Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

RichieRich89

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Well I mentioned him purely because I keep seeing new top class number 10s linked to Bristol.

I threw his name in mainly as a who knows what could happen to highlight that it's a bit early for anyone to say something has to happen for 2019.

I qualified my statement by saying "if they didn't want to have to take three specialist outhalves". Can you think of anyone in the squad or close to breaking into the squad playing scrumhalf, wing, centre or fullback (Carbery excepted, as Schmidt seems to want him exclusively as a 10) who comes anywhere near to being as competent at 10 as Scannell?

Burkie1203

RichieRich89 wrote: »

I qualified my statement by saying "if they didn't want to have to take three specialist outhalves". Can you think of anyone in the squad or close to breaking into the squad playing scrumhalf, wing, centre or fullback (Carbery excepted, as Schmidt seems to want him exclusively as a 10) who comes anywhere near to being as competent at 10 as Scannell?

It depends how the squad is made up

Does Henshaw go to cover 15, if so can we then bring just one 15 (Kearney) and Conway as a back 3 player

A lot will change before sept 2019

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Madigan seems very happy there and very happy with Lam. Carter is going to Japan.

I think this idea that Madigan has any intention of leaving Bristol exists purely in this forum.

I really don't think Madigan has any intention of leaving Bristol. But if Bristol didn't try to bring in someone to start at 10 ahead of Madigan they'd be the first club to do so in his career. I wouldn't be shocked to see it happening once they get promotion (whenever that is), there'll be a huge drive on their end to try to cement themselves in the Premiership.

MJohnston

RichieRich89 wrote: »

I qualified my statement by saying "if they didn't want to have to take three specialist outhalves". Can you think of anyone in the squad or close to breaking into the squad playing scrumhalf, wing, centre or fullback (Carbery excepted, as Schmidt seems to want him exclusively as a 10) who comes anywhere near to being as competent at 10 as Scannell?

Yes, but he's currently involved in a legal case which may or may not keep him out of the Ireland squad forever.

irishbucsfan

Joy Neville named the World Rugby Referee of the Year

RichieRich89

MJohnston wrote: »

Yes, but he's currently involved in a legal case which may or may not keep him out of the Ireland squad forever.

Yeah, forgot about Olding. He'd be the only one other than Scannell who'd be good enough to cover 10. I suppose they could take three specialist 10s and only two nines and be happy for someone like Carbery to fill in at 9 in an emergency

RichieRich89

Burkie1203 wrote: »

It depends how the squad is made up

Does Henshaw go to cover 15, if so can we then bring just one 15 (Kearney) and Conway as a back 3 player

A lot will change before sept 2019

5 halves, 4 centres, and 5 back three players seems optimal to me. But, as you say, things could be complicated a bit if there's a player who plays 13 and 15, or 10 and 15, or that sort of thing

D14Rugby

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Yeah, forgot about Olding. He'd be the only one other than Scannell who'd be good enough to cover 10. I suppose they could take three specialist 10s and only two nines and be happy for someone like Carbery to fill in at 9 in an emergency

Could look at it the other way and bring 3 9's and 2 10's and be happy for Murray to fill in at 10 in a crisis

RichieRich89

D14Rugby wrote: »

Could look at it the other way and bring 3 9's and 2 10's and be happy for Murray to fill in at 10 in a crisis

Dunno about that, man. Murray's a good place kicker but can he actually play 10 in phase play? I was thinking about scrumhalves who could fill in at 10, and I came up with Cooney and Hart (is he supposed to have played some 10 in France?). Cooney really looks like a scrumhalf playing out of position there, though. It was madness to have him as outhalf cover against La Rochelle, and he duly got badly exposed.

Anyway, for me, the best solution looks like three 9s, two 10s, and Scannell as one of two inside centres

Interested Observer

Didn't we only bring two scrum halves last time or am I going mad?

I don't think that's a very good idea tbh. I'd say 3 SHs, and maybe 2 OHs plus Carbery.

