The GAA, the future and itâ€™s choices and options

blanch152 · 07-11-2017 10:47pm

tritium wrote: »

It so simple that nonone else has managed it consistently in over a century in Kerrys case! Lets be honest here if Dublin disappeared tomorrow there would still be 1 maybe 2 counties that were streets ahead in terms of finances and playing populations. Dont believe me? How open and equitable was the AI in the years before 2011? If Tyrone hadnt been marginally more stubborn and revolutionary than this currwnt Mayo team it would have been an absolute procession. Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison?

Kerry are one of the finest examples of professionalisn (in the good sense of the word) in the GAA. They have a network established that will let them pull in a mint from events stateside, and have a long established sponsorship to exploit their brand. Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, the likes of kerry did, and did it brilliantly. They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html

And what exactly have Dublin achieved? Before 2011 they couldnt get a sniff of an AI since 95. It was 83 before that. Why would any team with serious aspirations set a benchmark of every 20 years or so? Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close.

This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else. That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles.

If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. You have to even out the spending advantage that Mayo currently enjoy. Everyone would have to have the same (you'd probably also need to abolish the county based structure completely but lets keep it simple for now) How exactly would you feel about hobbling all the big teams?

You just don't get it.

Dublin have to be broken up as quickly as possible. Otherwise the current young Meath team will become disheartened and will never win a Leinster, and this current Mayo team, the best one ever, will never win an All-Ireland.

Dots1982 · 07-11-2017 10:51pm

Think you mean 6 LOI clubs in Dublin. Bray is in Wicklow.

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 12:24am

Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison? Kerry won with their own resources certainly never received half the funding or millions from Sport Ireland every year propping up the show

Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, Give me a break Dublin have a lorry load of international sponsors https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners and you have the gall to suggest Kerry has a bigger commercial pull - one of the poorest counties in the country.

Guess how many outside Kerry sponsors are involved with KY setup?

They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin. Dublin don't have to spend vast amounts of money on travelling expenses which is the biggest expenses by far for those on the Western Seaboard so that is another Red Herring

Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close. Exactly until the money came in the mid noughties Dublin were competitve on a national and Leinster scale yet now they are obliterating everyone in a way noone has ever done yet the €€€€€€€€€ pumped in by the GAA has no effect?????

This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else
That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. Nonsense anyone with eye sight can see the damage the Dublin monster has done in Leinser and will inevitably do on a national scale

And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles. Because nobody else gets 70 paid coaches from the GAA, a third of the population every game at home a COE paid for in full by the GAA all factors which will ensure a monopoly in perpetuity unless the GAA take drastic action

If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. Mayo , Kerry and KK have achieved everything organically not just because they have an enormous population,home advantage for every game, all the jobs, bucketloads of coaches and countless other advantage sand any suggestion otherwise is just whataboutery and spin tactics from blue tinted glasses and nothing else

blanch152 · 08-11-2017 12:36am

TrueGael wrote: »

now they are obliterating everyone in a way noone has ever done

That simply isn't true.

Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better.

Kerry's 9 titles in 11 years from 1975 to 1986 is far superior in football.

The jealousy and envy of Dublin is deeply engrained in so many that we have these threads every year. I am perfectly happy to come back and discuss this issue once Dublin have matched the Kilkenny success.

When I do, it will be about merging counties, not splitting Dublin up.

By the way, Kildare will beat Dublin sometime in the next three years.

Edit: As for Mayo, they have achieved their recent success by pouring all their money into the senior team, hence nobody coming up behind. It is extremely short-sighted and if they don't win one of the next 5 All-Irelands it could be fifty years before they win one.

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 12:44am

If you speak to people in these other Leinster counties they have only themselves to blame and most will admit it. They have crap structures, there is vitriolic hatred in some counties among clubs and no matter what happens with Dublin until these counties sort themselves out nothing will change. Each of those counties could have clones of Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein but you have no chance of competing against a region with 15,20,25 and more times population and funding in the long run

This population thing sure Dublin have over 1,000,000 people. Dublin also has 15 A.I.L Rugby clubs, 7 L.O.I soccer clubs, 14 All-Ireland cricket clubs and this is only the start of the competition facing Dublin G.A.A every day. My home town has about 8,500 people but we have to compete with a very good soccer club, a top club both of who field at every age group. We have a top class sailing club so before we start our playing population has diminished considerably. Some of the clubs in these other codes are huge, Look at clubs like Home farm or Crumlin in Soccer or Blackrock, Clontarf IN Rugby who often field 3 teams at each age group that is serious competition for Dublin G.A.A. to compete with. If you are not organized you will be an also ran. Dublin GAA got good structures in place 25 years ago and knew it would take time. What I have seen in other counties is politics ruining good basic structures. Big egos with no balls. Firstly it's closer to a million and a HALF which will grow to 2 MILLION by 2040,

Secondly there are other sports in the other counties no wonder rugby has grown so much in alienated Leinster counties who are disillusioned trying to compete with the Dublin monster.

Thirdly you don't have to face up to rampant emigration which is eating rural Ireland and particularly the Western Seaboard alive

You can have the greatest structures in the world they are no good without €€€€€€ behind it and the €€€€€€€€€€ isn't there to fund 32 counties to the extent Dublin were

Look at West and South Dublin with a big population explosion. 3 new clubs but I know for a fact there are families living in these suburbs who go back to Kildare, Wicklow, Louth and Meath to play for their home clubs which is no harm so it aint all rosy in the Dublin garden but thankfully we have people who are very committed to their clubs and communities. Which ignores all the Dublin people living in Meath, Kildare and Wicklow who have absolutely no interest in supporting the GAA clubs there and make their kids support Dublin which is the exact opposite to what has happened in Dublin

So what needs to be done? Maybe bring in outside people to run other counties affairs starting at juvenile level.Maybe we need to do away with our current structures all together, where every county with over 100,000 people should field 2 teams either North and South or East and West. Or lets go with 2 teams from Kerry, Galway Mayo, in football and Tipp Cork Kilkenny, Galway, Clare all have 2 in hurling. But the anti Dublin sentiment is unhelpful without a constructive proposal. So because of the Dublin monster we have to rip up 130+ years of history in the GAA? So you would be happy to field 10 Dublin teams then? If you are happy winning easy ttiles versus handicapped small counties great but you'll never get the respect you and the horde paranoid Dublin twitter fans (who wouldn't name 10 clubs can great at berating opposition players though) absolutely crave

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 12:57am

Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better - Hurling has way fewer competing teams , KK had a group of genuinely once in a lifetime players Henry, Tommy Walsh, JJ etc and main rivals Cork imploded with the strikes only now are the beginning to recover

Kerry's 9 titles in 11 years from 1975 to 1986 is far superior in football - Kerry didn't do that lost in 76,77 famously in 82 and to Cork the following year

