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Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    737max wrote: »
    They need an internal AGB program.

    Rare as this happens here - AGB? Google doesn't give me anything that makes sense (or is family friendly)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    Always Getting Better for staff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 845 ✭✭✭decor58


    737max wrote:
    were you offered a hotel room for the two nights?


    Didn't ask, just searched for alternative flights and took cancellation option, all done online, glad of the changes in roaming charges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    decor58 wrote: »
    Didn't ask, just searched for alternative flights and took cancellation option, all done online, glad of the changes in roaming charges.

    Again, I'd advise you to claim your compensation. It could be hard to get, but persistence is key.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭LeakingLava


    Sullysark wrote: »
    How bad are the working conditions? Particularly from a pilots point of view? 
    Does anyone on here work for them?

    I know someone that works for them as a cabin crew through an agency. One of the absolutely hated things by all crew apparently is their roster. It is a set schedule, a month in advance, however, you have days that are similar to being on-call. Problem is, they are 'no fly, no pay'. So you have to stay available, yet not get paid if you don't get called. It's really not nice. Believe it or not, this gets to their skin and a few of my friend's colleagues had already moved to other airlines with this being one of their main reasons.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Problem is, they are 'no fly, no pay'. So you have to stay available, yet not get paid if you don't get called. It's really not nice. Believe it or not, this gets to their skin and a few of my friend's colleagues had already moved to other airlines with this being one of their main reasons.

    If you work in IT and are on-call, you're going to be paid regardless of call - probably a peppercorn enough amount, but you get something. I've even left a job where there was an expectation of doing on-call without pay for being so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    If the Alitalia bid is accepted, I can imagine their staff will be put to full use immediately...


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Dardania wrote: »
    If the Alitalia bid is accepted, I can imagine their staff will be put to full use immediately...

    They aren't trained on 737s craft so couldn't be; at best they could use their crews + craft but that'd involve huge costs in cancelling flights on Alitalia.

    I'm pretty confident the bid won't be accepted; and is primarily a PR move anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    so which flights get cancelled? The ones which burn the most pilot hours for example flights from Ireland to Germany or Poland but are within 1500km to minimize compensation payout?
    I doubt they've got a computer model for selecting which flights to cut.
    The pilots on here can tell us when the clock is actually ticking for flight time? Is it wheels up to wheels down or push back to doors open or what?


  • Registered Users Posts: 845 ✭✭✭decor58


    JCX BXC wrote:
    Again, I'd advise you to claim your compensation. It could be hard to get, but persistence is key.


    Thanks for the advice, will look into it but just glad to have flights at the moment. I just hope all those affected are in the same boat.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Sullysark


    appledrop wrote: »
    Their working conditions are shocking especially for pilots. Think it was channel 4 that did a documentary on it a few years ago. Don't know why anyone is surprised. They have always treated their customers with distain. Only ever flown with them once never again.
    I've seen the documentary and heard the horror stories. But never really believed it was that bad, particularly from a pilots perspective they have a habit of moaning. I was always under the illusion their roster is their main selling point? 5 on 4 off fixed. I recently joined EZY. I seen in a report this week they lost a few hundred pilots to Norwegian, with Monarch now sniffing about due to their influx of 737's. I've flown with them a few times on trips, fair enough their customer service is quite terrible but what do you expect for £9.99?.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Damn.

    Due to fly to Gdansk with Ryanair in 5 weeks' time.

    I'm guessing that route will probably be one given the chop during this period? :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Not necessarily, remember only 2% of flights are getting the chop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    Dublin Gdansk is 1622km great circle so it is expensive to cancel that flight in terms of compensation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    737max wrote: »
    so which flights get cancelled? The ones which burn the most pilot hours for example flights from Ireland to Germany or Poland but are within 1500km to minimize compensation payout?
    I doubt they've got a computer model for selecting which flights to cut.
    The pilots on here can tell us when the clock is actually ticking for flight time? Is it wheels up to wheels down or push back to doors open or what?