Predicting Ross Byrne to be in the conversation, he's getting better and better.

irishbucsfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

Didn't we only bring two scrum halves last time or am I going mad?

I don't think that's a very good idea tbh. I'd say 3 SHs, and maybe 2 OHs plus Carbery.

Predicting Ross Byrne to be in the conversation, he's getting better and better.

Yes we only brought two scrum halves after a million pages of arguments about Isaac Boss v. Kieran Marmion. Joe couldn't handle the pressure the discussion put on him, so he decided not to bother bringing one at all.

RichieRich89

Was it Cave or Madigan who was nominally third-choice scrumhalf in 2015?

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes we only brought two scrum halves after a million pages of arguments about Isaac Boss v. Kieran Marmion. Joe couldn't handle the pressure the discussion put on him, so he decided not to bother bringing one at all.

It was sound of him to settle the argument in the end though

RichieRich89

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Was it Cave or Madigan who was nominally third-choice scrumhalf in 2015?

It put to bed The Great Third Choice Scrumhalf Debate of 2015: Marmion or Boss.

The answer was Madigan all along.

D14Rugby

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Dunno about that, man. Murray's a good place kicker but can he actually play 10 in phase play? I was thinking about scrumhalves who could fill in at 10, and I came up with Cooney and Hart (is he supposed to have played some 10 in France?). Cooney really looks like a scrumhalf playing out of position there, though. It was madness to have him as outhalf cover against La Rochelle, and he duly got badly exposed.

Anyway, for me, the best solution looks like three 9s, two 10s, and Scannell as one of two inside centres

Personally id rather have someone who knows to play 9 in 9 and a makeshift outhalf than the opposite and Murray was just the first suitable one that came to mind.
Scannell will have to seriously up his game to justify being in the squad even while being emergency out half but if he does he seem like a good solution to the problem

PTH2009

cant wait for the 6 nations

it's going to be tough no doubt with France away up first and then 3 home games against Italy, Wales and a good Scotland side. England away on paddys day and what a day it would be if we won a GS or even a Championship

Interested Observer

We play Argentina again and NZ next Autumn, along with an unconfirmed tier 2 side.

NZ game will be tasty enough.

Granny15

D14Rugby wrote: »

Personally id rather have someone who knows to play 9 in 9 and a makeshift outhalf than the opposite and Murray was just the first suitable one that came to mind.
Scannell will have to seriously up his game to justify being in the squad even while being emergency out half but if he does he seem like a good solution to the problem

Cooney? He's playing well for Ulster ATM

AbusesToilets

Granny15 wrote: »

Cooney? He's playing well for Ulster ATM

Cooney is someone who deserves a chance. Hopefully he can continue his good form and get a shot next summer.

phog

Bar injury our back three are settled for the 6Ns, Kearney, Earls and Stockdale, I assume Conway will wear #23.

Healy is really after finding form - at one stage on Saturday I thought the was knackered then he goes and make a few tackles in a row and looks like he's just come onto the field.

The backrow has huge depth in talent available if everyone is fit, SOB, POM, Heaslip and CJ will probably battle it out for the match day squad and then you have the likes of JvdF, Leavy, TOD and Ruddock all hoping to get a look in too

With Jackson out we still have a gulf in cover for our halfbacks, Carbery has huge potential and hasn't let us down but he's not Sexton. I have a bigger concern for cover for Murray.

Overall we're in a good place squad wise.

Neil3030

Kearney was playing like a man possessed, at least certainly in the first half. I thought he was making a great impact around the field.

phog

Neil3030 wrote: »

Kearney was playing like a man possessed, at least certainly in the first half. I thought he was making a great impact around the field.

He was a contender for MotM

Clegg

Imo he wasn't just a contender, he was man of the match.

Sephiral

Kearney was brilliant while he was on the pitch all Autumn. I thought he wouldn't be capable of playing like that anymore, but I was wrong. He could well be our starting full back until after 2019. Conway looked comfortable as a backup as well. It will almost certainly be those two in the RWC squad, with backup from other positions (Carbery, Payne, Henshaw, Stockdale(?) etc).

