Ryanair Pilots put it up to O'Leary

keith_sixteen · 13-12-2017 4:45pm

I'd hate to live in a world where zero hour contracts are normal and where everyone views each other as nothing other than a commodity to be bought or sold. Sadly, this is the way we are going and the divisions in our society are increasing.

Adamocovic · 13-12-2017 4:50pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

If you don't pull Catherine Zeta Jones you can't sue Ryanair!!

Actually now this whole strike thing sounds great.

Every returning Irish man and woman will be accompanied by their Catherine Zeta Jones or Tom Hanks equivalent!

737max · 13-12-2017 4:55pm

keith_sixteen wrote: »

I'd hate to live in a world where zero hour contracts are normal and where everyone views each other as nothing other than a commodity to be bought or sold. Sadly, this is the way we are going and the divisions in our society are increasing.

It benefits Ryanair not one jot to have pilots working zero hours. Those pilots are in the air as much as is legally allowed and when in the air they are being well paid.
Emotive pleas like yours will only deliver the general populace in to an ambush where the General Public will be the victims of airline strikes by beligerent Unions every Xmas, Easter and bank holiday weekend.

PeterParker957 · 13-12-2017 4:57pm

keith_sixteen wrote: »

I'd hate to live in a world where zero hour contracts are normal and where everyone views each other as nothing other than a commodity to be bought or sold. Sadly, this is the way we are going and the divisions in our society are increasing.

Well don't worry, because outside of the tiny mind of a "Can Pay Refuse To Pay" TD that will never happen.

keith_sixteen · 13-12-2017 5:04pm

737max wrote: »

It benefits Ryanair not one jot to have pilots working zero hours. Those pilots are in the air as much as is legally allowed and when in the air they are being well paid.
Emotive pleas like yours will only deliver the general populace in to an ambush where the General Public will be the victims of airline strikes by beligerent Unions every Xmas, Easter and bank holiday weekend.

You are so woefully misinformed on this topic.

If if it is of no benefit to have pilots working zero hours, why aren't they given contracts that reflect this?

Imagine if Ryanair said to Boeing, you have to cover the cost of the Ryanair livery on our craft and we will only pay you for aircraft when the plane is flying? They would be laughed out the gate.

Honest to god, you'd swear the way people were going on that this was some sort of Luas or DART strike. This is completely different in many ways.

PeterParker957 · 13-12-2017 5:06pm

keith_sixteen wrote: »

You are so woefully misinformed on this topic.

If if it is of no benefit to have pilots working zero hours, why aren't they given contracts that reflect this?

Imagine if Ryanair said to Boeing, you have to cover the cost of the Ryanair livery on our craft and we will only pay you for aircraft when the plane is flying? They would be laughed out the gate.

Honest to god, you'd swear the way people were going on that this was some sort of Luas or DART strike. This is completely different in many ways.

Yes, there are no other options and I doubt British Airways will honour my Ryanair ticket.

737max · 13-12-2017 5:07pm

@Keith Sixteen; You are playing semantics.
I said "It benefits Ryanair not one jot to have pilots working zero hours".
Pilots are flying for Ryanair because they know for a fact that they'll get as many hours as they are legally allowed.

This is an example of a thread where those with agendas wish to win popular opinion while skirting over the facts.

737max · 13-12-2017 5:10pm

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Honest to god, you'd swear the way people were going on that this was some sort of Luas or DART strike. This is completely different in many ways.

Oh so right. the alternative to Luas and Dart is another form of readily available transport such as Taxi, feet, personal car, bike? the alternative to a general aviation strike closing off Ireland to the rest of the world is? Swim? Slow boat?

end of the road · 13-12-2017 5:11pm

737max wrote: »

I understand that you and reality are not close bedfellows but for the other people in the audience; If the Union controls 75% of all the flights coming in to and out of the ISLAND then the Union can(and most definitely will) lock down the country when and as it suits them to do so.

the risk of both companies being out on strike exists as much now as it would if a union was present in both of them. it's not a high risk.

BizzyC wrote: »

The Pilots could strike any other weekend in the year and cause massive disruption that would get their point across, but instead they've decided to do it at Xmas and hold the public to ransom at an important time of the year.
I'm all for people getting better working conditions, but as soon as you intentionally target the general public with your plan you lose any support/empathy I had for the situation.

striking near christmas will get their point across much more. you strike when it brings the greatist impact. that is how this works. the public aren't being targeted, the company is . the public won't be able to fly with ryanair is all.

