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The GAA, the future and it’s choices and options

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,281 ✭✭✭ doc_17


    The future of the GAA is Dublin and as a Donegal person I’ll continue to involve myself with clubs and school teams and support my county on the road. Most years we’ll have a bad year. But the odd year we might be in with a chance of making a semi.

    And I’ll keep going to games in the place where all Dublin’s home league and championship games are and supporting my own county until such time as I’m not allowed wave my county flag and ate tae and sandwiches from the back pack I could freely carry in......


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    It's no wonder the country is in such a state with all the loser mentality here.


    And doc, without being personal, and continuing the historical note, GAA in Donegal folded up shop when the bishops told them to in 1892. And between 1916 and 1922 you did almost nothing when Dublin had a an armed rebellion and at least one operation every day between 1919 and the Truce. And won a three in a row like this year at the same time. Perhaps it is in the genes :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,281 ✭✭✭ doc_17


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    It's no wonder the country is in such a state with all the loser mentality here.


    And doc, without being personal, and continuing the historical note, GAA in Donegal folded up shop when the bishops told them to in 1892. And between 1916 and 1922 you did almost nothing when Dublin had a an armed rebellion and at least one operation every day between 1919 and the Truce. And won a three in a row like this year at the same time. Perhaps it is in the genes :-)

    The most brain dead post I’ve ever seen. Congratulations. Not worthy of any serious discussion or reply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    doc_17 wrote: »
    The most brain dead post I’ve ever seen. Congratulations. Not worthy of any serious discussion or reply.


    So we are supposed to listen to all sorts of moany [email protected] about Dublin, but not allowed respond?

    You point out one inaccuracy in my post and I will close my account.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,281 ✭✭✭ doc_17


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    So we are supposed to listen to all sorts of moany [email protected] about Dublin, but not allowed respond?

    You point out one inaccuracy in my post and I will close my account.

    You said “you did almost nothing”. Incorrect. I did absolutely nothing as I wasn’t born. So whether you close your account or not I don’t reallly give a fiddlers.

    In the genes - get a grip.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Well you haven't so I won't.

    Blaming other people for your shortcomings is not a good basis for a healthy life :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,281 ✭✭✭ doc_17


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Well you haven't so I won't.

    Blaming other people for your shortcomings is not a good basis for a healthy life :-)

    Justo be clear, at no stage did I blame anyone else for any shortcomings! Stop trying to be victimised. The future of the GAA is Dublin, just be happy about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ ThunbergsAreGo


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    If you choose to read my pieces in full you should be able to see my focus is on how to make the intercounty elite game survive and prosper and is not focused on demonizing Dublin. Taking what I’ve wrote in full you should see my attention is on the future not dwelling overly on the past.

    But why focus on Dublin

    Noone has ever competed worn Cork or Kerry in Munster is it less demoralising for the other counties there to know they will never win?

    The imbalance has always been there


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,281 ✭✭✭ doc_17


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    But why focus on Dublin

    Noone has ever competed worn Cork or Kerry in Munster is it less demoralising for the other counties there to know they will never win?

    The imbalance has always been there

    I suppose though that those other counties have the hurling as well to keep their interest. But in terms of football, you’re right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    But why focus on Dublin

    Noone has ever competed worn Cork or Kerry in Munster is it less demoralising for the other counties there to know they will never win?

    The imbalance has always been there

    Because nobody else has every imaginable advantage like Dublin does.

    They have destroyed the Leinster Championship and will do the same to the AI Championship


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    doc_17 wrote: »
    Justo be clear, at no stage did I blame anyone else for any shortcomings! Stop trying to be victimised. The future of the GAA is Dublin, just be happy about it.

    I don't do being a victim, believe me! You among others are constantly referring to Dublin.

    Only "unimaginable advantage" we have is best football team ever, with posilbe exception of Kerry under Dwyer. Won't last forever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭ Dots1982


    Just checking in, wow this is a car crash.

    Lesson here - don’t feed the troll.

