Saudi Arabia and Iran war talk!

Cheerful Spring · 10-11-2017 4:56pm #1

We discussed this before, but now Isis is near defeated. The big powers in the region are now beginning to threaten each other.

Saudi Arabia has ordered its citizens to leave Lebanon immediately, escalating a regional standoff with Iran centred on the fragile state, which it claims is being run by Tehran’s proxy, Hezbollah.

The move follows a week of bellicose rhetoric from the Sunni Arab powerhouse about its Shia rival, drawing strong support from Donald Trump and Israel, all three of whom insist Iran is forging strongholds across the region.

The standoff has taken tensions between Riyadh and Tehran to new levels and raised fears that decades of distrust and manoeuvrings between the two may be building towards a military confrontation, underwritten by the Trump administration and joined by Israel.

The Saudi order for its citizens to leave, also made by the kingdom’s allies in Bahrain and Kuwait, came after the country’s foreign minister, Adel al-Jubeir, said his government would treat Lebanon as a hostile state as long as Hezbollah was in the government. He described Hezbollah’s participation in government as an “act of war” against Saudi Arabia.

The Israeli intelligence minister, Yisrael Katz, said on Thursday he believed conditions were ripe for a diplomatic offensive against Iran and Hezbollah at the United Nations, where he said Israel would seek better enforcement of a 2006 ceasefire agreement that called on Hezbollah to disarm and stay away from its border.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/10/saudi-arabia-orders-citizens-to-leave-lebanon-as-tensions-rise

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 5:00pm

So Hezbollah, democratic organisation who are part of a democratically elected government = bad but Saudi Arabia is the good guy because Hezbollah are friendly with Iran and the Saudis and Israel don't like having regional competition?

Feck off Saudi.

Cheerful Spring · 10-11-2017 5:03pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So Hezbollah, democratic organisation who are part of a democratically elected government = bad but Saudi Arabia is the good guy because Hezbollah are friendly with Iran and the Saudis and Israel don't like having regional competition?

Feck off Saudi.

There is major power play purge happening in Saudi Arabia. The western media barely talking about it. This new prince is wiping out all rivals under the guise of corruption.

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia) — Dozens more people have been taken into custody by Saudi authorities, the kingdom said Thursday, bringing to 201 the number detained in a sweep that investigators say has uncovered at least $100 billion in corruption.

Saudi critics and experts have called the unprecedented purge of top princes and businessmen a bold and risky move by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman aimed at consolidating power as he keeps an eye on the throne, sidelining potential rivals and dismantling alliances built with other branches of the royal family.

The sweep comes at a time of increased tensions between Saudi Arabia and its main regional rival, Iran, over the ongoing conflict and suffering in Yemen and a newly erupting political crisis in Lebanon.

Saudi Attorney General Saud al-Mojeb said 208 people had been called in for questioning, and that seven were released without charge, leaving 201 in custody.

http://time.com/5018461/saudi-corruption-purge-prince-arrests/

bear1 · 10-11-2017 5:04pm

Christ the Middle East is just a boiling cauldron of hate and utter utter ****e talk.
The cheek of SA though when they are one of the biggest offenders against human rights is laughable.

Infini · 10-11-2017 5:07pm

To be honest so long as what happens in 'rabia stays in 'rabia I couldnt care less. Considering that he's consolidating power by sidelining the zealots Id be willing to wait and see how it plays out.

Cheerful Spring · 10-11-2017 5:11pm

Infini wrote: »

To be honest so long as what happens in 'rabia stays in 'rabia I couldnt care less. Considering that he's consolidating power by sidelining the zealots Id be willing to wait and see how it plays out.

He could be a new Saddam Hussein? Too early to tell though, but Saddam wiped out his rivals and took power and fought war against Iran, Kuwait and the west. I find it worrying the new prince is lashing out and saying Iran and it's proxies declared war?

10-11-2017 5:26pm

Saudi Arabia won't take on Iran, they may have the best military equipment from the U.S and U.K but they can barely defeat a few rebels in Yemen.

