The GAA, the future and itâ€™s choices and options

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 10:47pm

LeoB wrote: »

I dont care if Dublin field 10 or twenty teams to be honest so long as it is A, B, C etc.
The best and most entertaining quotes I see on Twitter, facebook or Boards are from our good country folk. The bitterness is unbelievable from some. Its no wonder there is such a divide and a growing hatred towards one or two counties.

In previous posts in another thread I tipped Mayo and Tyrone to meet in AI final. Thought Mayo had timed it to perfection. Alas I was wrong. Now did Mayo bottle it on the field or on the line? Im not sure. But Kerry or Tyrone in that position would now be all Ireland champions..

Typical Dublin dismissive mentality - 'Oh yis bottled it'

No when you haven't every advantage in your favour the margin for error is virtually zero particular when you look at the respective benches, Rochford deserves huge credit for what he has done bar 1 questionable goalkeeping issue last year (although when the odds are stacked against you , gambles have to be made)

Gavin made more mistakes this year but because he has a Juggernaut panel and backroom team they got covered up, having Joe did't hurt either

Re:hatred no normal counties fans would give two hoots about All Stars and other such trivial awards but I guess that is the Soccer Mentality and they don't understand what the GAA stands for......

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 10:50pm

Dots1982 wrote: »

The same yawn inducing point scoring debates and denials of the bleeding obvious.

The debate boils down to one thing.

If Dublin Domination is good for the GAA, the GAA will continue to support it. If Dublin Domination is bad for the GAA, the GAA will look to end it.

That is why the Super 8 Gimmick was invented to make up for the losses in the Leinster Championship which was for years a massive €€€€€€€ earner

However, people aren't fools and can see this monopoly they have created not the Dublin CB who would have done what any CB would do and take everything they can get.

blanch152 · 08-11-2017 11:07pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Hard to say. Are they given money? Probably not. Are they given everything soft/free which in any other walk of life would be frowned upon? Probably.

More lies being thrown around.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What i do find interesting is of all the great young dublin footballers coming out, not a single one has chanced their arm at aussie rules. When you consider that many are perfectly suited to it, you would have to wonder how not a single one has gone.
Also, id be interested to know what sort of work c kilkenny has had since his return from his short stint out there.

You contradict yourself there by saying none of the footballers chanced Aussie Rules but then mentioning Kilkenny. He went down under, couldn't hack it, came home.

James McCarthy trialled down under in 2009 but didn't make it.

You seem to have forgotten about Jim and Brian Stynes.

The bitterness runs deep in some of the Mayo supporters, but what I find interesting is that there is always an excuse for Mayo's failure.

Bonniedog · 08-11-2017 11:08pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Hard to say. Are they given money? Probably not. Are they given everything soft/free which in any other walk of life would be frowned upon? Probably.

What i do find interesting is of all the great young dublin footballers coming out, not a single one has chanced their arm at aussie rules. When you consider that many are perfectly suited to it, you would have to wonder how not a single one has gone.
Also, id be interested to know what sort of work c kilkenny has had since his return from his short stint out there.

So basicallyin a sleeveen manner you are claiming that Dublin players are being paid.

Have the balls to say it straight.

How much would Cillian need to be getting to score soft frees :-)

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 11:21pm

blanch152 wrote: »

More lies being thrown around.

You contradict yourself there by saying none of the footballers chanced Aussie Rules but then mentioning Kilkenny. He went down under, couldn't hack it, came home.

James McCarthy trialled down under in 2009 but didn't make it.

You seem to have forgotten about Jim and Brian Stynes.

The bitterness runs deep in some of the Mayo supporters, but what I find interesting is that there is always an excuse for Mayo's failure.

So the most athletic team in the history of Gaelic Games and yet none of them have joined in the AFL and only 2 out of 26 in history (none since 1990) despite having a third of the population and that isn't strange at all shure........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_experiment#List_of_Irish_sportsmen_linked_with_the_VFL.2FAFL

People respect what Mayo have done given the disadvantages they face and the mental baggage of not having won it since 51 but what would a Dublin 'GAA fan' know about respect or history of the game

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html This is an excellent article and perfectly highlights the obstacles that Dublin would never countenance of having to overcome just to compete

blanch152 · 08-11-2017 11:48pm

TrueGael wrote: »

So the most athletic team in the history of Gaelic Games and yet none of them have joined in the AFL and only 2 out of 26 in history (none since 1990) despite having a third of the population and that isn't strange at all shure........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_experiment#List_of_Irish_sportsmen_linked_with_the_VFL.2FAFL

People respect what Mayo have done given the disadvantages they face and the mental baggage of not having won it since 51 but what would a Dublin 'GAA fan' know about respect or history of the game

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html This is an excellent article and perfectly highlights the obstacles that Dublin would never countenance of having to overcome just to compete

As I said, there is always an excuse for Mayo's failure. The article in the Examiner sums it up.

