Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread II

thomond2006

Who is saying Ulster shouldn't sign a short term NIQ?

Sinbad_NI

Right now I'd take anyone decent from anywhere.

bilston

Sinbad_NI wrote: »

Right now I'd take anyone decent from anywhere.

Yeah I 100% agree with this. I don't get why we wouldn't take someone to get us through to the end of the season.

Not taking a player because it might help someone else if we do seems a bit odd. So what if it helps someone else. The important thing is whether it helps us. Leinster are more than capable of developing Joey Carbery without our help anyway!

mfceiling

bilston wrote: »

Yeah I 100% agree with this. I don't get why we wouldn't take someone to get us through to the end of the season.

Not taking a player because it might help someone else if we do seems a bit odd. So what if it helps someone else. The important thing is whether it helps us. Leinster are more than capable of developing Joey Carbery without our help anyway!

Thing is if Carberry turns up late for training he could find himself 4th or 5th in line for 10 at Leinster by the time he gets there.

Tigerandahalf

I think Joey Carberry or JJ Hanrahan would be bad signings. Both are very talented but neither can pull the strings and control a game, something Ulster really need at the moment.

I think Johnny McPhilips is worth a try. He has a great boot on him when I saw him for the u20s and was a very reliable goalkicker. Granted I haven't seen him since but why has he not been given an opportunity before now.

Carberry will never be a 10 going on what he has shown thus far, 15 looks his best position as he is a brilliant 2nd phase receiver in open play. His goalkicking for a 10 would leave his team at a disadvantage. His natural instinct is to take on players, great to watch but the game here in the NH requires different attributes from a 10 and he doesn't have that at the moment.

JJ has been around a while now but injuries are always a problem and his defence has been a big issue. It would be good for him to just stay injury free so we could see him more.

awec

I don't think McPhillips is of the required standard. Don't think he'll ever have a pro career at pro14 level.

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

I don't think McPhillips is of the required standard. Don't think he'll ever have a pro career at pro14 level.

Bit early to be writing off a 20 year old who hasn't even made his debut yet?

Buer

Moving to Ulster short term would be bad for Carbery's development so the helping Leinster theory holds no water.

Also I don't think anyone is against a signing from elsewhere short term. The only thing I'd be against is signing a big name on big money. It would be a waste. Get someone serviceable from Japan who can do a job and will actually add something.

durthacht

awec wrote: »

I don't think McPhillips is of the required standard. Don't think he'll ever have a pro career at pro14 level.

Interesting that O'Driscoll said on Off The Ball this week that he never thought Sexton would be as good as he has become. I'm not certainly not comparing Sexton and McPhillips, and I was underwhelmed by McPhillips at u-20 level, but I guess we never know how people will develop.

Utah_Saint

durthacht wrote: »

awec wrote: »

I don't think McPhillips is of the required standard. Don't think he'll ever have a pro career at pro14 level.

Interesting that O'Driscoll said on Off The Ball this week that he never thought Sexton would be as good as he has become. I'm not certainly not comparing Sexton and McPhillips, and I was underwhelmed by McPhillips at u-20 level, but I guess we never know how people will develop.

I agree, Jackson looked more impressive and was capped sooner than Sexton.

bilston

durthacht wrote: »

awec wrote: »

I don't think McPhillips is of the required standard. Don't think he'll ever have a pro career at pro14 level.

Interesting that O'Driscoll said on Off The Ball this week that he never thought Sexton would be as good as he has become. I'm not certainly not comparing Sexton and McPhillips, and I was underwhelmed by McPhillips at u-20 level, but I guess we never know how people will develop.

Players can adapt to a higher level in ways you'd never expect.

While I understand and probably even share awec's opinion, I'd also say let's see the lad get a chance first before coming to a final conclusion. And even at that he'd probably need 3 or 4 goes before you could say one way or the other.

bilston

Utah_Saint wrote: »

durthacht wrote: »

awec wrote: »

I don't think McPhillips is of the required standard. Don't think he'll ever have a pro career at pro14 level.

Interesting that O'Driscoll said on Off The Ball this week that he never thought Sexton would be as good as he has become. I'm not certainly not comparing Sexton and McPhillips, and I was underwhelmed by McPhillips at u-20 level, but I guess we never know how people will develop.

I agree, Jackson looked more impressive and was capped sooner than Sexton.