We need to take three specialist scrum halves and three specialist hookers. I don't know if props who cover both sides is really viable at the top level at this stage, but we have a few who have done it.

Backrow will probably be five specialists. O Mahony, O Brien, Stander, Van Der Flier and a specialist 8. Henderson can cover blindside, and probably Beirne too. Stander covers blindside and number eight. O Brien covers both flanker positions. This is enormously unfair on some of our backrows, but our depth there is just that strong.

Flyhalf is a real concern if Johnny gets crocked again. Carbery and Byrne really need to develop. I don't see any way back for Jackson. Even if found not guilty, the details of the case are starting to look like it will make it untenable to stick around.

bilston

phog wrote: »

Neil3030 wrote: »

Kearney was playing like a man possessed, at least certainly in the first half. I thought he was making a great impact around the field.

He was a contender for MotM

I was a in a bar in Belfast and despite our Ulster affiliations to Stockdale everyone thought it should have been Kearney.

Quint2010

phog wrote: »

Bar injury our back three are settled for the 6Ns, Kearney, Earls and Stockdale, I assume Conway will wear #23.

Healy is really after finding form - at one stage on Saturday I thought the was knackered then he goes and make a few tackles in a row and looks like he's just come onto the field.

The backrow has huge depth in talent available if everyone is fit, SOB, POM, Heaslip and CJ will probably battle it out for the match day squad and then you have the likes of JvdF, Leavy, TOD and Ruddock all hoping to get a look in too

With Jackson out we still have a gulf in cover for our halfbacks, Carbery has huge potential and hasn't let us down but he's not Sexton. I have a bigger concern for cover for Murray.

Overall we're in a good place squad wise.

We are but we were saying the same thing this time last year and the Scots were waiting in the long grass for us. I just hope we don't have the same hubris this year (2018) as an away match first off is a very tough ask (again)

Clegg

Quint2010 wrote: »

We are but we were saying the same thing this time last year and the Scots were waiting in the long grass for us. I just hope we don't have the same hubris this year (2018) as an away match first off is a very tough ask (again)

The Scots had good coach in Cotter and had been gradually improving under his management. It was a surprise that they won, but they weren't a bad team even then.

France however, are a shambles. Massive pack but no discernable plan on how to use them or what they're doing once the ball goes past 10. They're worse than South Africa even. I wouldn't discount a whopper performance from them mainly because they're at home and, in my opinion they raise their game when they play us (2014 6N). But based on the last 12 months of performances we should win.

MJohnston

I think France away as the first game is good for us. Part of the problem with Scotland last year was we were not really ready for a tough match, perhaps a little rusty or overconfident. There can be no such mistaking France for an easy (relatively speaking) game. I've said earlier, this could be the most competitive 6N in quite a while though, France being France, England hovering around the edges of being great, Scotland being as good as I can remember them in the modern era, and I'll never discount Wales (especially against us) even if they are completely off the boil at the minute.

aloooof

MJohnston wrote: »

I think France away as the first game is good for us. Part of the problem with Scotland last year was we were not really ready for a tough match, perhaps a little rusty or overconfident. There can be no such mistaking France for an easy (relatively speaking) game. I've said earlier, this could be the most competitive 6N in quite a while though, France being France, England hovering around the edges of being great, Scotland being as good as I can remember them in the modern era, and I'll never discount Wales (especially against us) even if they are completely off the boil at the minute.

Add in the improved performances of the Italian club sides, will be interesting to see how / if that translates into the 6 Nations. Tho they got thumped by a poor SA team at the weekend...

stephen_n

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Kearney had a good series but he is a certain age and he can't keep going forever. He also can't rely on the experienced hand to marshall the backline tag he held this time.

Did Joe or anyone else in the Irish camp use this expression? I don't think so, people assumed that was why he was being picked. There is nothing factual to back it up, the probability is, he was picked because he remains first choice 15 against tier 1 opposition.