    Mod - do the decent thing. It’s what the men of 1916 would have wanted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    So your response to historical facts is to ask for me to be banned!

    What year was Donegal GAA founded in? When the priests let you :-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭ danganabu


    TrueGael wrote: »
    Because nobody else has every imaginable advantage like Dublin does.

    They have destroyed the Leinster Championship and will do the same to the AI Championship

    Meath, Kildare, Laois, Westmeath etc. have destroyed the Leinster Championship and have no one else to blame but themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,281 ✭✭✭ doc_17


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    I don't do being a victim, believe me! You among others are constantly referring to Dublin.

    Only "unimaginable advantage" we have is best football team ever, with posilbe exception of Kerry under Dwyer. Won't last forever.

    Please, when replying to a quote, direct it to the person that said it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    danganabu wrote: »
    Meath, Kildare, Laois, Westmeath etc. have destroyed the Leinster Championship and have no one else to blame but themselves.

    Thats like blaming Bury & Stockport for not being able to compete against and beat Man City


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Just checking in, wow this is a car crash.

    Lesson here - don’t feed the troll.

    Mod - do the decent thing. It’s what the men of 1916 would have wanted.

    In fairness, your opening post is balanced and objective. What you describe is the reality of what is in front of us. If certain people are going over the top in response, it isn't the thread that is the problem.

    I agree with a lot of what you say. I also think it is a shame that people take such a parochial view on this topic. We really need to start considering the GAA as a whole, rather than just Dublin GAA or just Mayo GAA or whoever, otherwise we are going to take what is a really good spectacle, and what could be a world class spectacle, and run it into the ground, and for no other reason than we just want our own team to win all the time. Surely I cant be the only one who finds that truly depressing...


    Also, can some people genuinely not see the difference between splitting Dublin and splitting Kilkenny or Kerry? Come on like.
    The difference is this - Kerry operate at just slightly above the average population of a county in Ireland. Kilkenny operate below the average. Therefore there is nothing that either county is doing that the majority of counties cannot also replicate. They are simply getting more out of the same resources.
    Dublin operate at over 10 times the average population. They have over double the next most populated county and almost triple the county in 3rd. How can anyone hope to replicate what they can achieve?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,382 ✭✭✭ tritium


    In fairness, your opening post is balanced and objective. What you describe is the reality of what is in front of us. If certain people are going over the top in response, it isn't the thread that is the problem.

    I agree with a lot of what you say. I also think it is a shame that people take such a parochial view on this topic. We really need to start considering the GAA as a whole, rather than just Dublin GAA or just Mayo GAA or whoever, otherwise we are going to take what is a really good spectacle, and what could be a world class spectacle, and run it into the ground, and for no other reason than we just want our own team to win all the time. Surely I cant be the only one who finds that truly depressing...

    Also, can some people genuinely not see the difference between splitting Dublin and splitting Kilkenny or Kerry? Come on like.
    The difference is this - Kerry operate at just slightly above the average population of a county in Ireland. Kilkenny operate below the average. Therefore there is nothing that either county is doing that the majority of counties cannot also replicate.

    It so simple that nonone else has managed it consistently in over a century in Kerrys case! Lets be honest here if Dublin disappeared tomorrow there would still be 1 maybe 2 counties that were streets ahead in terms of finances and playing populations. Dont believe me? How open and equitable was the AI in the years before 2011? If Tyrone hadnt been marginally more stubborn and revolutionary than this currwnt Mayo team it would have been an absolute procession. Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison?

    They are simply getting more out of the same resources.

    Kerry are one of the finest examples of professionalisn (in the good sense of the word) in the GAA. They have a network established that will let them pull in a mint from events stateside, and have a long established sponsorship to exploit their brand. Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, the likes of kerry did, and did it brilliantly. They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html

    Dublin operate at over 10 times the average population. They have over double the next most populated county and almost triple the county in 3rd. How can anyone hope to replicate what they can achieve?