The Iranians have battle-hardened Generals from the Iran-Iraq war, not to mention being backed up by Hezbollah. Now could the Saudis count on the U.S getting fully involved, I'm not sure another all-out war will go down well at home.

Ipso · 10-11-2017 5:55pm

Muslims fighting muslims, has to be the weshts fault.

Hande hoche! · 10-11-2017 9:27pm

The Saudis have some of the best kit money can buy. Still seem to be getting a hiding from the Houthis. Unless they can get the Israelis to bite, don't see much happening.

server down · 10-11-2017 9:31pm

Ipso wrote: »

Muslims fighting muslims, has to be the weshts fault.

The US is definitely involved in helping Saudi if that is what you mean.

Gatling · 10-11-2017 10:07pm

cisk wrote: »

Saudi Arabia won't take on Iran, they may have the best military equipment from the U.S and U.K but they can barely defeat a few rebels in Yemen.

The Iranians have battle-hardened Generals from the Iran-Iraq war, not to mention being backed up by Hezbollah. Now could the Saudis count on the U.S getting fully involved, I'm not sure another all-out war will go down well at home.

You would be very naive to believe they are fighting a few rebels ,
Iranians have been heavily involved in various conflicts in the region for decades including the 2nd gulf war , sooner or later they will bite off more than they can chew

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 10:16pm

Iranians! Even when it was the bears I know it was the Iranians!

Odhinn · 10-11-2017 10:22pm

Not much good has come of supporting the Saudi regime thus far. Christ knows what disaster it'll take to change that policy.

Allinall · 10-11-2017 10:25pm

Shane Ross has already booked his flight.

Be grand.

10-11-2017 10:35pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

So Hezbollah, democratic organisation who are part of a democratically elected government = bad but Saudi Arabia is the good guy because Hezbollah are friendly with Iran and the Saudis and Israel don't like having regional competition?

Feck off Saudi.

Hezbollah, the terrorist anti Semitic group dedicated to the obliteration of Israel, the group that has bombed cultural centres, airplanes and busses to kill civilians, as well as assassinating democratically elected political figures in Lebanon...is a democratic organisation?

You're having a laugh!

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 10:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hezbollah, the terrorist anti Semitic group dedicated to the obliteration of Israel, the group that has bombed cultural centres, airplanes and busses to kill civilians, as well as assassinating democratically elected political figures in Lebanon...is a democratic organisation?

You're having a laugh!

You mean Hezbollah the group which began to protect Northern Lebanon from continuous incursions into the country by Israel and to protect people in the region from the christian falangist militias which were armed, trained and supported by Israel? The organisation who campaigned for the removal of a political system in Lebanon which meant that the vote of a Christian in 1 area was worth 4 votes of Muslims in another area?

Yeah, them.

Nice revisionist history by the way, clearly downing the Hasbara juice!

10-11-2017 10:44pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You mean Hezbollah the group which began to protect Northern Lebanon from continuous incursions into the country by Israel and to protect people in the region from the christian falangist militias which were armed, trained and supported by Israel? The organisation who campaigned for the removal of a political system in Lebanon which meant that the vote of a Christian in 1 area was worth 4 votes of Muslims in another area?

Yeah, them.

Nice revisionist history by the way, clearly downing the Hasbara juice!

I see you didn't refute one accusation, just pointed to other times when you think they were really nice, so this meant their terror attacks from Buenos Aires to Bulgaria were fine out.

Oh and obviously anyone who points to them killing civilians around the world is a Zionist.

Incidentally, Israel is South of the Lebanon...

A Little Pony · 10-11-2017 10:50pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Hezbollah, the terrorist anti Semitic group dedicated to the obliteration of Israel, the group that has bombed cultural centres, airplanes and busses to kill civilians, as well as assassinating democratically elected political figures in Lebanon...is a democratic organisation?

You're having a laugh!

You mean Hezbollah the group which began to protect Northern Lebanon from continuous incursions into the country by Israel and to protect people in the region from the christian falangist militias which were armed, trained and supported by Israel? The organisation who campaigned for the removal of a political system in Lebanon which meant that the vote of a Christian in 1 area was worth 4 votes of Muslims in another area?