LeoB · 08-11-2017 11:51pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I appreciate the effort you put into your post there, but i have to repeat the point - competition from other sports is relative. Dublin have over 10 times the average population so they are going to have more clubs in every sport -
10 times more at a minimum. However you are trying to say that this equats to more of a draw, but the data you are providing doesnt prove this.

Re replicating a county, any of kerry tyrone or mayo would be the ones to adopt. Personally id go for mayo, as they have the lowest population yet have been the most consistantly competitive of the 3 in this decade. I accept they have a debt, but i see no issue with how it came about - anyone building and maintaining their own decent sized stadium are going to need a large outlay all at once.
Kerry is obviously the standard bearer, but they have a culture of gaa that would take a long time to develop.

I dont accept what you say about the playing numbers. You need to be around the scene to see for yourself what the pressure is like on the ground for clubs. My club is not in that position but I see other clubs in Dublin who deserve whatever Croke park give them and more for what they do in their communities, I wouldnt like some of them but I know what they do for boys and girls and it is far more important than an All-Ireland title.

I would have thought Tyrone had the smallest playing numbers, not population and I know about their coaching structures. I would say they have the most skilled set of players in the country. I felt all was not good with them when they played Dublin. They had no pep in their step at all and so unlike them they were arguing on the pitch. I also commented at end of final Mayo lost the game on the line. No one is going to tell me or convince me otherwise. They fckd up. Now try and tell me Dublin are that much better than Mayo!! They arent 2 points seperate them over 250 minutes of football. And in each game Mayo could easily have won.

It comes back again to basic skills and Dublin players on the day showed brilliant skill and composure to win the game.

tritium · 08-11-2017 11:59pm

TrueGael wrote: »

So the most athletic team in the history of Gaelic Games and yet none of them have joined in the AFL and only 2 out of 26 in history (none since 1990) despite having a third of the population and that isn't strange at all shure........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_experiment#List_of_Irish_sportsmen_linked_with_the_VFL.2FAFL

People respect what Mayo have done given the disadvantages they face and the mental baggage of not having won it since 51 but what would a Dublin 'GAA fan' know about respect or history of the game

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/the-biggest-obstacle-between-mayo-and-glory-their-location-424072.html This is an excellent article and perfectly highlights the obstacles that Dublin would never countenance of having to overcome just to compete

Ok, I'm out of this, you genuinely need help

TrueGael · 09-11-2017 12:00am

I dont accept what you say about the playing numbers. You need to be around the scene to see for yourself what the pressure is like on the ground for clubs. My club is not in that position but I see other clubs in Dublin who deserve whatever Croke park give them and more for what they do in their communities, I wouldnt like some of them but I know what they do for boys and girls and it is far more important than an All-Ireland title.

What about the little boys and girls in Cork, Galway, Limerick & Belfast do they not deserve a bone?

I would have thought Tyrone had the smallest playing numbers, not population and I know about their coaching structures. I would say they have the most skilled set of players in the country. I felt all was not good with them when they played Dublin. They had no pep in their step at all and so unlike them they were arguing on the pitch. I also commented at end of final Mayo lost the game on the line. No one is going to tell me or convince me otherwise. They fckd up. Now try and tell me Dublin are that much better than Mayo!! They arent 2 points seperate them over 250 minutes of football. And in each game Mayo could easily have won.

It comes back again to basic skills and Dublin players on the day showed brilliant skill and composure to win the game.

Dublin won because of the sheer numbers they have means they have a bench which isn't weaker than the players they are replacing and because they receive world-class coaching from when they are picked up by the underage IC system at 13/14, mayo at absolute best are picking from 17 players and if any of them are out of form/injured they are screwed, Rochford got more decisions right but not enough to win Tyrone had similar athleticism to Dublin but were blown away strength wise

Bonniedog · 09-11-2017 12:31am

TrueGael wrote: »

what would a Dublin 'GAA fan' know about respect or history of the game

What we would know is that along with the Munster counties and a few in Leinster we kept the whole thing going when others obeyed the order to shut the GAA down in 1892. Some counties didn't resurface for 20/30 years after the Parnell downfall. No coincidence that our county ground is called after him.