    And what exactly have Dublin achieved? Before 2011 they couldnt get a sniff of an AI since 95. It was 83 before that. Why would any team with serious aspirations set a benchmark of every 20 years or so? Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close.

    This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else. That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles.

    If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. You have to even out the spending advantage that Mayo currently enjoy. Everyone would have to have the same (you'd probably also need to abolish the county based structure completely but lets keep it simple for now) How exactly would you feel about hobbling all the big teams?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭ LeoB


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Thanks for the compliment.

    If counties can compete regardless of population why do only countries of over 40 million people only win the World Cup?

    I cant answer that but Counties with smaller populations than Dublin have won the All-ireland in the last 25years. And others should have won it..

    Galway Meath,Cork Kerry, Armagh, Down Donegal Tyrone have all won and Mayo should have 3 or 4. Kildare who had huge investment should have won one. The Ulster counties have fairly small playing populations but they have superb coaching structures (even if we think they are negative) Something else that has held counties back is the in house fighting. It is quite pathetic the splits in some counties where players from rival clubs hardly talk. I have witnessed this and heard many stories of the cliques where players outside the clique walk away or swap codes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,248 ✭✭✭ LeoB


    TrueGael wrote: »
    Because nobody else has every imaginable advantage like Dublin does.

    They have destroyed the Leinster Championship and will do the same to the AI Championship

    Jeasus that is one of the silliest comments I have read in a while apart from the after hours forum.

    If you speak to people in these other Leinster counties they have only themselves to blame and most will admit it. They have crap structures, there is vitriolic hatred in some counties among clubs and no matter what happens with Dublin until these counties sort themselves out nothing will change.

    This population thing sure Dublin have over 1,000,000 people. Dublin also has 15 A.I.L Rugby clubs, 7 L.O.I soccer clubs, 14 All-Ireland cricket clubs and this is only the start of the competition facing Dublin G.A.A every day. My home town has about 8,500 people but we have to compete with a very good soccer club, a top club both of who field at every age group. We have a top class sailing club so before we start our playing population has diminished considerably. Some of the clubs in these other codes are huge, Look at clubs like Home farm or Crumlin in Soccer or Blackrock, Clontarf IN Rugby who often field 3 teams at each age group that is serious competition for Dublin G.A.A. to compete with. If you are not organized you will be an also ran. Dublin GAA got good structures in place 25 years ago and knew it would take time. What I have seen in other counties is politics ruining good basic structures. Big egos with no balls.

    Look at West and South Dublin with a big population explosion. 3 new clubs but I know for a fact there are families living in these suburbs who go back to Kildare, Wicklow, Louth and Meath to play for their home clubs which is no harm so it aint all rosy in the Dublin garden but thankfully we have people who are very committed to their clubs and communities.

    So what needs to be done? Maybe bring in outside people to run other counties affairs starting at juvenile level.Maybe we need to do away with our current structures all together, where every county with over 100,000 people should field 2 teams either North and South or East and West. Or lets go with 2 teams from Kerry, Galway Mayo, in football and Tipp Cork Kilkenny, Galway, Clare all have 2 in hurling. But the anti Dublin sentiment is unhelpful without a constructive proposal.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,381 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    tritium wrote: »
    It so simple that nonone else has managed it consistently in over a century in Kerrys case! Lets be honest here if Dublin disappeared tomorrow there would still be 1 maybe 2 counties that were streets ahead in terms of finances and playing populations. Dont believe me? How open and equitable was the AI in the years before 2011? If Tyrone hadnt been marginally more stubborn and revolutionary than this currwnt Mayo team it would have been an absolute procession. Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison?




    Kerry are one of the finest examples of professionalisn (in the good sense of the word) in the GAA. They have a network established that will let them pull in a mint from events stateside, and have a long established sponsorship to exploit their brand. Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, the likes of kerry did, and did it brilliantly. They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html



    And what exactly have Dublin achieved? Before 2011 they couldnt get a sniff of an AI since 95. It was 83 before that. Why would any team with serious aspirations set a benchmark of every 20 years or so? Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close.