The jealousy and envy of Dublin is deeply engrained in so many that we have these threads every year. I am perfectly happy to come back and discuss this issue once Dublin have matched the Kilkenny success. KK success was organic their population is about 95k any of the other big Hurling counties could conceivably do what they did, it's impossible to copy Dublin in shaoe or form

When I do, it will be about merging counties, not splitting Dublin up. You could combine the rest of Leinster and it would be still smaller financially and numbers wise not to mention the logistical difficulty of trying to bring them together to one location, Dublin is tiny in size and has incredible transport facilities so it would be easy set up 3 teams

By the way, Kildare will beat Dublin sometime in the next three years.
Bull**** patronising nonsense that we heard after the Leinster Final when a half hearted Dublin swatted Kildare aside by 9 points

Edit: As for Mayo, they have achieved their recent success by pouring all their money into the senior team, hence nobody coming up behind. It is extremely short-sighted and if they don't win one of the next 5 All-Irelands it could be fifty years before they win one. What are they supposed to do? They have a once in a generation group of players trying to keep up with a financially doped team. They don't have luxury of been given 70 full time coaches like Dublin so they are forced to make a really tough decision just as everyone else trying to win an AI has They also don't have luxury of having all their players living in the same location or an enormous backroom team looking after conceivable issue

HOW DARE ANYONE HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CHALLENGE THE DUBLIN JUGGERNAUT!!!!!!!

tritium · 08-11-2017 8:54am

Jebus theres some nonsense here, ok lets start...

TrueGael wrote: »

Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison? Kerry won with their own resources certainly never received half the funding or millions from Sport Ireland every year propping up the show

Kerry have an extremely astute commercial setup. They have one of the longest standing sponsorships going, with Kerry group, datung back to the early 90s I believe. They also had the network to pull in a million quid from a ststeside fundraiser in 2015 to fund facilities, toppibg up donations from other sponsors etc. Granted it doesnt always go smoothly, like when they tru to sell final tickets with a round of golf for €700 a pair...

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/fans-unimpressed-as-allireland-tickets-on-offer-for-700-as-part-of-kerry-gaa-fundraiser-36127497.html

Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, Give me a break Dublin have a lorry load of international sponsors https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners and you have the gall to suggest Kerry has a bigger commercial pull - one of the poorest counties in the country.

Guess how many outside Kerry sponsors are involved with KY setup?

Nice way to completely ignore the point and put in your own.....Dublin have unquestionably gotten better at taking sponsorship oppoetunities in recent years and selling the brand. However it would be disingenuous to say they started it given the points above. Why is it ok btw for Kerry to do something better than the rest but a problem when Dublin do? Oh yeah, something something juggernaut.......

Oh, heres another one

http://www.the42.ie/kerry-gaa-london-fundraiser-2401244-Oct2015/

They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin. Dublin don't have to spend vast amounts of money on travelling expenses which is the biggest expenses by far for those on the Western Seaboard so that is another Red Herring

Ah seriously this one is just a ****e point and you know it. Anything to have an arguement i guess. Maybe rather than focusing on Dublin for a second you like to duscuss how mayos spend is equitable when cimpared to other non Dublin counties who spend far less?

Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close. Exactly until the money came in the mid noughties Dublin were competitve on a national and Leinster scale yet now they are obliterating everyone in a way noone has ever done yet the €€€€€€€€€ pumped in by the GAA has no effect?????

Dublin were anything but competitive at a national level. Even in 2008 theyd shipped a 12 point defeat to Tyrone. Why wasnt it a crisis back then when Tyrone and kerry were the teams beating other so called big teams by wide margins? You know, when other non-dublin teams were obliterating Dublin in a way that apparently no one had done before Dublin came along....

This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else
That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. Nonsense anyone with eye sight can see the damage the Dublin monster has done in Leinser and will inevitably do on a national scale

And yet if you look at the provincial statistics Kerrys record of Munster dominance in recent years eerily morrors Dublin in Leinster. Nothing to see here though.....

And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles. Because nobody else gets 70 paid coaches from the GAA, a third of the population every game at home a COE paid for in full by the GAA all factors which will ensure a monopoly in perpetuity unless the GAA take drastic action

Once you've dismantled the nonsense above it this stuff looks alittle tired and bitter don't you think? A shorter and less dominant period than even the previous dominant team but the sky is falling in. Yeah right.......

If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. Mayo , Kerry and KK have achieved everything organically not just because they have an enormous population,home advantage for every game, all the jobs, bucketloads of coaches and countless other advantage sand any suggestion otherwise is just whataboutery and spin tactics from blue tinted glasses and nothing else

Ah yeah its just pure footballing skhill when someone else does it, hard work and talent. None of the points I raise in any way helped the other teams. Kerry having plenty of funds had nothing to do with it, theyre just naturally better thannthe leitrims of this world. What a bitter little rant this is at this stage

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 11:52am

tritium wrote: »

It so simple that nonone else has managed it consistently in over a century in Kerrys case! Lets be honest here if Dublin disappeared tomorrow there would still be 1 maybe 2 counties that were streets ahead in terms of finances and playing populations. Dont believe me? How open and equitable was the AI in the years before 2011? If Tyrone hadnt been marginally more stubborn and revolutionary than this currwnt Mayo team it would have been an absolute procession. Kerry won 5 in those years and lost a fair few finals to boot. How exactly is a less successful Dublin team a problem in comparison?

Kerry are one of the finest examples of professionalisn (in the good sense of the word) in the GAA. They have a network established that will let them pull in a mint from events stateside, and have a long established sponsorship to exploit their brand. Dublin didn't start the commercial trend, the likes of kerry did, and did it brilliantly. They are in no sense of the word getting more from the same resources. Take a look at what teams spend the most on their intercounty setup and try to tell me its a level tide apart from Dublin.

I think you are missing the point here. I repeat, there is nothing Kerry are doing that the majority of other counties do not have the resources to replicate. Their professionalism, their organisation, their culture of gaa, nothing. They are simply making the absolute most of average resources, with those resources being the population of the county itself. That is the all important point.

So that means that literally everything Kerry do, can be replicated by the vast majority of counties.

In reality, it is in fact their system that other counties should be striving to replicate, rather than the one Dublin have put in place, as many commentators have suggested.

tritium wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/mayo-the-big-spenders-this-graph-breaks-down-each-countys-costs-in-2016-35458592.html

These stats do not take into account

A) There was a large carry-over from the previous season included in the Mayo figures for some reason. (Was it 300k or something like that?)

Like this year, Mayo played far more games than everyone else. More games means more costs. If you break it down on a per game basis, Dublin spend more than Mayo, and that is even before you subtract the spend from the previous year. When you consider Mayo have to stay in hotels and travel across the country and back again, that is actually astounding.

Not that this is relevant by the way. If mayo gaa can manage to raise that sort of money from their average sized population, it is credit they deserve, not criticism. Wouldn't it be some competition if we could get every 130k people in the country doing the same?

