Refugee Family Reunification

rgossip30 · 14-11-2017 1:54pm #1

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/government-defeated-in-seanad-on-private-member-s-refugee-bill-1.3284829

The Bill paves the way for refugees to bring grandparents, cousins, nephews, nieces and siblings to Ireland by expanding the reunification programme.
Interesting the outcome does the Seanad have the influence to change policy ?

hawkelady · 14-11-2017 1:56pm

Ibraham's sisters will be happy !!!

Odhinn · 14-11-2017 1:57pm

....o god jesus no....

Fake News · 14-11-2017 2:00pm

1 bogus refugee is bad enough

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 2:04pm

Can there be a third option "not a fcking chance, over my dead body" please ???

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 2:05pm

hawkelady wrote: »

Ibraham's sisters will be happy looking for something else to whine about !!!

FYP there!

Will I Am Not · 14-11-2017 2:11pm

It’s such a spectacularly stupid idea that you would have to worry about the motive behind it. When you look at the potential size of the extended family from the countries that they come from, it's beyond just a bad idea.

wakka12 · 14-11-2017 2:13pm

Only children under 18 of the refugee and his/her married partner
Reuniting their extended family seems just ridiculous and unfeasible

Odhinn · 14-11-2017 2:13pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

It’s such a spectacularly stupid idea that you would have to worry about the motive behind it. When you look at the potential size of the extended family from the countries that they come from, it's beyond just a bad idea.

We should send out a letter to them places -

"Dear foriegners, if you intend to been in a nasty aul war at any stage in the future, cut down on the sprogs"

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 2:14pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Only children under 18 of the refugee and his/her married partner

How many wives though ???? This could still be 15-20 souls.

wakka12 · 14-11-2017 2:15pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

How many wives though ???? This could still be 15-20 souls.

Whoever is the mother of the children, I think in those polygmaous marriages theres usually just one mother of the children? but not sure

Hitman3000 · 14-11-2017 2:15pm

I wonder where they intend housing them if the bill passes. Direct provision is nearly at capacity and in case these geniuses have missed it there is a housing shortage.

seamus · 14-11-2017 2:17pm

It's fairly alarmist. There's nothing to suggest they're proposing that people can be reunified with their extended family.

The proposal is simply to extend the ability of reunification to
"(e) any grandparent, parent, brother, sister, child, grandchild, ward or guardian of the sponsor who is dependent on the qualified person or is suffering from a mental or physical disability to such extent that it is not reasonable for him or her to maintain himself or herself fully."

That is, anyone who is dependent on the person. Seems reasonable.

It'll likely be modified in later stages to clarify what "dependent" means so that people aren't bringing over their able-bodied 35 year old children.

wakka12 · 14-11-2017 2:18pm

seamus wrote: »

It's fairly alarmist.

The proposal is simply to extend the ability of reunification to
"(e) any grandparent, parent, brother, sister, child, grandchild, ward or guardian of the sponsor who is dependent on the qualified person or is suffering from a mental or physical disability to such extent that it is not reasonable for him or her to maintain himself or herself fully."

That is, anyone who is dependent on the person. Seems reasonable.

It'll likely be modified in later stages to clarify what "dependent" means so that people aren't bringing over their able-bodied 35 year old children.

You could make the case that any grandparent is dependent on you for instance

Odhinn · 14-11-2017 2:20pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

How many wives though ???? This could still be 15-20 souls.

Polygamy is rare.

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-11-2017 2:21pm

where will they live? we cant even house our own

rgossip30 · 14-11-2017 2:22pm

wrote:

Do you have link as this is not in the article ? They can claim dependence I don't see any difference .

tomwaterford · 14-11-2017 2:29pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

It’s such a spectacularly stupid idea that you would have to worry about the motive behind it. When you look at the potential size of the extended family from the countries that they come from, it's beyond just a bad idea.

I have no issue taking in anyone fleeing war,if they make roots/lives for themself,not againest letting them stay

But this is ridcolus to be looking to bring in people and the war over. ...if anything I'd taught their refugee status could be at risk?

