The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

TOss Sweep · 27-10-2017 08:49PM

I would agree I get he wasn't the best QB in the league and there is a fair few teams who definitely dont need and a few others that he would not fit their system but there is plenty of teams who he would be an upgrade on all of the QBs they have on their roster. Not a fan of Kaep at all as a player but he is not as bad as people make out.

I will be honest at first I would have said his ability was the reason but as the season progresses and you see the sh1t QBs take the field and get roster spots and the reaction to the kneeling it is clear as day he was blacklisted. No Owner or Coach wants him on the roster due to the distractions.

jack presley · 27-10-2017 08:55PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

No Owner or Coach wants him on the roster due to the distractions.

That makes sense and I can understand it but surely there's a point when the distraction is worth it when your alternative is matt Moore or Ryan Mallett

TOss Sweep · 27-10-2017 09:09PM

jack presley wrote: »

That makes sense and I can understand it but surely there's a point when the distraction is worth it when your alternative is matt Moore or Ryan Mallett

I agree but just look at the Houston Owner today. This is what Kaep is up against. I see the owners as 3 groups and forgive me for being slightly political here. Left wing, Fence sitters and Right wing. Opinions of Kap based on which side they see themselves. Lets be honest far too many Americans decide on everything based on their political agenda.

Billy86 · 27-10-2017 10:00PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I doubt it. A lot of people seem to forget just how crap Kaepernick has been for a long time. He might feel like he was blacklisted but he wasn't good enough for that to be true.

Someone wasn't watching last season, then. He's no great QB but there is absolutely no chance in hell that these numbers do not merit a spot on a roster for a QB with over 1,850 career pass attempts, 13,500+ passing yards, another 2,800 on the ground, plenty of playoff experience and being the starting QB in a team that came within six yards of winning the Superbowl who doesn't even turn 30 for a few weeks.

Colin Kaepernick 2016: 59.2% accuracy (26th), 4.8% TD percentage (13th), 1.2% INT percentage (6th), 7.2 average ypa (16th), 90.7 rating (17th), 468 scrambling yards (2nd, despite only starting 11 games and with the highest YPC at 6.8).

Extrapolate his numbers to a 16 game season and you have 285-of-481 for 3,260 yards, 23TDs and 5-6INTs, as well as another 680yds on the ground.

This despite one of the poorer offensive lines in the league, the second highest drop rate among receivers in the entire league and having the league's worst defense both for points and yards meaning playing from behind consistently. And on a team that was absolute rock bottom on morale from before the season even began due to being hit worse than probably any other team I have ever seen in terms of high profile retirements and long term injuries.

By comparison Blaine Gabbert (who started the other 5) was throwing less accurately (56.9%), for way less average yards per attempt (4.7), was throwing touchdowns at a much lower clip (3.1%) and his INT percentage was over three times as high (3.8%) leading to a much lower passer rating of 68.4; he was also obviously scrambling for less yards per game and less per attempt (despite actually doing a decent job in that department with 173 and 4.3). Yet Gabbert, who is only 13 months younger than Kaepernick, got himself a job all the way back in May.

Out of interest if we extrapolate Gabbert we get 291-of-512 for 2,960 yards, 16TDs, 19-20INTs and another 553 rushing yards.

Interestingly, the only QBs with lower ratings than Gabbert (who obviously like Kaepernick was in very difficult circumstances) were Derek Anderson, Jared Goff (major asterisk beside him though), Bryce Petty, Scott Tolzien, Matt McGloin, Drew Stanton, and EJ Manuel. And yet every single one of them is either currently with a team, or was leading into the season (McGloin got cut in September).

I mean you suggested it would be better for Green Bay to address the lack of playing experience at QB with Rodgers out by giving up draft picks for Chase Daniel (a 31 year old with 78 career pass attempts and just three pass attempts over the last 2.5 seasons) or Sean Mannion (who has 14 career pass attempts and would likely cost fair little bit) rather than consider Kaepernick for free - is this really about performance?

Knex* · 27-10-2017 10:56PM

I thought in his first few years that Kaep was heavily overrated. But he's absolutely deserving of a job in the NFL, and potentially a starting role, albeit it a below average one for me. Once the read option was figured out his value came down a bit. He's not reliable or accurate enough in the pocket to be a franchise QB, imo.

Regardless, we already have owners coming out saying they never received more mails from fans about anything than when they were linked with signing Kaepernick. Fans and police officers saying they'd refuse to come to games and would be disgusted with the decision etc. etc.

There's no doubt in my mind that owners fear that the majority of Americans don't agree with Kaep, and as a result they're brand and pockets would take a hit. For them, Kaepernick's talent doesn't offset the media and financial impact they would receive from signing him.

If he was a better player, I'm sure they'd do it. Its not morals at play here, I believe. Standard NFL procedure. Profit and attempting to save face under scrutiny.

Paully D · 27-10-2017 11:26PM

Dareus trading to the Jags. Their defensive line is ridiculous :eek:

28-10-2017 01:40AM

Paully D wrote: »

Dareus trading to the Jags. Their defensive line is ridiculous :eek:

They could make a serious playoff run with this team of fornette stays healthy

Realt Dearg Sec · 28-10-2017 01:45AM

Haven't seen anything of them other than fournette highlights really, how is their QB situation looking?