People get so bogged down in trying to justify Dublin's spending, that they don't see that there are average sized counties out there are managing great feats in trying to keep pace with Dublin. If the GAA had their head screwed on they would be replicating that system across the country, rather than trying to replicate Dublin's system. 25 odd Mayos is very possible, 25 Dublin's is not.

tritium wrote: »

And what exactly have Dublin achieved? Before 2011 they couldnt get a sniff of an AI since 95. It was 83 before that. Why would any team with serious aspirations set a benchmark of every 20 years or so? Between 95 and 2011 kerry by contrast had 6 titles and 3 losing finals. Dublin hadnt gotten close.

This is actually the poisonous part of the wind up that goes around about Dublin. On the one hand we're told they're not far ahead of everyone else. That a kick of the ball is all between them and the others. And yet more successful and dominant teams of the past are given a pass while the GAA is in some kind of crisis because Dublin won a few titles.

If you want a level field, as you've often claimed fine. But lets not pretend that Dublin is the issue. If you want everyone to have an equal shot then you also have to take away the advantages and networks that the Kerrys have. You have to even out the spending advantage that Mayo currently enjoy. Everyone would have to have the same (you'd probably also need to abolish the county based structure completely but lets keep it simple for now) How exactly would you feel about hobbling all the big teams?

What Dublin have done is create a higher plane of competition than everyone else, which has taken them out of kilter to the rest. It isn't like they have one great team since 2011, there has been a conveyor belt of players coming into the side. Like on the face of it, Dublin in 2016 were probably in transition. Alan brogan was gone, B Brogan and McAuley were starting to show their age, O'Carroll was gone, while cluxton had a noticeably poorer year. That is 5 main men. They had young guys like Small, Fenton, Byrne coming in, while Rock was still probably only finding his feet. For anyone else, that would be a trough in performance. Yet their trough was still ahead of everyone else's peak and thus good enough to win the all Ireland...

This in a nutshell is the problem we now face.

To try and cast it off as a wind up and describe it as Dublin winning a few titles is reminiscent of Chemical Ali. Again I come back to the point, we need to start thinking beyond the doorstep of our own county.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 12:06pm

LeoB wrote: »

This population thing sure Dublin have over 1,000,000 people. Dublin also has 15 A.I.L Rugby clubs, 7 L.O.I soccer clubs, 14 All-Ireland cricket clubs and this is only the start of the competition facing Dublin G.A.A every day. My home town has about 8,500 people but we have to compete with a very good soccer club, a top club both of who field at every age group. We have a top class sailing club so before we start our playing population has diminished considerably. Some of the clubs in these other codes are huge, Look at clubs like Home farm or Crumlin in Soccer or Blackrock, Clontarf IN Rugby who often field 3 teams at each age group that is serious competition for Dublin G.A.A. to compete with. If you are not organized you will be an also ran. Dublin GAA got good structures in place 25 years ago and knew it would take time. What I have seen in other counties is politics ruining good basic structures. Big egos with no balls.

But surely you can see that this is all relative though? Like you have over 10 times the average population. That means you would have in and around 10 times the number of everything, be is soccer clubs, rugby clubs etc etc. Do you think that the same thing isn't in place in other counties, just on a smaller scale to match their smaller size? The percentage of potential players coming into contact with these sports would be quite similar. Yet other counties get results - worth remembering before you go knocking them...

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 12:13pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That simply isn't true.
Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better.
Kerry's 9 titles in 11 years from 1975 to 1986 is far superior in football.

And all credit to them for that. They show that this can be done without all these advantages. So it is safe to say that Dublin could be split and still be competitive.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 12:55pm

TrueGael wrote: »

So because of the Dublin monster we have to rip up 130+ years of history in the GAA? So you would be happy to field 10 Dublin teams then? If you are happy winning easy ttiles versus handicapped small counties great but you'll never get the respect you and the horde paranoid Dublin twitter fans (who wouldn't name 10 clubs can great at berating opposition players though) absolutely crave

That is the thing. How will history remember this Dublin team? Will it be always with an asterix because of the way they came about? Unfortunately for them, it probably will be. They will never get the same respect Kerry teams or the Tyrone team have. I take no joy in that because they are a great side, full of genuine, proper footballers, and far more likeable than tyrone were, but it is a bit like Real Madrid of old - when the government are funding your success, nobody is going to give you the credit other teams get.

I was at this year's final - that game and the second semi against kerry was the peak for this mayo team I believe. I couldn't have been prouder than if we won the thing. I have to admit, a big part of that was that we finally beat Kerry, and then it took Dublin to knock us out, who don't really count like say a Kerry would because Dublin are so far out of kilter. I don't say that to annoy dubs, I don't really care what dubs think of it, I say it because if you look at the thing objectively, it is just the reality.

howiya · 08-11-2017 1:16pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is the thing. How will history remember this Dublin team? Will it be always with an asterix because of the way they came about? Unfortunately for them, it probably will be. They will never get the same respect Kerry teams or the Tyrone team have. I take no joy in that because they are a great side, full of genuine, proper footballers, and far more likeable than tyrone were, but it is a bit like Real Madrid of old - when the government are funding your success, nobody is going to give you the credit other teams get.

I was at this year's final - that game and the second semi against kerry was the peak for this mayo team I believe. I couldn't have been prouder than if we won the thing. I have to admit, a big part of that was that we finally beat Kerry, and then it took Dublin to knock us out, who don't really count like say a Kerry would because Dublin are so far out of kilter. I don't say that to annoy dubs, I don't really care what dubs think of it, I say it because if you look at the thing objectively, it is just the reality.

Lets look at it objectively. 2016 there was a point between Dublin and Mayo. 2017, there was a point between Dublin and Mayo. If Clarkey hadn't kicked the ball away at the end of this years game, Mayo could have won the thing.

If Dublin are so far out of kilter what does that make Mayo?

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 1:30pm

howiya wrote: »

Lets look at it objectively. 2016 there was a point between Dublin and Mayo. 2017, there was a point between Dublin and Mayo. If Clarkey hadn't kicked the ball away at the end of this years game, Mayo could have won the thing.

If Dublin are so far out of kilter what does that make Mayo?

Far too simplistic a view.
Even if the above had happened, where does that leave us? Dublin still have the conveyor belt, they are still out of kilter, just like they were still out of kilter after donegal gave them a bit of a lesson in 2014. Losing an odd game along the way doesn't change the overall picture. For instance, do Real Madrid have to win every single game for their getting money from the government to be an issue?

The same ones giving this sort of example will reference Leicester city winning the EPL. The fact that that they are in fact trying to suggest that one shock win in 15 odd years is supposed to appease everyone else doesn't seem to occur to them...

Bonniedog · 08-11-2017 1:35pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is the thing. How will history remember this Dublin team? Will it be always with an asterix because of the way they came about? Unfortunately for them, it probably will be. They will never get the same respect Kerry teams or the Tyrone team have. I take no joy in that because they are a great side, full of genuine, proper footballers, and far more likeable than tyrone were, but it is a bit like Real Madrid of old - when the government are funding your success, nobody is going to give you the credit other teams get.

