Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 6:41pm #1

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ryanair-to-cancel-up-to-50-flights-a-day-for-six-weeks-1.3222671?mode=amp

Ryanair says it intends to cancel 40 to 50 flights a day over the next six weeks because its staff need to catch up on holiday entitlement

Really concerning for Ryanair, are they losing crew or just not having the capacity to hire them quickly enough?

Perhaps Ryanair should better their working conditions and salaries?

punisher5112 · 15-09-2017 6:43pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ryanair-to-cancel-up-to-50-flights-a-day-for-six-weeks-1.3222671?mode=amp

Really concerning for Ryanair, are they losing crew or just not having the capacity to hire them quickly enough?

Perhaps Ryanair should better their working conditions and salaries?

Does it have anything to do with the latest where they believed everyone even out of state workers would fall under Irish jurisdiction?

I would also guess they didn't give much holidays during the summer.

Atlantic Dawn · 15-09-2017 6:44pm

Would it not cost them a fortune with flight compensation for the passengers booked on those flights.

L1011 · 15-09-2017 7:03pm

40-50 flights a day is what percentage systemwide? I'm presuming its got a 0. in front of the %?

I suspect hiring and retaining crew with their known conditions is becoming more difficult with major growth across the entire industry worldwide, so that could be a factor.

Punctuality is being mentioned as an issue also - that will consume crew hours. Blame can be placed at both the seating rules delaying pushback but also at dealing with busier hub airports - the delays inherent there were often cited as a reason for not using them in the first place.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 7:19pm

Ryanair proclaim they operate 1800 daily flights, cancelling 40 of their flights would represent 2.2% of flights, so the figures seem right, or even a little low (50 flights =2.7%, rounded to 3%) to me.

IngazZagni · 15-09-2017 7:22pm

Ryanair are being liberal with the truth as usual. It's simply a big cock up by management and they are passing the blame to others. They are losing staff left, right and centre to many other airlines. They knew well in advance what the schedule was for September and October and staff leave would have been calculated with this in mind. Yet they leave it until after they are forced to cancel flights to come with this BS? Not good enough and management need to take the blame for this.

A319er · 15-09-2017 7:25pm

Well it's a lot more than 40 to 50 for a start

FR have no problem recruiting crew , it's a great first step for many , the problem is that these crew leave for better or perceived better jobs and FR
Doesn't have enough Captains or training Pilots to manage the newbies

The model is under a bit of pressure , peak summer was managed, just, by maxing current crew hours, so now these crew need breaks mandatory breaks and the crew shortage has caught up with the rostering team, painful.

Retaining flight deck crew is the issue, too many perceived greener pastures especially Norwegian and their new Dublin Base , mind you personally FR seems a safer bet at the moment IMHO

highlydebased · 15-09-2017 7:48pm

Wasn't this why they borrowed eirjet all those years ago?

1123heavy · 15-09-2017 8:44pm

Finally someone has made a thread about it, I couldn't judge what the reaction would be so hesitated.

I think it's insulting to the intelligence of their customers to be blaming ATC for any of this, the French strike was 2 days ago, and even then it was minimal with most airlines running a full schedule. How exactly does a STN based aircraft flying to GLA, or flights from Ireland to the UK get affected by a minor ATC strike in France? Most passengers haven't a clue for the most part so they're getting away with it.

It's good news for the pilots anyway.

I wonder how those words must taste now :pac::pac::pac:

L1011 · 15-09-2017 8:56pm

1123heavy wrote: »

Finally someone has made a thread about it, I couldn't judge what the reaction would be so hesitated.

I'd prefer if people posted without knowing the reaction - posting to get a specific reaction can be considered like-farming or trolling!

torrevieja · 15-09-2017 8:59pm

I bet there share price took a nose dive this is a much more serious problem 40-50 flights a day

Do this shower have the decency to inform there CUSTOMERS what flights etc ? :rolleyes:

Keyzer · 15-09-2017 9:03pm

Look out for a lot of mechanical failures on Ryanair flights in the near future.

A319er · 15-09-2017 9:06pm

I do hesitate to post re FR
Hate creating Work fir their "media management night shift spin team "
I mean they are busy enough doing the roster and fueling the aircraft and filing etc etc xxx

737max · 15-09-2017 9:06pm

It is in their financial interests to make these decisions early rather than later as compensation will be due per passenger and I'm guessing they'll be absolutely horrible to get compensation out of.
They've got about 7 months to sort this out.
They sort it out by increasing wages for all pilots and co-pilots and it will be minor blip for them as long as they handle it properly.

I'm flying with them but hoping not to be canceled as it would be difficult for them to offer me an alternate flight.

