Off Topic Thread 3.0

Bridge93 · 16-10-2017 08:46PM

Got lucky it seems in Dublin. The most severe of the winds seemed to be just out in the Irish Sea. Dublin seemed to fall in between two bands of intense stuff. Still very strong. Blessed that most the really heavy rain fell over the Atlantic rather than the west coast.

Podge_irl · 16-10-2017 09:39PM

I got stuck in Dublin cause my 9am flight to Amsterdam was cancelled. It seemed incredibly calm at that hour which was a bit annoying.

16-10-2017 10:19PM

awec wrote: »

Look at this twat.

https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/919937061502799872

They should bring in some sort of legislation that you get a fine of some sort if you force emergency services out in a status red. Idiot.

irishbucsfan · 16-10-2017 10:27PM

Emilee Bitter Ginseng wrote: »

They should bring in some sort of legislation that you get a fine of some sort if you force emergency services out in a status red. Idiot.

Endangerment

pickarooney · 16-10-2017 10:43PM

Feckless endangerment

16-10-2017 11:46PM

Have to stay home again tomorrow. Schools closed and Creche not opening until at least 1:00 after inspections and confirmation of staff availability so probably stuck at home for the 4th day in a row...

Burkie1203 · 16-10-2017 11:54PM

Emilee Bitter Ginseng wrote: »

They should bring in some sort of legislation that you get a fine of some sort if you force emergency services out in a status red. Idiot.

Or just leave them to it. Some people are just thick

CatFromHue · 17-10-2017 03:18AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No. If there's a national emergency don't be the selfish bastard that drags the emergency services out to rescue you, even if you think you're the best swimmer in the country.

I would like to hope those people who have been rescued are charged. Endangerment is a serious crime, up to 7 years.

I don't believe this person had to be rescued.

Having to have the emergency services called out is a different matter.

That swell looks bad but actually isn't that bad.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 07:30AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't believe this person had to be rescued.

Having to have the emergency services called out is a different matter.

That swell looks bad but actually isn't that bad.

This is akin to arguing that speed limits should only apply to those who cause accidents

Erik Shin · 17-10-2017 07:40AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is akin to arguing that speed limits should only apply to those who cause accidents

Experienced surfers wait all year for these conditions, 30-40 at Inch yesterday and not an issue....Its the dopes who uses a board once a year on holidays are the guys you have to watch out for.
A better analogy would be, letting an 18yo N driver tear along the Naas dual carriageway at 100kmph during gridlock

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 07:43AM

Erik Shin wrote: »

Experienced surfers wait all year for these conditions, 30-40 at Inch yesterday and not an issue....Its the dopes who uses a board once a year on holidays are the guys you have to watch out for.
A better analogy would be, letting an 18yo N driver tear along the Naas dual carriageway at 100kmph during gridlock

That's of no use whatsoever to emergency services. They have no idea who you are when you're in the sea.

Just don't get in the water when there is a national emergency like that. It's ludicrously simple.

Erik Shin · 17-10-2017 07:49AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's of no use whatsoever to emergency services. They have no idea who you are when you're in the sea.

Just don't get in the water when there is a national emergency like that. It's ludicrously simple.

It's an extreme sport.... people will always chase the waves, yesterday's conditions are what they want and that will never change... have a look at Nazare in Portugal if you want to see what can be done

17-10-2017 07:59AM

Erik Shin wrote: »

It's an extreme sport.... people will always chase the waves, yesterday's conditions are what they want and that will never change... have a look at Nazare in Portugal if you want to see what can be done

That's grand so, completely overstretched emergency services working in extremely difficult conditions be-damned.

Erik Shin · 17-10-2017 08:02AM

Emilee Bitter Ginseng wrote: »

That's grand so, completely overstretched emergency services working in extremely difficult conditions be-damned.