Yeah, them.

Nice revisionist history by the way, clearly downing the Hasbara juice!

Christians standing up for themselves, how dare they. Good for them in that **** hole part of the world.

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 10:53pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Christians standing up for themselves, how dare they. Good for them in that **** hole part of the world.

You know that the Christian minorities in southeast and northern Lebanon are some of the most Ardent supporters of Hezbollah, right?

Christians weren't "sticking up for themselves" falangits were rigging elections so they could keep power and continue to oppress other ethnic and religious groups. But as you were.

Mutant z · 10-11-2017 10:58pm

I just wish Saudi could just disappear of the face of the world it would be better for all our sakes they over nothing but carnage to this planet.

server down · 10-11-2017 10:59pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You know that the Christian minorities in southeast and northern Lebanon are some of the most Ardent supporters of Hezbollah, right?

Christians weren't "sticking up for themselves" falangits were rigging elections so they could keep power and continue to oppress tiger ethnic and religious groups. But as you were.

I don’t think these guys know much of what’s goung on.

Anyway Saudi Arabiais clearly worse than Iran. In all ways. Despite what the neo conservatives manage to convince themselves and their minions.

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:00pm

server down wrote: »

I don’t think these guys know much of what’s goung on.

Anyway Saudi Arabiais clearly worse than Iran. In all ways. Despite what the neo conservatives manage to convince themselves and their minions.

Murika (and proxies) = Gud. Yeehaw freedums.

That's about the height of their analysis on these issues.

A Little Pony · 10-11-2017 11:01pm

Mutant z wrote: »

I just wish Saudi could just disappear of the face of the world it would be better for all our sakes they over nothing but carnage to this planet.

Once the oil runs out they will have to make fundamental changes.

Gatling · 10-11-2017 11:05pm

server down wrote: »

I don’t think these guys know much of what’s goung on.

Anyway Saudi Arabiais clearly worse than Iran. In all ways. Despite what the neo conservatives manage to convince themselves and their minions.

There both as bad as each other but it's going to come to a head at some point ,
Could be a very dangerous situation for both but you get the feeling that it's going to come down to who's got the best backers in an all out war

10-11-2017 11:11pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Murika (and proxies) = Gud. Yeehaw freedums.

That's about the height of their analysis on these issues.

In fairness, you are the one who spoke of Israeli incursions into North Lebanon!

I don't think you can be too damning of any analysis by others...

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:12pm

Gatling wrote: »

There both as bad as each other but it's going to come to a head at some point ,
Could be a very dangerous situation for both but you get the feeling that it's going to come down to who's got the best backers in an all out war

You just see impending war everywhere you look because of your weird romanticism of all things. military and sycophantic support of all things US/UK in these regards.

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:15pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fairness, you are the one who spoke of Israeli incursions into North Lebanon!

I don't think you can be too damning of any analysis by others...

The had incursions into north Lebanon often. They established a proxy in the south, that doesn't mean they didn't have a goo for sending boys across the border.

Gatling · 10-11-2017 11:15pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You just see impending war everywhere you look because of your weird romanticism of all things. military and sycophantic support of all things US/UK in these regards.

No wrong but hey not your not the first to make the claims ......

So since when is Iran the bastion of humanity

Rumpy Pumpy · 10-11-2017 11:16pm

There should be some version of 'Godwin's Law' for morons who try and get a dig in at Israel in any debate about geopolitics.

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:17pm

Gatling wrote: »

No wrong but hey not your not the first to make the claims ......

So since when is Iran the bastion of humanity

Never claimed they were.

I don't think Iran or by extension Hezbollah are benign harmless organisations. I just find Saudi claiming a moral high ground on anything a bit galling considering their exportation of Wahabist extremism, their passivity in the funding of terrorism by their filling class and stuff like the current bombardment and blockade and resultant impending famine in Yemen l, on top of all the human rights abuses, civil rights denials and general c*ntishness.

