Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

Paully D

JCX BXC wrote: »

Dublin to Newcastle and Dublin to Milan are two routes I've noticed being cancelled yesterday.

I've been on the Friday night Newcastle -> Dublin flight (which also got cancelled) more times than I can remember and it has always been full (not sure if that comes into their thinking here).

737max

I'm guessing a Donkey with bad breath but rated for a 737 would stand a good chance of being hired by Ryanair considering their current predicament.

L1011

Paully D wrote: »

I've been on the Friday night Newcastle -> Dublin flight (which also got cancelled) more times than I can remember and it has always been full (not sure if that comes into their thinking here).

Load != yield, although it can be a good indication. You can have a half empty flight making loads of cash if the ticket price was high enough and a full bus losing money hand over fist as most of the boom time low cost longhaulers were.

On an established route for Ryanair you could usually assume that if its full its making good money; but on routes where they are in price competition with Aer Lingus its anyones guess.

kevinandrew

About time the truth came out on this one, it's been building for a few weeks, at least since the start of August. In fact, July saw a drop in on time performance compared to the previous year so this may have actually started in peak summer. 

Ryanair has until today blamed their performance on weather, French strikes and air traffic restrictions but Michael O'Leary may have put his foot in his big mouth with his recent comments about Norwegian. I'm sure many will remember that last week Mr O'Leary stated Norwegian would be "gone" in 4-5 months which triggered Norwegian's claims that he's just annoyed so many of his crews have jumped ship and joined them leaving his airline short of staff. Earlier this week a number of Belgian flights were cancelled which was once again blamed on weather, strikes and traffic restrictions but French media rebutted the claims and suggested it was more to do with crew shortages. Ryanair denied it.

Now we have the real story, of course there's enough spin in the Ryanair press release to make you dizzy but read between the lines and it's a blatant admission that they've screwed up the scheduling. It's very unlike them to make any mistakes with regards to the operation of the airline, it usually runs like clockwork but everything has a limit and it seems Ryanair went past theirs.

Sullysark

Just how short are they? A friend told me roughly 100-200 in DUB alone, would that be accurate.

737max

Based on the Irish Times figures it seems to me that their biggest bases are least affected in that they have more coverage there. Will it stay that way? Hard to know. Just as well they are still a point to point airline.

737max

Too late now but maybe Ryanair will lobby for Pilots to be added to the Highly Skilled Eligible Occupations List for work permits but there would need to be regulatory approval for these non-EU pilots I'd guess and the fact that pilots are all contractors makes this difficult too.

737max

If someone can figure out their strategy for selecting flights to cancel they could be in line for some very good compensation for flights they had no intention of taking.

john boye

I might be getting carried away here but could this get situation get to a point where FR have to defer new deliveries? Didn't they already do that last year or earlier this year because of pilot shortages?

L1011

737max wrote: »

Too late now but maybe Ryanair will lobby for Pilots to be added to the Highly Skilled Eligible Occupations List for work permits but there would need to be regulatory approval for these non-EU pilots I'd guess and the fact that pilots are all contractors makes this difficult too.

They'd need to sort out licences first before there being any point in looking at work permit rules; additionally an Irish work permit is bog all use for overnighting in a country that may have no structures for allowing that for citizens of the country the non-EU pilot is a citizen of.

Please edit posts rather than posting three in a row.

Bsal

Just looking at Ryanair's career site seems to be a big pilot recruitment drive for captains in Brazil going on.

The Rape of Lucretia

Is anybody at all going to buy a Ryanair ticket now for the next 6 weeks given that you have a 1 in 35 chance of it being cancelled with damn all notice to rearrange ?
Surely not. Its just not worth the risk and potential loss due to knockon costs to your trip. Unless your schedule is totally flexible, you book with another airline, or postpone your trip.

This is the worst move I have ever seen Ryanair make - and thats from someone who thinks Ryanair are usually pretty on the button despite the whinges you hear about them.

Spanish Eyes

Do you think they will text those of us who have a flight pending.

Hope so.