737max wrote: »

On an Island a distance away from everywhere Aviation is critical infrastructure.
It was effectively a public service and long after most other nations were flying everywhere Ireland's emigrants were still catching the mailboat to Holyhead and returning home only for funerals as they couldn't afford to pay Aer Lingus fares.

if it was the only form of transport, and ryanair the only airline, then it would be almost critical infrastructure. the only actual critical infrastructure is that which supports the emergency services.

737max wrote: »

Emotive pleas like yours will only deliver the general populace in to an ambush where the General Public will be the victims of airline strikes by beligerent Unions every Xmas, Easter and bank holiday weekend.

the General Public won't be the victims of airline strikes by non-beligerent, but looking after terms and conditions of the paying members Unions every Xmas, Easter and bank holiday weekend. this is scaremongering nonsense.

737max wrote: »

the alternative to a general aviation strike closing off Ireland to the rest of the world is? Swim? Slow boat?

other airlines and the boat yes . ireland would not be cut off.

737max · 13-12-2017 5:13pm

end of the road wrote: »

the General Public won't be the victims of airline strikes by non-beligerent, but looking after terms and conditions of the paying members Unions every Xmas, Easter and bank holiday weekend. this is scaremongering nonsense.

HELLO!!!! Earth to End of the Road.
Strike is on 20th December, not 20th January or 20th February.

737max · 13-12-2017 5:16pm

end of the road wrote: »

other airlines and the boat yes . ireland would not be cut off.

Which other airlines are going to bridge the gap when it is uneconomic to run the an under-utilized service in parallel to Union controlled Aer Lingus and Ryanair throughout the rest of the year when the Union allows the planes to fly.

Stephen15 · 13-12-2017 5:25pm

My one gripe about Ryanair is the lack of actual competition they have in this country no Wizz Air or Easyjet here in Ireland. There is currently no proper budget airline competing with them. Aer Lingus has gone cheaper since they've come in but still not a proper budget airline.

end of the road · 13-12-2017 5:29pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

My one gripe about Ryanair is the lack of actual competition they have in this country no Wizz Air or Easyjet here in Ireland. There is currently no proper budget airline competing with them. Aer Lingus has gone cheaper since they've come in but still not a proper budget airline.

i am surprised myself that easy jet or other similar airlines haven't come in . maybe they will yet?

BizzyC · 13-12-2017 5:33pm

end of the road wrote: »

other airlines and the boat yes . ireland would not be cut off.

Are you serious?
People have bought tickets with Ryanair, this isn't a bus people rock up to and see if they can get on, they are committed to that mode of transportation at a specific date and time.
The alternative you're offering is for people to undergo a last minute scramble to spend more money to use an alternative airline.
This strike will strand people in the run up to Christmas end of discussion. Even if they get a refund, that wont happen for several weeks.
You can try and be as pedantic as you'd like, yes boats can still travel, but for the people who were booked on cancelled flights they face the prospect of not travelling for Christmas or paying last minute fees for travel at the most expensive time of the year. That is not Ryanair's fault, its the fault of the pilots who decided to make an example of those people by deliberately timing their strike in a way that will upset as many people as possible.

keith_sixteen · 13-12-2017 5:34pm

Anyone who booked with Ryanair this Xmas, given everything that went on this year, only have themselves to blame.

end of the road · 13-12-2017 5:37pm

737max wrote: »

HELLO!!!! Earth to End of the Road.
Strike is on 20th December, not 20th January or 20th February.

and? the statement you made was scaremongering nonsense.

737max wrote: »

Which other airlines are going to bridge the gap when it is uneconomic to run the an under-utilized service in parallel to Union controlled Aer Lingus and Ryanair throughout the rest of the year when the Union allows the planes to fly.

the unions don't allow or disallow anything. if their members vote for strike action then the planes can't fly, but that's because the staff aren't there to fly them, not because someone has decided not to allow them to fly.

BizzyC wrote: »

Are you serious?
People have bought tickets with Ryanair, this isn't a bus people rock up to and see if they can get on, they are committed to that mode of transportation at a specific date and time.
The alternative you're offering is for people to undergo a last minute scramble to spend more money to use an alternative airline.
This strike will strand people in the run up to Christmas end of discussion. Even if they get a refund, that wont happen for several weeks.
You can try and be as pedantic as you'd like, yes boats can still travel, but for the people who were booked on cancelled flights they face the prospect of not travelling for Christmas or paying last minute fees for travel at the most expensive time of the year. That is not Ryanair's fault, its the fault of the pilots who decided to make an example of those people by deliberately timing their strike in a way that will upset as many people as possible.

people do have to spend money to use other airlines from time to time for whatever reason. it's not something that is unheard of. the fact is, people do have alternative methods of transport should it be viable for them to use them.

