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The GAA, the future and it’s choices and options

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    tritium wrote: »
    Hes listed as a student (i believe studying to be a teacher though someone may correct me there). Same as quite a few of both the Dublin and Mayo panels (and not unusual for a lad his age)

    Doesn't really answer the question though. Students have to work don't they? Is he working down in the local centra or up all hours working in some nightclub like a lot of students?
    Do many students get to manage their college team?

    I accept we need more time to make a full judgement on it, and indeed even as a teacher, there are ways and means around going in and working the hours like every other teacher if the right people are in your corner, so we may never know for sure. But it is definitely something worth keeping an eye on, and in the context of how Dublin are managing to avoid losing players, it is a relevant point.

    Have you any opinions on how they are doing it yourself?
    Structures no doubt.. Is there anything they cant do?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,382 ✭✭✭ tritium


    Doesn't really answer the question though. Students have to work don't they? Is he working down in the local centra or up all hours working in some nightclub like a lot of students?
    Do many students get to manage their college team?

    I accept we need more time to make a full judgement on it, and indeed even as a teacher, there are ways and means around going in and working the hours like every other teacher if the right people are in your corner, so we may never know for sure. But it is definitely something worth keeping an eye on, and in the context of how Dublin are managing to avoid losing players, it is a relevant point.

    Have you any opinions on how they are doing it yourself?
    Structures no doubt.. Is there anything they cant do?!

    Is there any reason youre focusing on the dublin players for this when the employment profile of the mayo panel is so similar?

    Edit: is this the management role youre referring to

    http://www.the42.ie/ciaran-kilkenny-2493328-Dec2015/

    Is it actually paid or just another ask on the lads time? How much does it pay (ballpark will do)?


  • Registered Users Posts: 880 ✭✭✭ brocbrocach


    Dublin has 12 adult male football divisions.
    I think kerry has 5 and Mayo 6.

    So, speaking very roughly about the SFC you could say that Dublin has about double the playing population of those two intercounty rivals. That's far more relevant than this talk of ten times the population v supertastic coaching.
    Something that skews that Dublin figure though is the huge amount of expat culchies playing there, from intercounty lads at senior level to old lads keeping fit in Div 11 North.
    It'd be interesting to compare some of the other big counties, Cork, Galway, Donegal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Why would any Dublin player want to play that abomination of AFL?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    tritium wrote: »
    Is there any reason youre focusing on the dublin players for this when the employment profile of the mayo panel is so similar?

    Edit: is this the management role youre referring to

    http://www.the42.ie/ciaran-kilkenny-2493328-Dec2015/

    Is it actually paid or just another ask on the lads time? How much does it pay (ballpark will do)?

    I already outlined the reason - since Kilkenny was tempted back to Ireland, no other Dublin player has gone to Australia. Im trying to have a discussion around that topic. Namely, how was he tempted back, and what is keeping them all at home when Mayo Kerry and a few more are losing players every second year.
    Surely you would be very naïve to assume it is all just a coincidence and never ask a question? Why so defensive?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    Dublin has 12 adult male football divisions.
    I think kerry has 5 and Mayo 6.

    So, speaking very roughly about the SFC you could say that Dublin has about double the playing population of those two intercounty rivals. That's far more relevant than this talk of ten times the population v supertastic coaching.
    Something that skews that Dublin figure though is the huge amount of expat culchies playing there, from intercounty lads at senior level to old lads keeping fit in Div 11 North.
    It'd be interesting to compare some of the other big counties, Cork, Galway, Donegal.

    I believe they have more teams in the divisions also, so it would be a bit more than that.
    I think you have to factor in the population because that is still a potential number. Like there is drop-off in every county. It is the job of that county to get the level of participation up. Dublin might be a bit of a basket case on that front, but the potential is still there so you cant ignore it. To me the obvious answer to more participation is more access to football at the top level.

    Re the 'culchies' playing league football in a different county, that happens in cork/galway etc too. Similarly you have to factor in the number of dubs settled outside Dublin, but sending their young lads up playing to Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Why would someone not want to be part of the greatest football team in history rather than playing that silly game in Oz?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Why would any Dublin player want to play that abomination of AFL?