But because Saudi are in team murkia there are many in the media and online who will unquestioningly cheer them on when they have a go a big bad Iran.

aligator_am · 10-11-2017 11:22pm

Honestly, I think if it comes down to an actual shooting war, Iran will demolish them, assuming Israel doesn't come to the Saudi's aid.

Even if Iran is at the stage where they are ready to finish off the Saudis I honestly don't think the Yanks, Brits, French etc. will allow it to happen.

Gatling · 10-11-2017 11:27pm

aligator_am wrote: »

Honestly, I think if it comes down to an actual shooting war, Iran will demolish them, assuming Israel doesn't come to the Saudi's aid.

Even if Iran is at the stage where they are ready to finish off the Saudis I honestly don't think the Yanks, Brits, French etc. will allow it to happen.

This is the big question , Iran and hizbollah Vs a combined Arab coalition and Israel and the western states it doesn't bode well ,it's all well having small guerilla engagements like seen in Gaza and so on but sooner or later you have to commit major forces to fight , which one side cant offer any real protection from the air or naval forces .

Ipso · 10-11-2017 11:28pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Never claimed they were.

I don't think Iran or by extension Hezbollah are benign harmless organisations. I just find Saudi claiming a moral high ground on anything a bit galling considering their exportation of Wahabist extremism, their passivity in the funding of terrorism by their filling class and stuff like the current bombardment and blockade and resultant impending famine in Yemen l, on top of all the human rights abuses, civil rights denials and general c*ntishness.

But because Saudi are in team murkia there are many in the media and online who will unquestioningly cheer them on when they have a go a big bad Iran.

Maybe they could kill each other, one can dream.

10-11-2017 11:29pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The had incursions into north Lebanon often. They established a proxy in the south, that doesn't mean they didn't have a goo for sending boys across the border.

You referred to protecting Northern Lebanon from continuous incursions by Israel.

Stop digging. The dogs on the street know that the incursions were in Southern Lebanon. We in Ireland have no excuse for not knowing, given the UNIFIL troops we sent to Tibnin and other areas in...Southern Lebanon. The vast bulk of the fighting took place in...Southern Lebanon. The invasions by Israel were of...Southern Lebanon. The tanks rolled into...Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah sent fighters into...Southern Lebanon. Do we need to go on?

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:30pm

aligator_am wrote: »

Honestly, I think if it comes down to an actual shooting war, Iran will demolish them, assuming Israel doesn't come to the Saudi's aid.

Even if Iran is at the stage where they are ready to finish off the Saudis I honestly don't think the Yanks, Brits, French etc. will allow it to happen.

Iran won't invade anywhere, they'll defend their borders and make it awkward for Saudi et Al. The country is awkward to invade because of the geographical conditions, once they can control their airspace with Russia's help they'll hold their borders easily.
They'd have no interest in "finishing off" Saudi, they'll just bombard from afar and try defend their position.

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:34pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You referred to protecting Southern Lebanon from continuous incursions by Israel.

Stop digging. The dogs on the street know that the incursions were in Southern Lebanon. We in Ireland have no excuse for not knowing, given the UNIFIL troops we sent to Tibnin and other areas in...Southern Lebanon. The vast bulk of the fighting took place in...Southern Lebanon. The invasions by Israel were of...Southern Lebanon. The tanks rolled into...Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah sent fighters into...Southern Lebanon. Do we need to go on?

I'm sorry, but the invasion was in the south. There were numerous movements of troops over the border from 78 to 2000, not only in the south. The dog on the street knows that, as you'd say. Israel invaded the south and pushed north. They were contained to the south and west by local resistance, they didn't just stop when they hit Beirut.

Stop digging.

aligator_am · 10-11-2017 11:38pm

Gatling wrote: »

This is the big question , Iran and hizbollah Vs a combined Arab coalition and Israel and the western states it doesn't bode well ,it's all well having small guerilla engagements like seen in Gaza and so on but sooner or later you have to commit major forces to fight , which one side cant offer any real protection from the air or naval forces .