    This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else. That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles.

    If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. You have to even out the spending advantage that Mayo currently enjoy. Everyone would have to have the same (you'd probably also need to abolish the county based structure completely but lets keep it simple for now) How exactly would you feel about hobbling all the big teams?


    You just don't get it.

    Dublin have to be broken up as quickly as possible. Otherwise the current young Meath team will become disheartened and will never win a Leinster, and this current Mayo team, the best one ever, will never win an All-Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,958 ✭✭✭ Dots1982


    Think you mean 6 LOI clubs in Dublin. Bray is in Wicklow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison? Kerry won with their own resources certainly never received half the funding or millions from Sport Ireland every year propping up the show


    Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, Give me a break Dublin have a lorry load of international sponsors https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners and you have the gall to suggest Kerry has a bigger commercial pull - one of the poorest counties in the country.

    Guess how many outside Kerry sponsors are involved with KY setup?

    They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin. Dublin don't have to spend vast amounts of money on travelling expenses which is the biggest expenses by far for those on the Western Seaboard so that is another Red Herring



    Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close. Exactly until the money came in the mid noughties Dublin were competitve on a national and Leinster scale yet now they are obliterating everyone in a way noone has ever done yet the €€€€€€€€€ pumped in by the GAA has no effect?????

    This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else
    That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others.
    Nonsense anyone with eye sight can see the damage the Dublin monster has done in Leinser and will inevitably do on a national scale


    And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles. Because nobody else gets 70 paid coaches from the GAA, a third of the population every game at home a COE paid for in full by the GAA all factors which will ensure a monopoly in perpetuity unless the GAA take drastic action

    If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. Mayo , Kerry and KK have achieved everything organically not just because they have an enormous population,home advantage for every game, all the jobs, bucketloads of coaches and countless other advantage sand any suggestion otherwise is just whataboutery and spin tactics from blue tinted glasses and nothing else


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,381 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    TrueGael wrote: »
    now they are obliterating everyone in a way noone has ever done

    That simply isn't true.

    Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better.

    Kerry's 9 titles in 11 years from 1975 to 1986 is far superior in football.

    The jealousy and envy of Dublin is deeply engrained in so many that we have these threads every year. I am perfectly happy to come back and discuss this issue once Dublin have matched the Kilkenny success.

    When I do, it will be about merging counties, not splitting Dublin up.

    By the way, Kildare will beat Dublin sometime in the next three years.


    Edit: As for Mayo, they have achieved their recent success by pouring all their money into the senior team, hence nobody coming up behind. It is extremely short-sighted and if they don't win one of the next 5 All-Irelands it could be fifty years before they win one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    If you speak to people in these other Leinster counties they have only themselves to blame and most will admit it. They have crap structures, there is vitriolic hatred in some counties among clubs and no matter what happens with Dublin until these counties sort themselves out nothing will change. Each of those counties could have clones of Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein but you have no chance of competing against a region with 15,20,25 and more times population and funding in the long run

    This population thing sure Dublin have over 1,000,000 people. Dublin also has 15 A.I.L Rugby clubs, 7 L.O.I soccer clubs, 14 All-Ireland cricket clubs and this is only the start of the competition facing Dublin G.A.A every day. My home town has about 8,500 people but we have to compete with a very good soccer club, a top club both of who field at every age group. We have a top class sailing club so before we start our playing population has diminished considerably. Some of the clubs in these other codes are huge, Look at clubs like Home farm or Crumlin in Soccer or Blackrock, Clontarf IN Rugby who often field 3 teams at each age group that is serious competition for Dublin G.A.A. to compete with. If you are not organized you will be an also ran. Dublin GAA got good structures in place 25 years ago and knew it would take time. What I have seen in other counties is politics ruining good basic structures. Big egos with no balls. Firstly it's closer to a million and a HALF which will grow to 2 MILLION by 2040,

    Secondly there are other sports in the other counties no wonder rugby has grown so much in alienated Leinster counties who are disillusioned trying to compete with the Dublin monster.