    To make a lot of money being a professional sportsperson?
    It seems to appeal to lads from everywhere else...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,382 ✭✭✭ tritium


    I already outlined the reason - since Kilkenny was tempted back to Ireland, no other Dublin player has gone to Australia. Im trying to have a discussion around that topic. Namely, how was he tempted back, and what is keeping them all at home when Mayo Kerry and a few more are losing players every second year.
    Surely you would be very naïve to assume it is all just a coincidence and never ask a question? Why so defensive?

    Im actually not being defensive. I asked you is it a paid role since you'd made so much of it so i assumed youd have that detail -as far as i can see his occupation is full time student. As i understood it kilkenny tried out oz and just didnt like it, its not as if there was sime under the counter offer to stop him going in the first place. Again if you know otherwise please share it


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Why would someone not want to be part of the greatest football team in history rather than playing that silly game in Oz?

    Well Kilkenny did, until he was coaxed back.
    McCaffrey saw fit to go to the combine, made a big impression, but it stopped dead after that.
    Until they find a way to get to kerry in the 1970s, I guess we will never know.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    tritium wrote: »
    Im actually not being defensive. I asked you is it a paid role since you'd made so much of it so i assumed youd have that detail -as far as i can see his occupation is full time student. As i understood it kilkenny tried out oz and just didnt like it, its not as if there was sime under the counter offer to stop him going in the first place. Again if you know otherwise please share it

    If I knew for sure I would tell you. However there is nothing wrong with examining the facts we have and discussing the thing. You seem at pains to shut that discussion down. It's very existence seems to make you uneasy.

    Personally I think that if Dublin have found a way to keep guys at home they should share it with us all so that we can all keep our players. GAA ethos - something you should maybe familiarise yourself with?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭ kilns


    I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.
    As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget
    Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.
    Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out.  I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.
    As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget
    Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.
    Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out. I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

    You are daft if you think the rest of the gaa need Dublin. Dublin have 1/5 of the population of the island of Ireland. Why would 1/5 of the population be so important to the other 4/5? The gaa would be fine without any one county, Dublin included.
    As for having things right, being able to be slightly ahead of counties with less than 10th of your population is hardly getting things right man. Something to consider before you start sneering about warm weather training camps...

    Maybe think before you speak now and again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭ kilns


    kilns wrote: »
    I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.
    As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget
    Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.
    Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out.  I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

    You are daft if you think the rest of the gaa need Dublin. Dublin have 1/5 of the population of the island of Ireland. Why would 1/5 of the population be so important to the other 4/5? The gaa would be fine without any one county, Dublin included.
    As for having things right, being able to be slightly ahead of counties with less than 10th of your population is hardly getting things right man. Something to consider before you start sneering about warm weather training camps...

    Maybe think before you speak now and again.
    I remember you, every thread descends into a mess when you are involved as you have an irrational hatred of everything Dublin.
    Mods should close this thread before he starts


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    I remember you, every thread descends into a mess when you are involved as you have an irrational hatred of everything Dublin.
    Mods should close this thread before he starts

    You are the guy who keeps talking about Mayo on a thread about Dublin's financial clout man. I want to discuss the topic, you want to attack my county.

    Sounds like you are judging me by your own standards


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.

    That is like saying Man City had to foresight to put things in place for Pep 2/3 years before he came which has led to their domination which ignores the financial cost of doing so

    As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget

    Mayo haven't the luxury of Croke Park giving them 70/80 full time coaches and world class facilities to mass produce elite players, they have to make a choice and they decided to go all in with this current crop as their population means they will not produce a group like this again for a long time

    Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.

    That is because they are trying to keep up with a State Funded Juggernaut who have every conceivable professionals working for them - Marketing Mgr, Communications Mgr and all types of specialised Coaches , how many other counties could afford a former World Boxing Champion in the Setup, make no mistake Mayo are running to stand still


    Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out.  I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

    Wrong again just look at the attendances the Leinster Champ got in the late 90's and early 00's and compare them to now, chalk and cheese people are voting with their feet and this will happen on a national scale at a growing rate with such inequalities in the system. The GAA IC season funds the whole operation and the Dublin Monster is killing interest in the game and revenues year after year


    It is the GAA not the DGA!!!!!!!!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭ kilns


    TrueGael wrote: »
    I guess there are some guys on here who will not concede that Dublin have things the right way and have built their success over a long period and will sustain it because what they have put in place.

    That is like saying Man City had to foresight to put things in place for Pep 2/3 years before he came which has led to their domination which ignores the financial cost of doing so have Dublin bought players ? Have they poached the best young players from around the county?

