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Discovery 1x06 – "Lethe" [** SPOILERS **]
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23-10-2017 1:21am#1
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OK, I'll give this another try...
First, on the ears... the prosthetic is definitely sharper - more pointed if you will
- and just doesn't look right IMO .. like everything else in this series and to varying degrees, it's been tweaked for the sake of it and that in fact is part of the underlying problem.
There's not ONE character on this show that I like, even after 6 episodes. Ensign Tilly is probably the closest to what I'd expect. The rest... brooding, edgy, conflicted types who argue with each other a lot... which is fine - previous Trek had those characters too, but not making up the entire core crew.
Then there's the designs.. dark, usually badly lit, and again not fitting into what we know of the era. You can't even say "well Discovery is a super-secret Prototype" because they've fecked with EVERYTHING.. shuttles, alien ships and races (especially the Klingons) "just coz".
I've no problem with change if the changes make sense.. but remember all of this is supposedly to line up with what we saw in TOS. I am not talking about blinking lights and switches, but these ships, these PEOPLE and their attitudes/ethos, are not the Starfleet and Federation we've seen,
and those certainly aren't the Klingons we know (they did get the Vulcans about right this week though) - they wouldn't even fit into TNG/DS9. Despite this, we're supposed to accept that in less than 10 years, all of this behaviour and bitterness will be largely put behind them and they'll
transform into the Starfleet/Federation we know. As has been said lots of times, the entire series would fit better tonally after VOY, or in a Mirror Universe, or just not part of the Trek franchise at all.
The comparisons to the Orville are valid. It may have been marketed as a comedy/spoof by Fox, but it's shown to have a lot more depth in reality and tonally fits far better with TNG. Likeable characters, optimistic and even humor!
Now I know that in our "mature" TV market of gritty realism, graphic violence and dizzying special effects, TNG in 2017 would probably look "wrong" too.. but I think that the Orville has shown there's still a real market for that STYLE of sci-fi.
Maybe I'm just not the target market for this show as I've never watched the Walking Dead, and Game of Thrones is something I've only slowly started watching, and I don't expect - or want - either of these from Star Trek.0 -
OK, I'll give this another try...
First, on the ears... the prosthetic is definitely sharper - more pointed if you will - and just doesn't look right IMO .. like everything else in this series and to varying degrees, it's been tweaked for the sake of it and that in fact is part of the underlying problem.
There's not ONE character on this show that I like, even after 6 episodes. Ensign Tilly is probably the closest to what I'd expect. The rest... brooding, edgy, conflicted types who argue with each other a lot... which is fine - previous Trek had those characters too, but not making up the entire core crew.
Then there's the designs.. dark, usually badly lit, and again not fitting into what we know of the era. You can't even say "well Discovery is a super-secret Prototype" because they've fecked with EVERYTHING.. shuttles, alien ships and races (especially the Klingons) "just coz".
I've no problem with change if the changes make sense.. but remember all of this is supposedly to line up with what we saw in TOS. I am not talking about blinking lights and switches, but these ships, these PEOPLE and their attitudes/ethos, are not the Starfleet and Federation we've seen,
and those certainly aren't the Klingons we know (they did get the Vulcans about right this week though) - they wouldn't even fit into TNG/DS9. Despite this, we're supposed to accept that in less than 10 years, all of this behaviour and bitterness will be largely put behind them and they'll
transform into the Starfleet/Federation we know. As has been said lots of times, the entire series would fit better tonally after VOY, or in a Mirror Universe, or just not part of the Trek franchise at all.
The comparisons to the Orville are valid. It may have been marketed as a comedy/spoof by Fox, but it's shown to have a lot more depth in reality and tonally fits far better with TNG. Likeable characters, optimistic and even humor!
Now I know that in our "mature" TV market of gritty realism, graphic violence and dizzying special effects, TNG in 2017 would probably look "wrong" too.. but I think that the Orville has shown there's still a real market for that STYLE of sci-fi.
Maybe I'm just not the target market for this show as I've never watched the Walking Dead, and Game of Thrones is something I've only slowly started watching, and I don't expect - or want - either of these from Star Trek.
Taking what you have said, i would run with it as follows:
Vulcan ears: Personally i think this is a non issue. Perhaps they are more pointed and that is different. But surely we would acknowledge that within any species in trek, or nature for that matter, their can be subtle differences in appearance
Characters: Look Kaiser you are kinda preaching to a partially converted on this one. I like lorca, the engineer, and the new security officer in that order from most to least. The rest i genuinely dont like.. with the caveat of saying i am not fans of theirs YET!! Its been 6 episodes..!! Would you as a trekkie, say that by episode 6 of the next generation, you REALLY liked Data? Or Riker? Or even Picard?? Cause i remember as a kid watching them and being upset that spock wasnt on TNG!!:pac:
The Aesthetics of the show in general, lighting, the ship etc: Would you honestly look at the bridge of the NX-01 and say.. Yes i can see how that evolved into the TOS constitution class bridge? It was frequently badly lit, and had controls and LCD screens covering every conceivable inch of space.. Genuinely Kaiser this is simply a more modern show with a more modern aesthetic of Starships and equipment. I am not a fan of prequels and always find it baffling that a show whos fandom obsesses over continuity and canon, continually insists on having Prequels and episodes set in the past!! But its star trek and i can live with it!!