Oh the Humanity!
I have no dog in this fight, just trying to show some that 98% of people out there knew what they were doing yesterday, that's all

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 08:08AM

Erik Shin wrote: »

It's an extreme sport.... people will always chase the waves, yesterday's conditions are what they want and that will never change... have a look at Nazare in Portugal if you want to see what can be done

I mean I spent many years living in Portugal... And I'm very certain they are not an example we want to copy.

It's incredibly selfish behaviour. Its also incorrect to assume that just because people are experienced that they won't require emergency services.

errlloyd · 17-10-2017 08:20AM

I don't really have a problem with it as long as they don't expect unreasonable rescue when **** goes wrong. I imagine this forum will rightfully celebrate Damian Brownes attempt to solo row the Atlantic ocean. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous. As are things like BASE jumping and Wing Suiting. My comparison is the understanding people climbing Everest have that over 7000 metres there will be no attempted rescue if they get in trouble. I am okay with a few surfers taking person risk.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 08:25AM

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with it as long as they don't expect unreasonable rescue when **** goes wrong. I imagine this forum will rightfully celebrate Damian Brownes attempt to solo row the Atlantic ocean. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous. As are things like BASE jumping and Wing Suiting. My comparison is the understanding people climbing Everest have that over 7000 metres there will be no attempted rescue if they get in trouble. I am okay with a few surfers taking person risk.

What do you mean "expect unreasonable rescue"? If they're in a situation where they need unreasonable rescue do you expect the emergency services to hold off? They have no choice, and they aren't the sort of people to hold off.

Extreme sports are not unreasonable in themselves, the other comparisons don't really make much sense. What we're talking about here are people stretching our emergency services at the most critical time for them in decades. Damian Browne is shrewd enough not to do that.

Rigor Mortis · 17-10-2017 08:40AM

It is also significantly more appalling given the purpose of these stay at home notices is to minimise the call outs to what will be stretched emergency services. Emergency lines are going crazy yesterday, they don't need idiots going out in conditions like that.

molloyjh · 17-10-2017 08:59AM

98% knew what they were doing!? Well ignoring the fact that this figure was plucked out of thin air, how are emergency services, or anyone at all, meant to distinguish between the 98% and the other 2%? And surely the 2% are encouraged on by the 98%?

People were told to stay out of the water. They should have stayed out of the god damn water. End of. IBF original speed limit analogy applies here. If most people who speed don’t get into accidents that doesn’t make speeding okay. If most of the time that you speed you don’t get into accidents that doesn’t mean the next time you speed you won’t. Anyone arguing that clearly can’t see the bigger picture at all.

Buer · 17-10-2017 09:00AM

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with it as long as they don't expect unreasonable rescue when **** goes wrong. I imagine this forum will rightfully celebrate Damian Brownes attempt to solo row the Atlantic ocean. It is incredibly difficult and dangerous. As are things like BASE jumping and Wing Suiting. My comparison is the understanding people climbing Everest have that over 7000 metres there will be no attempted rescue if they get in trouble. I am okay with a few surfers taking person risk.

They're not comparable. These guys go out in the full knowledge that the Coast Guard and the RNLI are going to have to scramble a rescue operation if they get into difficulty. They're obliged to do so.

Everest, Base jumping etc. is not going to expect or receive the same response. They go into these situations knowing they could die and they're completely on their own.

Even if people are experienced in the water, to go out yesterday was the height of arrogance. I'd wager the overwhelming majority of Irish people, experienced or not, do not have much experience of those specific conditions yet ventured out knowing fully that they have a safety blanket of other people to bail them out if they get into difficulty.

Eoin Murphy was on Newstalk this morning and said he would be in support of prosecuting anyone who went against such warnings and required rescue which is only right.

It makes me cringe when I saw people out in the conditions yesterday. Even in Dublin, where it was calmer but still extremely stormy, there were people out walking on Howth pier. Anyone who is familiar with that area knows that, even in better conditions than yesterday, a wave is liable to crash over the pier and move anything in its path. Height of stupidity.