    Thirdly you don't have to face up to rampant emigration which is eating rural Ireland and particularly the Western Seaboard alive

    You can have the greatest structures in the world they are no good without €€€€€€ behind it and the €€€€€€€€€€ isn't there to fund 32 counties to the extent Dublin were

    Look at West and South Dublin with a big population explosion. 3 new clubs but I know for a fact there are families living in these suburbs who go back to Kildare, Wicklow, Louth and Meath to play for their home clubs which is no harm so it aint all rosy in the Dublin garden but thankfully we have people who are very committed to their clubs and communities. Which ignores all the Dublin people living in Meath, Kildare and Wicklow who have absolutely no interest in supporting the GAA clubs there and make their kids support Dublin which is the exact opposite to what has happened in Dublin

    So what needs to be done? Maybe bring in outside people to run other counties affairs starting at juvenile level.Maybe we need to do away with our current structures all together, where every county with over 100,000 people should field 2 teams either North and South or East and West. Or lets go with 2 teams from Kerry, Galway Mayo, in football and Tipp Cork Kilkenny, Galway, Clare all have 2 in hurling. But the anti Dublin sentiment is unhelpful without a constructive proposal. So because of the Dublin monster we have to rip up 130+ years of history in the GAA? So you would be happy to field 10 Dublin teams then? If you are happy winning easy ttiles versus handicapped small counties great but you'll never get the respect you and the horde paranoid Dublin twitter fans (who wouldn't name 10 clubs can great at berating opposition players though) absolutely crave


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better - Hurling has way fewer competing teams , KK had a group of genuinely once in a lifetime players Henry, Tommy Walsh, JJ etc and main rivals Cork imploded with the strikes only now are the beginning to recover

    Kerry's 9 titles in 11 years from 1975 to 1986 is far superior in football - Kerry didn't do that lost in 76,77 famously in 82 and to Cork the following year

    The jealousy and envy of Dublin is deeply engrained in so many that we have these threads every year. I am perfectly happy to come back and discuss this issue once Dublin have matched the Kilkenny success. KK success was organic their population is about 95k any of the other big Hurling counties could conceivably do what they did, it's impossible to copy Dublin in shaoe or form

    When I do, it will be about merging counties, not splitting Dublin up. You could combine the rest of Leinster and it would be still smaller financially and numbers wise not to mention the logistical difficulty of trying to bring them together to one location, Dublin is tiny in size and has incredible transport facilities so it would be easy set up 3 teams

    By the way, Kildare will beat Dublin sometime in the next three years.
    Bull**** patronising nonsense that we heard after the Leinster Final when a half hearted Dublin swatted Kildare aside by 9 points

    Edit: As for Mayo, they have achieved their recent success by pouring all their money into the senior team, hence nobody coming up behind. It is extremely short-sighted and if they don't win one of the next 5 All-Irelands it could be fifty years before they win one.
    What are they supposed to do? They have a once in a generation group of players trying to keep up with a financially doped team. They don't have luxury of been given 70 full time coaches like Dublin so they are forced to make a really tough decision just as everyone else trying to win an AI has They also don't have luxury of having all their players living in the same location or an enormous backroom team looking after conceivable issue


    HOW DARE ANYONE HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CHALLENGE THE DUBLIN JUGGERNAUT!!!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,382 ✭✭✭ tritium


    Jebus theres some nonsense here, ok lets start...
    TrueGael wrote: »
    Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison? Kerry won with their own resources certainly never received half the funding or millions from Sport Ireland every year propping up the show
    Kerry have an extremely astute commercial setup. They have one of the longest standing sponsorships going, with Kerry group, datung back to the early 90s I believe. They also had the network to pull in a million quid from a ststeside fundraiser in 2015 to fund facilities, toppibg up donations from other sponsors etc. Granted it doesnt always go smoothly, like when they tru to sell final tickets with a round of golf for €700 a pair...