The first time I saw Sexton play I believe was for the Irish U21s (as it was then) against Wales, and James Hook was the Welsh 10. I remember thinking afterwards I'd just seen a world class 10 in the making...and it wasn't Sexton...

Bazzo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think Johnny McPhilips is worth a try. He has a great boot on him when I saw him for the u20s and was a very reliable goalkicker. Granted I haven't seen him since but why has he not been given an opportunity before now.

I could be completely wrong but my memory of McPhillips from the u20s was that he was a flaky kicker at best.

Tigerandahalf

Bazzo wrote: »

I could be completely wrong but my memory of McPhillips from the u20s was that he was a flaky kicker at best.

My vague memory was that he replaced a flaky kicker in Munster's Johnston and was very good kicking out of hand with great length on his kicks. His goal kicking style also looked very good.

MJohnston

Cooney seems to be a good enough kicker that maybe we don't need to worry about 10 being able to.

Utah_Saint

MJohnston wrote: »

Cooney seems to be a good enough kicker that maybe we don't need to worry about 10 being able to.

Stop trying to be positive, we only want doom and gloom here ;-)

Sinbad_NI

Utah_Saint wrote:

Stop trying to be positive, we only want doom and gloom here ;-)

Turn on BBC2. That should sort you right out :-(

bilston

Right so I understand why CL wasn't picked. We need to look at options. And before tonight Nelson was next in line. After tonight McPhillips should get the next start where CL doesn't play.

Piutau is injured, fair enough...

But why didn't AOC and Treadwell start? Why didn't McCloskey start at 12 with Cave in his proper position at 13 allowing Ludik to play 15 with Stockdale and Gilroy winging it.

Seriously it was a f*****g stupid selection. We don't have a game for another f*****g 9 days so no one needed rested.

What a croc of s***.

How many times is Kiss going to f*** around with his selections? It's a joke. It's like we are deliberately tying one hand behind our backs with picks like that.

Scythica

FOLK.

I wonder how much of the selections is down to LK or have people asked to be rested etc.

thomond2006

We'll know a lot more after the Munster game. Munster are likely to send a second string team and it will be a must win for Ulster. Edinburgh's win over Glasgow puts the pressure on in Conference B.

Buer

Kiss interview was fascinating. Poor bloke looked like he was on verge of breaking down. Voice unsteady, fidgeting with jacket zipper throughout and facial ticks. I reckon he thinks his job is about to go.

I reckoned his job was safe unless the next month went badly and it has started in awful fashion. He's got one foot out the door.

I don't think he's the right bloke for the job but it's not nice to see how it's clearly affecting him.

bilston

Scythica wrote: »

FOLK.

I wonder how much of the selections is down to LK or have people asked to be rested etc.

I doubt AOC, Treadwell and McCloskey would need rested by the IRFU.

I suppose we won't see Henderson or Stockdale against Munster now.

Scythica

Buer wrote: »

Kiss interview was fascinating. Poor bloke  looked like he was on verge of breaking down. Voice unsteady, fidgeting with jacket zipper throughout and facial ticks. I reckon he thinks his job is about to go.

I reckoned his job was safe unless the next month went badly and it has started in awful fashion.  He's got one foot out the door.

I don't think he's the right bloke for the job but it's not nice to see how it's clearly affecting him.

The thing is, I like Kiss, but I don't think he's 'Head' material, for exactly the reason above. There's no way I can see a managed move where he becomes just a defence coach, so I don't see how his position is sustainable in the long term.

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Kiss interview was fascinating. Poor bloke looked like he was on verge of breaking down. Voice unsteady, fidgeting with jacket zipper throughout and facial ticks. I reckon he thinks his job is about to go.

I reckoned his job was safe unless the next month went badly and it has started in awful fashion. He's got one foot out the door.

I don't think he's the right bloke for the job but it's not nice to see how it's clearly affecting him.

Yeah...well I haven't seen the interview...and despite my little rant above I don't want to see anyone lose their job...these guys aren't on megabucks. They aren't PL managers on millions a year. If they lose their job it puts a genuine strain on them. But I just wish he'd learn to stop messing around with his selections so much.

He is going to be here until the end of the season no matter what. I think he needs to be replaced. He will probably get a pay off as I'd say he still has a year or two left on his contract and he will probably be told in advance that his services are not required therefore giving him a chance to set himself up elsewhere so it wouldn't be all bad for him, other than professional pride obviously...