A319er · 15-09-2017 9:17pm

Well MOL feels one pilot is enough with a FA to handle the right hand seat so maybe he has a master plan ? .

john boye · 15-09-2017 9:22pm

Do the routes concerned have multiple daily departures so that pax can be accommodated on later flights?

L1011 · 15-09-2017 9:22pm

A319er wrote: »

Well MOL feels one pilot is enough with a FA to handle the right hand seat so maybe he has a master plan ? .

No aviation authority in the world is going to accept that.

Even getting the US to allow the FO to have <1500 hours is unlikely currently.

Loueln · 15-09-2017 9:22pm

Am really dissapointed. Flight cancelled with less than 48 hours notice and no explanation. Family upset. Ryanair livechat appear to be arranging alternative flight with one connection, then when asked to complete the deal then offer only flight into same country, hire car and they may no offer re-imbursement. He then transfers to other agent who asked for detailed account of previous chat and then cut us off while typing after less than 30 seconds
Now hotel are fully paid and too late to cancel, tickets to Museums bought and bus tickets bought. And they knew this was coming

They won't even give a reason for cancellation. Probably claim it was beyond their control

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 9:28pm

You're entitled to EU261 compensation, minimum of €250 per person.

I hope this compo is milked to be honest, as it's quite disgraceful. They should cancel the flights now for the next 6 weeks, at least give people a bit of notice so they can sort themselves now rather than the day before.

737max · 15-09-2017 9:29pm

if any Ryanair Customer Support agents were teetering on the edge of handing in their notice this will probably be their tipping point.
So, So many unhappy customers for the next 6 weeks.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 9:31pm

737max wrote: »

if any Ryanair Customer Support agents were teetering on the edge of handing in their notice this will probably be their tipping point.
So, So many unhappy customers for the next 6 weeks.

That's a bit....extreme.

TBH it's like saying that if staff wanted to quit in a shop, then Christmas time would be their tipping point and make them quit.

GoldFour4 · 15-09-2017 9:35pm

This is going to seriously damage Ryanair results for the year. bookings will fall dramatically I'd imagine, as long as they keep up the pattern of announcing cancellations only a couple of days ahead of time.

For example I don't have to fly again until October. It's a one day thing with 6:30 flight out from Dublin and back from Edinburgh that night. Ryanair flight is much cheaper but I'll pay the extra money for Aer lingus as I have to be there that morning and nothing would be guaranteed (I know a flight is never 100% guaranteed) with Ryanair until the day before.

737max · 15-09-2017 9:36pm

funny you mention that... ever work on a support line for expensive products that are given as gifts on the week between xmas and new years. Never again!

Loueln · 15-09-2017 9:36pm

Am polite concise, no drama on the help line. I would expect the same in return.
If they had just stated the reason for cancellation(as entitled) I would apply for refund of both flights, and pursue the compenstation online

Sullysark · 15-09-2017 9:40pm

How bad are the working conditions? Particularly from a pilots point of view?
Does anyone on here work for them?

decor58 · 15-09-2017 9:42pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

Would it not cost them a fortune with flight compensation for the passengers booked on those flights.

We are in France, (Nantes) due to fly at 7.30 Sunday morning, received a text at 6pm this evening to say flight cancelled. Next flight at 4.25pm Tuesday, two choices offered, reschedule or cancel, have to be in work Monday. Thankfully Aer Lingus organised there staff leave, so booked with them at twice the price. We ( two adults) are fortunate, the credit card is still in the black, what if we had small kids or no credit left.

Tenger · 15-09-2017 9:47pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Really concerning for Ryanair, are they losing crew or just not having the capacity to hire them quickly enough?

Perhaps Ryanair should better their working conditions and salaries?

The issue is too many flight hours in too short a timeframe.

EASA rules have strict limits on block limits in 365/90/28/7 day periods, i.e. 900 hours in rolling 365 days.
It's just after peak season, it seems that FR maxed hours over the last 90 days on many crew. So it's not that they are cancelling due to "the need for staff to take holiday time", it's due to those staff being grounded for a week or two until their rolling hours drop below legal limits.
Enforced time off is not a 'holiday'

900 hours per year is the limit and previously referred to by MoL as "16 hours a week". A sound bite also repeated by Dan White of the Irish Indo, apparently he is their 'aviation expert'!!

737max · 15-09-2017 9:51pm

decor58 wrote: »

We are in France, (Nantes) due to fly at 7.30 Sunday morning, received a text at 6pm this evening to say flight cancelled. Next flight at 4.25pm Tuesday, two choices offered, reschedule or cancel, have to be in work Monday. Thankfully Aer Lingus organised there staff leave, so booked with them at twice the price. We ( two adults) are fortunate, the credit card is still in the black, what if we had small kids or no credit left.

were you offered a hotel room for the two nights?