I think it's all sabre rattling on both sides, doubt anything will come from it.

The Saudis have the best of gear but from what I can see they're fairly useless with it, the Iranians have very likely Soviet derived gear but have been prepping for an invasion since the 1st Gulf war.

Assuming that Stuxnet doesn't affect their troops or tanks then they'll be a very difficult opponent to beat.

I think the Israelis are sort of jammed here, they don't like either player but I can see them siding with the Saudis, even though they're crackpots, they serve Israel's interest, last thing they want is a well armed, well organised and well lead Iran.

10-11-2017 11:40pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I'm sorry, but the invasion was in the south. There were numerous movements of troops over the border from 78 to 2000, not only in the south. The dog on the street knows that, as you'd say. Israel invaded the south and pushed north. They were contained to the south and west by local resistance, they didn't just stop when they hit Beirut.

Stop digging.

Sure look, you continue with your belief that the main focus of the conflict was in Northern Lebanon, and everyone you sneer at but who actually has some grasp of the geography and geopolitics of the area can continue with their analysis. Is that fair?

Subcomandante Marcos · 10-11-2017 11:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure look, you continue with your belief that the main focus of the conflict was in Northern Lebanon, and everyone you sneer at but who actually has some grasp of the geography and geopolitics of the area can continue with their analysis. Is that fair?

I never said any such thing.

But carry on. Israel never sent IDF or directed malatia into Northern Lebanon. Hezbollah wasn't founded to protect the north from repeated incursions from Israel and the SLA from both sides, everything happened south and west of the Litani, because you said so, because you're clearly an expert.

Zebra3 · 10-11-2017 11:47pm

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We discussed this before, but now Isis is near defeated. The big powers in the region are now beginning to threaten each other.

Saudi Arabia has ordered its citizens to leave Lebanon immediately, escalating a regional standoff with Iran centred on the fragile state, which it claims is being run by Tehran’s proxy, Hezbollah.

The move follows a week of bellicose rhetoric from the Sunni Arab powerhouse about its Shia rival, drawing strong support from Donald Trump and Israel, all three of whom insist Iran is forging strongholds across the region.

The standoff has taken tensions between Riyadh and Tehran to new levels and raised fears that decades of distrust and manoeuvrings between the two may be building towards a military confrontation, underwritten by the Trump administration and joined by Israel.

The Saudi order for its citizens to leave, also made by the kingdom’s allies in Bahrain and Kuwait, came after the country’s foreign minister, Adel al-Jubeir, said his government would treat Lebanon as a hostile state as long as Hezbollah was in the government. He described Hezbollah’s participation in government as an “act of war” against Saudi Arabia.

The Israeli intelligence minister, Yisrael Katz, said on Thursday he believed conditions were ripe for a diplomatic offensive against Iran and Hezbollah at the United Nations, where he said Israel would seek better enforcement of a 2006 ceasefire agreement that called on Hezbollah to disarm and stay away from its border.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/10/saudi-arabia-orders-citizens-to-leave-lebanon-as-tensions-rise

Amazing that the only focus is on Iran “extending its influence”.

No mention of Israel, Saudi or US extending their influences across the Middle East.

10-11-2017 11:49pm

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I never said any such thing.

But carry on. Israel never sent IDF or directed malatia into Northern Lebanon. Hezbollah wasn't founded to protect the north from repeated incursions from Israel and the SLA from both sides, everything happened south and west of the Litani, because you said so, because you're clearly an expert.

I know more than you, but I certainly don't claim to be an expert. Had 2 siblings serve in South Lebanon during the Israeli invasions in the 80s. They'd have loved to have been in Northern Lebanon. Where you thought the action was...:)

Gatling · 10-11-2017 11:52pm

aligator_am wrote: »

I think it's all sabre rattling on both sides, doubt anything will come from it.

The Saudis have the best of gear but from what I can see they're fairly useless with it, the Iranians have very likely Soviet derived gear but have been prepping for an invasion since the 1st Gulf war.