    As a matter of interest I wonder what is the proportion of funds that Mayo put into their senior football team versus their coaching budget

    Mayo haven't the luxury of Croke Park giving them 70/80 full time coaches and world class facilities to mass produce elite players, they have to make a choice and they decided to go all in with this current crop as their population means they will not produce a group like this again for a long time i ask for proportions. Just thought it would interesting as i stated so many counties eye short term success over long term

    Yes they received funding for this plan but the utillized it well, I would bet that if Mayo received large sums they would be sending their senior football team on warm weather camps every week.

    That is because they are trying to keep up with a State Funded Juggernaut who have every conceivable professionals working for them - Marketing Mgr, Communications Mgr and all types of specialised Coaches , how many other counties could afford a former World Boxing Champion in the Setup, make no mistake Mayo are running to stand still
    are Dublin receiving state funding currently? Is Bernard Dunne being paid ???

    Like it or not Dublin is the most important brand to the GAA and every other county needs them to be high profile as they bring in funds to the GAA who then distribute it out.  I hope every county gets sufficent funding over the next few years and it would be very interesting to see how it is spent

    Wrong again just look at the attendances the Leinster Champ got in the late 90's and early 00's and compare them to now, chalk and cheese people are voting with their feet and this will happen on a national scale at a growing rate with such inequalities in the system. The GAA IC season funds the whole operation and the Dublin Monster is killing interest in the game and revenues year after year like it or not Dublin generates money which can be distributed throughout the GAA


    It is the GAA not the DGA!!!!!!!!!!!!
    its not that ABDGAA


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    kilns wrote: »
    its not that ABDGAA

    Well considering how the GAA have laid everything on a plate for Dublin (funding, COE, home advantage in perpetuity and so on) it certainly can't be called that.........


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,893 ✭✭✭ MayoAreMagic


    kilns wrote: »
    its not that ABDGAA

    Ah here, give the victim bit a break will you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭ kilns


    Good luck lads. Im not engaging with you two as it will descend into a farce like it usually does


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  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    You two?

    No as mentioned already we are the same poster as how could anyone accuse the 'Saviours of the Game' of having every possible competitive advantage over the rest it is just god-given ability and the rest are bottling culchies'


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭ kilns


    I know its natural to dislike the city team etc etc

    But i guess what irritates people is posters that refuse to give Dublin GAA any credit for the current success. Money doesnt make Diarmuid Connolly the most naturally gifted player out there or pay for a radar on Cluxtons foot. They are blessed with a group of exceptionally talented players this level will not last but they will always be up there due to the structures in place and population. Go to any club in Dublin on a Saturday morning and it would make you proud seeing 5,6,7 year olds out learning skills from mostly volunteers and thats what its all about at the end of the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Taste the bitterness!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,362 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    But are they though? Think about it. They have well over 10 times the population of ourselves for example. Multiples of our financial muscle and the best facilities on their doorstep. Yet they can only beat mayo by a point. When you look at it objectively, there is a strong argument to suggest that Dublin are in fact miles behind when it comes to structures and development.

    Like how good would kerry be if they had all that dublin have?
    The worrying thing is they are catching up, which in itself is a good thing, but it will undoubtedly leave the premier competition in the game in tatters.

    I don't know how many time I have to repeatedly deal with the rubbish about the financing.

    The money is spent on juvenile coaching in clubs and schools. Therefore, it goes on kids who will never play senior football for their county. The benefit it brings to the country in keeping those kids fit and physically active throughout their teenage years in incalculable.

    I am fairly certain that if Mayo got the money that Dublin got, that they would waste it on warm weather training camps for the senior team, makey-up jobs in Castlebar for the lads, and ultimately this might get them one All-Ireland but would destroy the game within the county.

    Unfortunately, there are too many people on here like yourself, whose sole focus is the county game and the All-Ireland and All-Stars. Maybe, if you got involved in the club scene or watched a few juvenile games, you might get an idea of how money should be spent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,362 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    To make a lot of money being a professional sportsperson?
    It seems to appeal to lads from everywhere else...

    Not really, there aren't that many Mayo lads playing in australia.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,382 ✭✭✭ tritium


    If I knew for sure I would tell you. However there is nothing wrong with examining the facts we have and discussing the thing. You seem at pains to shut that discussion down. It's very existence seems to make you uneasy.