I was at this year's final - that game and the second semi against kerry was the peak for this mayo team I believe. I couldn't have been prouder than if we won the thing. I have to admit, a big part of that was that we finally beat Kerry, and then it took Dublin to knock us out, who don't really count like say a Kerry would because Dublin are so far out of kilter. I don't say that to annoy dubs, I don't really care what dubs think of it, I say it because if you look at the thing objectively, it is just the reality.

I don't buy into this "Mayo are losers" narrative, but your continuous excusing of them not winning against another bunch of lads from Dublin from same sort of backgrounds, same sort of clubs, and despite the reference to "professionalism" don't get paid, is bordering on self pity.

This happens to be exceptional group of Dublin footballers overseen since 2010 by an exceptional group on the lines.

Don't worry, you will be back calling us chokers when it ends. Meanwhile we shall enjoy watching one of the, if not THE, best teams of all time.

howiya · 08-11-2017 1:44pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Far too simplistic a view.
Even if the above had happened, where does that leave us? Dublin still have the conveyor belt, they are still out of kilter, just like they were still out of kilter after donegal gave them a bit of a lesson in 2014. Losing an odd game along the way doesn't change the overall picture. For instance, do Real Madrid have to win every single game for their getting money from the government to be an issue?

The same ones giving this sort of example will reference Leicester city winning the EPL. The fact that that they are in fact trying to suggest that one shock win in 15 odd years is supposed to appease everyone else doesn't seem to occur to them...

The soccer forum is over there somewhere...

Can you not answer the question?

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 2:21pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't buy into this "Mayo are losers" narrative, but your continuous excusing of them not winning against another bunch of lads from Dublin from same sort of backgrounds, same sort of clubs, and despite the reference to "professionalism" don't get paid, is bordering on self pity.

This happens to be exceptional group of Dublin footballers overseen since 2010 by an exceptional group on the lines.

Don't worry, you will be back calling us chokers when it ends. Meanwhile we shall enjoy watching one of the, if not THE, best teams of all time.

You underestimate people if you think they are still buying this, wonderfully vague 'great bunch of lads' routine. There has been a huge turnover of players in the Dublin squad since 2011. In fact most of the guys who were involved in 2011 that are still there are now in their 30s. They even played a reserve team in one competition last year, and still won it...

As for 'same sort of clubs', I think you will find that nobody has the type of clubs Dublin have. In fact some county teams don't have what the some Dublin clubs have.

You can try to redirect the debate onto mayo all you like, it doesn't change the reality outlined on the thread Im afraid. Come out of the gutter and discuss the thing properly.

howiya wrote: »

The soccer forum is over there somewhere...
Can you not answer the question?

I answered your question fully. The juggernaut doesn't go into reverse on the back of a single loss. The suggestion is ridiculous.

Bonniedog · 08-11-2017 3:09pm

So, what advantages do Dublin players have over Mayo then?

Are they

(a) being paid

(b) taking drugs; or

(c) just better?

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 3:20pm

Kerry have an extremely astute commercial setup. They have one of the longest standing sponsorships going, with Kerry group, datung back to the early 90s I believe. They also had the network to pull in a million quid from a ststeside fundraiser in 2015 to fund facilities, toppibg up donations from other sponsors etc. Granted it doesnt always go smoothly, like when they tru to sell final tickets with a round of golf for €700 a pair...

Kerry Group incase you don't know was founded in Listowel and HQ in Tralee not a faceless corporate global American behemoth that has no link to the local community, if you could name ONE non local sponsor Kerry have.

Regarding America, the reason Kerry can fundraise is obvious - emigration on a very high scale -Kerry aren't peppered with jobvs and investment and never has in the last 100-150 years which means there is a very big emigrant population in Britain and the States, next you'll be telling us young people leaving in droves is an advantage............

Finally, the fundraising has been to build a COE in Currans which isn't even in operation yet, when you have a 'national' facility built for you and world class sports facilities in DCY and beyond this isn't a consideration. Kerry haven't been able to train in Winter when the weather has been particularly bad again not a reality which Dublin has ever had to face

Nice way to completely ignore the point and put in your own.....Dublin have unquestionably gotten better at taking sponsorship oppoetunities in recent years and selling the brand. However it would be disingenuous to say they started it given the points above. Why is it ok btw for Kerry to do something better than the rest but a problem when Dublin do? Oh yeah, something something juggernaut.......

Nobody else has a million and a half people to sell their product to - everyone else has a far lower ceiling in which it can possibly raise revenue. Given this reality why does Dublin hoover up millions in Games Dev funding away from where it is desperately needed

Ah seriously this one is just a ****e point and you know it. Anything to have an arguement i guess. Maybe rather than focusing on Dublin for a second you like to duscuss how mayos spend is equitable when cimpared to other non Dublin counties who spend far less?

Mayo have been involved into September every year since 2012 with half their team in Dublin all the while trying to keep up with a state funded Juggernaut, the other counties are eliminated and don't face such huge expenses so it's entirely logical (but not sustainable in the long run) why Mayo have racked up such expenses they can't just get a handy Luas to training 3/4 times a week but keep up with the ad hominem attacks

Dublin were anything but competitive at a national level. Even in 2008 theyd shipped a 12 point defeat to Tyrone. Why wasnt it a crisis back then when Tyrone and kerry were the teams beating other so called big teams by wide margins? You know, when other non-dublin teams were obliterating Dublin in a way that apparently no one had done before Dublin came along....

They were once in a generation teams that were beating them and Kerry barely beat them the year before,looks like attempting to portray Dublin as Man City before Sheik Mansour came along..........which I don't go along with..........

And yet if you look at the provincial statistics Kerrys record of Munster dominance in recent years eerily morrors Dublin in Leinster. Nothing to see here though.....

Simple Munster is a Hurling province always been the case Leinster was a Football dominated province as seen by 6 different teams winning it between 96 and 04 before the GAA killed it by pouring millions after millions into the biggest region

Once you've dismantled the nonsense above it this stuff looks alittle tired and bitter don't you think? A shorter and less dominant period than even the previous dominant team but the sky is falling in. Yeah right....... Its like North Korea there can be no questioning the mighty Dublin bow down and hail or else..............

Ah yeah its just pure footballing skhill when someone else does it, hard work and talent. None of the points I raise in any way helped the other teams. Kerry having plenty of funds had nothing to do with it, theyre just naturally better thannthe leitrims of this world. What a bitter little rant this is at this stage

Yeah the Dublin region invented hard work!!!!! What an amazing concept Jeez how did the thick Culchies never think of that? Thicko boggers

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 3:23pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

So, what advantages do Dublin players have over Mayo then?

Are they

(a) being paid

(b) taking drugs; or

(c) just better?

If you don't know the advantage Dublin have over Mayo and the rest of the country, you should read the opening post of the thread.