_Kaiser_ · 14-11-2017 2:31pm

Ridiculous notion. Aside from the fact that we have enough problems trying to house our own, how do they propose to pay for these people who will inevitably end up dependent on the State to feed/house/support them possibly indefinitely.

I keep saying this - we're a small island nation of 4.5 million people with significant infrastructure, economic and social issues as it is (and stuff like Brexit on the horizon which will probably make things worse in the short-medium term).
Sort out the problems here before we start trying to sort out the problems elsewhere (and which we have no obligation for). Charity begins at home and there's more than enough deserving cases if there's suddenly resources to spare.

one world order · 14-11-2017 2:33pm

We need to get rid of the Seanad

quintana76 · 14-11-2017 2:38pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I wonder where they intend housing them if the bill passes. Direct provision is nearly at capacity and in case these geniuses have missed it there is a housing shortage.

Not an issue when you are just showing off how virtuous and caring you are. Consequences are not a consideration especially when it won't effect you directly.

quintana76 · 14-11-2017 2:40pm

one world order wrote: »

We need to get rid of the Seanad

Well had the chance with the referendum. In our collective wisdom we decided to give Enda a kicking instead.

quintana76 · 14-11-2017 2:44pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Only children under 18 of the refugee and his/her married partner
Reuniting their extended family seems just ridiculous and unfeasible

[PHP]

When considering this option think of Sr Zappone of the bearded 'children'.

Hitman3000 · 14-11-2017 2:44pm

hawkelady wrote:

Ibraham's sisters will be happy !!!

They are already citizens so will have no effect on them. Thankfully.

_Kaiser_ · 14-11-2017 2:44pm

one world order wrote: »

We need to get rid of the Seanad

quintana76 wrote: »

Well had the chance with the referendum. In our collective wisdom we decided to give Enda a kicking instead.

Nope, most people recognize the value (in theory) of two houses of parliament.. the problem is the third option "reform it" wasn't offered by Enda.

That's what's needed... not give Leo and co even more of a free hand then they already have.

suicide_circus · 14-11-2017 2:48pm

Does this imply that those with refugee status are here on a permanent basis?

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 2:49pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Does this imply that those with refugee status are here on a permanent basis?

I never thought otherwise to be honest.

JP Liz V1 · 14-11-2017 3:02pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I wonder where they intend housing them if the bill passes. Direct provision is nearly at capacity and in case these geniuses have missed it there is a housing shortage.

Ballaghaderreen

Hitman3000 · 14-11-2017 3:07pm

JP Liz V1 wrote:

Ballaghaderreen

Have you been there? Seems to me it was done to encourage them to want to go back to Syria.

end of the road · 14-11-2017 3:10pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ridiculous notion. Aside from the fact that we have enough problems trying to house our own, how do they propose to pay for these people who will inevitably end up dependent on the State to feed/house/support them possibly indefinitely.

I keep saying this - we're a small island nation of 4.5 million people with significant infrastructure, economic and social issues as it is (and stuff like Brexit on the horizon which will probably make things worse in the short-medium term).
Sort out the problems here before we start trying to sort out the problems elsewhere (and which we have no obligation for). Charity begins at home and there's more than enough deserving cases if there's suddenly resources to spare.

charity doesn't begin at home as we have systems to deal with our issues.

one world order wrote: »

We need to get rid of the Seanad

we don't.

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 3:11pm

end of the road wrote: »

charity doesn't begin at home as we have systems to deal with our issues.

nope.

Hitman3000 · 14-11-2017 3:12pm

end of the road wrote:

charity doesn't begin at home as we have systems to deal with our issues.

They seem to be working so well. Homelessness at crisis point. Over 3000 children homeless.

end of the road · 14-11-2017 3:32pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They seem to be working so well. Homelessness at crisis point. Over 3000 children homeless.

they may not work but they exist, hence they can be sorted out so that they do work. it will require you not voting for ffg though.

topper75 · 14-11-2017 3:33pm

Are some posters here suffering from some kind of unpatchable millenium bug where history begins in 2000?