17-10-2017 09:08AM

Base jumping is totally different anyway, if something goes wrong you're going to be dead in a couple of seconds and there's nothing anyone can do about it. It misses the point of using up emergency service resources.

errlloyd · 17-10-2017 09:14AM

Buer wrote: »

They're not comparable. These guys go out in the full knowledge that the Coast Guard and the RNLI are going to have to scramble a rescue operation if they get into difficulty. They're obliged to do so.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What do you mean "expect unreasonable rescue"? If they're in a situation where they need unreasonable rescue do you expect the emergency services to hold off? They have no choice, and they aren't the sort of people to hold off.

They didn't call for rescue though. They wouldn't call for rescue. If you asked them to sign a form accepting that they didn't want to be rescued they absolutely would. I see your issue, you don't see mine. Your issue is that the RNLI will feel obliged to rescue them so they shouldn't go surfing. My issue is they want to go surfing so the RNLI shouldn't feel obliged to rescue them.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 09:21AM

errlloyd wrote: »

They didn't call for rescue though. They wouldn't call for rescue. If you asked them to sign a form accepting that they didn't want to be rescued they absolutely would. I see your issue, you don't see mine. Your issue is that the RNLI will feel obliged to rescue them so they shouldn't go surfing. My issue is they want to go surfing so the RNLI shouldn't feel obliged to rescue them.

That's not how any of this works!

Buer · 17-10-2017 09:24AM

errlloyd wrote: »

They didn't call for rescue though. They wouldn't call for rescue. If you asked them to sign a form accepting that they didn't want to be rescued they absolutely would. I see your issue, you don't see mine. Your issue is that the RNLI will feel obliged to rescue them so they shouldn't go surfing. My issue is they want to go surfing so the RNLI shouldn't feel obliged to rescue them.

I see your point, I just think it's completely misguided.

You're assuming that a group of people would sign a form. You've no idea of that in truth and I would strongly suspect a lot of them would be very hesitant to sign a form saying that if a freak wave blindsided them and swept them out they would be happy to take their chances and refuse assistance.

The RNLI and Coast Guard won't "feel obliged". They are obliged. The Coast Guard are a branch of the emergency services and it's their job. The same as an ambulance is obliged to attend the scene of a serious car crash when called.

We can't deal in hypotheticals. The fact is that these people ventured out on the water against explicit warnings and advice. Whether they called the emergency services oe not is erroneous. They were called by others who saw people out on the water in extremely dangerous conditions and became concerned.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 09:25AM

Coastguard Patroller #1: "Hey, I think that guy over there is in trouble"
Coastguard Captain: "Is it Francis Tumult-Hornsby?"
Coastguard Patroller #1: "I'm not sure, who is that?"
Coastguard Captain: "He's one of the guys who signed the Hurricane Stupid Behaviour Indemnity Waiver. Is he wearing the officially distributed big luminescent purple hat that says "Idiot" on it?"
Coastguard Patroller #1: "I think he might have been, I think that hat fell off when he got dashed against the rocks"
Coastguard Captain: "In that case, we'll just carry on and leave him to it, hope he's enjoying himself"

sullivlo · 17-10-2017 09:26AM

Erik Shin wrote: »

Oh the Humanity!
I have no dog in this fight, just trying to show some that 98% of people out there knew what they were doing yesterday, that's all

So the two lads wind surfing up off clogherhead yesterday apparently knew what they were doing. Grand. Nobody on the shore knew that, so they called for assistance. 116 and the coastguard attended to assist.

They didn’t need assistance. If reports are to be believed they didn’t want assistance and are considering making a complaint about the rescue operation.

What would happen if, at the same time, an elderly person who doesn’t have Twitter or use the internet, who doesn’t know the severity of the wind warning, is out for their morning walk with their dog. They’re blown off the pier and into the sea. People report it, and ask for assistance, but the chopper and boat are tied up with the surfers who chose to be there.

