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Ryanair Pilots put it up to O'Leary

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    #122
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    737max wrote: »
    Post reported. You continue to slander Ryanair suggesting they are unsafe to fly with. You post anonymously but you will get boards.ie in to trouble.

    Eh ok pal. Tell teacher i wont be back after lunch too.


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    #123
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    CosmicJay wrote: »
    I'm backing O'Leary all the way on this one.

    Mainly cause I like the ability to fly to anywhere in Europe for less than the cost of a night out.

    I think hes brought cheap travel and holidays to the masses, I couldnt care less if hes an arse most of the time.

    I had the pleasure of sitting next to an elderly gentleman on a ryanair flight home last year, he told of me of the times back in the 90's when he used to have to pay 700 punts to fly to Amsterdam with Aer Lingus, now you can do that 60 quid round trip if you book in advance.

    I see the unions as a beginning of the end for Ryanair cheapo flights.


    that's not a valid reason to back mol, as that service will still be availible regardless of what happens. mol has no valid argument here. it was the founders of ryanair who ultimately brought cheap travel, mol just built on it. the founders deserve the credit for taking the risk all those years ago. workers rights and good terms and conditions come over your "right" to cheap travel (you actually don't have a right to cheap flights funnily enough)
    if unions do come in to ryanair, they will turn it into a premium employer, which will be loved by passengers and staff. cheap flights will continue, and the workers will have fair terms and conditions. nothing but a win win for everybody (bar mol and his few fans)
    Deleted User wrote: »
    To be fair, Ryanair staff know the terms and conditions of their employment when they accept their jobs. The bottom line is their wages are paid by their customers.

    well it looks like the terms no longer meet modern expectations. so it's time for change. change is coming, it's a case of what form it will take.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Is it not about union recognition?

    that is part of it.
    737max wrote: »
    It is about one single union having the power to shut down both Aer Lingus and Ryanair like a spigot in pursuit of their own interests.
    Think of Train or Bus strikes but with Planes and no other practical way of getting on or off the Island.

    it's been a good while since busses and trains went out together. you have plenty of ways to get off the island, other airlines and the boat if needs be.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Striking is not the way to “improve your lot”
    Applying for roles with other companies is how you do that
    If every company’s employees striked to “improve their” lot the world would be in chaos

    But now it’s the selfish few who hold the country to ransom

    striking is also the way to improve your lot. applying for roles with other companies is another option, but not only does it not solve the issues, but striking is as much of a valid option. if striking wasn't necessary it wouldn't happen. the ryanair pilots are not one bit selfish.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #124
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's been a good while since busses and trains went out together. you have plenty of ways to get off the island, other airlines and the boat if needs be.
    Hark, the voice of the Union Movement in residence speaks. We can get the boat to Holyhead and Brittany and make our way onwards from there under our own steam.


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    #125
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #126
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ryanair Pilots put two fingers up to their customers

    Well not really. Ryanair pilots put two fingers up to their management refusal to accept collective bargaining.

    Ryanair management are putting two fingers up to their customers because they don't want to engage in collective bargaining with their staff.


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    #127
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    RustyNut wrote: »
    Well not really. Ryanair pilots put two fingers up to their management refusal to accept collective bargaining.

    Ryanair management are putting two fingers up to their customers because they don't want to engage in collective bargaining with their staff.

    That is not true. They can negotiate collectively on a base by base/country by country basis. They will negotiate collectively but not with a puppet body driven by Union movement dogma which doesn't align with the interests of either the company or the employee.
    The union movement is an octopus trying to uncork the bottle, slither in and destroy whatever is inside the company.


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    #128
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    737max wrote: »
    That is not true. They can negotiate collectively on a base by base/country by country basis. They will negotiate collectively but not with a puppet body driven by Union movement dogma which doesn't align with the interests of either the company or the employee.
    The union movement is an octopus trying to uncork the bottle, slither in and destroy whatever is inside the company.