The Rape of Lucretia

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Do you think they will text those of us who have a flight pending.

Hope so.

They say on their site that they will email.

737max

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is anybody at all going to buy a Ryanair ticket now for the next 6 weeks given that you have a 1 in 35 chance of it being cancelled with damn all notice to rearrange ?
Surely not. Its just not worth the risk and potential loss due to knockon costs to your trip. Unless your schedule is totally flexible, you book with another airline, or postpone your trip.

This is the worst move I have ever seen Ryanair make - and thats from someone who thinks Ryanair are usually pretty on the button despite the whinges you hear about them.

just did for 12.99. from one non base to another non base. Have to help them out in their time of need.

The Rape of Lucretia

737max wrote: »

just did for 12.99. from one non base to another non base. Have to help them out in their time of need.

How much do you stand to lose though is the key (hotels, other costs, work arrangements, time off, or whatever). Maybe little in your case.
The 12.99 is usually the least of the cost of a trip for most people.

737max

I don't think you understand why I booked the flight. I'm laying an unconventional bet for sport.

uck51js9zml2yt

Mother in law flying home to Poland on Sunday. Hope the flight doesn't get cancelled:)

The Rape of Lucretia

737max wrote: »

I don't think you understand why I booked the flight. I'm laying an unconventional bet for sport.

I dont think I do.

devnull

That's very interesting:
https://ryanair.workable.com/

Note how that it's listing a whole batch of bases by name rather than the usual be assigned a base routine and a few of them specifically mention that they will be on full Ryanair direct employed contracts.

And there's an open day in Brazil.

uck51js9zml2yt

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont think I do.

Poster bought ticket hoping it cancelled so he can claim from RA for the cancellation. I thought his intention was clear from his post.

JCX BXC

Paully D wrote: »

I've been on the Friday night Newcastle -> Dublin flight (which also got cancelled) more times than I can remember and it has always been full (not sure if that comes into their thinking here).

Often been on that flight myself, however I don't think I've ever paid much over the ADP for that flight!

L1011

Bsal wrote: »

Just looking at Ryanair's career site seems to be a big pilot recruitment drive for captains in Brazil going on.

Bit of an economic crisis there, plenty of airlines, albeit very few 737 operators (although GOL is relatively big). Substantial population entitled to EU passports.

Plenty of qualified pilots although what terms they'll do a type rating under is pilot-specific. Self-paid will not attract many A320 drivers basically.

kippy

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I dont think I do.

He bought the flight, with no intention of taking it, in the hope that it is cancelled and he can claim more than the cost of the flight in compensation.

funkyouup

I have flights booked for mid october, how much notice do they have to give me?

Peter Flynt

This is where you end up when you mistreat your staff in a competitive market whilst asking for new recruits to pay €3000 for their own training.

737max

how can Customer service even be sure that the alternate flights they wish to place disappointed passengers on to get to their destination will even depart as planned.
if I wanted to fly to Ireland from Germany and the flight was cancelled they could offer me flight through Stansted or Charleoi but either of those legs could get canceled too.

My calculator tells me that there is up to €75m in E261 compensation waiting to be claimed.

Peter Flynt

It's also an advertising gift for Ryanair's competitors this.

You can certainly be sure that Ryanair would be milking this if the show were on the other foot re Aer Lingus, BA, Lufthansa etc. .

Jamie2k9

Vueling last year, Ryanair now and Easyjet have had problems this summer as well.

1123heavy

https://www.cloud.scorebuddy.co.uk/ryanair-services/cancellations.php?date=2017-09-15

Quite a few indeed.

Regarding the basing issues, DUB is one of their most populated bases, unless something has changed then the crew shortages are on the continent. Germany in particular have been short staffed on the captain side recently.

As for those asking what working for Ryanair is like as a pilot, I have only met those who actually like it. I got to know a Dublin based captain who wouldn't go anywhere else no matter what the cash. Now having said that, he would be near the top in terms of seniority etc so he had some say over his roster and his salary was well into the 6 figures too.