PeterParker957 · 13-12-2017 5:52pm

end of the road wrote: »

737max wrote: »

HELLO!!!! Earth to End of the Road.
Strike is on 20th December, not 20th January or 20th February.

and? the statement you made was scaremongering nonsense.

737max wrote: »

Which other airlines are going to bridge the gap when it is uneconomic to run the an under-utilized service in parallel to Union controlled Aer Lingus and Ryanair throughout the rest of the year when the Union allows the planes to fly.

the unions don't allow or disallow anything. if their members vote for strike action then the planes can't fly, but that's because the staff aren't there to fly them, not because someone has decided not to allow them to fly.

BizzyC wrote: »

Are you serious?
People have bought tickets with Ryanair, this isn't a bus people rock up to and see if they can get on, they are committed to that mode of transportation at a specific date and time.
The alternative you're offering is for people to undergo a last minute scramble to spend more money to use an alternative airline.
This strike will strand people in the run up to Christmas end of discussion. Even if they get a refund, that wont happen for several weeks.
You can try and be as pedantic as you'd like, yes boats can still travel, but for the people who were booked on cancelled flights they face the prospect of not travelling for Christmas or paying last minute fees for travel at the most expensive time of the year. That is not Ryanair's fault, its the fault of the pilots who decided to make an example of those people by deliberately timing their strike in a way that will upset as many people as possible.

people do have to spend money to use other airlines from time to time for whatever reason. it's not something that is unheard of. the fact is, people do have alternative methods of transport should it be viable for them to use them.

I despair. I really do. There's no point trying to debate

CosmicJay · 13-12-2017 5:53pm

end of the road wrote: »

that's not a valid reason to back mol, as that service will still be availible regardless of what happens. mol has no valid argument here. it was the founders of ryanair who ultimately brought cheap travel, mol just built on it. the founders deserve the credit for taking the risk all those years ago. workers rights and good terms and conditions come over your "right" to cheap travel (you actually don't have a right to cheap flights funnily enough)
if unions do come in to ryanair, they will turn it into a premium employer, which will be loved by passengers and staff. cheap flights will continue, and the workers will have fair terms and conditions. nothing but a win win for everybody (bar mol and his few fans)

I don't think you are the arbiter of what is and isnt a valid reason to back Michael O'Leary. I'm not going to skip to your tune simply because you say so.

I've seen some of your posts in other threads relating to Ryanair and I think, you may have a chip on your shoulder about Michael.

Its perfectly understandable as he does come across as quite insufferable 99% of the time, but I dont believe that it is any reason to completely ignore his massive contribution to our modern airline culture.

Ryanair has typically been at the forefront of the budget airline surge, he wouldnt still be CEO over 20 years down the line if he did nothing. Michael O'Leary has been at the wheel of a company which has given our modern society a wonderful ability to fly on da cheap.

Yeah, workers rights morally do come before my right to cheap travel, so does all of the workers in third world countries which make the clothes you wear on your back. Do 99% of us really care when it comes down to it.

No.

I want my cheap flights to stay cheap, I'll moan about anyone who tries to change it.

unions taking hold of ryanair will turn it into a premium airline.

Just like they did Aer Lingus?

:D:D:D:D funny joke.

kona · 13-12-2017 5:58pm

737max wrote: »

No unqualfied personnel will be allowed fly Ryanair planes. This is scaremongering for the ignorant.

Big difference between a newly qualified pilot and a pilot with decades of experience.

737max · 13-12-2017 6:04pm

kona wrote: »

Big difference between a newly qualified pilot and a pilot with decades of experience.

A qualified pilot is a qualified pilot. A captain is a captain. They are adjudged to be competent to fly a plane. Are you proposing a pay scale based entirely on time served rather than something more meritocratic?

kona · 13-12-2017 6:06pm

737max wrote: »

A qualified pilot is a qualified pilot. A captain is a captain. They are adjudged to be competent to fly a plane. Are you proposing a pay scale based entirely on time served rather than something more meritocratic?