    The ones where it'll be cheapest overall to cancel, in terms of compensation versus yield; and dealing with issues relating to where aircraft end up and what crews are where. I assume.

    Just cutting longest flights would leave craft and crews out of position


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭jimbis


    Going on my first holiday in 17 years on Monday.... Praying my flight isn't cancelled. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    L1011 wrote: »
    The ones where it'll be cheapest overall to cancel, in terms of compensation versus yield; and dealing with issues relating to where aircraft end up and what crews are where. I assume.

    Just cutting longest flights would leave craft and crews out of position

    I can't see them canceling too many flights from Ireland to UK. The flight times are just too short compared to the cost of compensation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    737max wrote: »
    I can't see them canceling too many flights from Ireland to UK. The flight times are just too short compared to the cost of compensation.

    Some of the UK<->Ireland flights are frequent enough that reaccomodation could be done within the window to avoid any compensation at all; so I'd actually expect cancellations there on quiet days. DUB-STN for instance.

    Total cost - including yield, not just compensation - and system impact are how they'll select what to cancel. Remember how complicated organising 400+ frames over a Europe wide system is and how cancelling a flight impacts where that frame is to do its next one. Deadheading still burns crew hours as well as burning cash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,170 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Dublin to Newcastle and Dublin to Milan are two routes I've noticed being cancelled yesterday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Friday and Saturday cancellations, per The Irish Times.

    Many surprises there or are many of the routes what you would expect to go in this situation?

    FR6341 Barcelona to El Prat Rome Fuimincino

    FR4338 Bologna to Brindisi

    FR9092 Trapani (Sicily) to Milan (Bergamo)

    FR3005 Rome Ciampino to London Stansted

    FR7422 Stockholm to Alicante

    FR4601 Bologna to Malaga T2

    FR4100 Frankfurt Main to Malaga T2

    FR4111 Milan (Bergamo) to Capodichino

    FR4709 Alghero to Milan (Bergamo)

    FR1382 Charleroi to Zaragosa

    FR9428 Dublin T1 to Milan (Bergamo)

    FR876 London Stansted to Beziers

    FR7542 Manchester to Barcelona El Prat

    FR4007 Manchester to Alicante

    FR2225 London Stansted to Tallinn

    FR5041 Leeds Bradford to Bratislava

    FR9432 Dublin T1 to Rome Ciampino

    FR9135 Porto to Paris Beauvais

    FR9134 Paris Beauvais to Porto

    FR3484 Bologna Palma to Mallorca

    FR5042 Bratislava to Leeds Bradford

    FR9927 Alghero to Pisa

    FR5505 Milan (Bergamo) to Nuremberg

    FR8631 Trapani (Sicily) to Charleroi

    FR4110 Malaga T2 to Frankfurt Main

    FR2224 Tallinn to London Stansted

    FR4006 Alicante to Manchester

    FR7423 Alicante to Stockholm

    FR9111 Barcelona El Prat to Turin

    FR9431 Rome Ciampino to Dublin T1

    FR8884 Edinburgh to London Stansted

    FR3047 Krakow to Porto

    FR9928 Pisa to Alghero

    FR1783 Bordeaux to London Stansted

    FR5506 Nuremberg to Milan (Bergamo)

    FR8817 Nimes to London Stansted

    FR3485 Palma Mallorca to Bologna

    FR9112 Turin to Barcelona El Prat

    FR8883 London Stansted to Edinburgh

    FR8632 Charleroi to Trapani (Sicily)

    FR2993 Dublin T1 to Tours

    FR72 London Stansted to Carcassonne

    FR7382 London Stansted to Copenhagen

    FR8082 Fez to Charleroi

    FR1062 Madrid to Modlin Warsaw

    FR2994 Tours to Dublin T1

    FR7233 Vilniaus to Paris Beauvais

    FR6212 Dusseldorf Weeze to Alicante

    FR2528 Madrid to Berlin

    FR2945 Porto to Berlin

    FR73 Carcassonne to London Stansted

    FR7381 Copenhagen to London Stansted

    FR9848 Pisa to Chania (Crete)