We had our own wars here. Big families.

The people largely stayed here and saw it out.

What is it with the Syrians that they refuse to rebuild their land and throw themselves instead at the doorsteps of other nations, squawking with outstretched cupped hands.

The 'refugee' time has long passed now.

Hitman3000 · 14-11-2017 3:37pm

end of the road wrote:

they may not work but they exist, hence they can be sorted out so that they do work. it will require you not voting for ffg though.

That is of absolutely no comfort to the thousands that are homeless. I don't say this lightly but it is time we put our own citizens first. The last 2 decades have taught me that a significant number see Ireland as a soft touch.

end of the road · 14-11-2017 3:37pm

topper75 wrote: »

Are some posters here suffering from some kind of unpatchable millenium bug where history begins in 2000?

We had our own wars here. Big families.

The people largely stayed here and saw it out.

What is it with the Syrians that they refuse to rebuild their land and throw themselves instead at the doorsteps of other nations, squawking with outstretched cupped hands.

The 'refugee' time has long passed now.

if the refugee time has long past then we wouldn't have refugees. we have refugees because the time for refugees hasn't long past, unfortunately. perhapse the reason the syrians won't stay and rebuild is due to a particular group who want to kill just because? the group is called isis. as for your statement that the people in ireland largely stayed and saw out the issues, immigration from ireland was large scale during the times we had major problems.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

That is of absolutely no comfort to the thousands that are homeless. I don't say this lightly but it is time we put our own citizens first. The last 2 decades have taught me that a significant number see Ireland as a soft touch.

our own citizens are put first. our own citizens are entitled to use the system in whole as long as they meet the criteria. refugees on the other hand are in direct provision with a small allowence per week.

Donal55 · 14-11-2017 3:43pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

where will they live? we cant even house our own

In an ever decreasing supply of houses so. The dept of Justice refugees will trump everone else in this idiotic situation.

riffmongous · 14-11-2017 3:46pm

topper75 wrote: »

Are some posters here suffering from some kind of unpatchable millenium bug where history begins in 2000?

We had our own wars here. Big families.

The people largely stayed here and saw it out.

What is it with the Syrians that they refuse to rebuild their land and throw themselves instead at the doorsteps of other nations, squawking with outstretched cupped hands.

The 'refugee' time has long passed now.

What the hell are you talking about? The people stayed here after the wars because they didn't have much choice in the matter, when they did during the famine they fled in their droves.

What land are the Syrians supposed to be rebuilding? Lets not forget the whole war started because people wanted change and their protests were brutally put down by the same dictator who is now almost back in control after beating back an even more brutal regime.

KrustyUCC · 14-11-2017 3:46pm

530 refugees to to be reunited with family members who are already living in Ireland
The Justice Minister also announced an increase in the number of new refugees to be resettled in Ireland over the next two years.

http://www.thejournal.ie/refugee-resettlement-families-3695987-Nov2017/

Where are these people going to be housed?

Do they skip over the people already on the housing lists?

Today the ESRI predicted that house prices will increase 20% over the next three years thanks to supply issues

As if that fact won't cause more homlessness and restrict people already here in buying there own house

No doubt the new reunifications will get priority

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 3:52pm

end of the road wrote: »

our own citizens are put first. our own citizens are entitled to use the system in whole as long as they meet the criteria. refugees on the other hand are in direct provision with a small allowence per week.

Which in my opinion they should ONLY get when every single one of our people are fed, clothed and housed.

Hitman3000 · 14-11-2017 3:53pm

end of the road wrote:

our own citizens are put first. our own citizens are entitled to use the system in whole as long as they meet the criteria. refugees on the other hand are in direct provision with a small allowence per week.

So a roof over their heads, 3 meals a day, medical care and money . No wonder they are happy to come here. Direct provision has it's faults but if they don't like it I'm sure the state would be happy to repatriate them.

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 3:53pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5056281/High-Court-rules-child-migrants-NHS-priority.html

UK I know and Daily Heil but we're going this way. Sadly.