kilns · 09-11-2017 11:15am

This old argument that Dublin are far superior due to sheer weight of numbers, while of course is an advantage but it is far from the reason. The main reason Dublin are in a position they are in now is because of good planning and priorities. The areas which required the most attention were identified and this was not the senior teams, this was providing the best coaching they could to school children. If people cannot accept and admire this then they have to look at themselves. This plan which was put in place a long long time ago is now reaping the benefits and the sponsorship that has followed. Do you think if they were a team reaching only quarter finals year after year AIG would get involved?
The solution is not the breakup of Dublin, the solution is to ensure all other counties follow the same template which Dublin have implemented, even if in the short term it effects funding to the senior team for their warm weather training camps. The problem in many counties is that county boards are too political and nothing gets done and it descents into infighting and the senior team gets all the attention for short term success. GAA HQ should make these counties put these plans in place, yes extra funding may need to be allocated and nobody would have an issue with this but for all those with an obvious hatred of a successful Dublin team, who will contribute the a large amount of this funding through gate receipts etc?

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 2:27pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

So basicallyin a sleeveen manner you are claiming that Dublin players are being paid.

Have the balls to say it straight.

How much would Cillian need to be getting to score soft frees :-)

No Im not, Im answering the question you asked. I never said they were paid at all. Id love to see the full expense list of the last 10 years all the same.

Any opinions on the apparent lack of interest from Dubs in playing professional sport?
Is C Kilkenny still working jobs where he can prepare himself as a professional athlete?

tritium · 09-11-2017 2:49pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No Im not, Im answering the question you asked. I never said they were paid at all. Id love to see the full expense list of the last 10 years all the same.

Any opinions on the apparent lack of interest from Dubs in playing professional sport?
Is C Kilkenny still working jobs where he can prepare himself as a professional athlete?

Not quite sure what you mean. For interest heres a list of jobs Dublin players have from Joe.ie

Steven Cluxton - Teacher.
Philly McMahon - Business.
Cian O’Sullivan - Tax Consultant PWC.
Michael Fitzsimons - Physiotherapist.
Jonny Cooper - Student recruitment, DCU.
John Small - Account officer, Digicom Office technology.
Eric Lowndes - Teacher.
Brian Fenton - Physiotherapist, Beaumount Hospital.
James McCarthy -Bank rep.
Ciarán Kilkenny - Student St Pat's Drumcondra.
Con O’Callaghan - Student, UCD.
Jack McCaffrey - Student, UCD.
Paul Mannion - Digital innovation student, UCD.
Paddy Andrews - Dealer in stockbrokers.
Dean Rock - Leisure centre executive, Stewarts sports centre, Palmerstown.
Kevin McManamon - Sports psychology consultant.

Seems pretty routine tbh. Wouldnt be very different to the jobs of say the mayo team

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-sfc-final-mayo-player-profiles-1.2795387%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=0ahUKEwi0i5nC0LHXAhXCKsAKHa9gBoAQFghUMAY&usg=AOvVaw2KSLRZxE_kz20Il-QhvcqA&ampcf=1

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 3:02pm

tritium wrote: »

Not quite sure what you mean. For interest heres a list of jobs Dublin players have from Joe.ie

Steven Cluxton - Teacher.
Philly McMahon - Business.
Cian O’Sullivan - Tax Consultant PWC.
Michael Fitzsimons - Physiotherapist.
Jonny Cooper - Student recruitment, DCU.
John Small - Account officer, Digicom Office technology.
Eric Lowndes - Teacher.
Brian Fenton - Physiotherapist, Beaumount Hospital.
James McCarthy -Bank rep.
Ciarán Kilkenny - Student St Pat's Drumcondra.
Con O’Callaghan - Student, UCD.
Jack McCaffrey - Student, UCD.
Paul Mannion - Digital innovation student, UCD.
Paddy Andrews - Dealer in stockbrokers.
Dean Rock - Leisure centre executive, Stewarts sports centre, Palmerstown.
Kevin McManamon - Sports psychology consultant.

Seems pretty routine tbh. Wouldnt be very different to the jobs of say the mayo team

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-sfc-final-mayo-player-profiles-1.2795387%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=0ahUKEwi0i5nC0LHXAhXCKsAKHa9gBoAQFghUMAY&usg=AOvVaw2KSLRZxE_kz20Il-QhvcqA&ampcf=1

Not sure what you think this proves?

flasher0030 · 09-11-2017 3:04pm

kilns wrote: »

This old argument that Dublin are far superior due to sheer weight of numbers, while of course is an advantage but it is far from the reason. The main reason Dublin are in a position they are in now is because of good planning and priorities. The areas which required the most attention were identified and this was not the senior teams, this was providing the best coaching they could to school children. If people cannot accept and admire this then they have to look at themselves. This plan which was put in place a long long time ago is now reaping the benefits and the sponsorship that has followed. Do you think if they were a team reaching only quarter finals year after year AIG would get involved?
The solution is not the breakup of Dublin, the solution is to ensure all other counties follow the same template which Dublin have implemented, even if in the short term it effects funding to the senior team for their warm weather training camps. The problem in many counties is that county boards are too political and nothing gets done and it descents into infighting and the senior team gets all the attention for short term success. GAA HQ should make these counties put these plans in place, yes extra funding may need to be allocated and nobody would have an issue with this but for all those with an obvious hatred of a successful Dublin team, who will contribute the a large amount of this funding through gate receipts etc?