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fans-unimpressed-as-allireland-tickets-on-offer-for-700-as-part-of-kerry-gaa-fundraiser-36127497.html
    Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, Give me a break Dublin have a lorry load of international sponsors https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners and you have the gall to suggest Kerry has a bigger commercial pull - one of the poorest counties in the country.

    Guess how many outside Kerry sponsors are involved with KY setup?
    Nice way to completely ignore the point and put in your own.....Dublin have unquestionably gotten better at taking sponsorship oppoetunities in recent years and selling the brand. However it would be disingenuous to say they started it given the points above. Why is it ok btw for Kerry to do something better than the rest but a problem when Dublin do? Oh yeah, something something juggernaut.......

    Oh, heres another one

    http://www.the42.ie/kerry-gaa-london-fundraiser-2401244-Oct2015/
    They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin. Dublin don't have to spend vast amounts of money on travelling expenses which is the biggest expenses by far for those on the Western Seaboard so that is another Red Herring
    Ah seriously this one is just a ****e point and you know it. Anything to have an arguement i guess. Maybe rather than focusing on Dublin for a second you like to duscuss how mayos spend is equitable when cimpared to other non Dublin counties who spend far less?

    Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close. Exactly until the money came in the mid noughties Dublin were competitve on a national and Leinster scale yet now they are obliterating everyone in a way noone has ever done yet the €€€€€€€€€ pumped in by the GAA has no effect?????
    Dublin were anything but competitive at a national level. Even in 2008 theyd shipped a 12 point defeat to Tyrone. Why wasnt it a crisis back then when Tyrone and kerry were the teams beating other so called big teams by wide margins? You know, when other non-dublin teams were obliterating Dublin in a way that apparently no one had done before Dublin came along....
    This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else
    That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others.
    Nonsense anyone with eye sight can see the damage the Dublin monster has done in Leinser and will inevitably do on a national scale
    And yet if you look at the provincial statistics Kerrys record of Munster dominance in recent years eerily morrors Dublin in Leinster. Nothing to see here though.....
    And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles. Because nobody else gets 70 paid coaches from the GAA, a third of the population every game at home a COE paid for in full by the GAA all factors which will ensure a monopoly in perpetuity unless the GAA take drastic action
    Once you've dismantled the nonsense above it this stuff looks alittle tired and bitter don't you think? A shorter and less dominant period than even the previous dominant team but the sky is falling in. Yeah right.......
    If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. Mayo , Kerry and KK have achieved everything organically not just because they have an enormous population,home advantage for every game, all the jobs, bucketloads of coaches and countless other advantage sand any suggestion otherwise is just whataboutery and spin tactics from blue tinted glasses and nothing else
    Ah yeah its just pure footballing skhill when someone else does it, hard work and talent. None of the points I raise in any way helped the other teams. Kerry having plenty of funds had nothing to do with it, theyre just naturally better thannthe leitrims of this world. What a bitter little rant this is at this stage


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    tritium wrote: »
    It so simple that nonone else has managed it consistently in over a century in Kerrys case! Lets be honest here if Dublin disappeared tomorrow there would still be 1 maybe 2 counties that were streets ahead in terms of finances and playing populations. Dont believe me? How open and equitable was the AI in the years before 2011? If Tyrone hadnt been marginally more stubborn and revolutionary than this currwnt Mayo team it would have been an absolute procession. Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison?



    Kerry are one of the finest examples of professionalisn (in the good sense of the word) in the GAA. They have a network established that will let them pull in a mint from events stateside, and have a long established sponsorship to exploit their brand. Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, the likes of kerry did, and did it brilliantly. They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin.



    I think you are missing the point here. I repeat, there is nothing Kerry are doing that the majority of other counties do not have the resources to replicate. Their professionalism, their organisation, their culture of gaa, nothing. They are simply making the absolute most of average resources, with those resources being the population of the county itself. That is the all important point.