    So they can't negotiate collectively, only in small groups that are delineated by the company. This is obviously not acceptable by the staff and Ryanair have decided that resisting collective bargaining is worth the trouble a strike will bring.


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    #129
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,310 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RustyNut wrote: »
    So they can't negotiate collectively, only in small groups that are delineated by the company. This is obviously not acceptable by the staff and Ryanair have decided that resisting collective bargaining is worth the trouble a strike will bring.


    they can currently negotiate on a country by country basis. how is that a "small group"?


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    #130
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,027 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Look for a new job like everyone else

    everyone else doesn't look for another job, but tries to improve the job they are in . if they can't then they may look for another job, if such an option is viable for them, or they may withdraw their labour. both options are equally as valid.
    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Make it an option.

    Upskill.

    Apply to a different company.

    you can't make it an option, it's either an option or it's not. upskill and find another job is simplistic nonsense that in a lot of cases just isn't viable, and actually, it's not someone's job to do any of it. it's their job to make the job they do have the best they can get it, because it's the job they chose and the job they want to do. they would have spent enough money on the training.
    737max wrote: »
    The Union has no interest in the interests of the Pilots who once trained up will be highly employable. The Union don't care that other crew will go without pay on those days if the planes don't fly.
    The unions wish to capture control of critical infrastructure which is the civil aviation connection to the outside world.
    The Pilots are greater fools who are helping them to achieve their ends.

    ryanair is not critical infrastructure. it's an airline, of which a number operate flights into and out of this country.
    737max wrote: »
    You have not heard of IALPA striking? They are the Aer Lingus Union and the strikers are insisting that they represent Ryanair too. So one union will be able to call strikes on the majority of flights going in to and out of Ireland.

    there would be no more of a risk of such strikes with a union representing staff at both companies then there is now. the risk of both companies going out exists and has always existed. a union will make no difference to that risk.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I’ve never worked for a company that was unionised. I stuck up for myself by asking for a payrise/better working conditions, or by moving on to greener pastures. What myself or my colleagues didn’t do is throw our toys out of the pram and demand more, and then strike when we didn’t get it. Ridiculous carry on.

    Sticking up for themselves would be changing employment

    This is dinosaur stuff in 2017

    it's not no . striking is as modern in 2017 as it was when the first strike ever happened. withdrawel of labour is as much of a valid way to improve terms and conditions as direct employee negotiation with the employer, or finding another job. all options are equally as valid depending on viability.
    737max wrote: »
    Hark, the voice of the Union Movement in residence speaks. We can get the boat to Holyhead and Brittany and make our way onwards from there under our own steam.


    you can yes . you would not be stuck on the island in the event of a ryanair strike, as you claimed.
    and i'm not the voice of any movement, union or otherwise.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #131
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    emo72 wrote: »
    can michael not run the business and be nice to his staff? a little bit of class wouldnt go amiss in fairness. when did it become the norm to be so boorish? michael o leary doesnt behave very nice. its like he watched wall street in the 80s and based his persona on gordon gekko.
    not cool michael, not cool.

    this is it really. There is a certain satisfaction in a "**** them all, it's business" person like O'Leary for years and years getting thrown from a great height by his own employees in the last 6 months. And by other companies snatching his own pilots by offering them better conditions/wages.

    Everyone gets caught in the end.:)


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    #132
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    end of the road wrote: »
    everyone else doesn't look for another job, but tries to improve the job they are in . if they can't then they may look for another job, if such an option is viable for them, or they may withdraw their labour. both options are equally as valid.



    you can't make it an option, it's either an option or it's not. upskill and find another job is simplistic nonsense that in a lot of cases just isn't viable, and actually, it's not someone's job to do any of it. it's their job to make the job they do have the best they can get it, because it's the job they chose and the job they want to do. they would have spent enough money on the training.



    ryanair is not critical infrastructure. it's an airline, of which a number operate flights into and out of this country.



    there would be no more of a risk of such strikes with a union representing staff at both companies then there is now. the risk of both companies going out exists and has always existed. a union will make no difference to that risk.