Would the €6m that Dublin GAA received in the years up to 2011 not have played a massive role. Or was it just a coincidence that after those 6 years that they received €1m per year, that the Dublin team found form and won Sam in 5 out of the past 7 years. So nothing to do with population or money. But instead its this hard work, pulling together, comradeship, grassroot level and similar type of bile that is spewed to try to camouflage over the truth, that Dublin GAA wasn’t in a great place 12 years ago. And the powers that be (Bertie, Sean Kelly etc.) felt they needed a helping leg-up. Dublin GAA gladly took this freebe, but instead of creating a leveller playing field, Dublin GAA developed enormously. And that’s the part where the hard work by many comes in. But that was kick-started in the first place by the money available to get people interested in the project.

The question is – where is the million a year for the other counties, now that Dublin has experienced it’s GAA boom?

tritium · 09-11-2017 3:08pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Not sure what you think this proves?

Well lets see...

That none of them appear to have sweet deal jobs just to help them prepare as professional athletes

That the jobs they have are very similar to other gaa players

That many of them have stable careers that would make a move abriad much less attractive

Im sure i couls find a few other self evident nuggets in there...

Clearer?

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 3:10pm

kilns wrote: »

This old argument that Dublin are far superior due to sheer weight of numbers, while of course is an advantage but it is far from the reason. The main reason Dublin are in a position they are in now is because of good planning and priorities. The areas which required the most attention were identified and this was not the senior teams, this was providing the best coaching they could to school children. If people cannot accept and admire this then they have to look at themselves. This plan which was put in place a long long time ago is now reaping the benefits and the sponsorship that has followed. Do you think if they were a team reaching only quarter finals year after year AIG would get involved?
The solution is not the breakup of Dublin, the solution is to ensure all other counties follow the same template which Dublin have implemented, even if in the short term it effects funding to the senior team for their warm weather training camps. The problem in many counties is that county boards are too political and nothing gets done and it descents into infighting and the senior team gets all the attention for short term success. GAA HQ should make these counties put these plans in place, yes extra funding may need to be allocated and nobody would have an issue with this but for all those with an obvious hatred of a successful Dublin team, who will contribute the a large amount of this funding through gate receipts etc?

But are they though? Think about it. They have well over 10 times the population of ourselves for example. Multiples of our financial muscle and the best facilities on their doorstep. Yet they can only beat mayo by a point. When you look at it objectively, there is a strong argument to suggest that Dublin are in fact miles behind when it comes to structures and development.

Like how good would kerry be if they had all that dublin have?
The worrying thing is they are catching up, which in itself is a good thing, but it will undoubtedly leave the premier competition in the game in tatters.

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 3:15pm

flasher0030 wrote: »

Would the €6m that Dublin GAA received in the years up to 2011 not have played a massive role. Or was it just a coincidence that for those 6 years that they received €1m per year, that the Dublin team found form and won Sam in 5 out of the past 7 years. So nothing to do with population or money. But instead its this hard work, pulling together, comradeship, grassroot level and similar type of bile that is spewed to try to camouflage over the truth, that Dublin GAA wasn’t in a great place 12 years ago. And the powers that be (Bertie, Sean Kelly etc.) felt they needed a helping leg-up. Dublin GAA gladly took this freebe, but instead of creating a leveller playing field, Dublin GAA developed enormously. And that’s the part where the hard work by many comes in. But that was kick-started in the first place by the money available to get people interested in the project.

The question is – where is the million a year for the other counties, now that Dublin has experienced it’s GAA boom?

Spot on. This hard work spiel is in fact the opportunity of a lifetime that every other county would crawl over hot coals to get near.

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 3:21pm

tritium wrote: »

Well lets see...

That none of them appear to have sweet deal jobs just to help them prepare as professional athletes

That the jobs they have are very similar to other gaa players

That many of them have stable careers that would make a move abriad much less attractive

Im sure i couls find a few other self evident nuggets in there...

Clearer?