Plus I'm sure he earns a fair bit more than I do so I don't feel too sorry for him!

awec

I feel sorry for Kiss, but then I watch Ulster each weekend and my empathy is replaced with unrelenting rage.

molloyjh

Scythica wrote: »

FOLK.

I wonder how much of the selections is down to LK or have people asked to be rested etc.

He mentioned that they have to rotate, with a very real emphasis on the “have to”. Sounded like it was outside his control. And he also mentioned something about players being sick.

It was a horrible interview to watch. He’s a nervous enough guy on camera anyway, but you could see how much he felt the spotlight was on him. Very uncomfortable to see.

I feel for him in a lot of ways. The playing squad simply isn’t good enough. But as others have wondered here, is he the guy to fix it? It doesn’t look like it really. But There are precious few coaches who could have the level of impact required. And even the best could be very easily impeded by the organisational culture as a whole. Ulster need a Cheika type character, but they also need a board and a set-up that is prepared to run with a Cheika type. Otherwise the coach is swimming against the tide.

awec

molloyjh wrote: »

He mentioned that they have to rotate, with a very real emphasis on the “have to”. Sounded like it was outside his control. And he also mentioned something about players being sick.

It was a horrible interview to watch. He’s a nervous enough guy on camera anyway, but you could see how much he felt the spotlight was on him. Very uncomfortable to see.

I feel for him in a lot of ways. The playing squad simply isn’t good enough. But as others have wondered here, is he the guy to fix it? It doesn’t look like it really. But There are precious few coaches who could have the level of impact required. And even the best could be very easily impeded by the organisational culture as a whole. Ulster need a Cheika type character, but they also need a board and a set-up that is prepared to run with a Cheika type. Otherwise the coach is swimming against the tide.

Spot on.

awec

On a serious note I’m a human being so I feel sorry for Kiss on a human level. It’s not nice to see someone under such huge pressure. But from a rugby point of view it looks like he’s just not cutting it.

thomond2006

While the pack is a mess right now, I am intrigued to see where Ulster go in the back three. Piutau's departure frees up a lot of funds. I assume Trimble and Bowe are on national contracts so if they leave/retire it probably makes little difference to Ulster's purchasing power? Stockdale is a star in the making (maybe leave him on the wing?!) but Ulster could do with another name (Irish eligible or otherwise) to compete with Gilroy etc.

jacothelad

I just don't understand how a 'coach' fails to realise repeatedly that players need to play together in order to gain an on-field compatibility. BOD and Darcy didn't just fall into their relationship. It was built up by familiarity. I doubt that the Ulster back line has ever been the same from one game to the next. Nor is it feasible to turn a blind eye to his repeated selections of players out of position when there is no need for it at all.

Nelson is a 15 or a wing. He isn't in the same county as a pro 10. He is the Norwegian Blue of the 10 world. He is crap at 10, just a ball shoveller. Willing but unable. McPhillips may be untested but when is the best time to do this. Herron isn't great but he is a better at 10 than Nelson. One of these two should have been at 10. BUT...Why was Lealiifano not playing. He will be gone in 4 weeks. Play the fecker.

Ludik is a 15 - and a better one than Nelson by a long margin. He should have been at 15

Stockdale is a wing, not a 15 - or at least not one who has played there for a long time.

Cave is a 13 and a very accomplished one as well as Ulster's 2nd highest scorer after Bowe. Wasted at 12. McCloskey sits at home scratching his hoop instead of playing.

Trimble was a fine player for Ulster and Ireland over more than 10 years but he is now done. Ditto Bowe. Lyttle looked more purposeful and skilled even if he doesn't have the physicality to match his speed.

Paul Marshall is even more awful than in previous seasons. He has learnt nothing in 12 years as a pro. Shanahan is better. Cairns is better.

The shining light in this mess is Cooney.

A back line of 15. Ludik. 14. Lyttle. 13 Cave. 12 McCloskey. 11. Gilroy 10. Lealiifane (McPhillips / Herron.) 9. Cooney at least would have had players in their best positions.

Forwards are shyte. Most are not anywhere near good enough. Diack has spent 10 years being ineffective. Clive Ross is a willing but talentless guy. The props are crud - or if not they haven't the wit to think about what they are doing before they do it.

The team tonight looked as if it would lose a fight with a pack of Brownies. Henderson and Timoney apart.

I suspect that the squad is demoralised by what they see going on around them from a floundering coach and all the while knowing there is nothing they can do about his plans. Kiss was a defensive coach. WEll you could drive a coach and horses through the one he has organised at Ulster.