on crap players many of whom never actually set foot on the pitch...... or players who arrived injured and never played...... or ......sadly,,,,,, crap players who arrived fit and healthy and did actually make it on to the field to spread shyte every where. Joeli Veitayaki, Clinton Schifkofske are among the better ones and they were just abominable.

As for Ross Byrne, he would a) be a brilliant capture for Ulster

and b) Out of his lid if he did it.

I would imagine that the group psychology of the team have taken so many blows to their confidence over the last few years that it is in tatters. That is certainly how the performances resonate with me. I watch previously reasonably competent guys playing with the handling skills Abu Hamza. I see game plans unravelling like a jumper knitted from candy floss by a one legged Labrador on valium.

Players aren't stupid. They read newspapers. They use social media. They also know when a coach is spreading manure several feet deep about his game plans and the outcomes of his plans.

Add on the enforced removal of Pienaar, the injuries to Coetzee, Payne and others, the downward spiral of Henry, Bowe, Trimble and then the current situation with the 'two young gentlemen' and the insane selections by a loony toon coach it's not a mystery that things have slithered downwards to where we are.

There are of course many other cracks in the fabric here. Not least the apparent inability of ex-pros to recognise talent when they see it.

Yes there was a time when those clubs were full of quality players but thats a long long time ago. Ulster clubs have never really done much at a high level in club rugby. Several of those clubs as you know have merged etc. Yes plenty of school leavers in NI do go to the UK but how then are so many clubs in Ulster still fielding 4/5/6 sides in many cases??

sydthebeat · 30-12-2017 11:16pm

I still reckon someone like Lionel cronje would be a good signing for the rest of the season

mfceiling · 30-12-2017 11:20pm

jacothelad wrote: »

I see game plans unravelling like a jumper knitted from candy floss by a one legged Labrador on valium.

I'm going to throw it out here lads and say that this might not only be the greatest line posted in the rugby forum, but perhaps on any forum in the entire history of boards.

bilston · 30-12-2017 11:20pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

I still reckon someone like Lionel cronje would be a good signing for the rest of the season

Never heard of him, but it's a good name.

Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

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