2018 Leaf

Dardania · 06-09-2017 10:45AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

thierry14 wrote: »

It still won't do Limerick to Dublin @ 120kmh motorway speed?

That's another thing that is up in the air at the minute.

How much does motorway speed kill the range. In the current Leaf it's comically bad. In the Ioniq it's much better. Not sure the Zoe can even reach motorway speed lol.

I've read that the cd for the new Leaf is down from .29 to .27 but that's still a good bit off the Ioniq with .24.

There seems to be some dispute on this figure. Some of the specs I found online this morning say 0.28 for the new leaf, which also matches the older Leaf? Seems like a missed opportunity to address this...

unkel · 06-09-2017 10:45AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets face it , a 40 Kwh EV isn't going to swing it for the majority of people living on this Island.

Because the majority have an irrational feeling that they need more range? That they will rarely use?

Last time I was filling up at a petrol station (quite some time ago

), I still saw most people putting in €20 worth of fuel. That's good for at most 300km in a very frugal diesel. About the same "range" as the new Leaf. And enough to do the average car in Ireland for almost a week without another fill up

The strategy of this government is very poor. There's no information / education campaigns. They give everyone a tasty €10k subsidy plus free home charger, but this is inefficient use of funds. What's needed is a massive campaign, free parking, free charging, free motor tax, free tolls, free bus lane use all nationwide (I don't agree with some of this, but we need a major boost to get people talking). The only thing money needs spending on is a lot more FCP, probably need to spend 10 million (which is a drop in the ocean in the budget)

And of course (the threat of) major stick for diesel cars. Up everything by a bit, say 10% per year: parking charges, tolls, motor tax, excise duty, VRT)

Then see how fast people will change to EV. Make the diesel owners jealous. The same as the Joneses used to be jealous of their neighbour when they bought a brand new car and their own car was already old. One year old. Make 'em jealous and see how quick people will change to EV

bk · 06-09-2017 10:47AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

But Joe Public will see an EV with 150 miles range rather than the current 100ish and will be happy to take the plunge.

Why will they? I don't get it.

The Zoe is already out and has more range then this and the Ioniq is already out and has just slightly less range, but bigger car. I don't see why this Leaf will change much?

Less EV looks help, but the range certainly isn't anything to get excited about. And I say this as one of those people who currently doesn't own an EV, but is looking and interested.

Extra options are always welcome, but I just don't see why this will get Joe Public interested in EV's anymore then the Zoe/Ioniq are already doing.

06-09-2017 10:48AM

Government are not going to make diesel driving any more difficult any time soon.

Everyone wants more range whatever their daily needs are for the road trip 250 odd kms isn't enough, if you had 150+ Kw charging then perhaps but that's not likely for 5 years at least.

Dardania · 06-09-2017 10:50AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

thierry14 wrote: »

It still won't do Limerick to Dublin @ 120kmh motorway speed?

That's another thing that is up in the air at the minute.

How much does motorway speed kill the range. In the current Leaf it's comically bad. In the Ioniq it's much better. Not sure the Zoe can even reach motorway speed lol.

I've read that the cd for the new Leaf is down from .29 to .27 but that's still a good bit off the Ioniq with .24.

There seems to be some dispute on this figure. Some of the specs I found online this morning say 0.28 for the new leaf, which also matches the older Leaf? Seems like a missed opportunity to address this...

unkel · 06-09-2017 10:50AM

Dardania wrote: »

There seems to be some dispute on this figure. Some of the specs I found online this morning say 0.28 for the new leaf, which also matches the older Leaf? Seems like a missed opportunity to address this...

Old Leaf was 0.32, new one is 0.28. Massive improvement there, but it really should have been 0.24-0.26

Top speed limited to 90mph / 144km/h is the exact same as the old Leaf. That would have been too slow for me, and very possibly a deal breaker.

06-09-2017 10:53AM

The like of propilot are not enough to encourage anyone to buy this car. Most people are not interested in the gadgets , my Partner is one, she thinks electric windows , AC are enough and she's not alone there, streaming audio would be a major upgrade for her, she's simply not in the slightest bit interested in cars getting her into EV will be a challenge.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 10:53AM

bk wrote: »

Why will they? I don't get it.