Loueln · 15-09-2017 9:51pm

Finally got a 3rd agent. Opted for full refund. Online form won't let me submit same because system says flight has not been cancelled

appledrop · 15-09-2017 9:53pm

Their working conditions are shocking especially for pilots. Think it was channel 4 that did a documentary on it a few years ago. Don't know why anyone is surprised. They have always treated their customers with distain. Only ever flown with them once never again.

737max · 15-09-2017 9:54pm

They need an internal AGB program.

L1011 · 15-09-2017 9:55pm

737max wrote: »

They need an internal AGB program.

Rare as this happens here - AGB? Google doesn't give me anything that makes sense (or is family friendly)

737max · 15-09-2017 9:57pm

Always Getting Better for staff.

decor58 · 15-09-2017 10:01pm

737max wrote:

were you offered a hotel room for the two nights?

Didn't ask, just searched for alternative flights and took cancellation option, all done online, glad of the changes in roaming charges.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 10:04pm

decor58 wrote: »

Didn't ask, just searched for alternative flights and took cancellation option, all done online, glad of the changes in roaming charges.

Again, I'd advise you to claim your compensation. It could be hard to get, but persistence is key.

LeakingLava · 15-09-2017 10:10pm

Sullysark wrote: »

How bad are the working conditions? Particularly from a pilots point of view?
Does anyone on here work for them?

I know someone that works for them as a cabin crew through an agency. One of the absolutely hated things by all crew apparently is their roster. It is a set schedule, a month in advance, however, you have days that are similar to being on-call. Problem is, they are 'no fly, no pay'. So you have to stay available, yet not get paid if you don't get called. It's really not nice. Believe it or not, this gets to their skin and a few of my friend's colleagues had already moved to other airlines with this being one of their main reasons.

L1011 · 15-09-2017 10:17pm

LeakingLava wrote: »

Problem is, they are 'no fly, no pay'. So you have to stay available, yet not get paid if you don't get called. It's really not nice. Believe it or not, this gets to their skin and a few of my friend's colleagues had already moved to other airlines with this being one of their main reasons.

If you work in IT and are on-call, you're going to be paid regardless of call - probably a peppercorn enough amount, but you get something. I've even left a job where there was an expectation of doing on-call without pay for being so.

Dardania · 15-09-2017 10:19pm

If the Alitalia bid is accepted, I can imagine their staff will be put to full use immediately...

L1011 · 15-09-2017 10:20pm

Dardania wrote: »

If the Alitalia bid is accepted, I can imagine their staff will be put to full use immediately...

They aren't trained on 737s craft so couldn't be; at best they could use their crews + craft but that'd involve huge costs in cancelling flights on Alitalia.

I'm pretty confident the bid won't be accepted; and is primarily a PR move anyway.

737max · 15-09-2017 10:24pm

so which flights get cancelled? The ones which burn the most pilot hours for example flights from Ireland to Germany or Poland but are within 1500km to minimize compensation payout?
I doubt they've got a computer model for selecting which flights to cut.
The pilots on here can tell us when the clock is actually ticking for flight time? Is it wheels up to wheels down or push back to doors open or what?

decor58 · 15-09-2017 10:25pm

JCX BXC wrote:

Again, I'd advise you to claim your compensation. It could be hard to get, but persistence is key.

Thanks for the advice, will look into it but just glad to have flights at the moment. I just hope all those affected are in the same boat.

Sullysark · 15-09-2017 10:25pm

appledrop wrote: »

Their working conditions are shocking especially for pilots. Think it was channel 4 that did a documentary on it a few years ago. Don't know why anyone is surprised. They have always treated their customers with distain. Only ever flown with them once never again.

I've seen the documentary and heard the horror stories. But never really believed it was that bad, particularly from a pilots perspective they have a habit of moaning. I was always under the illusion their roster is their main selling point? 5 on 4 off fixed. I recently joined EZY. I seen in a report this week they lost a few hundred pilots to Norwegian, with Monarch now sniffing about due to their influx of 737's. I've flown with them a few times on trips, fair enough their customer service is quite terrible but what do you expect for £9.99?.

Paully D · 15-09-2017 10:37pm

Damn.

Due to fly to Gdansk with Ryanair in 5 weeks' time.

I'm guessing that route will probably be one given the chop during this period?

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 10:39pm

Not necessarily, remember only 2% of flights are getting the chop.

737max · 15-09-2017 10:40pm

Dublin Gdansk is 1622km great circle so it is expensive to cancel that flight in terms of compensation.

L1011 · 15-09-2017 10:42pm

737max wrote: »

so which flights get cancelled? The ones which burn the most pilot hours for example flights from Ireland to Germany or Poland but are within 1500km to minimize compensation payout?
I doubt they've got a computer model for selecting which flights to cut.
The pilots on here can tell us when the clock is actually ticking for flight time? Is it wheels up to wheels down or push back to doors open or what?