On the other hand though you have the 200hr cadets who simply use them as a stepping stone to go fly B777s in the middle east or try and get into their national carrier or a better paying one wherever they may be. I don't know any of my peers who went to RYR with the intention of staying much past 1500hrs, basically the point at which they become a bit more marketable.

RYR have only ever kept these guys on agency contracts and so there's no loyalty etc to the company, heck they don't even keep them fed. For comparison - easyJet provide free meals to all their crew.

Whilst this is of course terrible news for lots of passengers, I can say for sure that there are pilots out there secretly relieved that it has happened at last. Now let's hope things change. The arrogance of O'Leary towards his pilots goes to show what he thinks of them, maybe now he'll change.

Although something tells me the man will come out and blame EASA for having FTLs to begin with!

chinwag

Is there no legal requirement on Ryanair (or any airline) to honour booked flights even if it means leasing aircraft?

Can Ryanair just walk away from confirmed bookings because of an internal cock-up?

Do they not have to sign up to some legal commitments before they are granted a licence to operate an airline?

The alternatives they seem to be offering appear to be just dumping the problem back to the customer.

Somehow, I doubt if Aer Lingus would allow this to happen.

Jamie2k9

chinwag wrote: »

Is there no legal requirement on Ryanair (or any airline) to honour booked flights even if it means leasing aircraft?

Can Ryanair just walk away from confirmed bookings because of an internal cock-up?

Do they not have to sign up to some legal commitments to before they are granted a licence to operate an airline?

The alternatives they seem to be offering appear to be just dumping the problem back to the customer.

Somehow, I doubt if Aer Lingus would allow this to happen.

They would and have. In some cases canceling when your in the airport even though they would know in advance. 2015 was a dire summer for them however they have gotten on top of things during summer 2016 and 2017.

1123heavy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They would and have. In some cases canceling when your in the airport even though they would know in advance. 2015 was a dire summer for them however they have gotten on top of things during summer 2016 and 2017.

This summer was a disaster for them too really, at one stage it looked like they'd more last minute leased aircraft flying the atlantic than their own

737max

when an a320 broke down at christmas a few years ago for a flight I was on they replaced it with an a321 the next morning. They definitely would have had pissed off Customers who would have been on that a321 which would have been flying elsewhere.
Aer lingus will do what is financially expedient too. There are no "good guys" in the aviation industry.

Jamie2k9

1123heavy wrote: »

This summer was a disaster for them too really, at one stage it looked like they'd more last minute leased aircraft flying the atlantic than their own

Yes but not exactly within their control, the previous crewing problem was.

BZ

I was due to fly to Nice from DUB on Tuesday and back again Thursday night. Return flight Thursday has been cancelled. Got a text message to urgently check my email regarding a cancellation on my trip. So they are texting people notifications aswell as email.

737max

please find out about hotel for two days.
Will they have to be forced to live up to their obligations?

1123heavy

the chickens have come home to roost is probably the most suitable statement to fit this situation

4068ac1elhodqr

The tabloids state it's closer to '80' flights per day.

Sounds like someone forgot to print out the basic holiday excel spreadsheets.

Cocobongo

BZ wrote: »

I was due to fly to Nice from DUB on Tuesday and back again Thursday night. Return flight Thursday has been cancelled. Got a text message to urgently check my email regarding a cancellation on my trip. So they are texting people notifications aswell as email.

I was off to leeds on that tuesday and my gates were literally next to nice before they announced it’s cancelled. It definitely wasn’t a group to fill in the plane, but i’d say at least 30-40 people walked off..

It a shame that some didn’t get any notice as it was an early morning (or they didn’t see) i would of been quite pissed off too... on the other hand i did finally managed to get a seat to finish my sandwich.. hehe

jimmycrackcorm

BZ wrote: »

I was due to fly to Nice from DUB on Tuesday and back again Thursday night. Return flight Thursday has been cancelled. Got a text message to urgently check my email regarding a cancellation on my trip. So they are texting people notifications aswell as email.