Paully D · 28-10-2017 01:52AM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Haven't seen anything of them other than fournette highlights really, how is their QB situation looking?

I'm probably his biggest critic on here, but to be fair he has been very good in the red zone from what I've seen.

Aside from that, he's still same old Bortles IMO. Overall, no better or worse than last season though the Jags are taking the ball out of his hands a lot more which gives the perception that he's being more effective (which isn't true, he's still throwing INT's at the same rate as last year).

j8wk2feszrnpao · 28-10-2017 08:48AM

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not really. Goddell is extremely well paid by said owners. He puts his head into the sand when told.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 28-10-2017 08:59AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I doubt it. A lot of people seem to forget just how crap Kaepernick has been for a long time. He might feel like he was blacklisted but he wasn't good enough for that to be true.

He was crap and a lot of people totally over rate him.
But he is good enough to be a backup for plenty of teams.

The owners reaction is probably less based on their own feelings than it is because of the fan base (and the American public in general). The anthem/flag protest has turned a number of people away from games (live or on TV) and that's without Kap at games. The Ravens clearly wanted to sign him, but the fan reaction probably ended their interest.

I thought from the start that it was a stupid way to protest. Kap and the flag/anthem wasn't the issue; but they became the issue, and the real discussion became sidelined. The flag/anthem are a big deal for so many people, even with those who agree with the principles that Kap was protesting about, that it has turned alot of people away from him.

The guy shouldn't be blacklisted. But this is politics, an arena he decided to enter.

Billy86 · 28-10-2017 10:53AM

I'm highly skeptical about how much the protesting has to do with 'the flag' or 'the troops' at all to be honest - many servicemen and women have come out to remind people that the right to peaceful protest is right there in the constitution. The Jets fan literally rubbing the American flag into the dirt with his ass as he sat on while wearing a "I stand for the national anthem!" t-shirt really summed the whole thing up perfectly.

28-10-2017 10:57AM

Paully D wrote: »

I'm probably his biggest critic on here, but to be fair he has been very good in the red zone from what I've seen.

Aside from that, he's still same old Bortles IMO. Overall, no better or worse than last season though the Jags are taking the ball out of his hands a lot more which gives the perception that he's being more effective (which isn't true, he's still throwing INT's at the same rate as last year).

Having fornette is huge for a qb realistically he is always going to get 1-1 coverage on any player on the outside any good qb should perform well with that

OldMrBrennan83 · 28-10-2017 10:59AM

This post has been deleted.

28-10-2017 11:01AM

Patww79 wrote: »

A career passer rating of 90 doesn't scream crap to me.

Does not tell the whole story though he gets a lot of yards points when the d is playing prevent like a historic amount and he has had a good offence around him so he should have that

Billy86 · 28-10-2017 11:26AM

I think Pat meant Kaepernick there, and not Bortles who despite all that junk time/prevent defense he has played against has a career rating of 80.

OldMrBrennan83 · 28-10-2017 11:32AM

This post has been deleted.

Blut2 · 28-10-2017 11:54AM

Kaep isn't a top tier QB but hes easily low/mid tier for starting QBs, and better than probably any back-up in the league. His stats, and watching any of his games, bear that out. He'd definitely help out a number of teams with QB injury problems at the moment on the field if he was brought in as a replacement. But his political antics have unfortunately made him untouchable. Hes just not worth the long-term fan blowback for owners to bring him in as short-term coverage.

Billy86 · 28-10-2017 12:25PM

Blut2 wrote: »

Kaep isn't a top tier QB but hes easily low/mid tier for starting QBs, and better than probably any back-up in the league. His stats, and watching any of his games, bear that out. He'd definitely help out a number of teams with QB injury problems at the moment on the field if he was brought in as a replacement. But his political antics have unfortunately made him untouchable. Hes just not worth the long-term fan blowback for owners to bring him in as short-term coverage.

That's where the hypocrisy of the league blacklisting him shows though - his 'antics' were kneeling kneeling for the anthem as a form of respectful and peaceful protest. By that measure shouldn't probably over 100 players be in the same boat and be forced out of the league if not during the year, then during the offseason?

j8wk2feszrnpao · 28-10-2017 02:50PM

Billy86 wrote: »

That's where the hypocrisy of the league blacklisting him shows though - his 'antics' were kneeling kneeling for the anthem as a form of respectful and peaceful protest. By that measure shouldn't probably over 100 players be in the same boat and be forced out of the league if not during the year, then during the offseason?

For many people, it has not been respectful; hence the (OTT for me, but having visited the US I know the feelings many have there for the anthemn/flag) outcry from a lot of people.

Of course it's hypocrisy, but it's political, and political institutions are full of it.

Billy86 · 28-10-2017 05:03PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

For many people, it has not been respectful; hence the (OTT for me, but having visited the US I know the feelings many have there for the anthemn/flag) outcry from a lot of people.

Of course it's hypocrisy, but it's political, and political institutions are full of it.