    So that means that literally everything Kerry do, can be replicated by the vast majority of counties.


    In reality, it is in fact their system that other counties should be striving to replicate, rather than the one Dublin have put in place, as many commentators have suggested.


    tritium wrote: »


    These stats do not take into account

    A) There was a large carry-over from the previous season included in the Mayo figures for some reason. (Was it 300k or something like that?)

    B) Like this year, Mayo played far more games than everyone else. More games means more costs. If you break it down on a per game basis, Dublin spend more than Mayo, and that is even before you subtract the spend from the previous year. When you consider Mayo have to stay in hotels and travel across the country and back again, that is actually astounding.


    Not that this is relevant by the way. If mayo gaa can manage to raise that sort of money from their average sized population, it is credit they deserve, not criticism. Wouldn't it be some competition if we could get every 130k people in the country doing the same?

    People get so bogged down in trying to justify Dublin's spending, that they don't see that there are average sized counties out there are managing great feats in trying to keep pace with Dublin. If the GAA had their head screwed on they would be replicating that system across the country, rather than trying to replicate Dublin's system. 25 odd Mayos is very possible, 25 Dublin's is not.


    tritium wrote: »
    And what exactly have Dublin achieved? Before 2011 they couldnt get a sniff of an AI since 95. It was 83 before that. Why would any team with serious aspirations set a benchmark of every 20 years or so? Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close.

    This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else. That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles.

    If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. You have to even out the spending advantage that Mayo currently enjoy. Everyone would have to have the same (you'd probably also need to abolish the county based structure completely but lets keep it simple for now) How exactly would you feel about hobbling all the big teams?

    What Dublin have done is create a higher plane of competition than everyone else, which has taken them out of kilter to the rest. It isn't like they have one great team since 2011, there has been a conveyor belt of players coming into the side. Like on the face of it, Dublin in 2016 were probably in transition. Alan brogan was gone, B Brogan and McAuley were starting to show their age, O'Carroll was gone, while cluxton had a noticeably poorer year. That is 5 main men. They had young guys like Small, Fenton, Byrne coming in, while Rock was still probably only finding his feet. For anyone else, that would be a trough in performance. Yet their trough was still ahead of everyone else's peak and thus good enough to win the all Ireland...

    This in a nutshell is the problem we now face.


    To try and cast it off as a wind up and describe it as Dublin winning a few titles is reminiscent of Chemical Ali. Again I come back to the point, we need to start thinking beyond the doorstep of our own county.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    LeoB wrote: »
    This population thing sure Dublin have over 1,000,000 people. Dublin also has 15 A.I.L Rugby clubs, 7 L.O.I soccer clubs, 14 All-Ireland cricket clubs and this is only the start of the competition facing Dublin G.A.A every day. My home town has about 8,500 people but we have to compete with a very good soccer club, a top club both of who field at every age group. We have a top class sailing club so before we start our playing population has diminished considerably. Some of the clubs in these other codes are huge, Look at clubs like Home farm or Crumlin in Soccer or Blackrock, Clontarf IN Rugby who often field 3 teams at each age group that is serious competition for Dublin G.A.A. to compete with. If you are not organized you will be an also ran. Dublin GAA got good structures in place 25 years ago and knew it would take time. What I have seen in other counties is politics ruining good basic structures. Big egos with no balls.

    But surely you can see that this is all relative though? Like you have over 10 times the average population. That means you would have in and around 10 times the number of everything, be is soccer clubs, rugby clubs etc etc. Do you think that the same thing isn't in place in other counties, just on a smaller scale to match their smaller size? The percentage of potential players coming into contact with these sports would be quite similar. Yet other counties get results - worth remembering before you go knocking them...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That simply isn't true.
    Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better.
    Kerry's 9 titles in 11 years from 1975 to 1986 is far superior in football.

    And all credit to them for that. They show that this can be done without all these advantages. So it is safe to say that Dublin could be split and still be competitive.


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