Can you not see how incredibly selfish it is for people to ignore warnings, even if they know what they’re doing?

I’m not victim blaming, but the three people who lost their lives yesterday were outside when told not to be. Yes they may have needed to be outside for various reasons, but that could just as easily been the two surfers driving home from the beach and their car being hit by a tree.

I went out yesterday morning because the storm hadn’t reached Dublin and I was checking on elderly neighbours to see if they needed anything. I also got them some food that didn’t need to be cooked, in case the power went. But I was home by 11 and I didn’t leave the house again. I wanted nothing more than to go for a walk, truth be told I wanted to go for a cycle because there’s a segment by my house that the wind direction was perfect for me to steal a KOM, but I sat inside instead because I didn’t want to take the risk of anything bad happening, and I wouldn’t like to potentially stretch the resources of the emergency services if they were responding to emergencies not brought on by my stupidity.

Rigor Mortis · 17-10-2017 09:27AM

errlloyd wrote: »

They didn't call for rescue though. They wouldn't call for rescue. If you asked them to sign a form accepting that they didn't want to be rescued they absolutely would. I see your issue, you don't see mine. Your issue is that the RNLI will feel obliged to rescue them so they shouldn't go surfing. My issue is they want to go surfing so the RNLI shouldn't feel obliged to rescue them.

That works up until the point that the RNLI actually say, yeah they were surfers, they knew what they were doing, so we didn't need to rescue them, and someone dies. RNLI and others don't have that luxury. People cant sign those forms and no civilised society could respect the decision of anyone that did

Bridge93 · 17-10-2017 09:27AM

The point is they are obliged. Whether the surfers etc want to be rescued or not is irrelevant. The RNLI have no choice, they don't get to pick and choose especially when calls are coming from other concerned members of the public

errlloyd · 17-10-2017 09:43AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's not how any of this works!

It should be! Why do we have to be living in a nanny state devoid of personal responsibility. How come the Himalayan mountain rescue team are able to draw a line at 7000m and say after that if you're a sportsperson on your own, but the RNLI can't draw a line at Beaufort Force 10 and say "after this point if you're a sport-person you're on your own". Again I'll say it. If those guys were never going to call the emergency services, why does anyone else care? The Dundalk Democrat reported that the two windsurfers rescued off Blackrock were "not stranded, and a local passerby called the emergency services because they thought they were being irresponsible" - so who put who in danger?

There are people in this state that think Rugby playing injuries are selfish for taking valuable A&E resources from genuine injuries. My dad says the only time one of his mates got any sympathy in hospital for motorcycle injuries was when he hurt himself avoiding a skateboarder.

Buer · 17-10-2017 09:58AM

errlloyd wrote: »

It should be! Why do we have to be living in a nanny state devoid of personal responsibility. How come the Himalayan mountain rescue team are able to draw a line at 7000m and say after that if you're a sportsperson on your own, but the RNLI can't draw a line at Beaufort Force 10 and say "after this point if you're a sport-person you're on your own". Again I'll say it. If those guys were never going to call the emergency services, why does anyone else care? The Dundalk Democrat reported that the two windsurfers rescued off Blackrock were "not stranded, and a local passerby called the emergency services because they thought they were being irresponsible" - so who put who in danger?

There are people in this state that think Rugby playing injuries are selfish for taking valuable A&E resources from genuine injuries. My dad says the only time one of his mates got any sympathy in hospital for motorcycle injuries was when he hurt himself avoiding a skateboarder.

You're talking in complete fantasy stuff. Why should anyone else care?! Sure if I see a motorist knock down a pedestrian on my way home this evening, should I keep on driving and say that it's not my problem? It's about human decency and actually caring about the society you live in.

Rugby is completely irrelevant. It's a field sport played in a controlled environment.

RNLI and the Himalayan Mountain Rescue = Volunteer services.
Irish Coast Guard = Emergency Services.

Off Topic Thread 3.0

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