    Personally I think that if Dublin have found a way to keep guys at home they should share it with us all so that we can all keep our players. GAA ethos - something you should maybe familiarise yourself with?

    So you don't actually know but youre idly speculating? Is it gaa ethos to blacken someones name with snide backhand speculation too?

    Since youre 'examining the facts' you must have a few non dub players that you also think look a bit dodge. You know, big athletic types who for some reason havent ended up in oz. Lets have you name them too in the interests of 'discussing the thing'. After all if other counties have players whose charactetistics are suited to afl but theyve stayed here for some reason they should share it with us all so that we can all keep our players. GAA ethos and all that...


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Not really, there aren't that many Mayo lads playing in australia.

    There have been as many Mayo players as one would expect on average, 2 Dublin players and none since 1990 given the population is way lower than what it would be if they were a normal county


  • Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭ TrueGael


    kilns wrote: »
    I know its natural to dislike the city team etc etc

    But i guess what irritates people is posters that refuse to give Dublin GAA any credit for the current success. Money doesnt make Diarmuid Connolly the most naturally gifted player out there or pay for a radar on Cluxtons foot. They are blessed with a group of exceptionally talented players this level will not last but they will always be up there due to the structures in place and population. Go to any club in Dublin on a Saturday morning and it would make you proud seeing 5,6,7 year olds out learning skills from mostly volunteers and thats what its all about at the end of the day.



    Well when Dublin fans gloat to people in their faces (both literally at games in CP and metaphorically on platforms such as Twitter and places like here) you can't expect to get 24/7 worship and praise that ye crave or that we will just cover up the facts and pretend it is a fair and equal competition


    In the 'country' it is volunteers and volunteers alone that are keeping the game alive in many places having to amalgamate with 3/4 clubs just to field 1 team such is the rate of emigration that has kicked in the last 10 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    TrueGael wrote: »
    There have been as many Mayo players as one would expect on average, 2 Dublin players and none since 1990 given the population is way lower than what it would be if they were a normal county

    So insinuation is that Dublin players - one who has been named - were persuaded not to go or to come back by financial incentives?

    That is quite a serious accusation. I know father of one chap from midlands county who went to Australia and came back, and reason had nothing to do with anything other than not breaking into a first team, and not liking the place. Stynes - a Dub who would have been part of 90s team - was one of very few to decide to stay.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭ LeoB


    TrueGael wrote: »
    .

    What about the little boys and girls in Cork, Galway, Limerick & Belfast do they not deserve a bone?

    Another thick comment. Who in their right mind would begrudge any child the opportunity to get coached in any sport. I was recently in Belfast with a team and the coaching going on was top class. In 2 clubs on the Andersonstown Rd, St. Pauls and O'Donavan Rossa and on the top pitchs in Queens. The same is happening in Cork. They have G.P.Os working away in schools and clubs. Will you complain when they start to dominate hurling? and possibly football?



    Dublin won because of the sheer numbers they have means they have a bench which isn't weaker than the players they are replacing and because they receive world-class coaching from when they are picked up by the underage IC system at 13/14, mayo at absolute best are picking from 17 players and if any of them are out of form/injured they are screwed, Rochford got more decisions right but not enough to win Tyrone had similar athleticism to Dublin but were blown away strength wise
    It is debatable if their bench is as strong as you and other think. I know most of them from refereeing and going to games. None of them consistently dominate club games because players are properly coached and can deal with the situations. Mayo are not picking from 17 players that is another stupid comment. Mayo had outside their starting another 10-12 players nearly as good as the players who started with the exception of Keegan, Moran, Barrett, Higgins and C O'Connor. Dublin like Mayo have some players who are near impossible to replace, Cluxton, Cian O'Sullivan, Mick Fitz, Dean Rock. The other can be replaced but not by better players but by very good players.
    As for Tyrone this year I said it already they were not up for this game with Dublin. Things were not good in their camp. I believe it was a mistake for Mickey Harte to stay and he only stayed because Peter the great is not ready yet.

    I know a number of Dublin lads who tried out for A.F.L and simply didnt make it. Kerry have produced a number of exceptional players with great fielding ability as have Mayo, Galway and Cork. Dublin are not producing the massive big ball winning player but more all round. As the A.F.L changes in coming years you will see more of a spread of going over not necessarily big bungalow heads as their game becomes a little physical


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