But i named kilkenny specifically because he chose to leave aussie rules and come back to ireland, in the context of the question raised about dubs never playing aussie rules since kilkenny returned home.
It wasnt a question about every single player, i was referencing his being named as a college team manager, while he was still in the college and about 20 years old.
Basically, has he worked a day since he came back from Australia is what im getting at? And is that an indicator as to why no dubs seem to go to Australia to play aussie rules full time.

tritium · 09-11-2017 3:23pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But i named kilkenny specifically because he chose to leave aussie rules and come back to ireland, in the context of the question raised about dubs never playing aussie rules since kilkenny returned home.
It wasnt a question about every single player, i was referencing his being named as a college team manager, while he was still in the college and about 20 years old.
Basically, has he worked a day since he came back from Australia is what im getting at? And is that an indicator as to why no dubs seem to go to Australia to play aussie rules full time.

Hes listed as a student (i believe studying to be a teacher though someone may correct me there). Same as quite a few of both the Dublin and Mayo panels (and not unusual for a lad his age)

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 3:32pm

tritium wrote: »

Hes listed as a student (i believe studying to be a teacher though someone may correct me there). Same as quite a few of both the Dublin and Mayo panels (and not unusual for a lad his age)

Doesn't really answer the question though. Students have to work don't they? Is he working down in the local centra or up all hours working in some nightclub like a lot of students?
Do many students get to manage their college team?

I accept we need more time to make a full judgement on it, and indeed even as a teacher, there are ways and means around going in and working the hours like every other teacher if the right people are in your corner, so we may never know for sure. But it is definitely something worth keeping an eye on, and in the context of how Dublin are managing to avoid losing players, it is a relevant point.

Have you any opinions on how they are doing it yourself?
Structures no doubt.. Is there anything they cant do?!

tritium · 09-11-2017 3:40pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Doesn't really answer the question though. Students have to work don't they? Is he working down in the local centra or up all hours working in some nightclub like a lot of students?
Do many students get to manage their college team?

I accept we need more time to make a full judgement on it, and indeed even as a teacher, there are ways and means around going in and working the hours like every other teacher if the right people are in your corner, so we may never know for sure. But it is definitely something worth keeping an eye on, and in the context of how Dublin are managing to avoid losing players, it is a relevant point.

Have you any opinions on how they are doing it yourself?
Structures no doubt.. Is there anything they cant do?!

Is there any reason youre focusing on the dublin players for this when the employment profile of the mayo panel is so similar?

Edit: is this the management role youre referring to

http://www.the42.ie/ciaran-kilkenny-2493328-Dec2015/

Is it actually paid or just another ask on the lads time? How much does it pay (ballpark will do)?

brocbrocach · 09-11-2017 3:41pm

Dublin has 12 adult male football divisions.
I think kerry has 5 and Mayo 6.

So, speaking very roughly about the SFC you could say that Dublin has about double the playing population of those two intercounty rivals. That's far more relevant than this talk of ten times the population v supertastic coaching.
Something that skews that Dublin figure though is the huge amount of expat culchies playing there, from intercounty lads at senior level to old lads keeping fit in Div 11 North.
It'd be interesting to compare some of the other big counties, Cork, Galway, Donegal.

Bonniedog · 09-11-2017 3:45pm

Why would any Dublin player want to play that abomination of AFL?

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 3:53pm

tritium wrote: »

Is there any reason youre focusing on the dublin players for this when the employment profile of the mayo panel is so similar?

Edit: is this the management role youre referring to

http://www.the42.ie/ciaran-kilkenny-2493328-Dec2015/

Is it actually paid or just another ask on the lads time? How much does it pay (ballpark will do)?

I already outlined the reason - since Kilkenny was tempted back to Ireland, no other Dublin player has gone to Australia. Im trying to have a discussion around that topic. Namely, how was he tempted back, and what is keeping them all at home when Mayo Kerry and a few more are losing players every second year.
Surely you would be very naïve to assume it is all just a coincidence and never ask a question? Why so defensive?

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 4:03pm

brocbrocach wrote: »

Dublin has 12 adult male football divisions.
I think kerry has 5 and Mayo 6.

So, speaking very roughly about the SFC you could say that Dublin has about double the playing population of those two intercounty rivals. That's far more relevant than this talk of ten times the population v supertastic coaching.
Something that skews that Dublin figure though is the huge amount of expat culchies playing there, from intercounty lads at senior level to old lads keeping fit in Div 11 North.
It'd be interesting to compare some of the other big counties, Cork, Galway, Donegal.