    it's not no . striking is as modern in 2017 as it was when the first strike ever happened. withdrawel of labour is as much of a valid way to improve terms and conditions as direct employee negotiation with the employer, or finding another job. all options are equally as valid depending on viability.




    you can yes . you would not be stuck on the island in the event of a ryanair strike, as you claimed.
    and i'm not the voice of any movement, union or otherwise.
    I understand that you and reality are not close bedfellows but for the other people in the audience; If the Union controls 75% of all the flights coming in to and out of the ISLAND then the Union can(and most definitely will) lock down the country when and as it suits them to do so.


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    #133
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    RustyNut wrote: »
    So they can't negotiate collectively, only in small groups that are delineated by the company. This is obviously not acceptable by the staff and Ryanair have decided that resisting collective bargaining is worth the trouble a strike will bring.
    They are delineated by natural and appropriate geographical and jurisdictional borders which are not controlled by the company but a power greater than the company.


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    #134
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm flying with Ryanair on the 21st


    Am I shagged?


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    #135
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    737max wrote: »
    I understand that you and reality are not close bedfellows but for the other people in the audience; If the Union controls 75% of all the flights coming in to and out of the ISLAND then the Union can(and most definitely will) lock down the country when and as it suits them to do so.

    You should log out and go have some tea pal. If aviation is such a critical piece of infrastructure it should be brought into the public service.

    You want critical infrastructure which uses extremely expensive aircraft and operate without incident and want to pay **** all. Unfortunatley that aint how the world works.


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    #136
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    Edz87 wrote: »
    I'm flying with Ryanair on the 21st


    Am I shagged?

    Yeah but it's extra!


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    #137
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    end of the road wrote: »
    everyone else doesn't look for another job, but tries to improve the job they are in . if they can't then they may look for another job, if such an option is viable for them, or they may withdraw their labour. both options are equally as valid.



    you can't make it an option, it's either an option or it's not. upskill and find another job is simplistic nonsense that in a lot of cases just isn't viable, and actually, it's not someone's job to do any of it. it's their job to make the job they do have the best they can get it, because it's the job they chose and the job they want to do. they would have spent enough money on the training.



    ryanair is not critical infrastructure. it's an airline, of which a number operate flights into and out of this country.



    there would be no more of a risk of such strikes with a union representing staff at both companies then there is now. the risk of both companies going out exists and has always existed. a union will make no difference to that risk.



    it's not no . striking is as modern in 2017 as it was when the first strike ever happened. withdrawel of labour is as much of a valid way to improve terms and conditions as direct employee negotiation with the employer, or finding another job. all options are equally as valid depending on viability.




    you can yes . you would not be stuck on the island in the event of a ryanair strike, as you claimed.
    and i'm not the voice of any movement, union or otherwise.

    The irony!!!

    How many benefit threads have you opined about workers being "free to move to another job, upskill or retrain" ???


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    #138
    BizzyC
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    The Pilots could strike any other weekend in the year and cause massive disruption that would get their point across, but instead they've decided to do it at Xmas and hold the public to ransom at an important time of the year.
    I'm all for people getting better working conditions, but as soon as you intentionally target the general public with your plan you lose any support/empathy I had for the situation.


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    #139
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    kona wrote: »
    You should log out and go have some tea pal. If aviation is such a critical piece of infrastructure it should be brought into the public service.

    You want critical infrastructure which uses extremely expensive aircraft and operate without incident and want to pay **** all. Unfortunatley that aint how the world works.

    On an Island a distance away from everywhere Aviation is critical infrastructure.
    It was effectively a public service and long after most other nations were flying everywhere Ireland's emigrants were still catching the mailboat to Holyhead and returning home only for funerals as they couldn't afford to pay Aer Lingus fares.


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    #140
    OnDraught
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭OnDraught


    Anyone still booking flights with Ryanair after what happened in the summer can't complain if their flights get cancelled. They're a joke.