    FR58 London Stansted to Stockholm

    FR8081 Charleroi to Fez

    FR7234 Paris Beauvais to Vilniaus

    FR6213 Alicante to Dusseldorf Weeze

    FR1063 Modlin Warsaw to Madrid

    FR2529 Berlin to Madrid

    FR9849 Chania (Crete) to Pisa

    FR2946 Berlin to Porto

    FR174 Dublin T1 to Newcastle

    FR59 Stockholm to London Stansted

    FR175 Newcastle to Dublin T1


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    Dublin to Newcastle and Dublin to Milan are two routes I've noticed being cancelled yesterday.

    I've been on the Friday night Newcastle -> Dublin flight (which also got cancelled) more times than I can remember and it has always been full (not sure if that comes into their thinking here).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    I'm guessing a Donkey with bad breath but rated for a 737 would stand a good chance of being hired by Ryanair considering their current predicament.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Paully D wrote: »
    I've been on the Friday night Newcastle -> Dublin flight (which also got cancelled) more times than I can remember and it has always been full (not sure if that comes into their thinking here).

    Load != yield, although it can be a good indication. You can have a half empty flight making loads of cash if the ticket price was high enough and a full bus losing money hand over fist as most of the boom time low cost longhaulers were.

    On an established route for Ryanair you could usually assume that if its full its making good money; but on routes where they are in price competition with Aer Lingus its anyones guess.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    About time the truth came out on this one, it's been building for a few weeks, at least since the start of August. In fact, July saw a drop in on time performance compared to the previous year so this may have actually started in peak summer. 

    Ryanair has until today blamed their performance on weather, French strikes and air traffic restrictions but Michael O'Leary may have put his foot in his big mouth with his recent comments about Norwegian. I'm sure many will remember that last week Mr O'Leary stated Norwegian would be "gone" in 4-5 months which triggered Norwegian's claims that he's just annoyed so many of his crews have jumped ship and joined them leaving his airline short of staff. Earlier this week a number of Belgian flights were cancelled which was once again blamed on weather, strikes and traffic restrictions but French media rebutted the claims and suggested it was more to do with crew shortages. Ryanair denied it.

    Now we have the real story, of course there's enough spin in the Ryanair press release to make you dizzy but read between the lines and it's a blatant admission that they've screwed up the scheduling. It's very unlike them to make any mistakes with regards to the operation of the airline, it usually runs like clockwork but everything has a limit and it seems Ryanair went past theirs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Sullysark


    Just how short are they? A friend told me roughly 100-200 in DUB alone, would that be accurate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    Based on the Irish Times figures it seems to me that their biggest bases are least affected in that they have more coverage there. Will it stay that way? Hard to know. Just as well they are still a point to point airline.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    Too late now but maybe Ryanair will lobby for Pilots to be added to the Highly Skilled Eligible Occupations List for work permits but there would need to be regulatory approval for these non-EU pilots I'd guess and the fact that pilots are all contractors makes this difficult too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    If someone can figure out their strategy for selecting flights to cancel they could be in line for some very good compensation for flights they had no intention of taking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭john boye


    I might be getting carried away here but could this get situation get to a point where FR have to defer new deliveries? Didn't they already do that last year or earlier this year because of pilot shortages?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,754 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    737max wrote: »
    Too late now but maybe Ryanair will lobby for Pilots to be added to the Highly Skilled Eligible Occupations List for work permits but there would need to be regulatory approval for these non-EU pilots I'd guess and the fact that pilots are all contractors makes this difficult too.

    They'd need to sort out licences first before there being any point in looking at work permit rules; additionally an Irish work permit is bog all use for overnighting in a country that may have no structures for allowing that for citizens of the country the non-EU pilot is a citizen of.

    Please edit posts rather than posting three in a row.


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