Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

1123heavy

the AGM coming up on Thursday should be interesting :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

L1011

I have to wonder what their PR staff think of this. FR built up a reputation - for free - during the many EI strikes for getting you there. They also had a reputation, via the fecking claxon, for OTP.

Their OTP is in shreds for a multitude of reasons; and now they've lost any ability to be seen as reliable. They have their reasons for not announcing cancellations early - namely that they can cancel the cheapest to drop - but it's going to destroy confidence.

Add dissatisfaction at the seating and bag changes and I can see people all across the continent giving up on both the fallacy that FR are already cheapest and also applying value to non-cost elements

Living Off The Splash

I'm flying to Malaga at the end of October. Ryanair have two flights on the day. One in the morning and one in the evening. The morning flight is considerably more expensive than the evening flight. I have purchased the more expensive flight.

In the past I have been in a similar situation with Ryanair. I have purchased the more expensive flight only to find that this was cancelled and merged with the flight that had the cheaper seats.
Not only was I inconvenienced by 5 hours on that occasion I also could have purchased my seat on the later flight much cheaper.
It would be interesting to see if Ryanair are cancelling the flights with the expensive paid for seats or the flights with the less expensive paid for seats.

Next October I have also booked non refundable accommodation. I also have to collect keys to an apartment at a specific time. If my flight is cancelled it will be a mess.

Thankfully I have the return flight with Aer Lingus.

martinsvi

1123heavy wrote: »

well you can lease crew to come with the planes too ... cost is what must be stopping that happening

if you look at all the big ACMI names in Europe they're all busy, I'm not exactly sure what flyDubai are up to these days, but even getting a lease is not that simple this summer season comparing to couple of years ago.

Locker10a

Bob24 wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

That's easy, Ryanair are to blame, their mistreatment of staff is coming back to bite them. Pilot jobs are now plentiful enough that sensible pilots are leaving to work for airlines who value them, pay them fair wages, and provide standard industry benefits.

If it is as clear as this, I assume Ryanair will have little choice but increasing pilots' wages/benefits across the board in the short term?

Yes, and hopefully this will happen. But they are a huge airline and the scale of improvements needed would hit them right where it hurts most, costs

flaneur

They're really getting extremely negative publicity on various news channels.

john boye

One thing I find funny in this, surely the drop in OTP stats has much more to do with factors like pax bringing on too much carry-on luggage and the recent seating changes debacle (I.E: FRs own doing) than any of the reasons given in the original statement?

martinsvi

flaneur wrote: »

They're really getting extremely negative publicity on various news channels.

ah now, remember the time United beat up a passenger or something? Seems like a distant memory and as the time proved - negative publicity has very little to no impact on large corporations

Gamb!t

Paully D wrote: »

Friday and Saturday cancellations, per The Irish Times.

Many surprises there or are many of the routes what you would
..................T1

Italy flights seem to have got hammered.

billymitchell

I assume it a bit late to get travel insurance now, even if my flight hasn't been cancelled?

Sullysark

Locker10a wrote: »

Bob24 wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

That's easy, Ryanair are to blame, their mistreatment of staff is coming back to bite them. Pilot jobs are now plentiful enough that sensible pilots are leaving to work for airlines who value them, pay them fair wages, and provide standard industry benefits.

If it is as clear as this, I assume Ryanair will have little choice but increasing pilots' wages/benefits across the board in the short term?

Yes, and hopefully this will happen. But they are a huge airline and the scale of improvements needed would hit them right where it hurts most, costs

Can you genuinely see that happening? I don't. They will still have numerous cadet pilots applying with CAE. FTE, CTC (L3/ or whatever they call it now)  and CAE are spitting out hundreds of integrated pilots annually now, add in the modular guys who tend to apply to RYR mostly. 
They need to find a way to retain their training captains, and possibly not moving new captains to the far ends of Europe.

jimmycrackcorm

Brennus335 wrote:

No, in fact it's highly illegal. Until released to the line by the training department, an FO under training can only fly with instructor pilots.

There's no such thing as highly illegal. Driving over the speed limit is illegal and can be dangerous. Whats the danger here?

billymitchell wrote:

I assume it a bit late to get travel insurance now, even if my flight hasn't been cancelled?

No. But I'm always amazed at people not getting travel insurance any case.

A Dub in Glasgo

john boye wrote: »

One thing I find funny in this, surely the drop in OTP stats has much more to do with factors like pax bringing on too much carry-on luggage and the recent seating changes debacle (I.E: FRs own doing) than any of the reasons given in the original statement?

The carry on luggage has been in place for 3 years and the change of seat allocation for 4 months and you seem to think that the recent dip in performance is down to the carry on luggage

A Dub in Glasgo

billymitchell wrote: »

I assume it a bit late to get travel insurance now, even if my flight hasn't been cancelled?