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    #141
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    keith_sixteen wrote:
    This strike is not about wages.


    Indeed it isn't. It's a power struggle to try to get the unions involved to create an environment where the company is run for the benefit of the pilots alone.

    Unions are almost unheard of working in IT. Why do highly paid pilots need them?


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    #142
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    OnDraught wrote: »
    Anyone still booking flights with Ryanair after what happened in the summer can't complain if their flights get cancelled. They're a joke.

    Yes we can. I've flown 20-30 times since then, not even a delay.


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    #143
    OnDraught
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭OnDraught


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    Yes we can. I've flown 20-30 times since then, not even a delay.

    Until this...


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    #144
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    OnDraught wrote: »
    Until this...

    I fly them because I've no other viable option.


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    #145
    keith_sixteen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭keith_sixteen


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Indeed it isn't. It's a power struggle to try to get the unions involved to create an environment where the company is run for the benefit of the pilots alone.

    I'd normally agree but in this instance you are wrong.
    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Unions are almost unheard of working in IT. Why do highly paid pilots need them?

    Cos you never hear the phrase "IT workers are glorified secretaries"


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    #146
    OnDraught
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭OnDraught


    PeterParker957 wrote: »
    I fly them because I've no other viable option.

    I find that hard to believe.


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    #147
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    OnDraught wrote: »
    I find that hard to believe.

    No it's true, for about 3 months Aer Lingus flew the route I fly, was wonderful.

    Then they stopped. Less so :(


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    #148
    mikeysmith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭mikeysmith


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    Im against it cos I don't want my flights to be cancelled over Christmas :mad:

    It's not just that

    It's the safety aspect with all the trainees that will have to fly the planes


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    #149
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    I used to get really into the reasoning of strikes and get passionate about whether I was for or against it. Now the only interest I have in the strike is if it will affect me coming home for Christmas. I know it's a selfish, greedy opinion which does not take into account the Ryanair pilots quality of work, or people on the other side worried about the effect, but that's how I feel about it now.

    I'm living in a country at the moment that sees quite a lot of strikes/protests in comparison to back home. With them being quite regular think I've found myself a bit desensitized to it now. Maybe this is just me but found that the more common strikes are in day to day lives the more I've stopped caring about the actual cause.

    I've nothing against people striking for the right reasons. I think the fact that people expect more now is both a blessing and curse.

    Often people call for more strikes in Ireland. Saying we don't do it enough. If that is the case I hope we are given plenty of notice beforehand. I know I've dealt with 2-3 bus strikes in last 5 months that no one was even aware were planned until the day they happened.

    May watch Terminal for preparation of the event of me getting trapped in the airport.


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    #150
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    mikeysmith wrote: »
    It's not just that

    It's the safety aspect with all the trainees that will have to fly the planes
    No unqualfied personnel will be allowed fly Ryanair planes. This is scaremongering for the ignorant.


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    #151
    PeterParker957
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭PeterParker957


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    I used to get really into the reasoning of strikes and get passionate about whether I was for or against it. Now the only interest I have in the strike is if it will affect me coming home for Christmas. I know it's a selfish, greedy opinion which does not take into account the Ryanair pilots quality of work, or people on the other side worried about the effect, but that's how I feel about it now.

    I'm living in a country at the moment that sees quite a lot of strikes/protests in comparison to back home. With them being quite regular think I've found myself a bit desensitized to it now. Maybe this is just me but found that the more common strikes are in day to day lives the more I've stopped caring about the actual cause.

    I've nothing against people striking for the right reasons. I think the fact that people expect more now is both a blessing and curse.

    Often people call for more strikes in Ireland. Saying we don't do it enough. If that is the case I hope we are given plenty of notice beforehand. I know I've dealt with 2-3 bus strikes in last 5 months that no one was even aware were planned until the day they happened.

    May watch Terminal for preparation of the event of me getting trapped in the airport.

    If you don't pull Catherine Zeta Jones you can't sue Ryanair!!


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