I believe they have more teams in the divisions also, so it would be a bit more than that.
I think you have to factor in the population because that is still a potential number. Like there is drop-off in every county. It is the job of that county to get the level of participation up. Dublin might be a bit of a basket case on that front, but the potential is still there so you cant ignore it. To me the obvious answer to more participation is more access to football at the top level.

Re the 'culchies' playing league football in a different county, that happens in cork/galway etc too. Similarly you have to factor in the number of dubs settled outside Dublin, but sending their young lads up playing to Dublin.

Bonniedog · 09-11-2017 4:04pm

Why would someone not want to be part of the greatest football team in history rather than playing that silly game in Oz?

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 4:05pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Why would any Dublin player want to play that abomination of AFL?

To make a lot of money being a professional sportsperson?
It seems to appeal to lads from everywhere else...

tritium · 09-11-2017 4:06pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I already outlined the reason - since Kilkenny was tempted back to Ireland, no other Dublin player has gone to Australia. Im trying to have a discussion around that topic. Namely, how was he tempted back, and what is keeping them all at home when Mayo Kerry and a few more are losing players every second year.
Surely you would be very naïve to assume it is all just a coincidence and never ask a question? Why so defensive?

Im actually not being defensive. I asked you is it a paid role since you'd made so much of it so i assumed youd have that detail -as far as i can see his occupation is full time student. As i understood it kilkenny tried out oz and just didnt like it, its not as if there was sime under the counter offer to stop him going in the first place. Again if you know otherwise please share it

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 4:09pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Why would someone not want to be part of the greatest football team in history rather than playing that silly game in Oz?

Well Kilkenny did, until he was coaxed back.
McCaffrey saw fit to go to the combine, made a big impression, but it stopped dead after that.
Until they find a way to get to kerry in the 1970s, I guess we will never know.

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 4:16pm

tritium wrote: »

Im actually not being defensive. I asked you is it a paid role since you'd made so much of it so i assumed youd have that detail -as far as i can see his occupation is full time student. As i understood it kilkenny tried out oz and just didnt like it, its not as if there was sime under the counter offer to stop him going in the first place. Again if you know otherwise please share it

If I knew for sure I would tell you. However there is nothing wrong with examining the facts we have and discussing the thing. You seem at pains to shut that discussion down. It's very existence seems to make you uneasy.

Personally I think that if Dublin have found a way to keep guys at home they should share it with us all so that we can all keep our players. GAA ethos - something you should maybe familiarise yourself with?

kilns · 09-11-2017 5:52pm

I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.
As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget
Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.
Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out. I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 6:01pm

kilns wrote: »

I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.
As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget
Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.
Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out. I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

You are daft if you think the rest of the gaa need Dublin. Dublin have 1/5 of the population of the island of Ireland. Why would 1/5 of the population be so important to the other 4/5? The gaa would be fine without any one county, Dublin included.
As for having things right, being able to be slightly ahead of counties with less than 10th of your population is hardly getting things right man. Something to consider before you start sneering about warm weather training camps...

Maybe think before you speak now and again.

kilns · 09-11-2017 6:04pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.
As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget
Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.
Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out. I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

You are daft if you think the rest of the gaa need Dublin. Dublin have 1/5 of the population of the island of Ireland. Why would 1/5 of the population be so important to the other 4/5? The gaa would be fine without any one county, Dublin included.
As for having things right, being able to be slightly ahead of counties with less than 10th of your population is hardly getting things right man. Something to consider before you start sneering about warm weather training camps...

Maybe think before you speak now and again.

I remember you, every thread descends into a mess when you are involved as you have an irrational hatred of everything Dublin.
Mods should close this thread before he starts

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 6:07pm

kilns wrote: »

I remember you, every thread descends into a mess when you are involved as you have an irrational hatred of everything Dublin.
Mods should close this thread before he starts

You are the guy who keeps talking about Mayo on a thread about Dublin's financial clout man. I want to discuss the topic, you want to attack my county.

Sounds like you are judging me by your own standards

TrueGael · 09-11-2017 6:10pm

I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.

That is like saying Man City had to foresight to put things in place for Pep 2/3 years before he came which has led to their domination which ignores the financial cost of doing so

As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget

Mayo haven't the luxury of Croke Park giving them 70/80 full time coaches and world class facilities to mass produce elite players, they have to make a choice and they decided to go all in with this current crop as their population means they will not produce a group like this again for a long time

Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.