No, you shoud get an annual policy as it is very cost effective if you have more than one trip

Gamb!t

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The airline is saying on Saturday 16 September: ”Cancellation notices for flights cancelled up to and including Wednesday 20 September have been sent to affected customers and we will continue to send regular updates."



http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-rights-400000-passengers-cancelled-flights-compensation-hotels-meals-caa-a7949916.html

Yet they only have saturday and sunday listed.

john boye

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

john boye wrote: »

One thing I find funny in this, surely the drop in OTP stats has much more to do with factors like pax bringing on too much carry-on luggage and the recent seating changes debacle (I.E: FRs own doing) than any of the reasons given in the original statement?

The carry on luggage has been in place for 3 years and the change of seat allocation for 4 months and you seem to think that the recent dip in performance is down to the carry on luggage

Yes but people have been steadily bringing more and more on board with them (so much so that FR recently had to lower the allowances) and We've all heard about the mayhem on board that the seating changes caused.

Bob24

Locker10a wrote: »

Bob24 wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

That's easy, Ryanair are to blame, their mistreatment of staff is coming back to bite them. Pilot jobs are now plentiful enough that sensible pilots are leaving to work for airlines who value them, pay them fair wages, and provide standard industry benefits.

If it is as clear as this, I assume Ryanair will have little choice but increasing pilots' wages/benefits across the board in the short term?

Yes, and hopefully this will happen. But they are a huge airline and the scale of improvements needed would hit them right where it hurts most, costs

Yes that was my next point: I guess doing that would significantly increase operational costs meaning either increasing prices for customers or reducing margins.

A Dub in Glasgo

john boye wrote: »

Yes but people have been steadily bringing more and more on board with them (so much so that FR recently had to lower the allowances) and We've all heard about the mayhem on board that the seating changes caused.

Ryanair have allowed a 10kg bag within their size range and a smaller piece for the last 3 years and have not policed it for 3 years. People have not been bringing bigger and bigger bags only recently therefore it is not the cause of the recent dip in performance

The Rape of Lucretia

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

No. But I'm always amazed at people not getting travel insurance any case.

I'm always amazed that people still buy it and even think its the prudent thing to do. Its there with buying insurance for consumer goods for me (was asked did I want to add insurance to a €20 travel iron a couple of months ago - bonkers), and a clever construct but slightly deceitful fabrication of the insurance industry. If you travel a few times a year, carry the risk youself. If you travel frequently, its probably for work - let the business carry it.
Consumer rights are strong enough these days.

A Dub in Glasgo

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I'm always amazed that people still buy it and even think its the prudent thing to do. Its there with buying insurance for consumer goods for me (was asked did I want to add insurance to a €20 travel iron a couple of months ago - bonkers), and a clever construct but slightly deceitful fabrication of the insurance industry. If you travel a few times a year, carry the risk youself. If you travel frequently, its probably for work - let the business carry it.
Consumer rights are strong enough these days.

Consumer rights will cover for the traffic jam to the airport or the death of a close relative or the damage to your luggage?.... never knew that!

Annual insurance for a family of 4 (for me) costs £50, convince me why consumer rights will pay out

Locker10a

Sullysark wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Bob24 wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

That's easy, Ryanair are to blame, their mistreatment of staff is coming back to bite them. Pilot jobs are now plentiful enough that sensible pilots are leaving to work for airlines who value them, pay them fair wages, and provide standard industry benefits.

If it is as clear as this, I assume Ryanair will have little choice but increasing pilots' wages/benefits across the board in the short term?

Yes, and hopefully this will happen. But they are a huge airline and the scale of improvements needed would hit them right where it hurts most, costs

Can you genuinely see that happening? I don't. They will still have numerous cadet pilots applying with CAE. FTE, CTC (L3/ or whatever they call it now)  and CAE are spitting out hundreds of integrated pilots annually now, add in the modular guys who tend to apply to RYR mostly. 
They need to find a way to retain their training captains, and possibly not moving new captains to the far ends of Europe.

Every flight needs a Captain. and so if retaining Captains is whats necessary here then yes it will be costly and possibly cost them some of the current "efficiencies" that are driving current captains away, like being TOLD what base you'll get, and being moved to/from bases when ever it suits the company.  The biggest problem for Ryanair here is that pilots are human, they have lives and families, and these things don't line up with the "ryanair way" of doing business.  Unfortunately for Ryanair and their passengers, there are other and better options for these pilots.