Eh there already is, its called payscales. Are you arguing from a safety persepective that a pilot with 20 years experience would be on the same level as one with 6months?

keith_sixteen · 13-12-2017 6:12pm

737max wrote: »

A qualified pilot is a qualified pilot. A captain is a captain. They are adjudged to be competent to fly a plane. Are you proposing a pay scale based entirely on time served rather than something more meritocratic?

Wow. For all your shouting about facts and this is the type of nonsense you spew.

end of the road · 13-12-2017 6:50pm

CosmicJay wrote: »

I don't think you are the arbiter of what is and isnt a valid reason to back Michael O'Leary. I'm not going to skip to your tune simply because you say so.

I've seen some of your posts in other threads relating to Ryanair and I think, you may have a chip on your shoulder about Michael.

you think wrong. in fact, i have often agreed with some of the things he has said over the years. however, in my view, and i am not alone on this view, ryanair needs to start beingmore respectful to customers and staff.

CosmicJay wrote: »

Its perfectly understandable as he does come across as quite insufferable 99% of the time, but I dont believe that it is any reason to completely ignore his massive contribution to our modern airline culture.

i haven't ignored it. however i'm not over estimating his contribution either, like some tend to do.

CosmicJay wrote: »

Ryanair has typically been at the forefront of the budget airline surge, he wouldnt still be CEO over 20 years down the line if he did nothing. Michael O'Leary has been at the wheel of a company which has given our modern society a wonderful ability to fly on da cheap.

plenty of CEO'S of companies have done fantastic things for their company. it is what they are paid for after all. it doesn't make them anything special. mol is nothing special. he has done great things for ryanair but he is paid to do so. however if the shareholders deem that he is no longer the person to run the company then he will be out.

CosmicJay wrote: »

Yeah, workers rights morally do come before my right to cheap travel, so does all of the workers in third world countries which make the clothes you wear on your back. Do 99% of us really care when it comes down to it.

No.

I want my cheap flights to stay cheap, I'll moan about anyone who tries to change it.

nobody is going to change it or is trying to change it, so you have no valid complaint in that regard.

CosmicJay wrote: »

unions taking hold of ryanair will turn it into a premium airline.

a premium employer yes. an airline which will offer cheap flights, but will offer good terms and conditions to staff.

CosmicJay wrote: »

Just like they did Aer Lingus? funny joke.

not funny joke at all. Aer Lingus is well regarded and respected in it's own way and have been for a long time. it turned itself around for the most part, but for a while didn't look to have the greatist management.

ancapailldorcha · 13-12-2017 7:13pm

keith_sixteen wrote: »

Anyone who booked with Ryanair this Xmas, given everything that went on this year, only have themselves to blame.

Indeed. My last 3 or 4 flights with them have been delayed. I think I've finally had my fill of their incompetence.

13-12-2017 7:15pm

Anyone accepting the offer of a job does so in full knowledge of the terms and conditions. Crying over these at a later stage is downright silly. Striking is just showing total disrespect for the very people who are responsible for keeping them in employment.

ancapailldorcha · 13-12-2017 7:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone accepting the offer of a job does so in full knowledge of the terms and conditions. Crying over these at a later stage is downright silly. Striking is just showing total disrespect for the very people who are responsible for keeping them in employment.

But you're perfectly fine with management doing the very same thing to their own staff?

exaisle · 13-12-2017 7:18pm

I don't fly Ryanair any more. I want to be able to tilt the seat even a few degrees to make it possible to sleep. I don't want to have to do a two day camel hike to the gates in Dublin and above all I don't want to be hassled to buy your fcuking raffle tickets.

Go the pilots!

Are ya right there Michael, are ya right?

13-12-2017 7:19pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

But you're perfectly fine with management doing the very same thing to their own staff?

I don’t get your point.

Management hire staff under certain terms and conditions. Staff accept those terms and conditions at time of hiring. They cannot just turn around at a later stage and change their minds.

ancapailldorcha · 13-12-2017 7:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Management hire staff under certain terms and conditions. Staff accept those terms and conditions at time of hiring. They cannot just turn around at a later stage and change their minds.

Yes they can. That's currently what they are doing.

13-12-2017 7:35pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Yes they can. That's currently what they are doing.

If I tried that in my job I’d be out on my ear. Then again I’m just a ”glorified receptionist” as was mentioned earlier. :rolleyes:

Ryanair Pilots put it up to O'Leary

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