That is because they are trying to keep up with a State Funded Juggernaut who have every conceivable professionals working for them - Marketing Mgr, Communications Mgr and all types of specialised Coaches , how many other counties could afford a former World Boxing Champion in the Setup, make no mistake Mayo are running to stand still

Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out. I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

Wrong again just look at the attendances the Leinster Champ got in the late 90's and early 00's and compare them to now, chalk and cheese people are voting with their feet and this will happen on a national scale at a growing rate with such inequalities in the system. The GAA IC season funds the whole operation and the Dublin Monster is killing interest in the game and revenues year after year

It is the GAA not the DGA!!!!!!!!!!!!

kilns · 09-11-2017 6:19pm

TrueGael wrote: »

I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.

That is like saying Man City had to foresight to put things in place for Pep 2/3 years before he came which has led to their domination which ignores the financial cost of doing so have Dublin bought players ? Have they poached the best young players from around the county?

As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget

Mayo haven't the luxury of Croke Park giving them 70/80 full time coaches and world class facilities to mass produce elite players, they have to make a choice and they decided to go all in with this current crop as their population means they will not produce a group like this again for a long time i ask for proportions. Just thought it would interesting as i stated so many counties eye short term success over long term

Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.

That is because they are trying to keep up with a State Funded Juggernaut who have every conceivable professionals working for them - Marketing Mgr, Communications Mgr and all types of specialised Coaches , how many other counties could afford a former World Boxing Champion in the Setup, make no mistake Mayo are running to stand still are Dublin receiving state funding currently? Is Bernard Dunne being paid ???

Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out. I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

Wrong again just look at the attendances the Leinster Champ got in the late 90's and early 00's and compare them to now, chalk and cheese people are voting with their feet and this will happen on a national scale at a growing rate with such inequalities in the system. The GAA IC season funds the whole operation and the Dublin Monster is killing interest in the game and revenues year after year like it or not Dublin generates money which can be distributed throughout the GAA

It is the GAA not the DGA!!!!!!!!!!!!

its not that ABDGAA

TrueGael · 09-11-2017 6:41pm

kilns wrote: »

its not that ABDGAA

Well considering how the GAA have laid everything on a plate for Dublin (funding, COE, home advantage in perpetuity and so on) it certainly can't be called that.........

MayoAreMagic · 09-11-2017 6:46pm

kilns wrote: »

its not that ABDGAA

Ah here, give the victim bit a break will you?

kilns · 09-11-2017 6:54pm

Good luck lads. Im not engaging with you two as it will descend into a farce like it usually does

TrueGael · 09-11-2017 7:04pm

You two?

No as mentioned already we are the same poster as how could anyone accuse the 'Saviours of the Game' of having every possible competitive advantage over the rest it is just god-given ability and the rest are bottling culchies'

kilns · 09-11-2017 7:17pm

I know its natural to dislike the city team etc etc

But i guess what irritates people is posters that refuse to give Dublin GAA any credit for the current success. Money doesnt make Diarmuid Connolly the most naturally gifted player out there or pay for a radar on Cluxtons foot. They are blessed with a group of exceptionally talented players this level will not last but they will always be up there due to the structures in place and population. Go to any club in Dublin on a Saturday morning and it would make you proud seeing 5,6,7 year olds out learning skills from mostly volunteers and thats what its all about at the end of the day.

Bonniedog · 09-11-2017 7:24pm

Taste the bitterness!

blanch152 · 09-11-2017 7:32pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But are they though? Think about it. They have well over 10 times the population of ourselves for example. Multiples of our financial muscle and the best facilities on their doorstep. Yet they can only beat mayo by a point. When you look at it objectively, there is a strong argument to suggest that Dublin are in fact miles behind when it comes to structures and development.

Like how good would kerry be if they had all that dublin have?
The worrying thing is they are catching up, which in itself is a good thing, but it will undoubtedly leave the premier competition in the game in tatters.

I don't know how many time I have to repeatedly deal with the rubbish about the financing.

The money is spent on juvenile coaching in clubs and schools. Therefore, it goes on kids who will never play senior football for their county. The benefit it brings to the country in keeping those kids fit and physically active throughout their teenage years in incalculable.

I am fairly certain that if Mayo got the money that Dublin got, that they would waste it on warm weather training camps for the senior team, makey-up jobs in Castlebar for the lads, and ultimately this might get them one All-Ireland but would destroy the game within the county.

Unfortunately, there are too many people on here like yourself, whose sole focus is the county game and the All-Ireland and All-Stars. Maybe, if you got involved in the club scene or watched a few juvenile games, you might get an idea of how money should be spent.

blanch152 · 09-11-2017 7:35pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To make a lot of money being a professional sportsperson?
It seems to appeal to lads from everywhere else...