Locker10a

martinsvi wrote: »

flaneur wrote: »

They're really getting extremely negative publicity on various news channels.

ah now, remember the time United beat up a passenger or something? Seems like a distant memory and as the time proved - negative publicity has very little to no impact on large corporations

This is so true! Remember the strikes that affected BA for months a few years ago! Yet they are back flying all those high yielding business travellers etc. how quickly people forget.  
In a years time this will be forgotten by the public, however I hope it has a positive impact on the conditions of employment Ryanair off their employees.

john boye

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Ryanair have allowed a 10kg bag within their size range and a smaller piece for the last 3 years and have not policed it for 3 years. People have not been bringing bigger and bigger bags only recently therefore it is not the cause of the recent dip in performance

Fair enough. But when the recent cabin bag changes were announced the general consensus in the thread on it here was that it would speed up boarding greatly. That would imply to me that it was part of the drop in OTP.

Gamb!t

Never had an issue with Ryan Air as you get what you pay for with cheap fares but not a fan of their latest stunt.I'm currently on holiday and hope I don't get caught up in this fiasco next weekend,I have another 2 flights booked with them during the 6 week cull so more grief to worry about.
Wont be booking with them anymore after this,rather pay the extra fare or connecting flights from now on.

Silverbling

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

they will now it was just on the RTE news, EU compensation, hotel accommodation and they are required to pay for your flight on a rival airline

ted1

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

No. But I'm always amazed at people not getting travel insurance any case.

I'm always amazed that people still buy it and even think its the prudent thing to do. Its there with buying insurance for consumer goods for me (was asked did I want to add insurance to a €20 travel iron a couple of months ago - bonkers), and a clever construct but slightly deceitful fabrication of the insurance industry. If you travel a few times a year, carry the risk youself. If you travel frequently, its probably for work - let the business carry it.
Consumer rights are strong enough these days.

I broke my leg in a Greek island some years back. My 7 euro Ryanair insurance saved me 30k. It's not just for cancellations and missed flights

Geri1412

Does anyone know if the flights that are cancelled are flights that are already booked, or is it if you book now to travel in 2 weeks time, that that flight could also be cancelled? Also, seems like there are no cancellations from Cork, so it looks like a safe bet, can't find any info on Ryanairs site regardless..

Locker10a

Geri1412 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the flights that are cancelled are flights that are already booked, or is it if you book now to travel in 2 weeks time, that that flight could also be cancelled?  Also, seems like there are no cancellations from Cork, so it looks like a safe bet, can't find any info on Ryanairs site regardless..

As of now they seem to be cancelling flights in a 48 hours window so no-one knows really. I highly doubt they will constantly cancel the same routes day in day out so id say no route is safe. However its most likely they will cancel on routes that have multiple departures per day, as its then easier to clear the back-log.

JCX BXC

Locker10a wrote: »

However its most likely they will cancel on routes that have multiple departures per day, as its then easier to clear the back-log.

Routes like Dublin - Hahn(4pw), Santander (2pw) and Nantes (4pw) have been cancelled for tomorrow

Locker10a

JCX BXC wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

However its most likely they will cancel on routes that have multiple departures per day, as its then easier to clear the back-log.

Routes like Dublin - Hahn(4pw), Santander (2pw) and Nantes (4pw) have been cancelled for tomorrow

Well in that case they are being less tactful than I thought. could be a case of smaller bases having a bigger crewing issue

duskyjoe

https://youtu.be/7-tRrdJCo3w

1123heavy

https://www.facebook.com/groups/130092747727926/

well a facebook group has now been set up by disgruntled pax

For those with access to it, I find it hilarious that a person messaged norwegian and asked them if they are gonna start flying to ireland as an alternative to ryanair and even got a response from norwegian and posted a screenshot of the message lol

JCX BXC

For anyone who wants some information, Irish Examiner have a fairly good standard article (for them).

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/ryanair-urges-passengers-to-check-e-mails-as-customers-vent-fury-over-flight-cancellations-806209.html

It also details the possible compensation payable if your flight is cancelled.

L1011

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I'm always amazed that people still buy it and even think its the prudent thing to do. Its there with buying insurance for consumer goods for me (was asked did I want to add insurance to a €20 travel iron a couple of months ago - bonkers), and a clever construct but slightly deceitful fabrication of the insurance industry. If you travel a few times a year, carry the risk youself. If you travel frequently, its probably for work - let the business carry it.
Consumer rights are strong enough these days.

I've done 40 legs a year for personal flights some years - gigs and football in the UK plus city breaks across Europe and a sibling living in the states for a while. There are times that personal mulitrip insurance is incredibly sensible.

I get it with my credit card, effectively the annual fee for the the card over and above stamp duty pays for it and some basic concierge service to go with it. Before upgrading to a tosser grade card I used to have multitrip.com cover. Never had to call on it, but my parents did when my grandfather died - expensive flights and hotels refunded entirely.

Brennus335

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There's no such thing as highly illegal. Driving over the speed limit is illegal and can be dangerous. Whats the danger here?