What I'm saying though is that it's not the kneeling that they find disrespectful.

eagle eye · 29-10-2017 03:31AM

So just to clarify, Kaepernick is not good enough to start in the league, he couldn't even get on the field for one of the worst teams with a very poor QB roster before he decided to kneel during the national anthem.

So let's take that on board and move on to after he became a media personality for kneeling. If I were a head coach I wouldn't want him in my locker room because it's very likely to cause disruption. There will be players who won't like him because he kneeled and started this whole thing, and there will be players who will stand or kneel with him which could end up causing a split in the locker room.

This suggestion that he has been blacklisted for taking a knee is wrong imo. He is not on a roster because nobody wants him.

OldMrBrennan83 · 29-10-2017 05:32AM

This post has been deleted.

29-10-2017 07:57AM

eagle eye wrote: »

There will be players who won't like him because he kneeled and started this whole thing, and there will be players who will stand or kneel with him which could end up causing a split in the locker room.

Has it caused splits in other locker rooms? In any locker room?

Take the Pats, Brady is a friend of Trump, others have taken a knee. Has it caused a split there?

eagle eye · 29-10-2017 09:42AM

Deleted User wrote:

Has it caused splits in other locker rooms? In any locker room?Take the Pats, Brady is a friend of Trump, others have taken a knee. Has it caused a split there?

Kaepernick was never with the Patriots.

raze_them_all_ · 29-10-2017 10:42AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Kaepernick was never with the Patriots.

He didnt say it has.

Billy86 · 29-10-2017 12:41PM

eagle eye wrote: »

So just to clarify, Kaepernick is not good enough to start in the league, he couldn't even get on the field for one of the worst teams with a very poor QB roster before he decided to kneel during the national anthem.

So let's take that on board and move on to after he became a media personality for kneeling.

Bullsh*t. He started kneeling in the preseason and was dropped in week 12. Initially he sat, but after meeting with a retired Green Beret he was brought to the conclusion that taking a knee was a more respectful way to go about it. I've already shown you how he completely outplayed Gabbert last season, and played better than a lot of QBs despite as you concede, being on one of the worst teams in the league with a poor offensive line, the second worst drop rate among his receivers, and the league's worst defense both for yards and points meaning playing from behind consistently.

If I were a head coach I wouldn't want him in my locker room because it's very likely to cause disruption. There will be players who won't like him because he kneeled and started this whole thing, and there will be players who will stand or kneel with him which could end up causing a split in the locker room.

Also bullsh*t, players have been kneeling all over the league this season from more or less every team. For example can we assume you want every one of these players dropped by NE and cut at the end of the year for dividing the Patriots locker room?

This suggestion that he has been blacklisted for taking a knee is wrong imo. He is not on a roster because nobody wants him.

It's not even remotely wrong, which I have addressed at length a few posts back. He is being blacklisted and made an example of while many hide behind the the 'but but but... the flag and the troops!' bullsh*t. Here is what Kaepernick had to say on the matter initially:

"I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought have for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right."

And here is what many 'I stand for the national anthem!' folks really think of the flag:

For all too many it's not about the troops, it's not about the flag, it's not about his play, and saying he would be divisive in a league where nearly every team has had players kneeling doesn't hold water either.

Paully D · 29-10-2017 01:11PM

La Canfora reporting that the Dolphins will be cutting Suh after this season.

Billy86 · 29-10-2017 01:15PM

Paully D wrote: »

La Canfora reporting that the Dolphins will be cutting Suh after this season.

Interesting, he's 30 but still has something to offer and was second team all pro last season. There have been attitude, dirtiness and work ethic concerns down the years over him, but if he's cheap and looking for a chance to win stuff I reckon this may have Patriots 1-2 year inexplicably low cost deal written all over it.

eagle eye · 29-10-2017 03:53PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Bullsh*t. He started kneeling in the preseason and was dropped in week 12. Initially he sat, but after meeting with a retired Green Beret he was brought to the conclusion that taking a knee was a more respectful way to go about it. I've already shown you how he completely outplayed Gabbert last season, and played better than a lot of QBs despite as you concede, being on one of the worst teams in the league with a poor offensive line, the second worst drop rate among his receivers, and the league's worst defense both for yards and points meaning playing from behind consistently.

Also bullsh*t, players have been kneeling all over the league this season from more or less every team. For example can we assume you want every one of these players dropped by NE and cut at the end of the year for dividing the Patriots locker room?

It's not even remotely wrong, which I have addressed at length a few posts back. He is being blacklisted and made an example of while many hide behind the the 'but but but... the flag and the troops!' bullsh*t. Here is what Kaepernick had to say on the matter initially:

"I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up, as far as giving freedom and justice, liberty to everybody. That’s something that’s not happening. I’ve seen videos, I’ve seen circumstances where men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly by the country they fought have for, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right."

And here is what many 'I stand for the national anthem!' folks really think of the flag:

For all too many it's not about the troops, it's not about the flag, it's not about his play, and saying he would be divisive in a league where nearly every team has had players kneeling doesn't hold water either.

That is like something you'd hear from a politician trying to get elected.

That post is, to use your own word, Bullsh*t.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

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