The Zoe is already out and has more range then this and the Ioniq is already out and has just slightly less range, but bigger car. I don't see why this Leaf will change much?

The Zoe is too small, and it's a Renault.

The Ioniq isn't that much bigger than the Leaf and has quite a bit less range, about 120 miles at best?

The Leaf has a reputation as the main player in current electrics. That reputation combined with the size to suit nearly everyone and 150 miles of range means that I think the average Joe will snap it up.

Take someone who has considered EV but has been put off by the lack of range, offer the option of a small Renault with 170 miles, a mid size Hyundai with 120 or a mid size Nissan with 150 and what do you think they'll choose?

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 10:56AM

unkel wrote: »

Old Leaf was 0.32, new one is 0.28. Massive improvement there, but it really should have been 0.24-0.26

What kind of impact would you guess that will have on motorway driving speed then?

Despite all my moaning about this new Leaf I suspect that it will be my most likely option when I change for a few reasons.

I want to be able to drive to Dublin from Donegal without stopping. Currently I have to stop 3 times in my 24kwh.

huggs2 · 06-09-2017 10:56AM

https://www.youtube.com/nissan

I will wait for the 60KWh and hopefully they will offer 4k for my old car as scrappage.

thierry14 · 06-09-2017 11:01AM

unkel wrote: »

Old Leaf was 0.32, new one is 0.28. Massive improvement there, but it really should have been 0.24-0.26

Top speed limited to 90mph / 144km/h is the exact same as the old Leaf. That would have been too slow for me, and very possibly a deal breaker.

It's a deal breaker for me definitely

I am used to cruising 140kmh in a diesel for years, most are

What a waste of 150bhp

Model 3 has top speed of over 200kmh

That's perfect

unkel · 06-09-2017 11:23AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

What kind of impact would you guess that will have on motorway driving speed then?

Despite all my moaning about this new Leaf I suspect that it will be my most likely option when I change for a few reasons.

I want to be able to drive to Dublin from Donegal without stopping. Currently I have to stop 3 times in my 24kwh.

How far is your trip? How much of it is 120km/h?

thierry14 wrote: »

It's a deal breaker for me definitely

I am used to cruising 140kmh in a diesel for years

You can still do that in the new Leaf! But in all EVs, range decreases considerably when you increase speed. And with 0.28, this effect will be a lot worse in the new Leaf than it is in Ioniq. I'd say at 140km/h GPS speed, the range of the new Leaf is probably a bit less than Ioniq. Or maybe about the same.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 11:35AM

80sDiesel wrote:

Wont folks just wait for the Leaf 60 since it is confirmed. ( and not bother with the Leaf 40).

I'd expect many current EV owners will be waiting for the 60kWh. But current owners are a minority. EVs are a rapidly growing market and the new Leaf is great value at it's price point.

thierry14 wrote:

Who would buy one of them over a model 3

They might as well not bother with 60kw

Vastly inferior in every way, that's just against a Chevy Bolt

Both the Model 3 and Ampera-e (if it ever reaches RHD markets with PSAs 50kWh on the way) are expected to have base prices â‚¬10-15k above the new Leaf.

DrPhilG wrote:

Plus the 60kwh is still not solid. No release date or specs.

Press release associated with the launch states "second half of 2018". InsideEVs interviews during their previously embargoed preview in Japan stated 60kWh.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 11:36AM

Deleted User wrote:

I think in the U.S at least Nissan could have a big problem , the battery still has 0 form of cooling.

Actually... AFAIK it will cool the pack using Freon from the AC like the eNV200 does.

06-09-2017 11:38AM

I'm not sure a 90 Mph limit would deter me, it will kill range and 2 it's above what I'd normally drive anyway.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 11:40AM

80sDiesel wrote:

Which will arrive in Ireland first ? The Leaf 60kw or the Tesla 3 ?