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 3:27pm

howiya wrote: »

Lets look at it objectively. 2016 there was a point between Dublin and Mayo. 2017, there was a point between Dublin and Mayo. If Clarkey hadn't kicked the ball away at the end of this years game, Mayo could have won the thing.

If Dublin are so far out of kilter what does that make Mayo?

If Dublin hadn't cynically hauled down 5 Mayo players at the same time maybe he'd have found a teammate

When you have every possible competitive advantage (funding, backroom team, population, home ground, quality of preparation) over the rest the margin of error is far far higher. Mayo played as well they possibly could conceivably this year and it still wasn't enough which is why their small mistakes are magnified

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 3:39pm

TrueGael wrote: »

Yeah the Dublin region invented hard work!!!!! What an amazing concept Jeez how did the thick Culchies never think of that? Thicko boggers

It is a fair point. Some in the capital don't seem to be aware that most counties would crawl over hot coals to be in the position to put in the work Dublin were able to. It was an opportunity, not a hardship. There is then this rush to pat themselves on the backs for a job well done, and ask why cant everyone just do like they did. There seems to be a serious lack of knowledge among Dubs of what other counties face, and it is little to do with crap county boards and getting your house in order. The physical constraints are massive.

Now could they improve? Of course! Who couldn't, Dublin included? But it isnt as simple as some here seem to think. Surely if you want to solve an issue, you need to understand it first? Many guys don't seem to understand gaa outside of Dublin

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 3:41pm

TrueGael wrote: »

If Dublin hadn't cynically hauled down 5 Mayo players at the same time maybe he'd have found a teammate

When you have every possible competitive advantage (funding, backroom team, population, home ground, quality of preparation) over the rest the margin of error is far far higher. Mayo played as well they possibly could conceivably this year and it still wasn't enough which is why their small mistakes are magnified

There is no point getting drawn into the 'attack the poster's county' nonsense that these lads are trying to push. They are doing that to distract from the real issues and take the thread off course. They are doing so because they cant answer the questions.

Gael85 · 08-11-2017 4:16pm

Are Mayo Magic/True Gael the same poster?

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 4:21pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Are Mayo Magic/True Gael the same poster?

Im also BonnieDog, howiya, Blanch and yourself.

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 4:49pm

Gael85 wrote: »

Are Mayo Magic/True Gael the same poster?

Are you and all the paranoid 'never been at a club game in their lives' horde on Twitter all the same person?

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 5:02pm

AI Senior Football 1 - 5
Leinster SF 7 - 12

AI Senior Hurling n/a
Leinster SH 0 - 1

AI U21 Football 1 - 4
Leinster U21F 2 - 8

AI U21 Hurling n/a
Leinster U21H 0 - 4

AI Minor Football 0 - 1
Leinster MF 6 - 5

AI Minor Hurling n/a
Leinster MH 0 - 6

League Football 3 - 4
League Hurling 0 - 1

AI Club Football 1 - 4*
Leinster Club Football 7 - 9*

AI Club Hurling 0 - 1*
Leinster Club Hurling 0 - 1*

The above figures compare how Dublin IC and club teams fared in the TWENTY years before the financial doping started in 2005 and post 2005 and apart from Leinster Minor Football every one has grown in some cases by an inordinate amount bearing in mind there is still 8 years until it is an even 20 year comparison

What it shows is that Dublin was competitive at all levels but not destroying and killing the competition as it has done since 2005

But it's all just hard work and good once in a lifetime fortune right and the €€€€€€€€ is just a coincidence ......................................

*Likely to increase in the upcoming weeks

blanch152 · 08-11-2017 5:15pm

TrueGael wrote: »

If Dublin hadn't cynically hauled down 5 Mayo players at the same time maybe he'd have found a teammate

That is a complete lie.

One Dublin player got a black card - Kilkenny - for an incident. Then the kick-out was retaken, by which time Mayo now had an extra man. With three players in total now off the pitch there was plenty of empty space. In particular, there were five players that Clarke could have kicked to, with one Dublin player trying to cover all five.

Inexplicably, thank s to a complete meltdown, he kicked the ball over the sideline. Dublin retained pressure, thanks in part to the coolness of Cluxton and his defenders for the rest of the game.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 5:15pm

TrueGael wrote: »

AI Senior Football 1 - 5
Leinster SF 7 - 12

AI Senior Hurling n/a
Leinster SH 0 - 1

AI U21 Football 1 - 4
Leinster U21F 2 - 8

AI U21 Hurling n/a
Leinster U21H 0 - 4

AI Minor Football 0 - 1
Leinster MF 6 - 5

AI Minor Hurling n/a
Leinster MH 0 - 6

League Football 3 - 4
League Hurling 0 - 1

AI Club Football 1 - 4*
Leinster Club Football 7 - 9*

AI Club Hurling 0 - 1*
Leinster Club Hurling 0 - 1*

The above figures compare how Dublin IC and club teams fared in the TWENTY years before the financial doping started in 2005 and post 2005 and apart from Leinster Minor Football every one has grown in some cases by an inordinate amount bearing in mind there is still 8 years until it is an even 20 year comparison

What it shows is that Dublin was competitive at all levels but not destroying and killing the competition as it has done since 2005

But it's all just hard work and good once in a lifetime fortune right and the €€€€€€€€ is just a coincidence ......................................

*Likely to increase in the upcoming weeks

In fairness, it is hard to argue with that statistic as regards the effect money has had on the game. It also makes you wonder why they felt the need to invest in Dublin in the first place. They were well on their way to do something under their own steam.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 5:20pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That is a complete lie.

One Dublin player got a black card - Kilkenny - for an incident. Then the kick-out was retaken, by which time Mayo now had an extra man. With three players in total now off the pitch there was plenty of empty space. In particular, there were five players that Clarke could have kicked to, with one Dublin player trying to cover all five.

Inexplicably, thank s to a complete meltdown, he kicked the ball over the sideline. Dublin retained pressure, thanks in part to the coolness of Cluxton and his defenders for the rest of the game.

When you are done trying to bait posters maybe you could address the actual topic?

blanch152 · 08-11-2017 5:29pm

TrueGael wrote: »

They don't have luxury of been given 70 full time coaches like Dublin so they are forced to make a really tough decision just as everyone else trying to win an AI has

In an earlier post you said there were 80 full-time coaches.

Do you know what these coaches do? They go into primary and secondary schools, they work with juvenile teams in clubs.

I have been involved with a number of under-age teams over the years as my kids grew up. Plenty of times I have seen the full-time coaches come and give their time to these teams and to other similar teams. Not once have I seen a county footballer or hurler or potential one coming through. It is all and was all about the kids, about encouraging participation, about basic skills to get them to enjoy and participate producing health benefits for the country as a whole.

It really does sicken me to see how people focus on the full-time coaches issue when a large part of it required co-funding or part-funding from clubs or schools and the county board but they all saw the benefit for the kids and contributed.

As I have said before, if Mayo spent a bit of money on underage coaching they would be a lot better off than the holidays for the senior team and the warm weather camps that they go on every year.