If one flight gets cancelled, can you claim compensation if return was booked. I'm concerned as have holidays booked in Spain in the next few weeks and bizarrely it looks like people are going to be kept in suspense until the day before flights to see if their plans are still valid or not.

The ineptitude is incredible? Perhaps only 2% of flights will be cancelled but 100% of passengers don't know if they will be the ones disrupted for the next 6 weeks.

lisasimpson

Have holidays booked for mid oct. Would it be possible to cancel flights ans rebook with another airline

Noxegon

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

BZ wrote: »

The ineptitude is incredible? Perhaps only 2% of flights will be cancelled but 100% of passengers don't know if they will be the ones disrupted for the next 6 weeks.

This. I have several flights booked on Ryanair between now and the end of October. While cancellations are a pain I can make my own arrangements when given enough notice. 48 hours is not enough notice.

Gaoth Laidir

Loueln wrote: »

Am really dissapointed. Flight cancelled with less than 48 hours notice and no explanation. Family upset. Ryanair livechat appear to be arranging alternative flight with one connection, then when asked to complete the deal then offer only flight into same country, hire car and they may no offer re-imbursement. He then transfers to other agent who asked for detailed account of previous chat and then cut us off while typing after less than 30 seconds
Now hotel are fully paid and too late to cancel, tickets to Museums bought and bus tickets bought. And they knew this was coming
They won't even give a reason for cancellation. Probably claim it was beyond their control

Smile, you're famous!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/appalling-treatment-ryanair-passengers-vent-fury-as-airline-to-cancel-up-to-50-flights-a-day-for-next-six-weeks-36136828.html

DivingDuck

I think this will really hurt RyanAir long-term. I'm flying with them within the period, and I'm bricking it— I really, really don't like uncertainty when it comes to my travel arrangements! I'm not the adventurous sort, so the prospect of being in a foreign country and having to find accommodation for a night or two on short notice is my idea of a nightmare.

That they have to cancel flights is one thing; there will always be problems, and as a customer I understand that. What I can't understand —or forgive— is that they know they will have to cancel X number of flights a day until X date, but are letting everyone sit uncertainly wondering if it'll affect them or not. Why in god's name are they giving people such short notice for it?! Why can't they decide which flights they're culling now, and give people time to make alternative arrangements?

For their lower prices, I have no problem with things like an ugly website and aircraft interior, horns blaring on arrival, and inflexibility when the customer makes a mistake, but with this it seems like the mistake was booking with them in the first place. Next time I have the option of RyanAir or another carrier, they would want to be a lot lower on price for me to choose them— a lot more than they have been for most of my recent trips. I can't be dealing with this kind of uncertainty for the sake of a hundred odd quid, especially when you could end up out of pocket by a lot more than that at the end of the day.

Powerhouse

Paully D wrote: »

Friday and Saturday cancellations, per The Irish Times.

Many surprises there or are many of the routes what you would expect to go in this situation?
<SNIP>
...............

I wonder if it can be assumed that these same flights will be cancelled for the next number if Fridays and Saturdays too? It's not clear from the IT report whether it's just this weekend if if this list is ongoing.

ANXIOUS

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Smile, you're famous!

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/appalling-treatment-ryanair-passengers-vent-fury-as-airline-to-cancel-up-to-50-flights-a-day-for-next-six-weeks-36136828.html

Oh God, gutter journalism.

JCX BXC

Powerhouse wrote: »

I wonder if it can be assumed that these same flights will be cancelled for the next number if Fridays and Saturdays too? It's not clear from the IT report whether it's just this weekend if if this list is ongoing.

Just this Friday and Saturday.

Loueln

Won't be buying the independent again either.
Just to update, one of the agent finally gave a reason for cancellation, "Muhammad:that is correct complete reservation will be funded Flight has been canceled due to technical reasons as far as we know."
the rest of the transcript makes interesting reading. May redact personal information and post later

lisasimpson

Love the way their live chat id gone offline..i never had a problem with ryanair before but i do now. Id like to make alternative arrangements coz i simply dont have the annual leave if im stranded aboard