Not really, there aren't that many Mayo lads playing in australia.

tritium · 09-11-2017 9:29pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If I knew for sure I would tell you. However there is nothing wrong with examining the facts we have and discussing the thing. You seem at pains to shut that discussion down. It's very existence seems to make you uneasy.

Personally I think that if Dublin have found a way to keep guys at home they should share it with us all so that we can all keep our players. GAA ethos - something you should maybe familiarise yourself with?

So you don't actually know but youre idly speculating? Is it gaa ethos to blacken someones name with snide backhand speculation too?

Since youre 'examining the facts' you must have a few non dub players that you also think look a bit dodge. You know, big athletic types who for some reason havent ended up in oz. Lets have you name them too in the interests of 'discussing the thing'. After all if other counties have players whose charactetistics are suited to afl but theyve stayed here for some reason they should share it with us all so that we can all keep our players. GAA ethos and all that...

TrueGael · 09-11-2017 11:56pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Not really, there aren't that many Mayo lads playing in australia.

There have been as many Mayo players as one would expect on average, 2 Dublin players and none since 1990 given the population is way lower than what it would be if they were a normal county

TrueGael · 10-11-2017 12:06am

kilns wrote: »

I know its natural to dislike the city team etc etc

But i guess what irritates people is posters that refuse to give Dublin GAA any credit for the current success. Money doesnt make Diarmuid Connolly the most naturally gifted player out there or pay for a radar on Cluxtons foot. They are blessed with a group of exceptionally talented players this level will not last but they will always be up there due to the structures in place and population. Go to any club in Dublin on a Saturday morning and it would make you proud seeing 5,6,7 year olds out learning skills from mostly volunteers and thats what its all about at the end of the day.

Well when Dublin fans gloat to people in their faces (both literally at games in CP and metaphorically on platforms such as Twitter and places like here) you can't expect to get 24/7 worship and praise that ye crave or that we will just cover up the facts and pretend it is a fair and equal competition

In the 'country' it is volunteers and volunteers alone that are keeping the game alive in many places having to amalgamate with 3/4 clubs just to field 1 team such is the rate of emigration that has kicked in the last 10 years

Bonniedog · 10-11-2017 12:09am

TrueGael wrote: »

There have been as many Mayo players as one would expect on average, 2 Dublin players and none since 1990 given the population is way lower than what it would be if they were a normal county

So insinuation is that Dublin players - one who has been named - were persuaded not to go or to come back by financial incentives?

That is quite a serious accusation. I know father of one chap from midlands county who went to Australia and came back, and reason had nothing to do with anything other than not breaking into a first team, and not liking the place. Stynes - a Dub who would have been part of 90s team - was one of very few to decide to stay.

LeoB · 10-11-2017 12:16am

TrueGael wrote: »

.

What about the little boys and girls in Cork, Galway, Limerick & Belfast do they not deserve a bone?

Another thick comment. Who in their right mind would begrudge any child the opportunity to get coached in any sport. I was recently in Belfast with a team and the coaching going on was top class. In 2 clubs on the Andersonstown Rd, St. Pauls and O'Donavan Rossa and on the top pitchs in Queens. The same is happening in Cork. They have G.P.Os working away in schools and clubs. Will you complain when they start to dominate hurling? and possibly football?

Dublin won because of the sheer numbers they have means they have a bench which isn't weaker than the players they are replacing and because they receive world-class coaching from when they are picked up by the underage IC system at 13/14, mayo at absolute best are picking from 17 players and if any of them are out of form/injured they are screwed, Rochford got more decisions right but not enough to win Tyrone had similar athleticism to Dublin but were blown away strength wise

It is debatable if their bench is as strong as you and other think. I know most of them from refereeing and going to games. None of them consistently dominate club games because players are properly coached and can deal with the situations. Mayo are not picking from 17 players that is another stupid comment. Mayo had outside their starting another 10-12 players nearly as good as the players who started with the exception of Keegan, Moran, Barrett, Higgins and C O'Connor. Dublin like Mayo have some players who are near impossible to replace, Cluxton, Cian O'Sullivan, Mick Fitz, Dean Rock. The other can be replaced but not by better players but by very good players.
As for Tyrone this year I said it already they were not up for this game with Dublin. Things were not good in their camp. I believe it was a mistake for Mickey Harte to stay and he only stayed because Peter the great is not ready yet.

I know a number of Dublin lads who tried out for A.F.L and simply didnt make it. Kerry have produced a number of exceptional players with great fielding ability as have Mayo, Galway and Cork. Dublin are not producing the massive big ball winning player but more all round. As the A.F.L changes in coming years you will see more of a spread of going over not necessarily big bungalow heads as their game becomes a little physical

The GAA, the future and itâ€™s choices and options

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