Klingons! Its basically as above pal! Same argument i would say. As a fellow trekkie did you see the Motion Picture and immediately argue that 'Those arent Klingons, why do they have ridges??' We had to wait 20+ years for an explanation to that!!!!! Star Trek has changed and evolved many times and im fine with it. A canon explanation could be that some klingons afflicted with the Eugenics/Mutation Virus chose to use steroid like drugs that worked too well and made them look WAY TOO Klingon - ridges more pronounced - change in pigmentation! Remember when Worf de-evolved in a TNG episode? His skin wasnt unlike what we are seeing now!
As too how it will get to TOS in terms of overall tone? I dont know! But Kaiser we have 6 episodes of a 1st season.. and now thankfully its been renewed! Give it a chance i say, honestly!
I wouldnt debate you on the Orville i just think its a strange comparison. I have watched it and i dont feel its TNG style at all. To be honest i dont know what the orville is. To be honest im not sure the Orville knows what it is! Comedy? Serious Comedy? Serious drama with a dash of comedy? Il keep watching but my jury is way out on it, but again thats me.
Finally, i get what you are saying in that the Tone is subtly different. Its darker for sure. But I want Trek to survive mate. They tried to make enterprise 'fit in' with our view of Trad-Trek and it failed miserably. And excluding JJs outing, Trek faded into the wilderness for many years man. The franchise on TV was dead. This is a genuine attempt to breath life into star trek and im genuinely giving it a chance.
I Like it.. I also have some doubts.. and many questions.. but i like it.0 -
The ears are bizarrely more like the TOS ears than the much slimmer ones we saw in TNG and beyond which does seem to be at odds with all the other changes made.First, on the ears... the prosthetic is definitely sharper - more pointed if you will - and just doesn't look right IMO .. like everything else in this series and to varying degrees, it's been tweaked for the sake of it and that in fact is part of the underlying problem.
I see the evidence is mounting for Lorca being from the mirror universe.
The PT gear having Disco instead of Discovery just doesn't look right.0 -
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I see the evidence is mounting for Lorca being from the mirror universe.
+1 The admiral more or less spelled it out... plus there was a little hint of a reflection of Lorca for no reason at all in the final scene. Are the writers of this show smart enough to try to double-bluff us about Lorca being mirror-Lorca? Before this episode I would have said no, but now I am not sure.FutureGuy wrote:The Vulcans were downright dislikeable in Enterprise and even in DS9...
Yes, but I am quite enjoying this portrayal of Sarek, he is the Phil Dunphy of Vulcans, "Behave"
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OK, I'll give this another try...
First, on the ears... the prosthetic is definitely sharper - more pointed if you will - and just doesn't look right IMO .. like everything else in this series and to varying degrees, it's been tweaked for the sake of it and that in fact is part of the underlying problem.
There's not ONE character on this show that I like, even after 6 episodes. Ensign Tilly is probably the closest to what I'd expect. The rest... brooding, edgy, conflicted types who argue with each other a lot... which is fine - previous Trek had those characters too, but not making up the entire core crew.
Then there's the designs.. dark, usually badly lit, and again not fitting into what we know of the era. You can't even say "well Discovery is a super-secret Prototype" because they've fecked with EVERYTHING.. shuttles, alien ships and races (especially the Klingons) "just coz".
I've no problem with change if the changes make sense.. but remember all of this is supposedly to line up with what we saw in TOS. I am not talking about blinking lights and switches, but these ships, these PEOPLE and their attitudes/ethos, are not the Starfleet and Federation we've seen,
and those certainly aren't the Klingons we know (they did get the Vulcans about right this week though) - they wouldn't even fit into TNG/DS9. Despite this, we're supposed to accept that in less than 10 years, all of this behaviour and bitterness will be largely put behind them and they'll
transform into the Starfleet/Federation we know. As has been said lots of times, the entire series would fit better tonally after VOY, or in a Mirror Universe, or just not part of the Trek franchise at all.
The comparisons to the Orville are valid. It may have been marketed as a comedy/spoof by Fox, but it's shown to have a lot more depth in reality and tonally fits far better with TNG. Likeable characters, optimistic and even humor!
Now I know that in our "mature" TV market of gritty realism, graphic violence and dizzying special effects, TNG in 2017 would probably look "wrong" too.. but I think that the Orville has shown there's still a real market for that STYLE of sci-fi.
Maybe I'm just not the target market for this show as I've never watched the Walking Dead, and Game of Thrones is something I've only slowly started watching, and I don't expect - or want - either of these from Star Trek.
Every new Trek is hated by a small group of militant Trekkies. I believe that TNG had protestors outside the studio - imagine how riled up you’d need to be for that - and Janeway got death threats because she was a woman.
All these Star Trek versions are different. The Vulcans looked different. The captains weren’t exactly the same. Some character or another annoyed somebody.
As for Trek at war - whenever we saw the federation at war, like in yesterday’s enterprise - the mood was somber and grim.0 -
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Not the episode I was expecting at all, given their suggestion of a mirror universe one previously.
.
Wha? stamets has totally flipped. I bet he's the lighthearted mirror stamets instead of grumpy stamets
I love tilly, she's great
Holy moly @ spock!!!!
Those replicators would bug the bejaysus out of me. stop telling me what's in my food or how tasty it's supposed to be and stfu and replicate it!!
I knew the admiral was gonna be in trouble. The second there's a "when i come back", you know it. especially as she was threatening his captaincy.
What was the final scene about? was that his phaser they were closing in on?0 -
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