Assuming that Stuxnet doesn't affect their troops or tanks then they'll be a very difficult opponent to beat.

Here is the problem they don't have air cover to move large amounts of troops or vehicles in the open they would be sitting ducks for most part ,
If it does come down to a shooting match I can't see Iran getting into large scale battles they have a lot to loose Israel are chomping at the bit to have a go at them ,
While Saudi isn't having it easy in Yemen can Iran defend against war on Several fronts they suffered high casualties in Syria for the most part too ,
And there has been a rumor going around the last while that country in the region took delivery of at least 2 stealth bombers recently ,we know Israel has the f35's jets but no one is willing to say who's got the bombers ,

But another issue for iran is it's population might be able to make a difference imagine a kick off and Iranians take to the streets demanding democracy again while a conflict is brewing.

There are variables that people aren't taking into account

Ghost Train · 10-11-2017 11:57pm

The BBC make the most of a quote for their headline

Saudis 'declared war on Lebanon' - Hezbollah leader

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41946310

Gatling · 11-11-2017 12:03am

Ghost Train wrote: »

The BBC make the most of a quote for their headline

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41946310

Iran are claims are laughable

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-11-2017 12:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

I know more than you, but I certainly don't claim to be an expert. Had 2 siblings serve in South Lebanon during the Israeli invasions in the 80s. They'd have loved to have been in Northern Lebanon. Where you thought the action was...:)

It's funny that you think the civil war only affected south. It's hilarious what you seem completely unaware of Israeli incursions over the northern border. For someone who knows stuff, you don't know much.

I'm sure cpl and sgt Conor's brothers told you stories, that's nice.

aligator_am · 11-11-2017 12:04am

Gatling wrote: »

Here is the problem they don't have air cover to move large amounts of troops or vehicles in the open they would be sitting ducks for most part ,
If it does come down to a shooting match I can't see Iran getting into large scale battles they have a lot to loose Israel are chomping at the bit to have a go at them ,
While Saudi isn't having it easy in Yemen can Iran defend against war on Several fronts they suffered high casualties in Syria for the most part too ,
And there has been a rumor going around the last while that country in the region took delivery of at least 2 stealth bombers recently ,we know Israel has the f35's jets but no one is willing to say who's got the bombers ,

But another issue for iran is it's population might be able to make a difference imagine a kick off and Iranians take to the streets demanding democracy again while a conflict is brewing.

There are variables that people aren't taking into account

In fairness you raise a very good point, and it's something that I'd have to research more rather than blasting on and pushing our fakery (not sure if that's a real word lol)

Something that may be worth looking at, and in fairness it may not also, but from what I've read, whatever the Russians deployed in Syria it completely negated the stealth systems that all the "allied" powers had in play, to the point where NATO were freaking out (most people presumed, meself included, that Russia tech was still stuck back in the 90's).

I'll see if I can find those reports and post links here, or even anything related to them, it's a really interesting topic.

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-11-2017 12:06am

Gatling wrote: »

Iran are claims are laughable

The president of Lebanon and other senior officials claim the prime minister is being held under house arrest by the Saudis.

This is bizarre.

11-11-2017 12:09am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's funny that you think the civil war only affected south. It's hilarious what you seem completely unaware of Israeli incursions over the northern border.

Erm...over the Lebanese Northern border is...Syria.

So, you claim Hezbollah massed in Northern Lebanon to prevent continuous Israeli incursions...over the Lebanese Northern border into Syria. Right oh.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Subcomandante Marcos · 11-11-2017 12:11am

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm...over the Lebanese Northern border is...Syria.

I'm deliriously tired right now... I meant south. This is a left right up down fail.

Zebra3 · 11-11-2017 3:17am

Will all of this finally see the love affair of the Jewish terrorist state and the most extremist Islamic terrorist state become a public thing?

Maybe they’ll even start going steady.

NIMAN · 11-11-2017 3:22am

Hope I'm not offending anyone here, but I couldn't give a monkeys if these two blow the hell out of each other.

Saudi Arabia and Iran war talk!

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