LeoB · 08-11-2017 5:34pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But surely you can see that this is all relative though? Like you have over 10 times the average population. That means you would have in and around 10 times the number of everything, be is soccer clubs, rugby clubs etc etc. Do you think that the same thing isn't in place in other counties, just on a smaller scale to match their smaller size? The percentage of potential players coming into contact with these sports would be quite similar. Yet other counties get results - worth remembering before you go knocking them...

Firstly I am not trying to knock anyone. I am fairly close to the ground working in communities so I see a lot close up. I work with lads from other counties and what they tell goes on is terrible in terms of delegates who play politics with nearly every issue. That used to happen in Dublin but I can assure it would be very hard to get away with it at Dublin C B from what I have seen, It is fair to say you wouldnt.

What I was pointing out was it is not just a population thing.From what I see Dublin clubs have more competition from various sports. Yes I am aware of soccer and Rugby been widly played now all over Ireland but every community here has serious pressure on playing number. Other sports, mainly soccer and to a lessar extent Rugby done serious damage to Dublin G.A.A towards the end of 70s just at the end of Heffo;s team. It is nearly as far back as that that Dublin recognized something had to be done. It took time, maybe 10-12 years to get plans up and running and it took another 15 years to get it right. I think what has been done in Dublin can be replicated but it wont happen overnight. People seem tyo think we will appoint a coach and we will get success. You wont. You have to look long term at least 5 to 7 years if you start with U/12s

The funding of the coachs is been raised here also. We have a GPO who works in the 5 local schools but soo have the F.A.I, I.R.F.U and Leinster cricket. If we dont have a GPO our club would fold. Our juvenile committee raise the money through all the usual fundraisers, we have tea/coffee shop at all events on a Saturday. Parents supply everything. Teenage discos and raffles are also ran. It is non stop. There are smaller clubs who share a GPO.

On the emigration thing people seem to think nobody emigrate from here. Our senior team played last Sunday and our Full back line was between Oz and Norway working our CHB is in Siberia and Alaska on a 12 month contract, one of our MF in in Canada on a 2 year deal and 3 of our forwards in UK. We replaced them and jigged things around but the players who came in were at least very well coached and we had a good year. We are a small club trying to compete with Vincents, Crokes Na Fianna etc (we actually beat each of them this year). By doing things right we can compete but we cant replicate what they have. One of my earlier points was I believe with the right people at the helm more counties would be competing for honours. But it takes time and most dont have patience to see it out.

Finally maybe the county to replicate are Tyrone. They have a brilliant set-up top class coachs and good facilities and their work will pay big dividends in next few years.

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 5:41pm

blanch152 wrote: »

In an earlier post you said there were 80 full-time coaches.

Do you know what these coaches do? They go into primary and secondary schools, they work with juvenile teams in clubs.

I have been involved with a number of under-age teams over the years as my kids grew up. Plenty of times I have seen the full-time coaches come and give their time to these teams and to other similar teams. Not once have I seen a county footballer or hurler or potential one coming through. It is all and was all about the kids, about encouraging participation, about basic skills to get them to enjoy and participate producing health benefits for the country as a whole.

It really does sicken me to see how people focus on the full-time coaches issue when a large part of it required co-funding or part-funding from clubs or schools and the county board but they all saw the benefit for the kids and contributed.

As I have said before, if Mayo spent a bit of money on underage coaching they would be a lot better off than the holidays for the senior team and the warm weather camps that they go on every year.

Which is it? Is it 70 or 80???? I don't know I keep hearing different accounts so I don't know the actual figure , I do know normal counties have at most 4 or 5 trying to cover far larger geographical areas

I have no problem with the kids getting the top class coaching, the issue is why cant the AIG and all the other sponsors money not go to funding this initiative and let the GAA allocate the Dublin funding (or at least the vast bulk of it) to the rest of the country???

It might mean a significant reduction in the backroom teams of the IC setups but since these aren't relevant factors as ye make out then what is the hesitation?

''We wont give a cent of our disproportionate funding to the culchies who need funding desperately because we need to kill off the games in the rest of the country''

https://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/shanley-vows-to-carry-on-the-fight-to-preserve-funding-for-dublin-coaching-31000348.html

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2016/12/06/news/gaa-needs-new-revenue-to-help-weaker-counties-costello-819899/

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-to-resist-any-cuts-to-central-gaa-funding-1.1908845

danganabu · 08-11-2017 6:26pm

blanch152 wrote: »

That simply isn't true.

Kilkenny's record over the last decade and a half in hurling is far better.

I actually agree with your overriding point and find this pointing the finger at Dublin for others shortcomings as particularly annoying, but comparing Gaelic Football and Hurling is completely futile and disingenuous. All they have in common is their governing body.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 7:29pm

blanch152 wrote: »

In an earlier post you said there were 80 full-time coaches.

Do you know what these coaches do? They go into primary and secondary schools, they work with juvenile teams in clubs.

I have been involved with a number of under-age teams over the years as my kids grew up. Plenty of times I have seen the full-time coaches come and give their time to these teams and to other similar teams. Not once have I seen a county footballer or hurler or potential one coming through. It is all and was all about the kids, about encouraging participation, about basic skills to get them to enjoy and participate producing health benefits for the country as a whole.

It really does sicken me to see how people focus on the full-time coaches issue when a large part of it required co-funding or part-funding from clubs or schools and the county board but they all saw the benefit for the kids and contributed.

As I have said before, if Mayo spent a bit of money on underage coaching they would be a lot better off than the holidays for the senior team and the warm weather camps that they go on every year.

So the coaches arent helping the dublin County team is what you are trying to say...
You could always cut the funding then. Get rid, sure they arent helping...

Also if as you suggest, they dont help the intercounty team by developing players, then what good would it be to mayo to spend money on underage coaches? Contradicting yourself there...

Bonniedog · 08-11-2017 8:08pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If you don't know the advantage Dublin have over Mayo and the rest of the country, you should read the opening post of the thread.

It is (c).

Thank you for playing...

howiya · 08-11-2017 8:31pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Bonniedog wrote: »

I don't buy into this "Mayo are losers" narrative, but your continuous excusing of them not winning against another bunch of lads from Dublin from same sort of backgrounds, same sort of clubs, and despite the reference to "professionalism" don't get paid, is bordering on self pity.

This happens to be exceptional group of Dublin footballers overseen since 2010 by an exceptional group on the lines.

Don't worry, you will be back calling us chokers when it ends. Meanwhile we shall enjoy watching one of the, if not THE, best teams of all time.

You underestimate people if you think they are still buying this, wonderfully vague 'great bunch of lads' routine. There has been a huge turnover of players in the Dublin squad since 2011. In fact most of the guys who were involved in 2011 that are still there are now in their 30s. They even played a reserve team in one competition last year, and still won it...

As for 'same sort of clubs', I think you will find that nobody has the type of clubs Dublin have. In fact some county teams don't have what the some Dublin clubs have.