Leaf 60kWh. And until mid 2019 I'd expect it to be easier to get a Leaf than a Model 3. After that Tesla's battery manufacturing scale will enable much greater production than Nissan/LG and they'll have munched through the preorder list.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 11:40AM

unkel wrote: »

How far is your trip?

My house to Dublin is 155 miles.

unkel wrote: »

How much of it is 120km/h?

Officially, only about 50 miles.

bk · 06-09-2017 11:42AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

The Ioniq isn't that much bigger than the Leaf and has quite a bit less range, about 120 miles at best?

It Is EPA range of 200km for the Ioniq, 240km for the new Leaf

But remember, that includes city and mixed driving. Where the Ioniq excels is motorway driving at motorway speeds, thanks to it's low drag. I suspect due to it's worse cd, the new Leaf will only perform about the same as the current 28 Ioniq on motorways, maybe even a little worse.

And it is really at motorway speeds that we need to see EV range improving at. No one really cares too much about range pottering around a city, that is already more then fine. It is range for the weekend trip where EV's are poor.

And we are all expecting a 40kw upgraded Ioniq in the next 6 months or so. That should give you 280km's, enough to get to Cork without stopping. So why would you buy this Leaf now with an upgraded Ioniq just around the corner?

DrPhilG wrote: »

The Leaf has a reputation as the main player in current electrics. That reputation combined with the size to suit nearly everyone and 150 miles of range means that I think the average Joe will snap it up.

Ah, come on, joe public knows almost nothing about EV's or Nissans history with them, that will have zero impact on them.

I honestly don't see why this will make any impact with Joe Public beyond what the Ioniq already enjoys.

DrPhilG wrote: »

Take someone who has considered EV but has been put off by the lack of range, offer the option of a small Renault with 170 miles, a mid size Hyundai with 120 or a mid size Nissan with 150 and what do you think they'll choose?

That is exactly me. Interested in EV's but the current options (excluding Tesla obviously) don't have enough range for me.

So I'll answer the question for you: Non of the above.

Neither the current Ioniq or this new Leaf have enough range to get you to Cork without stopping. Both require one stop, so practically there is no difference between the two of them.

So they are both much the same and the new Leaf doesn't really change much.

You really need to be getting closer to 300km to really change anything. Once you can get from Dublin to any city in Ireland without stopping and having to rely on the poor FCP infrastructure, then you will have the car that will get Joe Public excited. This isn't it.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 11:46AM

However once a year I drive to Cork and back. Did it once on my 24kWh, never again.

That's a 326 mile trip with about 200 miles motorway. I'd love to do it in 2 stops. With 150 miles range that's possible, but not if motorway speed kills me.

Home to Belfast and back is 150 miles with 50 of it motorway and that's a trip I make quite often.

ELM327 · 06-09-2017 11:47AM

bk wrote: »

You really need to be getting closer to 300km to really change anything. Once you can get from Dublin to any city in Ireland without stopping and having to rely on the poor FCP infrastructure, then you will have the car that will get Joe Public excited. This isn't it.

Yes. I agree 110% with this.
People will not change behaviours the cars (or any other product) needs to adapt to people's needs. We don't pay more for less.

Currently in my 24kWh leaf I drive at motorway speeds calculating the range the whole way. I'm satisfied with that as I'm an early adapter, love the tech, and it saves me a wad of cash every month. But others don't want that. I am an outlier as I do most months 4k km and more pretty much 100% EV. We do have a backup ICE but it rarely gets used, I would say 300km in the last 3 months.
But EV will not take over until you can drive from Dublin to Cork/Galway/Belfast/Gweedore without having to plan your trip or compromise driving speed.

It's coming, and the Ioniq is the closest car to that yet, but we are still some way off.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 11:50AM

bk wrote: »

And we are all expecting a 40kw upgraded Ioniq in the next 6 months or so. That should give you 280km's, enough to get to Cork without stopping. So why would you buy this Leaf now with an upgraded Ioniq just around the corner?

Spoke to a clued in Hyundai dealer on Facebook today, he is not expecting the longer range Ioniq to land until late 2018 for a 2019 delivery.