PeterParker957 · 14-11-2017 3:54pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So a roof over their heads, 3 meals a day, medical care and money . No wonder they are happy to come here. Direct provision has it's faults but if they don't like it I'm sure the state would be happy to repatriate them.

I imagine the couple sleeping rough in the p**sing down rain by the Shelbourne would give their right arms for DP.

But they can't get it. "Refugees only".

rgossip30 · 14-11-2017 4:16pm

These refugees should be helped at source .The money is more cost effective and it eliminates the bogus applicants at 90% .

end of the road · 14-11-2017 4:29pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Which in my opinion they should ONLY get when every single one of our people are fed, clothed and housed.

what nonsense. the allowence is for them to buy the bare basics they need. it's either that or they get provided with them, which means the money is still being spent. and even then 100% of people are never going to be housed as, unfortunately some people have issues that simply providing them with a house won't make go away.

rgossip30 wrote: »

These refugees should be helped at source .The money is more cost effective and it eliminates the bogus applicants at 90% .

we have tried helping them at source via foreign aid. it hasn't been hugely successful or cost effective unfortunately. there are no easy answers.

_Kaiser_ · 14-11-2017 4:31pm

rgossip30 wrote: »

These refugees should be helped at source .The money is more cost effective and it eliminates the bogus applicants at 90% .

I agree with the sentiment, except that we (at State and individual level) already give enough in foreign aid as it is - we were giving out hundreds of millions during the recession FFS (money which we in fact borrowed and paying interest on!)

We can barely keep things running here (health service, housing, problems in the Gardai etc) without trying to solve all the ills in the world as well... but "we" do seem to crave the "attaboys" from other nations for our virtue-signalling.

_Kaiser_ · 14-11-2017 4:33pm

end of the road wrote: »

what nonsense. the allowence is for them to buy the bare basics they need. it's either that or they get provided with them, which means the money is still being spent. and even then 100% of people are never going to be housed as, unfortunately some people have issues that simply providing them with a house won't make go away.

And why exactly SHOULD we be responsible for the long-term housing and well-being of "refugees"/economic migrants?

Whatever about temporarily providing shelter during a time of war or significant danger in their homeland, what's wrong with sending them home when the danger has passed if they're unable to support themselves at that stage.

end of the road · 14-11-2017 4:34pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment, except that we (at State and individual level) already give enough in foreign aid as it is - we were giving out hundreds of millions during the recession FFS (money which we in fact borrowed and paying interest on!)

We can barely keep things running here (health service, housing, problems in the Gardai etc) without trying to solve all the ills in the world as well... but "we" do seem to crave the "attaboys" from other nations for our virtue-signalling.

there is no such thing as virtue-signalling.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And why exactly SHOULD we be responsible for the long-term housing and well-being of "refugees"/economic migrants?

Whatever about temporarily providing shelter during a time of war or significant danger in their homeland, what's wrong with sending them home when the danger has passed if they're unable to support themselves at that stage.

they are sent home after the danger has passed.

_Kaiser_ · 14-11-2017 4:44pm

end of the road wrote: »

there is no such thing as virtue-signalling.

they are sent home after the danger has passed.

You saying something doesn't exist doesn't make it so. How about answering the rest of my point though?

Really? As far as I'm aware there's no such plan.. the objective seems to be to encourage/enable them to resettle here and allow them to appeal every effort to return them (multiple times) from what we've seen already in the past.

riffmongous · 14-11-2017 4:45pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Which in my opinion they should ONLY get when every single one of our people are fed, clothed and housed.

We are a comparitively rich, well developed country, we should be able to do more than one thing at a time. That we have so many problems is most likely as much due to a lack of political will as anything else.

And because there might be a will there in certain people to help refuges shouldn't mean that they should be castigated for not helping the homeless, but rather the polticians who aren't helping anyone in need should be the ones being pressured

Donal55 · 14-11-2017 4:51pm

end of the road wrote: »

there is no such thing as virtue-signalling.

they are sent home after the danger has passed.

Why do we give them citizenship so?

Refugee Family Reunification

Do you approve the Seanad recommendation on Family 49 votes

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