You can try to redirect the debate onto mayo all you like, it doesn't change the reality outlined on the thread Im afraid. Come out of the gutter and discuss the thing properly.

howiya wrote: »

The soccer forum is over there somewhere...
Can you not answer the question?

I answered your question fully. The juggernaut doesn't go into reverse on the back of a single loss. The suggestion is ridiculous.

No you didn't answer the question. Instead you rambled on about Real Madrid and Leicester. The clue was in the question. If the question is about Mayo, then there is a good chance the answer is about Mayo.
Mayo could have easily won the last two finals. The point is that they are competitive with Dublin. They are a great team. If they are able to compete with this juggernaut as you call it then it points to Mayo being out of kilter with all of the other teams.
How do you propose to equalise things between Mayo and Leitrim and Sligo in Connacht? Or is it just that you want Dublin out of the way so we can put an asterisk beside a handy All-Ireland for Mayo?

LeoB · 08-11-2017 8:32pm

TrueGael wrote: »

If you speak to people in these other Leinster counties they have only themselves to blame and most will admit it. They have crap structures, there is vitriolic hatred in some counties among clubs and no matter what happens with Dublin until these counties sort themselves out nothing will change. Each of those counties could have clones of Stephen Hawking and Albert Einstein but you have no chance of competing against a region with 15,20,25 and more times population and funding in the long run

We dont have 20 times the playing population of any county.

This population thing sure Dublin have over 1,000,000 people. Dublin also has 15 A.I.L Rugby clubs, 7 L.O.I soccer clubs, 14 All-Ireland cricket clubs and this is only the start of the competition facing Dublin G.A.A every day. My home town has about 8,500 people but we have to compete with a very good soccer club, a top club both of who field at every age group. We have a top class sailing club so before we start our playing population has diminished considerably. Some of the clubs in these other codes are huge, Look at clubs like Home farm or Crumlin in Soccer or Blackrock, Clontarf IN Rugby who often field 3 teams at each age group that is serious competition for Dublin G.A.A. to compete with. If you are not organized you will be an also ran. Dublin GAA got good structures in place 25 years ago and knew it would take time. What I have seen in other counties is politics ruining good basic structures. Big egos with no balls. Firstly it's closer to a million and a HALF which will grow to 2 MILLION by 2040,

Secondly there are other sports in the other counties no wonder rugby has grown so much in alienated Leinster counties who are disillusioned trying to compete with the Dublin monster.

Thirdly you don't have to face up to rampant emigration which is eating rural Ireland and particularly the Western Seaboard alive

You can have the greatest structures in the world they are no good without €€€€€€ behind it and the €€€€€€€€€€ isn't there to fund 32 counties to the extent Dublin were

You dont know a lot about Dublin. Firstly Rugby has developed in these counties as it is better ran than the G.A.A. at club level. We are back to politics causing too much trouble in some counties.
The suburbs where G.A.A is strong also has serious emigration, not to the extent of the Western seaboard. Next time you are in Dublin have a look at the buildings that have been closed that used to house companies.

Look at West and South Dublin with a big population explosion. 3 new clubs but I know for a fact there are families living in these suburbs who go back to Kildare, Wicklow, Louth and Meath to play for their home clubs which is no harm so it aint all rosy in the Dublin garden but thankfully we have people who are very committed to their clubs and communities. Which ignores all the Dublin people living in Meath, Kildare and Wicklow who have absolutely no interest in supporting the GAA clubs there and make their kids support Dublin which is the exact opposite to what has happened in Dublin

You are wrong again. This is a two way street. There are plenty of kids around Dublin 15, 7 and 11 playing club football in Meath. FACT. Of course people who have moved out to Navan, Newbridge Drogheda and other satellite towns come back to support Dublin but not all their kids come back to play. I have had sessions with Galway, Tipp, Laoise and Mayo jerseys on kids. Do you expect them to go back and play with their parents clubs?

So what needs to be done? Maybe bring in outside people to run other counties affairs starting at juvenile level.Maybe we need to do away with our current structures all together, where every county with over 100,000 people should field 2 teams either North and South or East and West. Or lets go with 2 teams from Kerry, Galway Mayo, in football and Tipp Cork Kilkenny, Galway, Clare all have 2 in hurling. But the anti Dublin sentiment is unhelpful without a constructive proposal. So because of the Dublin monster we have to rip up 130+ years of history in the GAA? So you would be happy to field 10 Dublin teams then? If you are happy winning easy ttiles versus handicapped small counties great but you'll never get the respect you and the horde paranoid Dublin twitter fans (who wouldn't name 10 clubs can great at berating opposition players though) absolutely crave

I dont care if Dublin field 10 or twenty teams to be honest so long as it is A, B, C etc.
The best and most entertaining quotes I see on Twitter, facebook or Boards are from our good country folk. The bitterness is unbelievable from some. Its no wonder there is such a divide and a growing hatred towards one or two counties.

In previous posts in another thread I tipped Mayo and Tyrone to meet in AI final. Thought Mayo had timed it to perfection. Alas I was wrong. Now did Mayo bottle it on the field or on the line? Im not sure. But Kerry or Tyrone in that position would now be all Ireland champions..

Mutant z · 08-11-2017 8:43pm

Suddenly Dublin start to get a period of dominance and if not for a moment of utter madness from Mayo could very well have been defeated in this years AI, in fact Dublin have won each of their most recent AI championship titles by a solitary point and came close to losing at least 2 of them, but apparently they are the most dominant team anyone has ever seen, Kerry were much more dominant in the 70s and 80s and over the last 50 years in general than Dublin have been but no one has ever suggested they should be split up so I don't know why it should be the case with Dublin .

tritium · 08-11-2017 9:01pm

Mutant z wrote: »

Suddenly Dublin start to get a period of dominance and if not for a moment of utter madness from Mayo could very well have been defeated in this years AI, in fact Dublin have won each of their most recent AI championship titles by a solitary point and came close to losing at least 2 of them, but apparently they are the most dominant team anyone has ever seen, Kerry were much more dominant in the 70s and 80s and over the last 50 years in general than Dublin have been but no one has ever suggested they should be split up so I don't know why it should be the case with Dublin .

Shh dont start coming out with facts it might interfere with the bitterness.

Im sure our two experts will be along shortly to set you straight on the Juggernaut and the pure shkill of their county that anyone could easily replicate even without pulling in a million quid from friends in the states ( oh i forgot, that ok because it was good kerry diaspora and not some international corporation chipping in - kerry based international corporations are ok though....)

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 9:44pm

Mutant z wrote: »

Suddenly Dublin start to get a period of dominance and if not for a moment of utter madness from Mayo could very well have been defeated in this years AI, in fact Dublin have won each of their most recent AI championship titles by a solitary point and came close to losing at least 2 of them, but apparently they are the most dominant team anyone has ever seen, Kerry were much more dominant in the 70s and 80s and over the last 50 years in general than Dublin have been but no one has ever suggested they should be split up so I don't know why it should be the case with Dublin .