The ones where it'll be cheapest overall to cancel, in terms of compensation versus yield; and dealing with issues relating to where aircraft end up and what crews are where. I assume.

Just cutting longest flights would leave craft and crews out of position

jimbis · 15-09-2017 10:43pm

Going on my first holiday in 17 years on Monday.... Praying my flight isn't cancelled.

737max · 15-09-2017 10:46pm

L1011 wrote: »

The ones where it'll be cheapest overall to cancel, in terms of compensation versus yield; and dealing with issues relating to where aircraft end up and what crews are where. I assume.

Just cutting longest flights would leave craft and crews out of position

I can't see them canceling too many flights from Ireland to UK. The flight times are just too short compared to the cost of compensation.

L1011 · 15-09-2017 10:48pm

737max wrote: »

I can't see them canceling too many flights from Ireland to UK. The flight times are just too short compared to the cost of compensation.

Some of the UK<->Ireland flights are frequent enough that reaccomodation could be done within the window to avoid any compensation at all; so I'd actually expect cancellations there on quiet days. DUB-STN for instance.

Total cost - including yield, not just compensation - and system impact are how they'll select what to cancel. Remember how complicated organising 400+ frames over a Europe wide system is and how cancelling a flight impacts where that frame is to do its next one. Deadheading still burns crew hours as well as burning cash.

JCX BXC · 15-09-2017 10:51pm

Dublin to Newcastle and Dublin to Milan are two routes I've noticed being cancelled yesterday.

Paully D · 15-09-2017 10:53pm

Friday and Saturday cancellations, per The Irish Times.

Many surprises there or are many of the routes what you would expect to go in this situation?

FR6341 Barcelona to El Prat Rome Fuimincino

FR4338 Bologna to Brindisi

FR9092 Trapani (Sicily) to Milan (Bergamo)

FR3005 Rome Ciampino to London Stansted

FR7422 Stockholm to Alicante

FR4601 Bologna to Malaga T2

FR4100 Frankfurt Main to Malaga T2

FR4111 Milan (Bergamo) to Capodichino

FR4709 Alghero to Milan (Bergamo)

FR1382 Charleroi to Zaragosa

FR9428 Dublin T1 to Milan (Bergamo)

FR876 London Stansted to Beziers

FR7542 Manchester to Barcelona El Prat

FR4007 Manchester to Alicante

FR2225 London Stansted to Tallinn

FR5041 Leeds Bradford to Bratislava

FR9432 Dublin T1 to Rome Ciampino

FR9135 Porto to Paris Beauvais

FR9134 Paris Beauvais to Porto

FR3484 Bologna Palma to Mallorca

FR5042 Bratislava to Leeds Bradford

FR9927 Alghero to Pisa

FR5505 Milan (Bergamo) to Nuremberg

FR8631 Trapani (Sicily) to Charleroi

FR4110 Malaga T2 to Frankfurt Main

FR2224 Tallinn to London Stansted

FR4006 Alicante to Manchester

FR7423 Alicante to Stockholm

FR9111 Barcelona El Prat to Turin

FR9431 Rome Ciampino to Dublin T1

FR8884 Edinburgh to London Stansted

FR3047 Krakow to Porto

FR9928 Pisa to Alghero

FR1783 Bordeaux to London Stansted

FR5506 Nuremberg to Milan (Bergamo)

FR8817 Nimes to London Stansted

FR3485 Palma Mallorca to Bologna

FR9112 Turin to Barcelona El Prat

FR8883 London Stansted to Edinburgh

FR8632 Charleroi to Trapani (Sicily)

FR2993 Dublin T1 to Tours

FR72 London Stansted to Carcassonne

FR7382 London Stansted to Copenhagen

FR8082 Fez to Charleroi

FR1062 Madrid to Modlin Warsaw

FR2994 Tours to Dublin T1

FR7233 Vilniaus to Paris Beauvais

FR6212 Dusseldorf Weeze to Alicante

FR2528 Madrid to Berlin

FR2945 Porto to Berlin

FR73 Carcassonne to London Stansted

FR7381 Copenhagen to London Stansted

FR9848 Pisa to Chania (Crete)

FR58 London Stansted to Stockholm

FR8081 Charleroi to Fez

FR7234 Paris Beauvais to Vilniaus

FR6213 Alicante to Dusseldorf Weeze

FR1063 Modlin Warsaw to Madrid

FR2529 Berlin to Madrid

FR9849 Chania (Crete) to Pisa

FR2946 Berlin to Porto

FR174 Dublin T1 to Newcastle

FR59 Stockholm to London Stansted

FR175 Newcastle to Dublin T1

Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

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