I'm not buying anything new or now. I'll be buying something 1 year old. My aim was to change in late 2018 but that will only give me the Leaf 2 as an option.

My wife can't cope without 360 parking cameras which makes the Ioniq a non starter too sadly. Plus Ioniq 2 second hand won't be available until late 2019 which is later than I want to wait. By then my current car will be out of warranty and quite possibly down a bar which makes it much harder to shift.

bk · 06-09-2017 11:56AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

Spoke to a clued in Hyundai dealer on Facebook today, he is not expecting the longer range Ioniq to land until late 2018 for a 2019 delivery.

I wouldn't take any notice at all to what dealers tell you!

Firstly they almost never know what is happening at corporate level and secondly they just want to shift what they currently have and will always try and put you off on waiting for new upcoming models for obvious reasons.

Anyway, not relevant to my main point which is at motorway speeds I don't expect this new leaf to do much better then the current Ioniq. And it will still require one stop going to most of the cities in Ireland, so not really bringing much new to the table IMO.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 11:56AM

unkel wrote:

Top speed limited to 90mph / 144km/h is the exact same as the old Leaf. That would have been too slow for me, and very possibly a deal breaker.

The Leaf's limiter varies by market. It's 160km/h in the Irish & UK market.

Falcon L · 06-09-2017 11:56AM

Dilemma time!

The Leaf II is less than I had hoped for, if I'm honest. But it does take a bit of the shine off the Ioniq.

When you spec up a Leaf to Ioniq levels, I suspect there will be little in it, price wise.

ELM327 · 06-09-2017 12:00PM

cros13 wrote: »

The Leaf's limiter varies by market. It's 160km/h in the Irish & UK market.

160km/h indicated.
Which, when you remove 10% is 144km/h, or the real speed.

cros13 · 06-09-2017 12:04PM

bk wrote:

And we are all expecting a 40kw upgraded Ioniq in the next 6 months or so. That should give you 280km's, enough to get to Cork without stopping. So why would you buy this Leaf now with an upgraded Ioniq just around the corner?

That upgraded Ioniq is dependent on battery supply shared with the Hyundai Kona EV. It's very probable that any battery supply issue will result in the Ioniq being pushed back giving preference for the Kona.

unkel · 06-09-2017 12:18PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

My house to Dublin is 155 miles.

Yeah that is still a problem in anything except the Teslas. Even with very careful driving at no more than 90km/h, it is still a stretch in Ioniq, Zoe 41 or the new Leaf. Not something you could rely on, even in perfect circumstances.

Would you not be happy enough to go from 3 stops to 1 stop though? All those cars can do that at the speed limits. And maybe no stops in your 60kWh car that you will get after your next car in a few years time?

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 12:32PM

bk wrote: »

I wouldn't take any notice at all to what dealers tell you!

I generally don't, but this is coming from a Hyundai dealer who joined the EV owners page to educate himself because Hyundai were failing to do so!

I don't doubt his information and I certainly don't think he's just spoofing to try and sell cars. I asked him for info on the next Hyundai because I was looking for an escape route from Leaf 2 so his best move would have been to BS me and tell me it was just around the corner rather than telling me it's going to be later rather than sooner.

DrPhilG · 06-09-2017 12:33PM

unkel wrote: »

Would you not be happy enough to go from 3 stops to 1 stop though? All those cars can do that at the speed limits. And maybe no stops in your 60kWh car that you will get after your next car in a few years time?

I would be happy, but I had hoped that my next car would be a long term one, the 40kwh Leaf will just be a stop gap which is not as financially beneficial.

thierry14 · 06-09-2017 12:41PM

ELM327 wrote: »

160km/h indicated.
Which, when you remove 10% is 144km/h, or the real speed.

160 indicated isnt too bad then

Thought limit was 144 on speedo itself

How would ir compare to 150bhp tdi in acceleration?

Feep better/ more similar to a 170bhp tdi Golf etc when doing 80 - 120, 50 - 100 etc

I3 I heard feels like a 200bhp Gti in terms of acceleration, even though it only has 170bhp

2018 Leaf

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