It has been explained on the thread.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 9:50pm

tritium wrote: »

Shh dont start coming out with facts it might interfere with the bitterness.

Im sure our two experts will be along shortly to set you straight on the Juggernaut and the pure shkill of their county that anyone could easily replicate even without pulling in a million quid from friends in the states ( oh i forgot, that ok because it was good kerry diaspora and not some international corporation chipping in - kerry based international corporations are ok though....)

No actually the reason it is ok is because there is nothing stopping the majority of other counties replicating their ingenuity when it comes to fundraising.
It's ridiculous, you laud those involved with dublin for simply making use of their vast numbers - in fairness a fairly obvious step, yet you stick the boot into kerry for finding a way to make money from their, in comparison to dublin, miniscule resources.
Get over yourself ffs.

Bonniedog · 08-11-2017 10:04pm

Are Dublin players paid?

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 10:05pm

LeoB wrote: »

Firstly I am not trying to knock anyone. I am fairly close to the ground working in communities so I see a lot close up. I work with lads from other counties and what they tell goes on is terrible in terms of delegates who play politics with nearly every issue. That used to happen in Dublin but I can assure it would be very hard to get away with it at Dublin C B from what I have seen, It is fair to say you wouldnt.

What I was pointing out was it is not just a population thing.From what I see Dublin clubs have more competition from various sports. Yes I am aware of soccer and Rugby been widly played now all over Ireland but every community here has serious pressure on playing number. Other sports, mainly soccer and to a lessar extent Rugby done serious damage to Dublin G.A.A towards the end of 70s just at the end of Heffo;s team. It is nearly as far back as that that Dublin recognized something had to be done. It took time, maybe 10-12 years to get plans up and running and it took another 15 years to get it right. I think what has been done in Dublin can be replicated but it wont happen overnight. People seem tyo think we will appoint a coach and we will get success. You wont. You have to look long term at least 5 to 7 years if you start with U/12s

The funding of the coachs is been raised here also. We have a GPO who works in the 5 local schools but soo have the F.A.I, I.R.F.U and Leinster cricket. If we dont have a GPO our club would fold. Our juvenile committee raise the money through all the usual fundraisers, we have tea/coffee shop at all events on a Saturday. Parents supply everything. Teenage discos and raffles are also ran. It is non stop. There are smaller clubs who share a GPO.

On the emigration thing people seem to think nobody emigrate from here. Our senior team played last Sunday and our Full back line was between Oz and Norway working our CHB is in Siberia and Alaska on a 12 month contract, one of our MF in in Canada on a 2 year deal and 3 of our forwards in UK. We replaced them and jigged things around but the players who came in were at least very well coached and we had a good year. We are a small club trying to compete with Vincents, Crokes Na Fianna etc (we actually beat each of them this year). By doing things right we can compete but we cant replicate what they have. One of my earlier points was I believe with the right people at the helm more counties would be competing for honours. But it takes time and most dont have patience to see it out.

Finally maybe the county to replicate are Tyrone. They have a brilliant set-up top class coachs and good facilities and their work will pay big dividends in next few years.

I appreciate the effort you put into your post there, but i have to repeat the point - competition from other sports is relative. Dublin have over 10 times the average population so they are going to have more clubs in every sport -
10 times more at a minimum. However you are trying to say that this equats to more of a draw, but the data you are providing doesnt prove this.

Re replicating a county, any of kerry tyrone or mayo would be the ones to adopt. Personally id go for mayo, as they have the lowest population yet have been the most consistantly competitive of the 3 in this decade. I accept they have a debt, but i see no issue with how it came about - anyone building and maintaining their own decent sized stadium are going to need a large outlay all at once.
Kerry is obviously the standard bearer, but they have a culture of gaa that would take a long time to develop.

blanch152 · 08-11-2017 10:08pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So the coaches arent helping the dublin County team is what you are trying to say...
You could always cut the funding then. Get rid, sure they arent helping...

Also if as you suggest, they dont help the intercounty team by developing players, then what good would it be to mayo to spend money on underage coaches? Contradicting yourself there...

Dublin don't spend money on warm weather training camps. Guess who does?

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21772:mayo-jet-out-to-portugal-for-training-camp&catid=14&Itemid=100008

Though in 2016 they only got to London.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/are-warm-weather-training-camps-back-in-fashion-387282.html

Now, if Mayo were really impoverished, they wouldn't be able to do that.

As I repeatedly say, Dublin put their money into the juvenile scene, not into the senior team. That is the lesson that Mayo need to learn from Dublin.

Dots1982 · 08-11-2017 10:09pm

The same yawn inducing point scoring debates and denials of the bleeding obvious.

The debate boils down to one thing.

If Dublin Domination is good for the GAA, the GAA will continue to support it. If Dublin Domination is bad for the GAA, the GAA will look to end it.

Bonniedog · 08-11-2017 10:12pm

We are also competitive in both sports at all levels and have multiple teams and huge county championships. Not to mention camogie and womens football which also get some of the sponsorship.

I'll be jiggered if I ever apologise for Dublin GAA.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 10:13pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Are Dublin players paid?

Hard to say. Are they given money? Probably not. Are they given everything soft/free which in any other walk of life would be frowned upon? Probably.

What i do find interesting is of all the great young dublin footballers coming out, not a single one has chanced their arm at aussie rules. When you consider that many are perfectly suited to it, you would have to wonder how not a single one has gone.
Also, id be interested to know what sort of work c kilkenny has had since his return from his short stint out there.

MayoAreMagic · 08-11-2017 10:16pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

We are also competitive in both sports at all levels and have multiple teams and huge county championships. Not to mention camogie and womens football which also get some of the sponsorship.

I'll be jiggered if I ever apologise for Dublin GAA.

Nobody is asking for an apology, just fair competition. How do you think you would fair if you had to split into areas of population the same as kerry? Do that, and get some success, then you will have others patting you on the back, rather than having to do it yourself all the time..

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 10:37pm

tritium wrote: »

Shh dont start coming out with facts it might interfere with the bitterness.

Im sure our two experts will be along shortly to set you straight on the Juggernaut and the pure shkill of their county that anyone could easily replicate even without pulling in a million quid from friends in the states ( oh i forgot, that ok because it was good kerry diaspora and not some international corporation chipping in - kerry based international corporations are ok though....)

There is a difference between FUNDRAISING and been HANDED millions from the Government and GAA which nobody else receives which leads to others having to jump through hoops in terms of trying to keep up with the Monster

TrueGael · 08-11-2017 10:40pm

As I repeatedly say, Dublin put their money into the juvenile scene, not into the senior team. That is the lesson that Mayo need to learn from Dublin.

No they don't the GAA HQ and Sport Ireland do and have done since the mid 00's Thanks Bertie which allows the AIG and all the others money go to building an ever growing professional backroom team providing services which no one else could even dream of

The GAA, the future and itâ€™s choices and options

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