No need for the sarcy attitude.
I was attempting to educate your ignorance, but you obviously are a lost cause.

mel.b

Does anyone know when FR will be making public the list of cancellations for Tues. Nothing is on their website yet. I have a flight BVA-DUB that was booked with Sweete through a promotion. They have taken care of everything - i haven't had a single email from FR about the flight (even the standard ones like i received on Sat about a flight i have in Dec). Therefore i presume any notification will go to Sweete. I'd hope they are on the ball and would let me know ASAP but i'd rather double check myself.

plodder

martinsvi wrote: »

ah now, remember the time United beat up a passenger or something? Seems like a distant memory and as the time proved - negative publicity has very little to no impact on large corporations

True. They'll weather it, but there will be a short term hit on new bookings without a doubt, depending on how well or badly they handle it from here. It was gratifying that they held their hands up and admitted they screwed up, rather than blaming the IAA or someone else in the usual fashion.

shar01

Is it possible to say (as a general rule of thumb) that they're cancelling flights under 1500km?

Apologies if this has been asked and answered.

TheBeach

When will flights they are canceling tomorrow (Monday 18 th) be announced I wonder? Abroad with two kids here.

Living Off The Splash

shar01 wrote: »

Is it possible to say (as a general rule of thumb) that they're cancelling flights under 1500km?

Apologies if this has been asked and answered.

Dublin to Santander is over 2000km's so who knows? Maybe it's the flights with the least amount of profit in them?

Van.Bosch

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

Dublin to Santander is over 2000km's so who knows? Maybe it's the flights with the least amount of profit in them?

I'd say it's the flights with the fewest pax on them, when both segments are considered.

Collie D

TheBeach wrote: »

When will flights they are canceling tomorrow (Monday 18 th) be announced I wonder? Abroad with two kids here.

They say they have sent emails for all flights cancelled up to Wednesday so check your mail. If nothing you SHOULD be OK.

I don't understand why they don't just make the decision now on which flights will be cancelled for the whole period.

Noxegon

That would be useful. I'm supposed to fly with them next weekend, and I would like to book alternative travel now if I'm going to need it.

dixiefly

Collie D wrote: »

They say they have sent emails for all flights cancelled up to Wednesday so check your mail. If nothing you SHOULD be OK.

I don't understand why they don't just make the decision now on which flights will be cancelled for the whole period.

I think its because they may not know the full extent of their issues.

I wonder is this issue an indicator of a much bigger problem and could it be a case study for looking into current or developing management practices. I am not close to it but my perception is that Ryanair have achieved their success with a volume / efficiency model that is assisted / developed using complex computer modelling and predictive analytics. These, of their nature, are built on many assumptions and, if some of those assumptions turn out to be false then the models will lose accuracy and, if there is no slack built in, problems can arise.

For instance, if the models were based on an attrition rate for pilots of, say 2%, and it turned out to be 12% then that would have a big effect if there was no slack in the model (i.e. pilots working long / max hours already).

billie1b

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I'd say it's the flights with the fewest pax on them, when both segments are considered.

Thats what we were thinking too but then when we had a look at the book loads of canx flights so far the loads were all between 170-189 and over booked flights also.

stevek93

My first holiday in 14 years I am set to departure 1st October and this happens, I booked with another vendor in case of cancellations. Is it possible to get a refund now?

mr.anonymous

Would the cancellations not better be decided by the refunds and compensation due?
Is it becoming apparent that's it certain bases that are out of legal crews?

JCX BXC

TheBeach wrote: »

When will flights they are canceling tomorrow (Monday 18 th) be announced I wonder? Abroad with two kids here.

They've cancelled all flights until Wednesday (20th), If you haven't got an email, you're fine.

JCX BXC

Van.Bosch wrote: »

I'd say it's the flights with the fewest pax on them, when both segments are considered.

I'd say it's yield more than PAX, eg Newcastle has been cancelled, and that flights always packed to the rims, however on mainly €9.99 fares!

Also it appears we're seeing which bases have staff shortages and which don't. Appears Shannon and Cork haven't had any issues yet.

JCX BXC

mel.b wrote: »

Does anyone know when FR will be making public the list of cancellations for Tues. Nothing is on their website yet. I have a flight BVA-DUB that was booked with Sweete through a promotion. They have taken care of everything - i haven't had a single email from FR about the flight (even the standard ones like i received on Sat about a flight i have in Dec). Therefore i presume any notification will go to Sweete. I'd hope they are on the ball and would let me know ASAP but i'd rather double check myself.

Again, they've cancelled flights until Wednesday, if you don't have an email, chances are your flights going ahead! Although, did you get a confirmation email? You could have put the email in wrong.

It's not like this information is secretly held, Ryanair are trying to emphasize this!